Realistic pistols damage

[creeperbane 26]

I think that the pistols are under-powered. I don't know what the damage will be in the standalone but 899 blood is pathetic for a 9mm.  9mm are used in the military and police forces because they can fire fast have low recoil and decent damage.  They are known to kill someone in 5-6 shots sometimes less, 3-4 shots and the person will almost certainly die of his wounds later.  .45's have extremely high power and are very loud. They were used in world war II because they could effectively kill a crazed enemy in 1-2 shots (no offense to Germans or Japanese intended) but these damages need to be revamped.

Edited September 16, 2013 by creeperbane

[Skat3rat 1633]

I agree and at one point in DayZ, the pistols were actually powerful.  However arma 2 did a patch and they weakened the weapons.  I don't get why they did and I wish they would make the pistols powerful again.

[beatSTV 631]

this has been brought up so much mate, if you adjusted the damage you'd have to adjust the spawn rate/ not allow you to spawn with a pistol or PvP would go crazy i remember when you could shoot a zombie in the chest with a 45 and they would drop 

Edited September 16, 2013 by beatSTV

[Korsbaek 1778]

I agree.

 

The pistols here are even worse than in Call of Duty :D

[rossums 2190]

I agree they need buffed but there is a fine line between realistic damage and fun which is quite important and difficult to find.

[Bludy 324]

i'd keep tihs damage for zombies: it seems correct someway to me to have to put some more shot in the crazed guy's chest to bring him down, i'd like to see them make mush more damage to players though..and i'm generally friendly so not interested in quick profit kills in cherno..just wanna feel safe with a gun, that what they are supposed to make you feel.

[mick17 93]

Pistols don't kill in a set number of shots in real life... heck nothing does. It's all about shot placement my friend. A 9mm can kill just as fast as a .50 BMG. The .50 obviously has a much larger margin for error.

[Dr.Duff 211]

1 shot in the head and you're dead. As much as I agree, if you're firiing a pistol into the chest of a zed, you need to learn to aim.

[leviski 2152]

#inb4GewsMasterRace

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

They're probably trying to keep a gap between guns so that having a better gun will actually yield a better combat edge over your opponent... If it was ABSOLUTE realism, any bullet would more than likely drop and immobilize someone with a single hit.

[enforcer1975 1111]

I think that the pistols are under-powered.

 

ORLY...but i don't think that is still news...

 

I agree they need buffed but there is a fine line between realistic damage and fun which is quite important and difficult to find.

 

Not the weapons need the buff...the hitpoints system was replaced by the blood system which gave a player 3x the "hitpoints" the models actually had. That's is the one fault in DayZ but afaik they already adressed that by splitting blood into health, hunger and hitpoints.

 

1 shot in the head and you're dead. As much as I agree, if you're firiing a pistol into the chest of a zed, you need to learn to aim.

 

Not really there are enough contemporary witnesses that prove otherwise. A couple miss parts of their skull or even the brain. In my brother in laws fathers case who served as a german tanker in WW2 he got hit just above the frontal bone it more or less grazed him but left a dent as deep as an average finger is in diameter. So in your terms he should be dead...

[m.w. vindicator 880]

From another topic, my post

 

 

This has been discussed 2,439,482 times.  

 

 

 

 

We can all agree that the current mod is unrealistic and unauthentic in the category of damage/ballistics.  

 

 Personally I really don't like the idea of hit points.  In arma 2 people have hit points I believe.   

 

 

Damage should be modular.  As in, if shot in the head, the brain "module" and the character will suffer death as a consequence.  If shot in the upper chest the player's lungs module or heart module will be damaged/destroyed.  If shot in the lower chest, a players "guts" module will take damage.  legs and arms will be modules too.  Death occurs when modules take a critical life ending damage.  If the heart is destroyed death occurs in a few seconds.  If a leg or arm module is completely destroyed (blown off) catastrophic bleeding will occur causing the player to go unconscious and bleed out in roughly 30 seconds.  

 

If a players lungs are totally destroyed (rifle round in the upper chest) death will be quick.  If damaged (lets say by a pistol round) death will not come instantly but the person will die soon from internal and external bleeding and suffocation.  

 

 

One thing that probably shouldn't be added is very slow inevitable deaths because that isn't fun.  Lets say you get shot in the gut by a Makarov.  The round tears up your intestines, stomach, and liver.  You are going to die.  IRL death might come after several hours or days.  Ingame this would be too realistic and the player should die much quicker so they could restart with a new character and begin having more fun.  Instead of hours maybe you might die in five minutes or so.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vindicator's percentages of lethality

 

NOTE: I am not an expert and this is MY (likely worthless) opinion.  

 

The scenario is that you are standing 15m away from someone who is looking away from you.  he is a bandit so you decide to kill him. He has no armor.  You have a *insert weapon*

 

 

Makarov:  

 

            caliber: 9x18mm

 

you shoot him in the head once.

 

% chance of  death: 100%  (from) brain module destroyed, catastrophic bleeding.

 

you shoot him in the upper chest once.

 

% chance of death: 33% (from) heart destroyed, catastrophic hemorrhaging

% chance of survival:   66% could have damaged lung.  Will suffer bleeding.  If bleeding isn't stopped death will likely occur in 20 mins. 

 

shoot him twice.

 

% chance of death: 66% (from) one hit to the lung and one hit to the heart causing heart destroyed and catastrophic hemorrhaging OR two hits to the lungs causing damage and then destruction of the lungs causing death.  

%chance of survival 33%:  could have damaged lung.  Will suffer heavy bleeding.  If bleeding isn't stopped death will likely occur in less than 5 mins.  

 

shoot him three times.

%chance of death: 99%  (from) heart destroyed by a bullet OR  Lungs destroyed by (at least) two bullets OR lungs damaged by one buller and critical bleeding from the other two bullets.  

%chance of survival 1% but could have damaged lung.  Will suffer critical bleeding.  Death likely in 1 min if no treatment received to stop bleeding. 

 

 

You shoot him in the lower chest

 

Once.

 

Chance of death:  25% (from) guts destroyed.

Chance of survival 75%  but could have damaged guts. Will suffer bleeding and death will likely occur in 20 mins if not stopped.

 

Twice. 

 

chance of death: 50% (from) guts destroyed.

Chance of survival: 50%.  could have damaged guts.  Will suffer heavy bleeding and death will likely occur in 10-15mins if not stopped. 

 

Three times

Chance of death:75% (from) guts destroyed

Chance of survival: 25% could have damaged guts and will suffer severe bleeding and death will come in 5 mins if not stopped.  

 

Four times:

Chance of death: 100% ( you know why by this point)

 

You shoot him in the legs (right, left or both)

 

Once

Chance of death: 0% but will suffer bleeding. 25mins till death if not stopped

Twice

0% but will suffer heavy bleeding.  15-20mins till death

Three times

chance of death: 30% (from) leg module destroyed. and catastrophic bleeding.

if survives: will suffer severe bleeding and will die in about 5-10 mins if bleeding doesn't stop.

Four times.  

60% of death from destroyed leg module.

Critical Bleeding and death in a few minutes if not stopped. 

Five times.  

90% chance of death.  Rest same as above.

Six shots to the leg will cause death no matter what in a matter of seconds.  

 

Being shot in the arms would behave like being shot in the legs but less durable.  5 shots to the arms would be fatal very quickly.

 

 

 

 

That is how the Makarov and other 9x18mm weapons should work IMO.

 

 

 

 

9x19 would behave similarly but slightly more lethal (approx. 10-20% more lethal depending on hit locations)

 

.45 ACP/11.43x23 would behave similarly but more lethal (approx. 30-50% more lethal depeding once again on locations.)

 

5.56 and 5.45  would have 50%-100% more lethality.  A single center of mass shot will severely maim and will cause death most of the time but surviving is possible.

 

7.62x39 would have maybe around 50%-150% more lethality. Same as above for the most part.  Ballistics can be weird here though.  Some times intermediate caliber rifle rounds over penetrate causing less damage.

 

7.62x51 and 7.62x54 would have 75%-200% more lethality.  Shots in the arms and legs could be survivable (with much bleeding    ^_^ ) but good luck with chest shots.  Survival would be quite rare.

 

 

Anything above that caliber would be blowing legs and arms off pretty frequently.  .338 Lapua would be maul folks.

 

 

 

12 guage would be very lethal 15m.   High chance of damaging many modules and causing tons of bleeding.  

 

 

Pistols would loose a lot of effectiveness past 50m. Shotgun pellets would have similar range.

 

SMGs would loose effectiveness between 75m-200m depeding greatly on the model and caliber.  

 

Intermediate calibers could reach out and touch people out to around 250m-300m

 

Rifles would still do serious harm well over 500m.  1000m would be a stretch.  (That guy on Electro Hill with a Mosin-Nagant or a Mauser 98 would be deadly.  But why is here wasting his limited ammo?  He won't even be able to get good gear b/c it'll be torn up) .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay there is my opinion.  Feel free to critique it.  Also if someone wants to make there own Percentage charts that would be very cool!    B)

[creeperbane 26]

Pistols don't kill in a set number of shots in real life... heck nothing does. It's all about shot placement my friend. A 9mm can kill just as fast as a .50 BMG. The .50 obviously has a much larger margin for error.

All rounds fired into the chest.

[creeperbane 26]

 

From another topic, my post

 

 

This has been discussed 2,439,482 times.  

 

 

 

 

We can all agree that the current mod is unrealistic and unauthentic in the category of damage/ballistics.  

 

 Personally I really don't like the idea of hit points.  In arma 2 people have hit points I believe.   

 

 

Damage should be modular.  As in, if shot in the head, the brain "module" and the character will suffer death as a consequence.  If shot in the upper chest the player's lungs module or heart module will be damaged/destroyed.  If shot in the lower chest, a players "guts" module will take damage.  legs and arms will be modules too.  Death occurs when modules take a critical life ending damage.  If the heart is destroyed death occurs in a few seconds.  If a leg or arm module is completely destroyed (blown off) catastrophic bleeding will occur causing the player to go unconscious and bleed out in roughly 30 seconds.  

 

If a players lungs are totally destroyed (rifle round in the upper chest) death will be quick.  If damaged (lets say by a pistol round) death will not come instantly but the person will die soon from internal and external bleeding and suffocation.  

 

 

One thing that probably shouldn't be added is very slow inevitable deaths because that isn't fun.  Lets say you get shot in the gut by a Makarov.  The round tears up your intestines, stomach, and liver.  You are going to die.  IRL death might come after several hours or days.  Ingame this would be too realistic and the player should die much quicker so they could restart with a new character and begin having more fun.  Instead of hours maybe you might die in five minutes or so.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vindicator's percentages of lethality

 

NOTE: I am not an expert and this is MY (likely worthless) opinion.  

 

The scenario is that you are standing 15m away from someone who is looking away from you.  he is a bandit so you decide to kill him. He has no armor.  You have a *insert weapon*

 

 

Makarov:  

 

            caliber: 9x18mm

 

you shoot him in the head once.

 

% chance of  death: 100%  (from) brain module destroyed, catastrophic bleeding.

 

you shoot him in the upper chest once.

 

% chance of death: 33% (from) heart destroyed, catastrophic hemorrhaging

% chance of survival:   66% could have damaged lung.  Will suffer bleeding.  If bleeding isn't stopped death will likely occur in 20 mins. 

 

shoot him twice.

 

% chance of death: 66% (from) one hit to the lung and one hit to the heart causing heart destroyed and catastrophic hemorrhaging OR two hits to the lungs causing damage and then destruction of the lungs causing death.  

%chance of survival 33%:  could have damaged lung.  Will suffer heavy bleeding.  If bleeding isn't stopped death will likely occur in less than 5 mins.  

 

shoot him three times.

%chance of death: 99%  (from) heart destroyed by a bullet OR  Lungs destroyed by (at least) two bullets OR lungs damaged by one buller and critical bleeding from the other two bullets.  

%chance of survival 1% but could have damaged lung.  Will suffer critical bleeding.  Death likely in 1 min if no treatment received to stop bleeding. 

 

 

You shoot him in the lower chest

 

Once.

 

Chance of death:  25% (from) guts destroyed.

Chance of survival 75%  but could have damaged guts. Will suffer bleeding and death will likely occur in 20 mins if not stopped.

 

Twice. 

 

chance of death: 50% (from) guts destroyed.

Chance of survival: 50%.  could have damaged guts.  Will suffer heavy bleeding and death will likely occur in 10-15mins if not stopped. 

 

Three times

Chance of death:75% (from) guts destroyed

Chance of survival: 25% could have damaged guts and will suffer severe bleeding and death will come in 5 mins if not stopped.  

 

Four times:

Chance of death: 100% ( you know why by this point)

 

You shoot him in the legs (right, left or both)

 

Once

Chance of death: 0% but will suffer bleeding. 25mins till death if not stopped

Twice

0% but will suffer heavy bleeding.  15-20mins till death

Three times

chance of death: 30% (from) leg module destroyed. and catastrophic bleeding.

if survives: will suffer severe bleeding and will die in about 5-10 mins if bleeding doesn't stop.

Four times.  

60% of death from destroyed leg module.

Critical Bleeding and death in a few minutes if not stopped. 

Five times.  

90% chance of death.  Rest same as above.

Six shots to the leg will cause death no matter what in a matter of seconds.  

 

Being shot in the arms would behave like being shot in the legs but less durable.  5 shots to the arms would be fatal very quickly.

 

 

 

 

That is how the Makarov and other 9x18mm weapons should work IMO.

 

 

 

 

9x19 would behave similarly but slightly more lethal (approx. 10-20% more lethal depending on hit locations)

 

.45 ACP/11.43x23 would behave similarly but more lethal (approx. 30-50% more lethal depeding once again on locations.)

 

5.56 and 5.45  would have 50%-100% more lethality.  A single center of mass shot will severely maim and will cause death most of the time but surviving is possible.

 

7.62x39 would have maybe around 50%-150% more lethality. Same as above for the most part.  Ballistics can be weird here though.  Some times intermediate caliber rifle rounds over penetrate causing less damage.

 

7.62x51 and 7.62x54 would have 75%-200% more lethality.  Shots in the arms and legs could be survivable (with much bleeding    ^_^ ) but good luck with chest shots.  Survival would be quite rare.

 

 

Anything above that caliber would be blowing legs and arms off pretty frequently.  .338 Lapua would be maul folks.

 

 

 

12 guage would be very lethal 15m.   High chance of damaging many modules and causing tons of bleeding.  

 

 

Pistols would loose a lot of effectiveness past 50m. Shotgun pellets would have similar range.

 

SMGs would loose effectiveness between 75m-200m depeding greatly on the model and caliber.  

 

Intermediate calibers could reach out and touch people out to around 250m-300m

 

Rifles would still do serious harm well over 500m.  1000m would be a stretch.  (That guy on Electro Hill with a Mosin-Nagant or a Mauser 98 would be deadly.  But why is here wasting his limited ammo?  He won't even be able to get good gear b/c it'll be torn up) .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay there is my opinion.  Feel free to critique it.  Also if someone wants to make there own Percentage charts that would be very cool!    B)

 

I like this a lot if the 9mm had a little less damage.  Also 9x18 and 9x19 are virtually the same, the 18/19 is the length of the round not the width.

[Dr.Duff 211]

ORLY...but i don't think that is still news...

 

 

Not the weapons need the buff...the hitpoints system was replaced by the blood system which gave a player 3x the "hitpoints" the models actually had. That's is the one fault in DayZ but afaik they already adressed that by splitting blood into health, hunger and hitpoints.

 

 

Not really there are enough contemporary witnesses that prove otherwise. A couple miss parts of their skull or even the brain. In my brother in laws fathers case who served as a german tanker in WW2 he got hit just above the frontal bone it more or less grazed him but left a dent as deep as an average finger is in diameter. So in your terms he should be dead...

 

That is a very interesting story and whilst I mean no dissrespect to your or your family, that is a very rare occurrance and cannot be used to argue a point of what damage levels should be used in a video game.

 

Good day sir.

[AP_Norris 1017]

this has been brought up so much mate, if you adjusted the damage you'd have to adjust the spawn rate/ not allow you to spawn with a pistol or PvP would go crazy i remember when you could shoot a zombie in the chest with a 45 and they would drop

People spawning with pistols is pretty much going for PVP anyway, give them a crowbar for zombie defence.

A .45 ACP should 1 hit a DayZ zombie because they rely on their normal organs to operate and, a bullet to the heart or lungs should kill a person.

Bullets are designed to kill with centre mass shots, they don't purposely make BB guns that can only kill with a eye shot, because your gonna is five times and they're gonna kill you once with a 7.62 round.

No bullet should instakill that isn't making a fist sized hole in the chest, you should be knocked out with a couple seconds an attentive friend, might be able to save you, although very unlikely.

Leg & arms shots should never insta kill, even a .50 cal that blows your leg off, I wanna block off the bleeding and find my friend a peg leg.

Small injuries like 9mm leg shots should be less serious, but body shots should be serious stuff.

[creeperbane 26]

My main point is that I don't want the standalone to have the same crappy pistol damage the mod has.  "modifying" the spawns and stuff would not be needed since they are not changing guns they are adding guns.  A .45 should kill in 2-3 hits at least and if you don't want the zombies to drop in one raise their health.  They are still human after all not fragile piles of flesh and bones.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

I like this a lot if the 9mm had a little less damage.  Also 9x18 and 9x19 are virtually the same, the 18/19 is the length of the round not the width.

  

 

hahaha no kidding 18 isn't the width ahahah

 

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Not really there are enough contemporary witnesses that prove otherwise. A couple miss parts of their skull or even the brain. In my brother in laws fathers case who served as a german tanker in WW2 he got hit just above the frontal bone it more or less grazed him but left a dent as deep as an average finger is in diameter. So in your terms he should be dead...

 

You fail to take into account that being a soldier, he probably received rapid medical attention in a medically sound environment. DayZ does not have forward operating bases with a fully equipped M*A*S*H unit that can patch your skull back together. He most likely would not have survived that injury without medical help.

Edited September 17, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

He most likely would not have survived that injury without medical help.

 

In all of the damage/injury discussions, this tends to be overlooked.

The actual degree of damage from a gunshot is not measured in "blood" or "hitpoints", nor is it as simple as "headshot or not?".

Ruptured organs, broken/fragmented bones and wound contamination are not easily dealt with.

In a DayZ-like situation, you're highly unlikely to last very long after being shot at all, unless it's a glancing shot.

 

It's a balancing act between realism and gameplay, based on a lot of assumption.

Though the current system is, IMO, far too forgiving, making the injury system 100% accurate would lead to players' experiences suffering without adding anything to gameplay. You'd spend more of your time injured and dying than anything else.

 

Player characters have to remain somewhat functional up to the point of death, and death (when you're past the point of no return) has to come reasonably quickly. Otherwise folks will lose interest.

No matter how much gritty-realism and hardcore simulation you throw at it, it's still a game.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Chabowski

[-Gews- 7443]

You'd spend more of your time injured and dying than anything else.

I think the immediate effects should be as close to real life as possible... however, if you manage to survive, the healing process should be sped up / forgiving / etc. But not quite as sped up as cooked meat spamming behind a wall while still under fire...

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I agree.

What we could really use is a fleshed-out location-dependent injury system, like an expansion on the old Unreal Tournament and Deus Ex systems, or the crippled-limb system from the Bethesda Fallout games.

Basically anything to take away from the overly simplistic "hitpoints" we're used to.

 

As of right now we don't really know what DayZ has in store for us. Wait and see, I suppose.

[Bludy 324]

going deeper in this kind of thread always brings up a certain lack of realism, it's too hard to reproduce medical treatments, wounds (emodinamics, contraction of veins, emergency care, it's possible to survive a lung bleeding for some hours, air in your torax for even days, air/blood in your belly can be stood with a catether for some hour, if you loose a major artery you'll die in seconds minutes, even if it's a single wound in an arm, while you can survive for days some bullet around your abdomen/torax, muscolar tissue) at a certain point you must use a bleeding or hit points system, unless you design an extreme hit boxes pattern and different status for any of those. 

 

remaining on topic, i'd be satisfied with a mixture of :

 

1) hit boxes,

 

2) chance to cause a nomatterwhat fatal wound on hit( make it unbandagable),

 

3) weapon damage based,

 

not like with the old as.50, but we could say a: if you take two 7.62 you'll stay down unconscious without treatment.(those bitches(FMJ) can enter from a leg and spill out from your cranium).

[AP_Norris 1017]

I agree.

What we could really use is a fleshed-out location-dependent injury system, like an expansion on the old Unreal Tournament and Deus Ex systems, or the crippled-limb system from the Bethesda Fallout games.

Basically anything to take away from the overly simplistic "hitpoints" we're used to.

 

As of right now we don't really know what DayZ has in store for us. Wait and see, I suppose.

I remember when I first got a crippled head on fallout 3, I couldn't work out what was going on XD I was like, WHY IS EVERYTHING FUZZY!?

I'd like a authentic sort of dazed and confused system.

[JIJOK 49]

all weapons damage are wrong because there's no zone damage ( except head )