Search the Community

Most likely killed whilst waiting to log out completely, anti ghosting in any shape or form is good. Blaming your death on misconception of how the game works is bad.

Ok here's the idea: the character has to sleep and be rested. But how to implement this? With a sleeping pad and a parallel world called dreamland. When you need to rest you put your sleeping pad down wherever you feel safe and go to sleep. When you sleep you enter dreamland. Dreamland is basically the same world, but slightly different. Food items aren't present in dreamland because you don't need to eat in dreamland. So all food items are made invisible and non-interactive locally for the dreamer (of course not global). When you enter dreamland you create a random character of yourself (same look, different stuff - sometimes you may have full military gear, other times just civilian stuff). It's basically you dreaming about yourself but in your dreams weird things happen, right? So instead of being a poor dude you're a high grade military officer for instance. Anyways: you can't see or interact with nor hear other players who are not sleeping/in dreamland, but you can interact with those who are in dreamland. So dreamland basically turns certain things locally invisible and inaudible while it enables other things like fast travel and other gimmicks like maybe ghosting for some time - but only in dreamland. If you die in dreamland you wake up before your sleep cycle is over - as if you would wake up from a nightmare. But you don't lose any of the real gear you got because it was just a dream with dreamland-gear, right? As soon as a shot is fired in the real world nearby where you went to sleep you will abruptly wake up as well where you went to sleep. Either well rested or also like woken in shock - depending on how long you were able to rest. In dreamland you can meet other people who are also in dreamland without having to fear they might "really" kill you on sight and take your stuff - because there is no stuff other than what you already have in dreamland - which is not lootable. But you can arrange a meeting with them in the "real world" if you feel you trust them through your encounter in dreamland - except for their skintone and face/gender they will be differently clothed and equipped. What you saw in dreamland of them was just their own projection of themselves at another time (or entirely fictitious altogether). To make killings of the sleeping less likely: If someone in the real world comes close to your sleeping self (1st "outer" perimeter, i.e. 200 meter radius from your sleeping body) it snaps you back to your real world body's location -weather you like it or not- but you remain still in dreamland! it is as if one of your senses is trying to keep you from harm and slightly waking you, but not quite. so while still in dreamland but on your body you are forced to look in the direction where the threat is (while they are still invisible because you are still sleeping after all). And you can't wake up unless they somehow wake you up either through being within the second, closer-proximity-radius (2nd "inner" perimeter, i.e. <100 meters) or they make noises (eating, shooting, talking, sprinting, reloading, ..) within this 2nd perimeters' radius/shooting within the 1st perimeter. You still can't see them from dreamland but you can see where the potential danger is coming from (through being forced to look in their direction from your sleeping spot while still in dreamland, after a quick snap-back to your body's location) though still asleep. So if the 2nd perimeter is breached you wake up, either well rested or abruptly and sweating as if awoken from a nightmare or shock (i.e. gunfire) after very little sleep, you then have the choice: pack your stuff and run away from the direction you were warned about or head towards that direction that you were forced to look towards in dreamland and confront the intruder. The choice is yours. But since you couldn't see the intruder(s) you might be up for a surprise - either good or bad. Sleeping should give you the perk that you have better aim and maybe greater endurance in the real world. The other perks of being in dreamland, except from being able to meet new people without having to lose gear, are to be discovered and discussed. I think all in all it might be better and more interesting than having tents. I would remove tents to be honest and include digging up crates for storage instead. Oh and whether you sleep at day or at night is up to you - unless you haven't slept in a long time in which case you might not have an option. (Maybe daytime cycle should be cut shorter in order for this implementation to work - it's not like anyone is playing 24h without interruption, not to mention server restarts which resets the time back to the starting time - UNLESS the time will be persistent after a server restart, which could solve the time cycle issue). Some random thoughts/ideas/possibilities on how to implement it visually: For the visuals: increased bloom, fog to max, different colors, caustics light emitters, colored fog, .. maybe make it appear like underwater somewhat like so: http://static-3.nexusmods.com/15/images/110/2762305-1384670704.jpg [^] or so http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gqMMmRXLG9U/URaFxv8RI1I/AAAAAAAACnw/uV8mYQMiXws/s1600/Nereocystis+luetkeana-+bullwhip+kelp03.jpg [^] or so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D9OTNhubbA [^] maybe different movement, different sounds, occasionally you having nightmares due to the zombie apocalypse or illness, maybe with additional zombie noices, twiggs cracking and heavy breathing (think of the Max Payne dream scenes), different perspectives, sometimes doom and gloom, other times sweet dreams and increased white bloom. the potential is huge! just different everything. it is a dreamland after all ^^ or you go to sleep and if log out like that and when you log back in later you are well rested. so you don't have to go through a dream/astral-travel mode if you don't want to.

OK I said this before but just to make it clear - let's forget the "problem" and look at the gameplay. Suppose there was a little change in the gameplay: Suppose that I picked some buildings at NWA .. let's say ALL the buildings to keep it simple. Just the buildings. AND a new rule is you cant log out inside a building. That's the only change in the software. OK. So what would happen ? I mean what would happen to the gameplay (forget wetbacks hoppers!). Let's think how gameplay would change. OK - first no one would log in inside the airport tower etc.. because they can't log out there, so they cant log in there. So no one is going to be surprised after they have cleared a building when someone logs in behind them. And no one will be logging inside the walls either. And no snipers will be logging in on roofs - and as we know, that's a form of ghosting that the existing timer hasn't touched . If players want to log close to the buildings, because they want to change servers, or to be ready for action quicky, they have to go outside and find some sheltered place to hide. But that will be more risky for them, because they will not be in an enclosed space.. so logging in will have more risk (we know what NWAF is like, we've all been there) .. they can hide but not as completely as in a room. If you log in to a room you only have the risk that the one room is occupied - outside at NWAF you can never be confident of who is around anywhere, so you are likely to seek a 'good' place to log. You're not going to log outside the door of the ACT building, for sure.. This is why - at the moment - players DO log inside the airport buildings. They have assessed the risks and the effort, and decided this is the best bet. So my little change stops all that, they have to rethink. Everyone knows (from play experience) that moving across the airfield between buildings is a lot more risky than being inside a building.. and everyone is relieved when thy get that door shut behind them. So there is a change in the risk and in player habits right there.. but: Even more interesting: if you can't log out in a building what do you do in a firefight? You are in the building and suddenly there are unfriendlies outside. A standard solo thing is to shoot and then log and hope they won't rush you, or "pretend" to log and hope they do rush you. A standard squad thing is for the squad to log and leave one volunteer rearguard to take the shots, then you meet him where he respawns and re-equip him. If you are the squad outside you either wait, and the player inside will probably NOT come out or even surrender, or you can rush in and accept the casualties. So - with no logout in the building, the situation has changed. Firstly it is more realistic, you are pinned down in a building, and the squad do not want to come in, they KNOW you are still there and they know they WILL take casualties. And you KNOW you can't escape unless you do a Butch Cassidy, OR you really surrender.. see ? Suddenly there is an additional REALITY that was absent previously. You could even have a siege that goes on for hours, why not ?? with real negotiations for surrender.. with real desperate last stands.. And when you turn up at the airfield in the first place and get inside a building.. you now know you are NOT safer than outside.. you are maybe totally trapped.. "life and death" trapped.. so you have different stress levels and different expectations of the possible outcomes So simply having one rule change, will change the whole game played around those buildings. If a sniper wants to get up on a roof he has to start on the ground and walk up there, he can't log on somewhere else and ghost around to a couple of populated servers for the evening.. if you want to log out at the NWAF you have to find some place to shelter before you log, you can't zap between rooms and servers without moving your feet or having to hide ..if you enter a building you have to keep a good lookout, because if someone turns up to cover the door, you are really in the shit.. just like Real Life.. one guy behind a bush with a shotgun, and suddeny you leaving the building is no fun at all, and you are STRESSED.. and you can't quietly log in a corner and hope to get away to a quiet server. OK, so the gameplay changes, players have to adjust to the new situation, there is different stress for different reasons.. NOW - the other thing we need to do is see how that could be used for meta-gaming, or could adversely affect gameplay: Suppose someone fast logs, pulls the plug, while they are surrounded in the building.. what happens?? Well - Can't have the guy respawning somewhere on the perimiter, because he would be behind the dudes who trapped him, that would be too good to miss and a lot of players would take advantage of it. Cant have him logged back in inside the building after a loss of connection, because then he could circumvent the whole rule, and log in or out where he liked just by pulling the plug So if there is a loss of connection, or if there is a server restart, where is the player located when he logs in? He has to be somewhere that does not give him any advantage.. What do you suggest - directly outside the door of the building ? Even "somewhere fairly close" to the building would be an advantage if there was a squad covering you and you cheat-logged to escape, because the rule does not let you log in the normal way.. So - there's no problem for a server restart, everyone can be 'put back' exactly where they were (inside or out) no unfair advantage. BUT wherever the player is logged back in after a cheat logout (disconnection) - he can always use the cheat logout to save himself - so the player can get around the rule every time, unless a deliberate disconnection kills him in the building. But this is only the same as a fast logout when you're on a ladder ? Anyway, I talked about this already.. And I hope I've showed that small changes in the game rules can produce very different gameplay and different expectations, especially in a locality famous for PvP. This idea might generate some interest n PvP players, and in anyone looking for excitement, or for a measure of realism.. just because it prevents the obvious stupid abnormalities that exist in the game at the moment, which are abused to the max by just about every pvp player and looter (everyone). This would make for more interesting fight scenarios, obviously.. the risks would be more realistic.. and all this from just ONE change that everyone can easily understand and live with. But I have stuff to do in my real life (play DayZ bro)..my only point is - as long as you look down on and despise players who play differently than you, your solutions to "deal with them" will not be good solutions. And even without considering "hopping" - isn't my little rule change an interesting idea for the gameplay in many situations that are easy to imagine? = it's just an idea.. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone, and no one's listening anyway, far as I can tell .. except the pristine contributors who search for phrases they can get stroppy about .. the player haters.. but that's a different game, it's not DayZ pilgrim this is LONG and Boring - but ya did ask, sorry.

1) "loot hoppers" are evil foreign immigrants who come into your country to steal your work and get their hands on your women.. I mean your loot ... we all hate those outsider, right ? Dont we ? I don't have a country myself so perhaps I hate them less than other players do. You shouldn't mix up "hopping" and "ghosting" they are very different, and there is already a timer to deal with ghosting. Also, we know that all the players who complain about hopping do it themselves. When they do it, it's justifiable - when someone else perhaps does it, those same people start the angry slurs and shouting, and imagine that some poor kid has stolen all the loot out of their server (and that's the only reason the pristine players hop themselves, because there's no loot in 'their own' airfield, of course) 2) A no logout zone is a penalty timer, exactly the same as a log-in timer, but you serve the penalty inside the game. If you can't log out in an area, it will take you time to go to an area where you can. But a time penalty in the game is more dangerous and more interesting for players than a time penalty spent outside the game looking at an empty screen with a count on it. If you can't log out in an area, you have to be there WHEN you don't want to be there.. that's a time function, OK ? The time 'delay' takes place in the game space, instead of a time delay outside the game space. I hope no one has trouble understanding this ( to move in space takes time, got it ? ).. [ make a note of that, dudes, it's a useful concept ] I don't know where you get "suicide" from. Why does a no-logout area mean "suicide" ??? I don't follow that at all. You have to be aware that any game mechanic is open to abuse. If someone pulls the plug out of their PC, what happens to their character ? well - already, ( a ) avoiding death, and ( b ) duping, are two things that can happen if you mess with fast exit. So what happens if someone pulls the plug in a no logout area ? You can't have them respawn at the perimiter because that would be perfect for ghosting AND for escaping from being surrounded. right ? But where is "suicide" in this ? Your "logout=suicide" thing is baffling. If you pvp in a no logout area it will be slightly more dangerous than pvp in any normal area, with the already-existing anti combat-log timer. 3) you say: "timers are not lack of design, they are an evil in absence of better solutions" but dude - an absence of better solutions IS a lack of design. It's not anything else. The solution comes from the design. Unless you have design you have no solution, right ? design = solution So at the moment everyone goes for the easiest crappiest solution - and why ? Because those vocal "honest-joe" player-folk like to delude themselves that someone else is causing the problem, so its ok to stick a dumb no-brain solution on them, because they are bad and we don't need to think about it. We aren't game designers, we just want to dump on the players we dont like. We want them to go away back where they came from.The "honest-joe" players want to get rid of the "wandering immigrants" by any means, they don't really care how.. in fact as they say openly, they "don't give a shit". As I said at the start of the thread, I don't have a problem with players who move between servers ( what do you call them again?) but there are ways to get better gameplay for everyone from this common habit. I only have a problem with hacks and dupers. I put up some ideas to show you people how to think around the situation. But it seems like you all don't want to do any thinking, very much.. ?? - and maybe the zone idea could add an interesting gameplay element, the pvp-ers and the squads would love it for sure ...if they noticed.. So - I'm cool. And I'm sure not the dumbest person on this forum, for once.

First of all, let's assume that loot hopping / ghosting are not desireable. At least with loot hopping there are ppl out there saying it's absolutely fine. Lol, hilarious, I am like Jexter in that way, so he is not alone. Now if I did some funny hopping thing or switched servers and for some reason want back to the one I just left 5 minutes ago, I would accept a timer to prevent ghosting. And other ppl wait, too. One of the most popular mods (I think) for Arma III is currently Battle Royale. First they wait for the server to fill up and then they have like another minute in the plane. I don't play a lot of different games, but I guess that's the same with a lot of matchmaking games. Also when I think about the loading times of all kinds of games, not naming titles, but we all know them, 3 minutes of loading screen AFTER starting the game to load up your char wherever you left off, maybe even when you change areas...we all suffered through that and did not throw all the games out. Yes timers suck, but at least with timers there could be sensible reason explained. Post 69 by Minion is a possible starting point, penalties and other factors still debable, but a start. I do not think I would have had a bigger timer penalty in months with that. The only ones I would have had is with logging out and back in on the same server. But if I'm away for a short moment, that time would already count into the timer, don't forget that. All in all I would have waited way less than with the current 30 second or 60 second timers. Now to the second part with the ingame sanctions. You proposed logout = suicide zones. I have no kids, no aggro wife and still I would have had several suicides (3 come to mind right now). I would gladly suffer timers instead. Spawning outside of those zones was also shot down and with good arguments. And what exactly are those zones? nwaf, balota, pavlovo base, zeleno, .... mysta? Where do you start, where do you end, and what about pvp outside of those zones? At least ghosting would still be a problem at other areas. Timers are not lack of design, they are an evil in absence of better solutions. Ingame sanctions sound great, but you cannot just say "we need ingame sanctions". Unless you are still convinced of no log out zones with suicide and don't think that other areas are no problem, then fine. But I think timers are a less destructive solution. This threat now has 8 pages and I can not see better proposals than timers. You cannot keep saying ingame solution over and over again as a solutions when no one can think of any. At least I can't. Suicide in hot zones? Teleportation outside of hot zones? Random spawning all over the map? Not being able to interact with the environment around your location for some time? For me all these things are less desireable than some few rule timer penalty system that (as mentioned above) would only impact normal players (no excessive hopping) in a minimal way. Still assuming that loot hopping and ghosting are bad here, and I can think of no other reasons to hop excessively. And don't start with server problems, that's hopefully only relevant now and not in 2 years. Ppl want loot and farm different servers by switching at interesting locations. Or they ghost and cheat in pvp that way. Now exactly what are fun gameplay methods to prevent ghosting or loot hopping? What new expectations and possibilites are you going to have while...using in-game sanction X and what is X? Eight pages of ppl discussing this and no solution in sight.

First of all I'm not sure if you understood my post, I was arguing that 5min were high, asked why such a high penalty should be there and said ppl who are unlucky with their isp would suffer less, if the penalty got lowered. Quote from EvilMinion's answer: "The problem is a form of ghosting/combat logging here. Your character will stay ingame for 30 seconds after logging out to avoid a cheap escape when facing danger. Now if you could log back instantly within those 30 seconds you could just take over your character who is still on the map and play on. However, logging in after those 30 seconds would make your character disappear for a few seconds. Now those seconds could create bad ingame situations. Consider a player running into a house combat logging. His character manages to disappear right before the enemy enters the room. The player logs back in while the enemy leaves the room checking elsewhere - and our combat logger can take him by surprise by coming out of a "secured" room. Thats just one way to deal with it - other options are a log in sound and the OPs suggestion that come with their own issues. Or you could change the 30 seconds for both "character stays ingame" and "free rejoining" - but that would also increase risk for everyone logging out for good." I accept that argument, even though less than 5 min should be enough as far as I'm concerned. But I see myself in Stary, my friend lying in some bush with his Mosin, two dudes come into town, my friend tells me to log out, my friend tells me to log in as soon as they got past my location, I get the drop on them with my friend helping. Now while I would not do that, ppl in general cheat in every imaginable way. This tactic is probably great for squads. Imo login sounds would be a better solution, but those seem unpopular. Now if you take a bathroom break and are afk for 1m30 or whatever and the penalty would be 3 minutes for example, I think that would be ok. Of course I'm assuming you are not sprinting to the bathroom, doing a high pressure draining and sprint back without washing your hands. A cigarette break should take longer than 5 mins, unless you power smoke, ... . What exactly are other reasons to exit the server and jump back immediatelly? And I'm assuming the timer penalty starts directly after logging out, so no logging out, coming back after 3 minutes and then getting the complete penalty additionally. Either way, those are small points that can be ballanced, we don't have to do it for the devs and they are not bound to the duration we come up with here. I just really think that a few simple rules with penalty timers could help reduce loot hopping immensely and in reality not implact normal players much, if at all. The "traditional" ghosting is easy to fix, no coming back in 30 minutes to a server after going to another one. Again 30min is an example. But there should be no reason to do something like that. And yes, if server restarts happen in that time, and you want to go back to your main server, that is an exception that can easily be handled. Such exceptions can always be handled. There should be a system that get's refined by looking at the results after some time. Well, and then we cannot forget those that say server hopping is an integral part of the game and must not get punished, it's the way this game should be played.

Combat logging is always going to be a thing unless they can lock you out from logging while other players are shooting or taking damage (just thowing out examples). Though I would like to hear how knowing your character did not die in the 30 it takes to log out would promote Ghosting.

Ditto, thanks for everything Jimmy! Let's not end it! Please talk with Tommy Geryon of 434 about setting up another hive! We only need 4 servers right now to support the current community. But I have no doubt that if we could somehow run a new hive well that we could rebuild the community in a big way. The more I think about it there are many benefits to running a private, public hive. First, we can control exactly how many total servers are available so that some individuals can't effectively pay-to-win by purchasing a server connected to hive that serves as a private loot farm (used to drive me nuts how many people would script in high end gear in their own server just to log into 3480 to deathmatch). It could reduce ghosting as well. Ghosting is predicated on an abundance of empty servers. For instance, if you're fighting in 434 in Elektro, you'd never log on 3480 to ghost because it is so busy and dangerous there. You'd never make it back to 434! . . . some random thoughts.

Alot of people don't like this because it promotes ghosting/combat logging.

The design of the "camo/military prison" building is very unbalanced favoring campers 100% especially on 3rd person servers. (on 1st P you can still hear the footsteps since the sound is different when they step inside the building) One guy can defend it perfectly from 2-3 guys. Tested it myself with AKM 75 drum mag when 2 guys tried to kill me (they knew I was there since they were direct chatting me telling me to surrender lol) I just 3rd personed the crap out of them RIP and o7 for being in the north btw. U literally just need to 3rd person the main door and it's gg unless they have explosive grenades wich are rare ofc, flashbangs won't work against a good opponent since you can just turn around your head and if you don't turn your head you might aswell spray your 75 drum down the main entrance until the flashbang effect goes off. First floor fell!? No problem! 2nd floor is, once again almost completely unnacessible if the defender has 5 IQ. You could just be on the area behind the stairs, behind the door of the loot room etc etc. You can't go in sprinting because of some random thingy that forces you to stop sprinting when entering a building or having a slight variation on the terrain. bug? I know this isn't going to be changed since it's work that is done and yeah, it would be a pain in the ass to remake it and even though it's alpha it's not going to happen as we have seen with other Arma3 bad features that stayed since the alpha days, I have the bad feeling this is how bohemia rolls, hope not. Forget about attacking it if you are a lone wolf, that is for sure. IMHO there needs to be windows to the 1st floor corridor and places with more altitude near those camo buildings to clear the buildings through the windows. Maybe a 2nd entrance could be a good idea too. Also it is really easy to combat log inside those since the attacker will be so afraid of going in and so will just keep the patience battle up. Seriously I feel so SO safe when I'm inside, my only fear being somebody ghosting to the top floor and coming down to kill me. I hope I made myself clear.

How about if you log for over lets say 15 mins, you come back in the same place you left off because you are more then likely not server hopping or ghosting. Else you log back in at a completely random spot in the map "x" amount of meters away from logout spot. so guess what you wanna jump to loot airfield to airfield....... start running!! nuff said. after the time it takes you to loot, log, log, run, loot i bet by the 2nd or 3rd time you get tired of running.

Admittedly you could make a private hive and let everyone in, but there are plenty of discussions about that topic on the forum. There are advantages and disadvantages, but for me the public hive seems more interesting, BUT loot hoppers definitely need to be discouraged. And a big ass time penalty against ghosting is definitely needed.

The central loot system will mean that you switch server and search that server for something. Sooo no time penalty there, only switching too often would trigger that. I doubt Dean had in mind that ppl loot an area, log, loot the area again, log, loot the area again, .... when he talked about that. It's not like the helicopter part you are looking for is on the nwaf ATC, it is somewhere. You will spend enough time on the server. Spawning outside is not clear, could mean outside the area or outside the house. I would like always putting ppl outside buildings, at least you would not be shot in the back in buildings you already cleared. A login sound would solve that, too, but seems to be not liked very much. Hopping servers to farm interesting locations on different servers again and again is as bad for the game as duping. The hopper gets loot faster by using the exploit of getting to interesting buildings faster. Additionally those that run around on the map like idiots suffer with interesting locations being empty. The best example are all the east towns that are totally unlooted but have looted police stations. That's not helpful for balancing. I really got to take up the noble trade of hopper hunting. Everyone can hop servers, fine. Everyone can dupe, too. No reason to do it. I really don't see how that can be taken into account in the game and treated fairly for all players. And please no proposals like when you switch servers, you cannot take anything in a vicinity of 1km or something like that. Depending on where you are, 1km might be a lot (if you are starving in the middle of Novo) or nothing at all (if you are hopping nwaf or chopper crash locations). Of course changing servers from time to time to meet up with ppl or some other reason is not evil. I like that idea very much, but I would like to see it in combination with general time penalties as described above. There simply is no reason to hop every 20 minutes. Especially switching and then going back being penalized with a long wait is the only useful idea I have ever heard against ghosting. As it comes up again and again, yes, we will get private hives (or slices with only one server in them). But why do we have a public hive at all? It would have been way easier for BI to make chars restricted to the server you play on. I'm not going into advantages and disadvantages here, that's a whole new discussion for a new threat. For me it's like we are discussing how to get rid of some pests in the basement and ppl responding with "no problem, we will nuke the city, pests gone." If private hives are the thing you want and are happy with, fine, they are coming. But there is still a public hive and just we are discussing suggestions helping there. And private slices (or what they are called) including more than one server will have the problem, too.

I don't think so, I've often seen this floated as a solution to server-hopping as we know it today. It really isn't. For one, they've said that the "loot management system" will manage specific high-end loot. Not necessarily every single piece of loot in the game. So, for the rest of the respawning loot... server hopping will still be as viable as it is today as a method of gearing (unless the bar is set insanely low as to what loot should be regulated). So long as there are fixed advantageous loot spawns (i.e. barracks, jails, military tents, etc.) server hopping will be advantageous if left unmitigated in and of itself. That and there's more to server hopping than just easier access to loot. Being able to get loot from one server, and shuffle it off to a low-population and/or empty server on the same hive is insanely detrimental to the entire concept of the "loot management system" encouraging cross-server mobility for the sake of community building. To say nothing of the imbalance inherent in being able to hoard potentially high-end loot on an empty server, away from the significantly increased risk of high population servers. Finally, there's also more to server hopping than just loot. So no matter what you do to the loot system itself (i.e. make it respawning, make it fixed on the hive, etc.) unmitigated server hopping will always contribute to unfair "ghosting" to gain a tactical advantage on an opponent by swapping servers, moving to a better position, then swapping back. Server hopping, like duping, is one of the few issues in DayZ which requires a direct solution. Rather than an ambient and subtle one (i.e. player spawns).

Private hives prevent server switching - so they won't solve the problem at all. Its simply a completely different "battlefield". The suggested solutions would not affect private hives/single server shards in regards of server-hopping but they would still improve the experience in terms of combat logging/ghosting. Consider the discussion focussed on public hives/multi server shards - private hives have different issues like limited capacity, capped rarity etc. I am no fan of no-logout zones in general as it restricts the players choice of how to play the game too much. It would barely help against server hopping (people would just need to add "move in" and "move out" to their server hopping routine) but impose some major limitations on casual play. Bad luck would have horrible results, real life circumstances would have horrible results, getting kicked would have horrible results etc. Also its no soultion to combat logging outside of those zones leading to perceived inconsistent combat mechanics. Being spawned outside is probably a better way how to deal with it (and abuse isn't as bad - you have to log out in a freaking danger zone after all) but it would still disrupt group play and punish excessive server hopping even less. The timer system is still my favorite (updated list): first switch free, further switches cost increasing waiting timeno penalty for switching when kicked or in case of server restart (up to 10min before - where joining the server should be impossible)if you switched to another server you have to wait 30 minutes before you can rejoin the old one (independent of switch penalty)if you log out and rejoin within 30 seconds you can play on with your character as if nothing happened (no switch penalty increase)if you log out and want to rejoin after 30 second have passed you have to wait 5 minutes (independent of switch penalty)switch time penalty applies after leaving rather than joining the next server - in case of rejoin it gets ignored, not increased and the rules above applywhen about to leave people will be warned and shown:their expected switch timetheir expected time to rejoin (all three variants)when stuck in waiting time players can see the reasons for the time penalty (list with timestamps)waiting time should be shown before joining a serverafter waiting time a "Ready" button appears - after pressing it you will spawn instantlythere should be either a log in sound or a few seconds wait before you can fully control your character

Well, I thought about this before posting. If the server restarts or if you are kicked (for any reason) you log in at the same place you were logged out. But - problem - if you disconnect with Alt-F1 kind of thing, I thought you must be respawned because : In the no-logout zone disconnecting and being respawned outside the zone would give you a safe passage out of any trouble. If you're trapped in a house, you disconnect and respawn outside the perimeter, you''re safe. And worse, if you are in a firefight anywhere in the zone, you can disconnect and be logged back in at a random location outside the firefight area, big ghosting advantage to you. So I figured, if you go into this 'no-logout' zone, you know the risks.. you have to run for maybe 1 minute to get outside the zone to log out - and sure in that 1 min all kinds of bad things can happen, zombies, ladders, players - but that's true anywhere.. the only difference here is you can't hide and logout right where you are.. and if you disconnect you are respawned. You know the risk when you enter the area. So maybe there's a power cut or your mum switches off the pc or the internet provider shuts down suddenly.. It's bad anywhere in DayZ to be suddenly cut off from the game, probably zombies will eat you,or a player will shoot you, or when you log back in you'll fall off the roof, whatever.. So in this zone do your best to not leave the game, because it's a No Excuses zone, and you know the cost before you go in. Anyway, I don't see any other way to work it. I liked the idea of no-logout zones because it's an in-game solution that becomes part of the gameplay, and can make the game more interesting. And this is my best estimate of how it could work. Yes, if you are disconnect from your end - for any reason - when you're in the zone you're dead.. but .. it's a serious place to be, you take the risk. If you can't log out at all in that zone it's going to be an intense place anyway.

That sounds awfully risky to do to me. First you have to time your logout so you don't get shot. Then you have to guess when to best log in again, ... but if it is a thing, ok. A lot of ppl log out and come back rather soon because of real life things. Maybe 3 minutes is ok here, but that is just finetuning. I like the idea of no logout zones, but instead of suicide I would use a random spawns outside the area. What about isp disconnects, other problems, game crashing, ... random spawn outside the zone make it random enough to be dangerous so reasonable ppl would prefer to leave regularly instead of disconnecting in a no log zone, at the same time unlucky guys or ppl that had to immediatelly leave because of real life are not punished too much. Having to leave the keyboard should not be a death sentence, think of parents, ... . I don't know how long this thread will continue, but I really think that making a few rules like the discussed ones can help tremindously to fight hopping and ghosting while not creating problems for normal players. Also global loot things like for helicopters are not a problem with such things, so arguing that Dean himself said ppl might have to search other servers for helicopter parts is out of the discussion. No one can tell me that he had loot hoppers and ghosters in mind when he said changing servers will be neccessary.

Every single MOBA player and everyone who likes to enjoy the favors of matchmaking. People are willing to wait if it makes the game more enjoyable. Definitely - players should know what is going on without asking around or reading guides. It might be reasonable to warn people right before they do something that might cause a penalty and give a detailed explanation for every single waiting time. The problem is a form of ghosting/combat logging here. Your character will stay ingame for 30 seconds after logging out to avoid a cheap escape when facing danger. Now if you could log back instantly within those 30 seconds you could just take over your character who is still on the map and play on. However, logging in after those 30 seconds would make your character disappear for a few seconds. Now those seconds could create bad ingame situations. Consider a player running into a house combat logging. His character manages to disappear right before the enemy enters the room. The player logs back in while the enemy leaves the room checking elsewhere - and our combat logger can take him by surprise by coming out of a "secured" room. Thats just one way to deal with it - other options are a log in sound and the OPs suggestion that come with their own issues. Or you could change the 30 seconds for both "character stays ingame" and "free rejoining" - but that would also increase risk for everyone logging out for good. Thats the core point. People using the mechanic would have no or only were short switch times while people abusing the mechanic would have to wait much longer. In this case you could even argue that it is no abuse anymore but a legit strategy that trades ingame risk for waiting times (which the current server hopping is not).

The timer should also contain an explanation describing why ppl get the penalty. Not just "You switched back to a previous server after going to another one for a short time", but explaining that ghosting is prevented with the timer. Of course you tell more ppl about ghosting who might never have even heard about it, but if the timer is there, it does not matter. Having the timer rules in a blackbox and ppl just getting anoying timers without knowing why is probably a big part of the rage against timers.

There's 2 issues. Server hoppers are upsetting the "economy" of the game and are looking to grab as much gear as possible which means less to go around - the loot table has finite objects in it. If a group of people hop ewvery server and grab all the M4's say - you'll never find one again. That's exaggerated of course but is good as an example. Ghosting - you're fighting this guy, the battle is going in your favour because you've made better tactical decisions. Suddenly you get shot in the back by the player! How so?? He went and logged into another server, moved to a postion behind you, logged back into your server and killed you.

So private shards are Vanilla servers without the fuckery that comes from server hopping, combat logging and ghosting ? Sounds good thats how all servers should have been.

Will Private Shards use the Central Loot system, or will they have a separate loot table just for that particular server? From my point of view, my private shard server would not be part of (not connect in anyway that would allow it to be used for loot farming or ghosting to) the public hive. So I would think/want/ask that the loot tables on my private server only apply to my server; i.e. proposed rare items like the SVD would have the same chance of spawning within my private shard as they do across the entire (central loot managed) public shard. I don't want to change the chance of one spawning on my server, but I also do not one not to spawn in my private shard due to there already being to many on the Public shard. I've not been able to find an answer to this on the forums. Perhaps a Dev could provide some insight (you know, if free to do so)?

Just make it so there's an incremental time between hops and a half hour wait to return to the server/s you were on. So first change is no wait. 2nd server 5 minutes 3rd server 10 minutes, etc Want to return to a server you were on you need to wait 30 minutes (to stop ghosting)

"trev186, on 15 Aug 2014 - 11:29 AM, said: not always practical... sometimes admins restart servers and dont bring them back up for a long time or changing servers to play with a friend Or your server is now full etc etc etc no sense punishing those who are not abusing the central hive just to stop server hoppers The instances where non server hoppers would be punished is negligible and a perfectly fine. This is only going to hurt server hoppers in reality and it should server hopping and ghosting is garbage and it should not be a major factor in gameplay." Well what if I log off and switch to a server for a valid reason and I log back in to find the game randomly though me in the middle of NWAF....how is that fair? I dont want to have logged off safely to find the game put me in the middle of a danger zone.

The instances where non server hoppers would be punished is negligible and a perfectly fine. This is only going to hurt server hoppers in reality and it should server hopping and ghosting is garbage and it should not be a major factor in gameplay. I am sorry but what ?