HFB, Vilayer, and DayZCommander need to knock this crap off..

[Inception. 9443]

I don't even play the other maps.

Chernarus <3

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Common sense would think that would be the best option. But here on the interwebz that is one thing in short order!! ;)

Common sense is not as common as people believe.

[humbleuk 76]

resigning other peoples work is lame - simple,

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Instead of quoting many msgs, i try to make some points, a sort of Q&A(it's my personal opinion of course...):

Q: Legally, can Vilayer using those maps (we're talking about the maps for now, not the mod) in that way?

A: Nope, they can't. They are using those maps for marketing purposes (if you browse the home page they are promoting their servers using these maps as a "feature"), this makes it a "commercial use".

Q: Is that bad?

A: For the map maker it is: if you make something for free, for the community, you would not like to see it used for commercial purpose, this is not only illegal, but it's demotivating.

Q: Is it that bad for the communit?

A: Today is not: as a normal user, you'll find the map, you'll play it. In the long term it will be, because the creator may not continue to create new contents for free, since his natural conclusion would be: "if that guy is making money using my work.. at this point i will make money myself!".

Q: What else is doing Vilayer that doesn't good?

A: it is modyfing the original mod, making it incompatible with the original version. If you analyze the original Panthera and the Vilayer Panthera mods, you'll see that most of the loot spawns coords matches perfectly: they literally RIPPED the work done by someone else, rebranded it, added something new (ie: some vehicles spawns) and made it "exclusive": so if you install the original mod you cannot join their server, but even worse: if you install their mod you cannot join the "original" server. Is this illegal? Probably not, it's against the community principle.

Q: So why blaming at DayZCommander?

A: DayZCommander decided to include Vilayers maps instead of the original ones, so it is promoting the above "activity" (in part illegal, in part just "evil"), it is also promoting the Vilayer server renting (there's a dedicate button on the main page of the app). Are DayzCommander devs doing anything illegal? Absolutely not, but (IMO) they doesn't deserve to be on the dayz webpage: they are promoting a commercial product (Vilayer hosting), pushing their "evil" (and in part illegal) politic.

Q: What's the solution?

A: it is VERY simple. Vilayer can continue to host anything they wants. They just need to ask for the PERMISSION to the map owner (if the map is used for commercial purpose: marketing) and they DOESN'T have to modify the work made by someone else: why making a "branded" version when there's already the mod available? So the community isn't fractured between two versions of the SAME map and you can join any server you want (you're not "forced" to go on the Vilayer network).

I will address this point by point, realize I am not talking shit or flaming just offering a different perspective.

1. Up for debate, they sell server hosting and provide files for publicly available and free content. Just because other server hosters have not made it easy on their client's does not mean this is illegal. It is on the edge though and is dangerously close to infringement, especially if he changed anything in the actual map file (not the mod files, that is fine) which could be fixed fairly quickly. You guys need to understand the entire legal profession is about splitting hairs, so while some of you (Rouge one makes a similar argument) think it sounds similar it is not.

2. Do not really disagree except for the illegal part.

3. If you are good at making maps you should look to monetize that. What is so wrong with making money, we all have to do it and it sounds like Icebreaker (I am sure I misspelled this) is good at what he does and should use these awesome maps to springboard into a paid position or to do freelance work for pay. There is still the incentive for those breaking in to make free maps, but when you are good at what you do you should probably be charging anyways. Gamers are not charity cases.

4. Mod is open to the community at this point so this will continue to happen. If you have no problem with DayZ DIAF or Survive Dayz mod then this should not be an issue either. I do agree that I would like to see it be cross compatible and that is somewhat of a problem.

5. Dayz commander definitely is not legally responsible and beyond that they are an excellent tool for those who are not that PC savvy. This is an opinion from both of us but I definitely disagree with your position here.

6. Somewhat agreed, they should ask permission and not because they necessarily have to but because it would be the right thing to do.

Man this thread is raising my rage levels to dangerous levels, attacking a great tool like Dayz commander because they have the tiniest link for server hosting by Vilayer is crazy stupid. This right here is why we can not have nice things. That is it, I am going to WarZ where everyone is perfectly fine with stealing ideas (kidding).

[avid_gamer 132]

The big moral issue is DayZ Panthera was released free to the public weeks before the release of the Vilayer version. But instead of using that, they took the code and released there own version, ensureing that everyone had to play on only there servers.

If they used the version that was released first on Tunggle, there version would be compatible with all the other private hives.

Your getting boring now

So you mean the other 2 servers... ?

Yes thats right folks... 2 servers were running this map prior to ViLayer releasing it to the community in a version that connects to Vilayers hive.

And you can play on any HIVE any MAP ANY MOD you wish..nobody if forcing anyone to do anything.

AND LOOK... THE SAME 2 ARE STILL RUNNING IT. Circled in RED

Edited October 11, 2012 by Leadcatcher22

[Skat3rat 1633]

Flame on boys Because no one did anything wrong... Nice try but this is nothing but a spam topic for the butt hurt people ....

Vilayer stole someone's work and more or less claimed it as their own. They did do something wrong...

[avid_gamer 132]

No one stole anything... The maps are there for anyone to download... the DayZ code is there from Rocket...

By your way of thinking... any other hive that is hosting any other map is stealing others work and calling it their own?

[urbanfox 116]

So you mean the other 2 servers... ?

Yes thats right folks... 2 servers were running this map prior to ViLayer releasing it to the community in a version that connects to Vilayers hive.

And you can play on any HIVE any MAP ANY MOD you wish..nobody if forcing anyone to do anything.

AND LOOK... THE SAME 2 ARE STILL RUNNING IT. Circled in RED

I'm not taking sides... but you do realize that many more servers are running it, right? DayZ Commander isn't showing them.........

[humbleuk 76]

no.. you do not re-sign mods under your own keys which makes other versions not work.

The creator releases public keys to ensure EVERYONE plays the correct version.

You don't just make your own keys up.

IT's ok vilayer admits they are wrong now, and apologies are being said already.

keep up with the thread that matters: http://forums.bistud...-Lingor/page242

dayzcommander shows only the modified one, which has been re-signed, which is not how it should of been.

If rocket saw this post, he would agree stealing and resigning mods as your own is just a big NO.

Edited October 11, 2012 by MessHall

[puppetworx 474]

What Vilayer is doing may be bogus but rather then calling for a boycott of DayZ Commander how about calling for a boycott of Vilayer and requesting that the dev team remove Vilayer from the server hosting pool?

[Audio Rejectz 144]

I'm not taking sides... but you do realize that many more servers are running it, right? DayZ Commander isn't showing them.........

Exactly, i might be wrong but i can see a WHOLE lot more than 2 ( click the image to see, dont know why theres a big white box lol )

Edited October 11, 2012 by Audio Rejectz

[Legacy (DayZ) 1091]

I like how I've only used it once, and thats because I accidentaly something before. I've been using the steam with launch options ever since.

[/Notlazy]

[DemonGroover 8836]

Who 'owns' the Lingor, Panthera etc code and who 'owns' the DayZ code?

These are the only relevant questions. Rocket has pretty much allowed his code to be used and modified, so the only question remains is who 'owns' the maps? I believe it is Icebreakr - so the only issue is what he thinks of it all.

And i dont think he is happy for someone to be making money off his work.

[Audio Rejectz 144]

So Lee Vilayer has agreed to release all the server side code and keys, http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?100135-Jungle-Wars-Island-of-Lingor/page243

Though this dosnt amend the fact he made MrSherenai's public release obsolete. i'd take this as a positive step at making sure this dosnt happen again.

Community win!!

Edited October 11, 2012 by Audio Rejectz

[avid_gamer 132]

Probably due to not looking at empty server... Perhaps that is a factor... the other version that is out might not be a good... or have differences that cause players not to populate them.

Never played that version... But i know the way it is setup in the one hosted on ViLayer is being enjoyed by a very many players.

[SmashT 10907]

So Lee Vilayer has agreed to release all the server side code and keys, http://forums.bistud...-Lingor/page243

Though this dosnt amend the fact he made MrSherenai's public release obsolete. i'd take this as a positive step at making sure this dosnt happen again.

Community win!!

I'm hoping they ditch their Vilayer version and just use the already existing (arguably better) one like every other server rather then having two different versions floating around and causing confusion.

Edited October 11, 2012 by smasht_AU

[--------------- 24]

The only one spamming useless comments are you costantly defending vilayer for some unknown reason and +1 every post that's on vilayer side.

Go on little man, the vilayer pay check is about to happen soon!

Flame on Kid

[Audio Rejectz 144]

I'm hoping they ditch their version and just use the already existing (arguably better) one like every other server rather then having two different versions floating around.

Cant agree more! We were running Panthera 1.3 until recently. It was to much of a pain trying to explain to people they needed a different Panthera release, so we removed it.

They should of sacked there coder when you could hear the sea and forest sounds from cherno in there Takistan map lol

Edited October 11, 2012 by Audio Rejectz

[Mr. Cox 0]

Is´nt DotJosh (i think thats his name), the creator of dayz commander, on these Forums?

I think I saw a few posts made by him...

would be great if he came up and told us his side of the story...

I used six first, then switched to dayz commander since i think it´s a good piece of software.

I did´nt know about the copyright issues with the other maps, since i don´t play other maps than chernaurus.

sure does not seem right... but what are good alternatives for dayZ commander? six and the internal gamespy don´t do the trick imho.

take care and someone please give me a blood transfusion ;)

-

Mr. Cox

[klesh 2423]

Is´nt DotJosh (i think thats his name), the creator of dayz commander, on these Forums?

I think I saw a few posts made by him...

would be great if he came up and told us his side of the story...

Yes, that is him, and he's already posted several times in this very thread.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/user/45214-dotjosh/

Edited October 11, 2012 by klesh

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Some questions that would be nice to have answered.. and apparently they have been answered:

- Why releasing those mods "repacked" (ie: Panthera) when they could have relased the "original" mod. This has been replied: it was a matter of "incompetence" (i'm not being offensive here, i mean that the owner/hoster didn't know about the map keys).

- DayCommander is completely "free" and driven by the community or is it financed (someway) by Vilayer now? It would be nice to know (publically).

==========

Anyway it seems that they understood the mistake now.. and they are gonna ask for the permission to the map owners (for the commercial usage); and they are going to use the public versions, without creating multiple instances of the same mod (ie: using the original Panthera...), so you don't have to browse between different mods to join that particular server.

[avid_gamer 132]

They are using the ORIGINAL Panthera. Directly donloaded from Armaholic site...

The fact that DayZ Planet coded the dayz part differently than whoever put that other one up makes no difference.

People can play whatever version they want... The fact that he posted his in some obscure site like tunngle... yes it is obscure.. otherwise more people would use it, is not the fault of a hosting company for taking what was offered to them to host for the community and making it available for the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE PLAYING DAYZ... yes.. go count... there are more players on ViLayer servers than any other. This is due to the Customer support they offer the customer... the great performance that their servers give to the commnuity... and the amount of content that they have brought to the DayZ Community as well.

So the 4 guys here that are bashing ViLayer are more than likely in the same clan and were butthurt when the servers they were hosting were dead... now they want to blame ViLayer.

If they really want to do what is best for the community.. they would take down the map that 50 people are playing and support the one that hundreds and hundreds are playing right now as i type this.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

They are using the ORIGINAL Panthera.

They re-signed the map and the mod.. otherwise this thread wouldn't exists at all (like it didn't existed before.. with Lingor in example).

Stop posting nosense... and if you're trolling, you're bad at it.

[Audio Rejectz 144]

Wow, leadcatcher is like a broken record.

Right, listen to this and please try and get it into that lump on your neck.

This whole topic is nothing to do with people being unhappy at there being 2 versions, obviously people have a choice.

It's aimed at the fact that DayZ Panthera was released 2 weeks prior to vilayers version. Then, you and them took that version, stole the loot spawn codes from it ( which is undeniable, the pictures prove it ) and then re signed the server keys. So that the version Vilayer release would only be comparable with there servers.

Now if your following lee's posts in the Bohemia forums, you will see he has accepted it was a mistake on his part.

Now do us all a favour, go away, stop stealing people's codes and maybe learn to do it yourself

[mrsherenai 64]

Okay okay dudes,

something big is rolling here and it's definetly going the wrong way! Let me tell you something about DayZ Panthera/Vilayer/DayZ Commander and my view of this and why this discussion started. I noticed that many people out there are discussing what is not bad but many facts are forgotten and I dont want to see wrong stuff about me/the conflict used as arguments.

Let me clear this first. I neither want DayzCommander to be removed, nor do I want Vilayer to be sued or to be gone. Although I personaly dont like their practice many customers are happy with them and they do a good job with hosting servers. Never the less there is stuff I get upset with and I will tell you what it is.

I made the Dayz Panther port that was/is released on Tunngle at 28th of September. The port featured newly determined lootspawns for all custom buildings that are introduced by Panthera, and many small changes that made the map work with vanilla Dayz without changing too much of the gameplay. For example adding the ability to refuel your jerry can at fuelstations while their ability to automaticly refuel vehicles is removed. It became quite popular not only for the clients but for servers too. The serverfiles count over 200 dowloads and the clientfiles over 2500, not counting mirrors of communitys that host my files. It took me like three days to figure out how the basics work, what I have to change and how to make dayz work on Panthera Island. When Panthera by Vilayer was released I was just snoopy and wanted to find out what they did and stuff. I didnt bother about the second version in the first time because in my opinion a little competition is not bad to give some extra motivation.

Up to that point everything was allright. But I started to get mad when things started to be unfair. So here are the facts that bothered me:

-The denial of support for the community version of DayzPanthera from Dayz Commander:

I understand that not every mod/map can be added to the tool. But this denial made me mad because it smelled kinda fishy. I have to admitt that I never thought about bringing my version to DayZ Commander before I heared of Vilayers version going life there because I and my mates dont use it. It was just not in my mind. So in the end I may just have been too late and I would have been okay with it. But I got denied because there were not enough servers running the mod. I can of course not address as many servers in such a short timespan then vilayer does due to obvious reasons. Never the less at the moment DayZ Panther went life on vilayer I'm pretty sure that there have not been more vilayer servers then those that use mine. In the end its the decision of the creator of Dayz Commander. But the fact that he seems to work closely with vilayer makes all of this smell a little fishy to me.

-Incompatibility:

When Dayz by Vilayer went life the problems started for many server hosts that already hosted the community version of panthera. Clients couldnt connect because they downloaded the Vilayer Panthera version thats not compatible. This in addition to the fact that over half a million (holy fuck that are many people) downloaded and propably use Dayz Commander will result in the problem that the community version will be barely used. So Community Hive Servers will stay empty. The problem is that those guys who hosted the community version have no chance to host the vilayer version to gain some players again. What leads me to the next point.

-Restricting access:

As mentioned above, the files have not been availiable for other server hosts. Of course its their choice, but they gain a financial advantage out of it because they sell those files with their servers.

-Copyright?!

This points more in the direction of the Island itself then the modified files to make it dayz compatible. Vilayer repacked the Island in one package and removed anything that leads to the original author of the map. Of course this does not directly involve me, never the less it upsets me because I know how much work has to be done to create a mod, not even talking about a whole island. For me its more a question of respect then copyright. And everyone should face this question when using stuff made for games by the community. Well, MrSherenai, you are a fucking idiot, youraped others work too. Basicaly, yes, you are right when you say so and it took me a long long time to get over my ego and start hosting on a private server instead of official. But I did it and started making stuff to improve the Dayz experience. The difference is that I always give the credit to the authors. May it be Rocket for Dayz or IceBreakr for Panthera Island.

-Code stealing(Not the perfect words but my lack of english skills did not offer a better title)

Hmm, on the one hand I feel a little childish when I point this out but on the other hand it bothers me when I see it in addition to all the other stuff that went wrong here. So, the main new feature with my version of Dayz Panthera was the lootspots for every new building. Let me introduce you in how loot is spawned in Dayz. When the conditions to spawn loot are matched the loot will be spawned inside the buildings with the help of an offset to the building position itself. This means when you want to add new lootspots you have grab the coordinates of a position inside the building relative to the buildings position itself. I did this for all the Panthera buildings. When I decompiled the vilayer code I had to notice that the positions seem to match. Coincedents? No, clearly a no no. Let me tell you why. I made like 60 lootspots. Every lootspot has a x,y,z - axis coordinate and an accuracy of over one milimeter. Well, all these lootspots matched in the two ports. This and the fact that I didnt use any public availiable script that automaticly calculates them but made my own leads to copy&paste by Vilayer.

What makes me sad about this is that all this discussions are not necessary at all. Vilayer could have used the already existing port, it would have been okay for me. It was build and ment for the community and this includes everyone that plays Dayz. No matter which hosting company he rents his server off. It would have been even less work for them. They could of course make their own but then under the same conditions everyone makes a mod in the arma2 community. I dont want to say that my port is the ultima ratio. But for me it looks like they dont want somethign everyone can have, they use their monopol to spread their own stuff and make people bound to their services. And again I clearly dont want them to be removed or something, all I did was bringin my anger to their and the communitys attention. With success. That IceBreakr got involved was just a matter of time but the actions he takes are totaly independent from my point. Everything he does is related to his Island. About Dayz Commander, well its a great tool that helped many players to play this game, of all those that just want to consume (not ment to be negative in this case) because arma2 can be confusing sometimes.

Never the less, taking others hard work and releasing it under new name is not okay in my opintion. It always suggests that they did all of it on their own, and thats definetly not true.

For the future I hope that this kind of problems may not arise again. They are the result of lack of communication and care taken of each other. We all should just have one goal. Enlarge the experience of this great modification and the great Arma series. Currently I'm working on another big project. It will be released at the same place and under the same conditions DayZ Panthera is released. Maybe Vilayer are interested in cooperation on this and we work hand in hand to bring it to the attention of the players. One could learn much of each other. I'm open for it as Teamwork is always the way to go. They are free to contact me about it. If not its okay for me too as long as this bullshit does not repeat itself.

One last word. This are facts and my personal feelings about it. You dont like them? Its okay, but dont even bother to reply and bash me, I wont discuss with you. I just want to point out whats going on here before people get a wrong picture of the situation. Many discussions are going on here and on reddit and wherever not but not everything is true. I wont discuss my feelings of this. This was only ment to inform you. I personaly would love to see nobody answering at all but just reading the wall of text and keeping it in mind. But I fear it wont take long for the first troll :/. Meh.

Edited October 11, 2012 by MrSherenai