First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[JIJOK 49]

I am almost sure that ppl how want just 1st P  uses teamspeak or something like that and then complain about 3rd P , of course 3rd is a big advantage but a lot of stuff must be do before this , recently a zombie just walk through the wall behind me , no way to see it on 1st P  . Why use game voice chat if attracts zeds and teamspeak doesn't. I prefer 3rd person ppl that teamspeak  

[korrobravin 96]

I am almost sure that ppl how want just 1st P  uses teamspeak or something like that and then complain about 3rd P , of course 3rd is a big advantage but a lot of stuff must be do before this , recently a zombie just walk through the wall behind me , no way to see it on 1st P  . Why use game voice chat if attracts zeds and teamspeak doesn't. I prefer 3rd person ppl that teamspeak  

 

 

I agree, especially now that the game will have radios we can use to communicate (though they could be susceptible to eavesdropping) some (most) people will still use skype, TS, or other programs like that because having psychic communication powers (who can still talk when dead) don't break immersion.  Honestly, there are a lot of things that can be nitpicked at in Dayz, but 1st vs 3rd seems to be the latest scape goat.  Just have official 1st and 3rd person servers, and maybe set up a new system for 3rd person (IE when you try to bring the camera up to look over a wall/past a doorway that you can't normally see into, have it bring the camera in close to the character's shoulder or something like that, preventing disembodied spying.)  It's really a simple matter to fix.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

It's got nothing to do with "nit-picking" or being a recent scape-goat.  It's just about a pure design decision for the game.   It's something that's been discussed for as long as DayZ has been a thing.

 

It's been discussed a bit more recently because the SA is drawing near and it's now that people need to make their feelings known about these types of things so that the devs have the maximum amount of feedback to base certain decisions on.  

 

That's why Demon made this thread.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Fraggle

[Teo (DayZ) 6]

I don't really know about all this hassle around restrictions. People want ultimate realism and restrict all kind of stuff. Graphical settings are rumored to be restricted to look blurry and annoying (might really be my outdated info, hadn't been so active here lately). This third person view conversation has the same concept, about restricting player's choices.

 

Wouldn't it be simple to keep it like it is, admin decides if the 3rd person is active or not. Then players can join the servers they really enjoy. Doesn't have to be 100% same for everybody all the time.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Teo

[dsi24 227]

I don't really know about all this hassle around restrictions. People want ultimate realism and restrict all kind of stuff. Graphical settings are rumored to be restricted to look blurry and annoying (might really be my outdated info, hadn't been so active here lately). This third person view conversation has the same concept, about restricting player's choices.

 

Wouldn't it be simple to keep it like it is, admin decides if the 3rd person is active or not. Then players can join the servers they really enjoy. Doesn't have to be 100% same for everybody all the time.

It isn't that simple, the vast majority of people will always take the path of least resistance. Third person servers are easy servers, they provide you with a safe exploit that allows you to play DayZ safely.

If DayZ was suddenly first person only people would stop whining within a week, just like they did when starter revolvers were removed. Everyone knows it's bad for the game, but it makes the game easier so most people turn a blind eye.

It's really funny, I read this thread and I see a lot of people pointing out all the issues third person brings to the game, but absolutely no one can say how third person improves the game.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Dsi1

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

@ Teo - You could argue that for every single thing in DayZ though.  "Just let the admins decide!"....  "Choice is key!"...  I couldn't disagree more.

 

This is probably the last thing I'll post on the matter because I'm just repeating myself now but...  

 

Decisions that are key to the very core experience of DayZ need to be taken away from the admins.  The last year has shown that given the choice, players will generally choose the path of least resistance.  By far the most popular public servers for a while had stupid starting loadouts, rediculous amounts of vehicles, pay to win elements and anything else that could be added to basically make the game "easier".  Many of these players haven't even had the chance to play DayZ in the spirit it was intended.  That's not their fault,  it's a result of admins having too much choice and not really caring for the game, just wanting full servers to boost their ego's and wallets.

 

Edit - Well Dsi1 ninja'd me with almost exactly the same point, it's good to know I'm not going mental , great minds think alike  B)

Edited August 22, 2013 by Fraggle

[mercules 1290]

No need to be a douche about it, I am sure you could change some setting to make it where you wouldn't get sick, But everyone is different. I am sure there are a few people who have tried everything and it still doesn't help. I am just being open minded and considerate of others...So stop listing off crap like YOU know a way around it...Until you have the same problems that these people have...please shut up.

First Person Perspective with the head bob settings turned off is exactly the same as Third Person Perspective except you can't see around objects without sticking your head around them. I don't think he is being a douche or inconsiderate just explaining to them that their issue is not with 1st PP but with Head Bob which can be disabled. Ergo, their issue isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.

[dsi24 227]

First Person Perspective with the head bob settings turned off is exactly the same as Third Person Perspective except you can't see around objects without sticking your head around them. I don't think he is being a douche or inconsiderate just explaining to them that their issue is not with 1st PP but with Head Bob which can be disabled. Ergo, their issue isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.

Exactly! If you actually look at what you can do in the game or in the CFG, you find that every single 'issue' people find with first person is paper thin. Freelook lets you examine your surroundings and your clothing, numpad - lets you increase your FoV (making it similar to the placebo effect that the camera moving back to third person has, there is no FOV change!), turning off headbob and post processing will eliminate motion sickness, just as it does in every other FPS. In fact, you can do everything in first person you can in third... except for one key thing of course, seeing through walls. Few people will admit they like it easy, that they like the exploits, just like few hackers will ever admit that they do it.

It's incredible really, people cheered when it was announced that Planetside 2 was dropping third person for infantry, because everyone who played the first Planetside knew how bad it was for the game. But DayZ's 'anti-game' status seems to have given people the idea that exploits like this aren't bad for the game, its just them getting a leg up on the game... do you know that is the exact mindset of hackers and other exploiters?

It's understandable that people want it easy, it's part of the human condition. But you also have to realize when what you want isn't what you need. Hackers and exploiters lack this understanding.

Oh and, I've noticed the fabrication of a whole new excuse on this very page! "The textures don't look great" Amazing, isn't it?

Edited August 22, 2013 by Dsi1

[Wayze 549]

First Person

 

Pros:

+ the game is way more immersive

+ the game is way more harder -> players will have way more satisfaction and way more time until reaching end game

+ zombies are way more dangerous

+ the game is way more realistic and authentic

+ the game allows realistic combat strategies like in real life

+ the game is way more scary, constant fear of the not knowing

+ the game does not allow wall hacking immortal campers who are invisible (because that is exactly what someone on a firestation, with 3rd person mode on, is)

+ you do not see the shitty animations (let's be honest guys, you don't really expect the animations to be good, they will look like shit compared to next gen even when the game is out of the beta)

+ you feel way more integrated into the world, it is not just a character you see from behind, it is you who is in the world

+ you see your weapon all the time, your own costumized weapon which is awesome

 

Cons:

- no god mode for 12 years old

- no wallhack for 12 years old

- strategic features not for 12 years old

- fear and immersion not for 12 years old

 

 

Let's get to the point:
Allow third person and you allow the game to be a simple deathmatch.

 

Third Person is good for action games, but not for games like DayZ. It just isn't!

Edited August 22, 2013 by Wayze

[DanielTy88 133]

First Person Perspective with the head bob settings turned off is exactly the same as Third Person Perspective except you can't see around objects without sticking your head around them. I don't think he is being a douche or inconsiderate just explaining to them that their issue is not with 1st PP but with Head Bob which can be disabled. Ergo, their issue isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.

I'm done...This is pointless...

Edited August 22, 2013 by DanielTy88

[mercules 1290]

Look,  I don't know how it works...Do you? The reason I am sticking up for 3rd person is because a family member has this problem. We have tried everything! Nothing works except being in 3rd person. I have no fucking idea how or why it works,It just does...He doesn't use it to cheat, But to be able to play the game. just try and look at it if you where in his shoes. Oh standalone comes out 1st person only, Well fuck... there's another game I can't play. I just think there needs to be both 1st person and 3rd person servers that's it. 

 

Yeah, I do. You apparently haven't tried everything because turning off Head Bob makes 1st Person Perspective just like 3rd Pearson Perspective. Trust me, it is NOT the first person causing his issues it is motion blur and headbob creating motion in first person that doesn't do it in 3rd. It's not the viewpoint, it's the motion that creates motion sickness. ;) My wife gets motion sick. Turn off things like headbob and it no longer bothers her. 

[Wayze 549]

Look,  I don't know how it works...Do you? The reason I am sticking up for 3rd person is because a family member has this problem. We have tried everything! Nothing works except being in 3rd person. I have no fucking idea how or why it works,It just does...He doesn't use it to cheat, But to be able to play the game. just try and look at it if you where in his shoes. Oh standalone comes out 1st person only, Well fuck... there's another game I can't play. I just think there needs to be both 1st person and 3rd person servers that's it. 

I don't  want to be rude, but I don't believe your family member. And even if he got that disease, (and I have no idea what this disease would be called, like "Not able to play a game without seeing the character from behind"-disease?!) is it fair to ruin the gameplay for millions of people just for one person? Should we have all black screens, because it is unfair that blind people cannot play the game? No, if he is not able to play a game, well than he can stick to DayZ Mod. Ruining the gameplay for everyone else, just because of one person is ridicilous.

And what the 3rd-person defender don't realise is, that they would probably enjoy DayZ way more without the 3rd person. It is how the human works, he always tries to take the easiest path. And even if it is no fun, he will take that path.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Wayze

[DanielTy88 133]

I don't  want to be rude, but I don't believe your family member. And even if he got that disease, (and I have no idea what this disease would be called, like "Not able to play a game without seeing the character from behind"-disease?!) is it fair to ruin the gameplay for millions of people just for one person? Should we have all black screens, because it is unfair that blind people cannot play the game? No, if he is not able to play a game, well than he can stick to DayZ Mod. Ruining the gameplay for everyone else, just because of one person is ridicilous.

And what the 3rd-person defender don't realise is, that they would probably enjoy DayZ way more without the 3rd person. It is how the human works, he always tries to take the easiest path. And even if it is no fun, he will take that path.

 

I don't understand why people get so mad at having a choice on what kind of server you want to play on...I play on a DayZero 1st person only server. I don't go around preaching that every server should be first person because it's the best experience ever! I simply don't care, If they want to play on a 3rd person server, Let them... People act like if there is a 3rd person server that they have to join it. And as for my family member, Yes it was very rude! And just want to leave you with a big F YOU!

Edited August 22, 2013 by DanielTy88

[dgeesio 1034]

love how every person against 3d person lists it as a exploit to try and make their op valid :lol:

 

no way is right or wrong.

 

1st person has benifits as does 3d.

 

but... some people like playing 3rd person for the actual way it looks not for exploits. this is what people need to understand.

 

its actually easier to kill people for eg in first person but i prefer 3d person on a whole.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

dayz and the upcoming Sa are both sandboxs, and not simple CoD fps games. theres plenty of room for plenty of options for play style, just cuz you like 1 thing deosnt mean everyone else has to.

DayZ SA isn't really a sandbox. If there's no editor or a way to change/manipulate the game world as much as you want then it's not a sandbox. DayZ is just an open world survival game.

Graphical settings are rumored to be restricted to look blurry and annoying (might really be my outdated info, hadn't been so active here lately).

I've no idea where you had heard that. There might be graphical settings restrictions compared to Arma that for example you can't turn shadows or grass completley off but that's opposite of blurry and annoying. Post process or blur effects are optional.

[BigChef 55]

The first thing I'd do is lock the height of the 3rd person cam to keep it at eye level.  Straight away that'd rule out looking over walls, up/down stairwells and over the edge of buildings etc.

 

The context sensitive part could maybe involve closing the cam in tight to the player when they are against a wall.  So in open spaces you can still enjoy looking at yourself running around but when you take cover of some sort or camp/hide etc. the view gets restricted appropriately.  Maybe the cam would also then be locked or severely restricted in a position behind the players head.

 

I'm honestly not sure really but I'm sure some brainstorming could come up with a fairly elegant solution that doesn't require a ton of development time.

I like the locked height idea, 3rd person does bug me when I look down from about nine feet. I think the view say when the player is in a deer stand is great and would prefer it over the current camera view.

[DanielTy88 133]

Yeah, I do. You apparently haven't tried everything because turning off Head Bob makes 1st Person Perspective just like 3rd Pearson Perspective. Trust me, it is NOT the first person causing his issues it is motion blur and headbob creating motion in first person that doesn't do it in 3rd. It's not the viewpoint, it's the motion that creates motion sickness. ;) My wife gets motion sick. Turn off things like headbob and it no longer bothers her. 

 

This is pointless...I'm done.

Edited August 22, 2013 by DanielTy88

[Ruthlesss 14]

DanielTy88, on 22 Aug 2013 - 6:38 PM, said:

Look,  I don't know how it works...Do you? The reason I am sticking up for 3rd person is because a family member has this problem. We have tried everything! Nothing works except being in 3rd person. I have no fucking idea how or why it works,It just does...He doesn't use it to cheat, But to be able to play the game. just try and look at it if you where in his shoes. Oh standalone comes out 1st person only, Well fuck... there's another game I can't play. I just think there needs to be both 1st person and 3rd person servers that's it. 

 

 

I don't understand why people get so mad at having a choice on what kind of server you want to play on...I play on a DayZero 1st person only server. I don't go around preaching that every server should be first person because it's the best experience ever! I simply don't care, If they want to play on a 3rd person server, Let them... People act like if there is a 3rd person server that they have to join it. And as for my family member, Yes it was very rude! And just want to leave you with a big F YOU!

 

This guy.. In the first reply "Im sticking up for a family member", later in the same paragraph " Oh standalone comes out 1st person only, Well fuck... there's another game I can't play."

Also it should be 1st person, 3 person is just stupid because of the reasons stated in other posts, no point in re listing them because some people's skulls are just so thick they wont understand.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Ruthlesss

[RooBurger 285]

Some people actually prefer 3rdP because the hands don't look good enough? What the hell? If they were minecraft style block arms it wouldn't change the gunfight mechanics.

 

I think head bob should be removed entirely, or be switched off by default. There's no real reason to have it. In reality you aren't conscious of that movement, there's no need to try to emulate it.

[Jvalor 59]

Like I said before, and you can get pissy, heated and out-debate me all you want, I don't care. I don't need to win a debate with anyone. I'm just simply throwing my 2 cents in as far as what I believe the Devs want. And that is, Devs want a larger player base, whether you think they cater to hardcore players more or not, the fact is, as developers, they want to get the most out of the game they are putting out so there won't be any "1st person or GTFO". 3rd person will be in SA just as 1st person will be and the bulk of players will be using 3rd person again for obvious reasons and in a few months down the road, this thread or a new one will pop up and people will be bitching and whining about one or the other again. Face the facts or not, there are/will be more casual players than hardcore players and 9 times out of 10, they will be using 3rd person. It's not going anywhere.

 

And no, I'm really not taking up for one over the other, as I use both in different situations. But this thread has been pretty one-sided, in favor of 1st person and I feel that's because the majority of the players on here are veterans, hardcore players and people who are rather skilled at the game. But, there are still a shitload of people that play this game, that aren't registered on these forums or won't be, in fact, ever.

[Wayze 549]

I don't understand why people get so mad at having a choice on what kind of server you want to play on...I play on a DayZero 1st person only server. I don't go around preaching that every server should be first person because it's the best experience ever! I simply don't care, If they want to play on a 3rd person server, Let them... People act like if there is a 3rd person server that they have to join it. And as for my family member, Yes it was very rude! And just want to leave you with a big F YOU!

Because motherf*cking 99% of the servers are 3rd person server. If you give the choice to the admins they will change it to third person anyway because like I said most people will always take milk face path. The more players your server got the better, so you change it to 3rd person and voila all noobies who are not able to play the game normally are coming on the server, and this I can tell you is the biggest part of the players. As you can see, 90% of the DayZ players right now are these 12 years old who saw jackfrags or frankie on youtube and think "Haha this looks like action". They want third person, they want to pay for weapons and they want to kill on sight without reasons. These people are sadly the majority in DayZ, and these people are not hardcore DayZ players, these people actually destroyed the DayZ mod. And this is the motherf*cking reason why we are mad.

 

 

Like I said before, and you can get pissy, heated and out-debate me all you want, I don't care. I don't need to win a debate with anyone. I'm just simply throwing my 2 cents in as far as what I believe the Devs want. And that is, Devs want a larger player base, whether you think they cater to hardcore players more or not, the fact is, as developers, they want to get the most out of the game they are putting out so there won't be any "1st person or GTFO". 3rd person will be in SA just as 1st person will be and the bulk of players will be using 3rd person again for obvious reasons and in a few months down the road, this thread or a new one will pop up and people will be bitching and whining about one or the other again. Face the facts or not, there are/will be more casual players than hardcore players and 9 times out of 10, they will be using 3rd person. It's not going anywhere.

 

And no, I'm really not taking up for one over the other, as I use both in different situations. But this thread has been pretty one-sided, in favor of 1st person and I feel that's because the majority of the players on here are veterans, hardcore players and people who are rather skilled at the game. But, there are still a shitload of people that play this game, that aren't registered on these forums or won't be, in fact, ever.

Well, with DayZ SA there will be a hardcoregame. No matter if you want a big base or not. Hell, he is talking about things that no 12 year old kid wants to hear. The M4 is extremly rare, this was not the case in the mod. Kiddies were able to just find a weapon and have fun, this is not the case anymore. There are no weapons everywhere. There is no ammo everywhere. It is going to be freaking boring for them because they won't even be able to find a pistol without dying 20 times before. You cannot do that and expect to have a large community, because people don't like boring looting for days. They like action, as you can see they actually want 200.000 AS50 in their game. They want to buy weapons to start with them after every respawn. But these people will fataly fail in DayZ SA and they will have a very boring time because they expect DayZ SA to be like the mod, where you got AKs, Makarovs etc everywhere.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Wayze

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

 Devs want a larger player base, whether you think they cater to hardcore players more or not, the fact is, as developers, they want to get the most out of the game they are putting out so there won't be any "1st person or GTFO". 

If that was the case, there would be no diseases in SA, there would be thousands of cars and choppers (as opposed to most likely none at alpha launch), 24/7 daylight, ridiculous starting loadouts and much more. If the goal of the devs was to have as large player base as possible, DayZ SA would look nothing like it currently does and what it will look like in the future.

Would DayZ mod have gotten as popular if 3rd person never existed as an option in ARMA? The answer is of course yes. With the freelook feature, 1st person in ARMA is actually more useful than in many other first person games. If the SA was to come out tomorrow with no 3rd person there would be a huge shitstorm indeed. Eventually people would get used to it and adapt, as they're going to have to do in many other ways coming from the mod anyways.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

Just a general note to you all.

 

This is a very emotive subject, but please remember it's just a bit of chat about a game at the end of the day and nothing is set in stone.

 

Be excellent to each other.

 

If this descends into a slagging match then I will simply lock the thread and then you guys n girls wont be able to have your say.

 

We all have our opinions and thats great, but treat each other with respect please.

 

No STFU or FU or GTFO etc etc

 

We all love a mass debate, but don't make it an angry one, that way we all can have a happy ending.

 

Rgds

 

loK

Edited August 23, 2013 by orlok

[Hetstaine 10852]

I think the hands are far better now!  Arma 2's hands did look like a pack of sausages trying to hold a gun though.

 

 

 I am fucking starving.

[DanielTy88 133]

 

DanielTy88, on 22 Aug 2013 - 6:38 PM, said:

This guy.. In the first reply "Im sticking up for a family member", later in the same paragraph " Oh standalone comes out 1st person only, Well fuck... there's another game I can't play."

Also it should be 1st person, 3 person is just stupid because of the reasons stated in other posts, no point in re listing them because some people's skulls are just so thick they wont understand.

 

Did you not see that I wrote, Try to look at it from his point of view? I quoted it like it was him talking not me...This is why I just gave up...