What if we removed the crosshair?

[nik21 287]

Well if it is still possible, I feel that they would do it eventually, then it'll just spread like hotcakes. And like you said, the improvement is extremely marginal, and personally I feel it won't improve performance enough to justify the complete removal of a feature many rely on.

See rocket's quote.

The ones who WANT to create ESP hacks will do so, no matter if there's a crosshair or if it will be a little harder to do so.

I still don't get how the crosshair thing should prevent ESP hacks because ESP is simply drawing something (mostly with a D3D Hook and not engine based) over the Screen at the adresses of player models/ items/ cars etc.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Nik21

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

If the interface has been improved so it's easier to open doors, climb ladders or pick up things, especially now that not everything is on the floor, then yes, removing the crosshair would be excellent.

There is such thing as too many options. People don't want to adjust even if it's for the better long term experience. Making it optional basically means "crosshair = on".

[mzltv 2281]

Yes, but should your personal preference dictate the options available to everyone? That's what I'm getting at. Like I said, my personal choice is no crosshairs, but that shouldn't be the be-all-end-all.

If you remove the crosshair for the Standalone, then people will not miss it because they've never had it.

It offers no aid as it is, anyway. I only shoot from the hip if I'm about to get furiously bummed by zombies; any other player, I shoot from down-the-barrel.. I'd expect a load more players take the same approach to engagement.

I just think it's silly to implement massively realistic and complex systems like disease and food/hydration management if you're still gonna have something as contradicting as a crosshair floating left right and centre.

But, whilst the HUD is still there, what makes the crosshair any more immersion-breaking than an ammo counter? or a hunger meter?

Don't get me wrong, by the way. I think the only thing on the screen should be hydration, hunger, blood levels, temperature and maybe a humanity indicator.

At least those are justifiable in a sense that a person knows if they've not eaten in 12 hours...

Edited January 21, 2013 by mzltv

[Rage VG 4033]

The ones who WANT to create ESP hacks will do so, no matter if there's a crosshair or if it will be a little harder to do so.

My point exactly. Why permanently remove a feature simply to delay them? It will still get out there eventually, so it's not worth sacrificing anything to slow it; it's just delaying the inevitable.

[SmashT 10907]

Good point Rista, accessing tents, picking up items, climbing ladders is extremely clunky at the moment and having crosshair enabled helps you to find the "sweet spot"

[biokemisten 22]

Yes please!

[rocket 16567]

My point exactly. Why permanently remove a feature simply to delay them? It will still get out there eventually, so it's not worth sacrificing anything to slow it; it's just delaying the inevitable.

We wouldn't be delaying them, we would be forcing them to use a different method that might be arguably more difficult.

As noted above, removing them would go in line with the removal of essentially all the other UI elements (such as ammo count etc...).

[nik21 287]

My point exactly. Why permanently remove a feature simply to delay them? It will still get out there eventually, so it's not worth sacrificing anything to slow it; it's just delaying the inevitable.

Well yeah, my suggestion is still to make it

1. Less accurate like shown in ARMA 3

2. Have it as a server side option (off by default if you want..)

:)

[rocket 16567]

Good point Rista, accessing tents, picking up items, climbing ladders is extremely clunky at the moment and having crosshair enabled helps you to find the "sweet spot"

This is a very good point

[Rastamaus 323]

If you are removing the entirety of the HUD, then it's a given the crosshairs go. But, whilst the HUD is still there, what makes the crosshair any more immersion-breaking than an ammo counter? or a hunger meter? They're all equally as viable for first choices. And as I've said a few times, when it's a case of multiple options, it's always best to try and compromise.

compromise is better in many situations but is can also ruin things, make Dayz SA the exception, make it so you need to actually practise to get good, if people want to be sharpshooters from the off the market is jam packed with titles that allow that, i say be brave, sod compromise and make this game unique. Make it so to be good you need to work at it.

[attorney1977 311]

I still don't get how the crosshair thing should prevent ESP hacks because ESP is simply drawing something (mostly with a D3D Hook and not engine based) over the Screen at the adresses of player models/ items/ cars etc.

If the guns didn't sway (like in WarZ), the guy writing the ESP function will just draw a crosshair at screen position [0.5,0.5]. Very easy to do and you don't need to hook into the game to work out where the centre of the screen is.

Because the guns in Arma sway and the crosshair moves in accordance, they would have to hook into the code/memory to find the correct screen co-ordinates at the correct time. This is probably easy to write, but then is another active thread/process that can be detected by anti-cheat measures (ala Rockets explanation)

[Rage VG 4033]

If you remove the crosshair for the Standalone, then people will not miss it because they've never had it.

It offers no aid as it is, anyway. I only shoot from the hip if I'm about to get furiously bummed by zombies; any other player, I shoot from down-the-barrel.

I just think it's silly to implement massively realistic and complex systems like disease and food/hydration management if you're still gonna have something as contradicting as a crosshair floating left right and centre.

There will still be tonnes of players from the mod who've played with crosshairs.

Personally, (And I don't want you to take what I'm about to say the wrong way; even if I don't agree with you, your opinion cannot be incorrect) I don't agree with your reasoning simply because you're still only talking about you. You've never shot from the hip, you always aim down sights. I'm seriously going to sound like a broken record repeating this, and I apologize for that, but I think that when you consider why you should and shouldn't do something, you should not rely on personal choice. Instead think of the entire community at large. Does literally nobody shoot from the hip, and can you attest to that?

Again, not saying you are wrong, only that I do not agree. If I HAD to choose between crosshairs or no crosshairs, it would be no crosshairs. I'm just hoping for good reasoning as to why it has to be one or the other.

[nik21 287]

We wouldn't be delaying them, we would be forcing them to use a different method that might be arguably more difficult.

As noted above, removing them would go in line with the removal of essentially all the other UI elements (such as ammo count etc...).

Most ESP hacks use D3D Hooks anyway, only very few are engine based.... also that doesen't have any effect on their detectability whatsoever....

[rocket 16567]

If the guns didn't sway (like in WarZ), the guy writing the ESP function will just draw a crosshair at screen position [0.5,0.5]. Very easy to do and you don't need to hook into the game to work out where the centre of the screen is.

Because the guns in Arma sway and the crosshair moves in accordance, they would have to hook into the code/memory to find the correct screen co-ordinates at the correct time. This is probably easy to write, but then is another active thread/process that can be detected by anti-cheat measures (ala Rockets explanation)

Exactly what I was trying to say, but in much simpler words.

[nik21 287]

If the guns didn't sway (like in WarZ), the guy writing the ESP function will just draw a crosshair at screen position [0.5,0.5]. Very easy to do and you don't need to hook into the game to work out where the centre of the screen is.

Because the guns in Arma sway and the crosshair moves in accordance, they would have to hook into the code/memory to find the correct screen co-ordinates at the correct time. This is probably easy to write, but then is another active thread/process that can be detected by anti-cheat measures (ala Rockets explanation)

I have never EVER seen a dynamic crosshair within a hack, all of them are indeed simply at the center of the screen. Applies for Arma 2/ ***s as well.

[YorkEagle 23]

i have always turned the cross hairs off in games that have iron sights... even the fallout 3 community made an iron sight mod to increase immersion as many did not like shooting from the hip with the aid of a cross hair

[attorney1977 311]

Good point Rista, accessing tents, picking up items, climbing ladders is extremely clunky at the moment and having crosshair enabled helps you to find the "sweet spot"

But you can look down the sights to do this.

Maybe expand the bounding box of the models slightly to be a bit more generous when the player wants to interface with items? Even with crosshairs, it's fiddly trying to pick up a crossbow bolt.

[Rage VG 4033]

We wouldn't be delaying them, we would be forcing them to use a different method that might be arguably more difficult.

When you put it that way, I believe that's a better reason for removing it. I'd say that's enough of a reason to justify removing it, even if the option to turn it on would be more favorable.

As noted above, removing them would go in line with the removal of essentially all the other UI elements (such as ammo count etc...).

Again, if the whole HUD's going, then I'm all for that, too. My reply to that was simply that I didn't uderstand what made the crosshairs the more viable option (as far as a HUD in general went, ignoring other factors such as the aforementioned prevention of hacks).

[SmashT 10907]

But you can look down the sights to do this.

What if you don't have a gun?

[Nyctalgia (DayZ) 7]

As it stands now, looks like most people want to take them out (I'd actually thought it would be the opposite). I also feel adding to the realism and removing it is the right way to go for standalone. The ruthlessness of DayZ was what made me fall in love with it. Having crosshairs feels like the opposite of the DayZs philosophy.

[mzltv 2281]

Personally, (And I don't want you to take what I'm about to say the wrong way; even if I don't agree with you, your opinion cannot be incorrect) I don't agree with your reasoning simply because you're still only talking about you. You've never shot from the hip, you always aim down sights. I'm seriously going to sound like a broken record repeating this, and I apologize for that, but I think that when you consider why you should and shouldn't do something, you should not rely on personal choice. Instead think of the entire community at large. Does literally nobody shoot from the hip, and can you attest to that?

Again, not saying you are wrong, only that I do not agree. If I HAD to choose between crosshairs or no crosshairs, it would be no crosshairs. I'm just hoping for good reasoning as to why it has to be one or the other.

Aye, I get what you're saying, and it's true because the only experience I can possibly draw from is my own..

But as I've said in the remaining chunk, it seems that having all these detailed systems and functions akin to reality are surely massively contradicted if there's a crosshair in the mix.

[themurdertrain 33]

I'd rather not see them at all. They're kind of a distraction. Granted hipshots are necessary sometimes, but even with that just aiming in the general direction of the enemy works.

All too often you can zoom without using iron sights and turn a Lee Enfield into a DMR for PvP, just because it's almost 100% accurate to the crosshair and the player zoom offers better visibility than ADS with a Lee Enfield.

I'm for zero HUD in general.

[Rastamaus 323]

What if you don't have a gun?

hopefully the SA will address the issue with having to find a particular pixel to open gates, access tents etc.....

[bolder 3]

Remove that would be great.

[rocket 16567]

hopefully the SA will address the issue with having to find a particular pixel to open gates, access tents etc.....

And I think that's really the crux of the issue I suppose