No more 50 cals!

[aussiebobby 82]

Maybe the 50 cal should be added to the crafting thread

Input (AS50,M107)

Output (crutches)

Tools (COD,BF3 CD)

[skunkynugs 3]

Managed to get a AS50 and an FN FAL from 2 chopper crash sites on my first ever character, I have not had one since.

It seems everyone else in the server has one 24/7 though. I won't miss them, but they need to have something equally rare (not powerful) to replace them for all the loot whores :)

[HazZarD87 166]

Just another case of the whiners winning out. This wouldn't have happened with rocket still calling the shots on the mod.

And no I don't whore .50 cals. I can't be arsed at those ranges since it's too much of a walk to loot the body then. Gonna throw out my lee-enfield, M24, FN-FAL, M14 "one hit wonder wands" next?

[Firewarrior64 69]

Just remove helicopters. Forever. It's just unrealistic and a civilian (which your DayZ character is) would never be able to repair a helicopter in real life. I really loved helicopters when I didn't have the game- You know, endgame dreams. But that's the point: ENDGAME. DayZ shouldn't have a fucking endgame! The endgame is just survival and you shouldn't have a helicopter to fly away from the zombie hordes! That is my main point: If you fly fast enough and are not stupid enough to auto-hover above elektro, you are SAFE in a helicopter. You shouldn't feel save in DayZ. EVER. Of course, you could weaken the helicopters so a single cz550 shot to the rotor destroys it, but still that's not possible if the person flies to fast. I wish for no safety in DayZ ever. I personally miss the .50 calibres a little bit.. I never had one, but it gave me the feeling "okay, there might be an AS50 sniper watching me right now... one shot and I and my precious little car are history" I think they should be either added again or some other kind of anti-material rifle- or rocket launchers.

[Xianyu 820]

Just another case of the whiners winning out. This wouldn't have happened with rocket still calling the shots on the mod.

And no I don't whore .50 cals. I can't be arsed at those ranges since it's too much of a walk to loot the body then. Gonna throw out my lee-enfield, M24, FN-FAL, M14 "one hit wonder wands" next?

God, the slippery slope argument gets more and more stupid the more times I hear it.

Does the M14, FN FAL, M24 etc work perfectly at all ranges and do 39,000 blood damage a shot? No? Then kindly STFU. You people are the worst kind of whiners.

'Waaah, don't remove the obviously broken equipment! You'll take away ALL THE GUNS NEXT!'

[Kebab Remover 110]

Are you trying to tell me that I should be using an AR for ranges between 300-500 meters? Good luck hitting anything like that. Not even the AKM/SA-58 can hit accurately at that distance, even with zeroing. Gews can point you to his threads explaining that.

I also like that you are avoiding their questions by telling them that you can do whatever you want. Sure, you can, but that isn't going to last without a .50.

How so is not going to last without a .50?

And in regards, anything shorter than 500 is marksmanship, can be done with ACOGs, Irons, CCOs and scoped weaponry but the TTT and zeroing are so simple at those ranges that it does not lack the difficulty to be true "sniping".

[Xianyu 820]

How so is not going to last without a .50?

And in regards, anything shorter than 500 is marksmanship, can be done with ACOGs, Irons, CCOs and scoped weaponry but the TTT and zeroing are so simple at those ranges that it does not lack the difficulty to be true "sniping".

So basically, what you're saying is that sniping in this game doesn't fulfill your idea of what 'true' sniping is? And you need 50 calibre sniper rifles to do any 'skillful' sniping?

................................................

I rest my case.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese (DayZ) 71]

Anitmaterial .50 cal Elephant gun sniping isn't skillful. It's point and click.

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

Anitmaterial .50 cal Elephant gun sniping isn't skillful. It's point and click.

I would think that it would be a little harder than 'point and click.' But people seem to believe is that shooting a .50 resembles getting kicked in the chest by a pissed off donkey. Where as, I've seen 9 and 10 year old kids shoot a Barret.

The main issue with .50's in the "realism" section, is that they're pretty fucking heavy, and big. But if size is the reason they're taking them out, they should be taking out the M240, M249, and other large guns (which would piss me off to no extent.).

[Dreams_Of_Cheese (DayZ) 71]

You could at least justify the M249. LMGs are pretty heavy, but the black market must have a few lying around. I don't think I could say that same for a .50 or the M240 though.

[-Gews- 7443]

You could at least justify the M249. LMGs are pretty heavy, but the black market must have a few lying around. I don't think I could say that same for a .50 or the M240 though.

You could come up with a backstory to justify a US Army M249, but why bother?!?!?

The M249 is just a Minimi with a heat shield and a couple other minor changes...

[Dreams_Of_Cheese (DayZ) 71]

Holy crap those guns are literally identical.

Uh, I mean Grumble grumble as50s grumble

[Kebab Remover 110]

So basically, what you're saying is that sniping in this game doesn't fulfill your idea of what 'true' sniping is? And you need 50 calibre sniper rifles to do any 'skillful' sniping?

................................................

I rest my case.

Sorry? How does it rest your "case" mr internet lawyer. Shooting closer than 500m is childs play, too easy with the travel time. When I'm shooting a sprinting target at 1k+ I want my round to take them down in one hit so they can't scarper out of view distance.

Anitmaterial .50 cal Elephant gun sniping isn't skillful. It's point and click.

I didn't realise you could point and click moving targets?

[Xianyu 820]

Sorry? How does it rest your "case" mr internet lawyer. Shooting closer than 500m is childs play, too easy with the travel time. When I'm shooting a sprinting target at 1k+ I want my round to take them down in one hit so they can't scarper out of view distance.

I didn't realise you could point and click moving targets?

Well you're going to have to learn to aim for the head.

Have fun!

[tajjuk 65]

Yes. Fucking. YES. Have any of the previous conversations permeated your skull yet? This is a game, sure. But it's meant to simulate real life. It's meant to be difficult and hard and there aren't meant to be any easy-mode bullshit handholding that is so prevalent in every other game. BF3, CoD, CS, and every other game included.

Like I said the realism argument is 100% total BS. You can't fix your broken legs with morphine, you can't recover lost blood from meat, you can;t lug fricking car wheels around in a bag, if you were lugging a rifle around you certainly wouldn't be able to lug anything else. You can't just repair helicopters. Etc etc etc etc .

Get it.

The realism argument is pointless, either the whole game is 100% realistic or you accept it;s a game, for fun, played so people can do things they can't usually do in real life.

Does that permeate your skull and reach your peabrain.

Oh and here's some more realism for you, pretty much any hit from a fricking .50 cal would be fatal, in fact one shot from pretty much most of the guns is potentially fatal.

If you want to be able to kill someone at 1000 metres, it should require more training than just 'hey, press Page Up until that reader says '1000' and then put the crosshairs right on their chest for a sure kill! :D ' That is fucking terrible. And that is the bullshit that the 50 cal weapons brought to this game in force.

Don't stand fricking still in the open.. I'd like to see how many of your 'little kids' can hit a moving target at 1000m.

In real life, sniping requires mathematics and trigonometry to accomplish at extreme ranges. Bullet speed, air pressure, temperature, the Coriolis effect, the curvature of the earth, the rotation of the earth, the relative differences in height between you and your target. All of these things start to come into effect at extreme ranges.

So not only do you have to be aware of the wind (which can change three or more times between you and your target), the temperature, the distance, how fast your bullet travels, how fast your target is moving if at all, the relative height distance, and all that other shit, you even have to figure out where you are on the earth, and where your target is on the earth, so that you can account for how far the earth will turn and the effect it will have on the bullet's flight path between you and your target.

That is a frighteningly, insanely complicated procedure that requires the use of computers and/or charts for you to figure out in enough time to be able to make the shot.

It is a process that is reduced down to 'press page up or page down until you get the right distance and fire' in Arma 2. And if it went 'truly authentic' I would cheer.

Real life blah, is all that says, refer to my above point. You can't pick and choose realism elements, fine we have realistic sniping, but it's gonna to take you 6 months and some physio to recover that broken leg and a few weeks to fix that car you found.

ITS A GAME GET OVER IT AND DEAL WITH IT.

You do know that most of the community don't come on the forums, if .50 cals were such a huge nuisance why are there so many people happily getting on with the game, They are happily according to you getting killed all the time by 12 year olds with AS50s, it;s funny bacause that's not my experience, in fact I've barely seen an AS50 and I've not been killed by one.

Some clarification for you:

Sniping in DayZ is actually easier than BF3, and that's saying something. Even just adding wind to a bullet's flight path would be enough to have a massive effect on the game.

And if you knew anything about the game, you would know that the 50's weren't removed because they were too good at close range. They were too good at any range. From 5 metres, to 5000. The 50 cal sniper rifles were the best in every single situation except if you were surrounded by ten thousand zombies and none of them had noticed you yet. And even then, I'd take the 50 and the chance I could outrun them all.

And at that point, it's not a case of being 'op'. It's not a case of 'whining'. It's a case of being a broken mechanic.

Unless you think that a 50 sniper rifle should be able to be used as well as an MP5 at close range?

lol wut? Your a broken record I'd welcome the day players starting going into CQB battles with an AS50 it would make those runs around Cherno so much easier. Just because statistically something kills in one shot doesn't mean that in practice it's the best at all ranges. The AN-94 and G3A3 in BF3 has the best TTKs in the game at close range of all the automatic weapon yet pretty much 90% of the player base don't use them.

I think you've spent too much time up that molehill.

Even with the removal of the 50's, it's only a stop-gap. The DMR, M24, and CZ550 can fulfill the same role with less ridiculously powerful results. The DMR can be used at close range as a spray weapon. But none of them can be used at close range to contend with assault rifles and SMG's with barely any contest.

The two 'top tier' weapons that are always above and beyond every single other gun in the game in all situations simply won't be there any more. Your choice of weapon will be situational instead of 'I'll take this until I find a 50'. And in terms of a GAME, that's much, much better.

http://www.globalsec...0/ch32.htm#s2p3

Educate yourself.

So why are they not everywhere? why are people wandering around Cherno with assault rifles? Why do people who have them give them up? Why do people choose other guns over them?

Because they aren't as close to as good as you make them out to be.

LOL :@ Educate yourself, the irony.

Like I said many many posts back I don't really care about their removal, it doesn't effect me because I choose other weapons, I've given away the supposed wonder weapon that is the AS50s. However this realism rubbish being used for game balance is total rubbish as it's used to subjectively people use it when they don't like something they don't agree with but conveniently ignore it when other gameplay elements are discussed.

You talk a lot about skill and how it's skill less in using AS50s, well then surely there is a lot of skill in avoiding them. They like choppers, the other rifles add a level of threat in the game that always makes you weary, that keeps you on your toes and makes you feel like at any point you could be outgunned and under threat.

Take that away and you just make the game easier IMO, no helicopters and I can hide stuff and it will probably never get found, no sudden feeling of "oh f*ck is that a chopper!", no sniper rifles then I can run through fields easily, no sudden "shit, that's an AS50".

Game gets easier.

Edited May 24, 2013 by tajjuk

[-Gews- 7443]

The realism argument is pointless, either the whole game is 100% realistic or you accept it;s a game, for fun, played so people can do things they can't usually do in real life.

[...]

Real life blah, is all that says, refer to my above point. You can't pick and choose realism elements, fine we have realistic sniping, but it's gonna to take you 6 months and some physio to recover that broken leg and a few weeks to fix that car you found.

Making sniping more realistic is an improvement... it's already been worked on and mentioned as a possible future update by R4Z0R.

I don't know why you'd oppose improving something.

If people all had the "realism doesn't matter" attitude we'd have hitscan instead of bullet drop... in fact, if realism didn't matter to people, we wouldn't have ArmA at all, and therefore no DayZ either.

Some of your other points were fair enough.

[tajjuk 65]

Making sniping more realistic is an improvement... it's already been worked on and mentioned as a possible future update by R4Z0R.

I don't know why you'd oppose improving something.

If people all had the "realism doesn't matter" attitude we'd have hitscan instead of bullet drop... in fact, if realism didn't matter to people, we wouldn't have ArmA at all, and therefore no DayZ either.

Some of your other points were fair enough.

That wasn't what was being discussed though, they've removed the guns entirely apparently on the basis that they kill in one hit which is in fact realistic to their abilities.

If I shot you in the leg with a 9mm you could die if I hit an artery, if I did it in Arma you would loose some health, In Day Z you would bleed..

But from a gameplay element and I would imagine a programming element its simpler to implement and more fun for the player for the latter rather than the former more realistic option. Same goes with the medic system, it makes no sense from realism point of you but adds interest from a gameplay point of view. take a hit you bandage, loose blood, less easy, more realistic than say auto-health regen but more fun that what an ultra realistic approach would be.

I don't like the 'pick and choose' realism argument, I'm not against 'more realistic' gameplay elements but not because they are more realistic therefore that is by default better. It should be done on the basis as to what this adds to the gameplay of the game.

It's the balance between realism of the mechanic and 'fun' of the mechanic. It's unrealistic that people can fix a chopper and fly it, but it;s fun, lots of people like this element and it works as a gameplay mechanic IMO. It takes a while, requires a decent amount of work, it's not easy or quick by game terms but it's not so true to real life to make it so most people would never ever even bother.

Add some wind elements that mean long distance sniping is harder by all means, but don't do it because we are striving for some ultra-realistic game, do it because you want to make other weapons more viable options for players.

Edited May 24, 2013 by tajjuk

[r4z0r49 4761]

they've removed the guns entirely apparently on the basis that they kill

No we didn't.

[Xianyu 820]

No we didn't.

On the very real chance that I'll anger the gods of flame wars, why exactly were the 50 cals removed?

[creature 1189]

On the very real chance that I'll anger the gods of flame wars, why exactly were the 50 cals removed?

IMO its because people aren't happy with what Rocket chose to leave in the mod.

I look forward to the next patch. It'll push even more players to customized private servers.

Not to mention that it seems any weapon that doesn't have a non optic version will also be removed from the mod. Bye bye m14 and dmr? At least that's how I interpret it.

[fluxley 2228]

Weapons with attachments are not being removed, they just wont spawn naturally anymore, to get them you will have to craft them by finding the attachment separately.

[bfisher 561]

What will be the accessories? Scopes, reflex sights, flashlights, and picatinny rails or can we take some duct tape and 2x4s and turn 4 guns into one big gun?

[BarryManalow 1]

Dont know if we still discussing the 50s.

From my experience it makes everything way too easy.

I can just get standoff kills at 1200M plus wich is retarded.

Even at the end of the effective point target range the 50 will still 1 hit kill(big bullet)

This is totally realistic, a zombie game however has nothing to do with realism.

Therefore i move to remove 50 caliber weapons,

Firefights will get a little more interesting without the spectre of a 1400M i it kill looming over your shoulder.

Just to confirm this i have scored 1400M kills on dayz and arma(ace) with 50 cal weapons it just takes 2 seconds for a target to sit still.

I did have way more trouble in ACE with the windage and all.

Maybe the weapon variety in dayz is okay, the long range shooting mechanic just needs to be nerfed a little bit.

Because its seriously easy mode once you get a scoped rifle.

Make it more like ACE handles projectiles. And the only succesfull snipers you will encounter are the ones that know how to play that role.