There should be no high grade weapons in standalone

[andrewmont 91]

I think more low grade weapons need to be added and they need to be the weapons most people will have and the ones that are common. Military grade weapons shouldn't be removed however but should be a lot rarer and in harder to reach places. If this game is aiming for realism then make it realistically difficult to find them. I don't know how military bases work/store munitions but I'm sure that Rocket does and he should put that knowledge to some use for the standalone. I think the problem is that if a zombie apocalypse did happen then the military would be out fighting so it's not unrealistic that you should come across their weapons where there is a military presence. Just perhaps make the highest grade and rarest weapons hardest to get (ie: AS50)

Just an idea: You've got a military base, weapons are locked away and the only way to obtain the code to open the door to get to it is by a random loot drop on a military zombie and even then it should perhaps only unlock one of many doors. Whereas you may find assault rifles easily - behind these doors should be the best of the best ie: guns with scopes, silencers, high powered rifles. etc... This way plenty of people will get a basic assault rifle but then getting to these better weapons will give you upgraded versions and occasionally something better.

[Johney 1]

bleh just dont go where people is sniping. or dont crawl when a sniper shoot at you. or stop moving.. I see this a LOT of time. why everybody stay in elektro / cherno . and always go in the firestation near the factory in elektro?cuz THEY ARE STUPID after that they crying because they lose stuff.. lol and when they get kill 2 or 3 time they go on forum to complaint

[shagohad 124]

The problem is not with the tier of weapon but with a sort of general innaccuracy in things. For example if I was to pick up a 50 caliber rifle I would most likely have a hard time operating it and being at all accurate. I would also be quite if exhausted if I was to carry said sniper rifle as well as a mk48 and neccessary supplies/backpack and run everywhere

I think you need to look at balance more holistically for it to be enjoyably integrated into DayZ

I think rocket is working towards this, he talks about things like batteries for weapons optics and stuff like that, i think the balance will be more detailed then range/damage/recoil, all of which are failry shallow and dont give a lot of variety.

I would enjoy more descion making. Such as is this AS50 really useful to me? as I would have to sacrifice significant gear/energy to carry it, it will slow me down, attract zombies from much farther, be harder to fire in close quarters combat.

Thats why I really dislike the current pistol nerf. It used to be that I would never take military pistols, I could one shot zombies with a colt, this meant I would on average take less damage. They removed that aspect and now the guns are averaged out, I might as well carry a high capacity pistol and take headshots, it made it a little more shallow.

I want descions to be tougher with weapons rather than just a linear progression from not good gun-to better-to best

:)

[Inception. 9443]

Where's the end-game content, weapon side?

"Ooh look, a winchester! This is amazing end-game, it took me SOOOO long to find such a rare weapon!"

[bazbake 456]

Typical Zombie horror situation:

Sloan

"Who's been stealing all our food!"

Heidecker

"You're paranoid."

Sloan

[Draws .45.]

"I know it was you, Heidecker."

Heidecker

"No! What are you going to do with that!"

Sloan fires.

Heidecker

"Nooo!"

Sloan fires again.

Heidecker

"Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!"

Sloan fires again. And again. A couple more times.

Heidecker

"NOOOOOO!!!!!

Sloan fires again and again.

Heidecker

"Noooo..."

Sloan leaves him to bleed to death in the corner.

Heidecker

"Kafff...kaff...kaff. You bastard..."

(This game really captures the tension of the Zombie Apocalypse.)

Edited September 19, 2012 by BazBake

[chris p. bacon 182]

I think the pistol-only-no-primary-weapon age should last longer. A civilian would sooner have a pistol in his or her home rather than a Lee Enfield battle rifle. However, thermal weapons should be present somehow in the game. Snipers hidden in the brush need to be found somehow. Maybe some kind of thermal goggle that is just as rare as the regular night vision goggle? One extremely rare gun with a thermal scope?

[Norse 3]

Arguments can be made that in the mod, were it not for scripting and duping that sniper rifles like the AS50 and M107 would be 'ok'.

Being incredibly rare they wouldn't be as much of an issue.

However, I don't see these weapons (or many of the high grade weapons, like the SAW etc) as 'fitting' with DayZ in any way whatsoever.

Thermal scoped weapons? You're fucking trolling me.

Of course you may disagree, it is satisfying to get a 1 hit kill, and somewhat necessary considering how easy it is to combat log.

But assuming ALL these problems are fixed, I really think most weapons need to be removed from DayZ entirely.

In every zombie film I've ever seen, people at most have an M16 or perhaps a low caliber hunting rifle, but mainly it's shotguns and pistols.

THAT is what DayZ should be, most players should have pistols and shotguns.

That'd really add to the immersion factor too, focusing more on survival again and less on COD style rambo killing (though, there's nothing wrong with rambo killing).

I really think that'd improve the quality of PvP combat too, fights would be infinitely more fun with shotguns and assault rifles, taking place at between 50-500 meters, instead of rampant sniper camping and insane machine gun spraying.

It'd be much more satisfying if finding an Ak74 was a 'big deal' and we were hauled up in our barricaded houses exchanging Winchester rounds and M9 slugs with another group of players.

Actually 'fighting' over supplies instead of fighting to up our frag count.

Some people may disagree, but I just think combat in DayZ could be much more challenging and 'realistic' to the genre than it is at the moment.

I have no problem with high end assault weapons. But the M107 and AS50 should be removed. It takes absolutely NO skill to use them. especially if you have a rangefinder. 1 shot hit the guy in the toe and he is dead. the snipers without zeroing actually requires you to have some skill.

[FM_Bomb_Saw 3]

Before all the .50 cal snipers got super duped... I found a little bit of a hard time finding my m107... When I found it, I was grabbing any ammo that I could for it. I had about 7 mags for it, I didn't really want to do PVP... But it was more of a "I have it so I can have it" thing... Sadly, the game glitched and I lost all of my stuff, including my alice pack... I had my ghillie suit and stats... just no items. It kinda sucked.. and I still haven't found my m107 again..

[Estyles 14]

Not sure how many people are into firearms irl but honestly military grade rifles are pretty easy to come by domestically albeit semi auto only. Same with scopes as almost any decent hunting rifle comes with one.

The reality of firearms in today's society says we should easily find weaponry of all types, however for things like .50 call rifles you cannot fire them standing with any accuracy so this should translate to the game. Long distance shots need to be taken prone simple as that. Change this aspect of game play and balance would be found a lot more easily than expected especially if a fatigue system was in place

Also if any time had passed since the out break and over running of society ammunition would be somewhat dried up in my view so make the gun easy to find but the ammunition scarce.

Just my 2 cents.

[RogueOne 112]

If anything make the sniper rifles require more skill to use. No point and shoot BS.

[aHzdaNny 49]

.50 CAL snipers are anti-material weapons created with the intent of piercing through heavily armored or fortified vehicles and buildings. Not a survivor dressed in shit he found at a local clothing store. Why the AS50 and M107 were even put in DayZ to begin with is beyond me.

Edited September 20, 2012 by aHzdaNny

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

Whoa the new boss is exactly the same as the old boss. New and exciting stuff!

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/92918-high-end-loot-should-not-exist-in-dayz/

I chalk these type threads into the "I don't like and you are bad if you do" category. Just as the Huey has no place in DayZ? Underground bases shouldn't be added, since not many people would be able to build them. I don't disagree the high end gear should be rare (not impossible) to obtain. But once again I hope Rocket does what he feels is best for the game. Players have no place in the design of the game. I kinda wish he'd flip all of us on end and make it take place in the 18th century... yeah i said it! Black powder and arrows there is you high end gear! ;)

[tom.dullnig@gmx.net 16]

I think the real issue behind the perceived OP high-end military weaponry is not that you can find (and thus replicate) them easyly, it's the way they are employed. You have to take into account that this Cherno Map is a damn ex-warzone (for those of you that haven't played ArmA 2 vanilla) and of course there's going to be a lot of shit around that is considered rare in peacetime. After all, don't you think the big brass wouldn't throw in anything they have at their disposal to stop an outbreak like that?

Of course, military grade weaponry needs to be put in proportion to the size of the armed force in the region and then balanced out with what you would find in a typical eastern european country: sidearms (lots of them) and hunting rifles with the odd semi-automatic rifle thrown in.

Now to the fun part.

Matter of fact, I am convinced that half of the regular population wouldn't even be able to handle military grade equipment like the one found ingame properly - read: in a manner that does more damage down range than to themselves - let alone maintain it. Weapons like the AS50 or M107 are expensive high-precision equipment for TRAINED professionals, not Joe Blow and his a-hole cousin. No matter how big your ego or how desperate the situation is, if you haven't received proper training these guns will either hurt you or not work at all when handled improperly.

Add in realistic ballistics and the 1337-ass cherno snipers are in a world of hurt. Try shooting in crosswind at the ranges we do in Dayz in real life. Look at what ACE is doing with weapon ballistics for example. There is a reason after all why so few people in any army across the world are trained marksmen. Simply because it's a fucking hard job to learn and be good enough to be "productive" (as in: worth the training).

Furthermore, in a world where you have to constantly be aware of hydration and nutrition, do you really think you would carry around a 27lbs, 54'' (that's the rl size of an AS50 fyi) anti-materiel rifle and the ammo for it or do you rather try to travel with what you need? Limit people to one primary and one secondary. That way people actually are forced to work together a bit more to have a better chance of survival.

That is actually where the decision making process that this game is about comes into play again. Do you really need a scoped rifle that you can't hit shit with in the first place most of the time or do you rather adapt your playstyle and go with something that actually can be useful to you for self-defence and hunting - something that guarantees you success at a much higher rate?

(TL;DR)There's nothing wrong with having a wide-range of weaponry in game, matter of fact the more weapon-porn the better as it adds replayability to a game. The mechanic itself is good, it's just the way it's implemented that is broken.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Panther

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

I think the real issue behind the perceived OP high-end military weaponry is not that you can find (and thus replicate) them easyly, it's the way they are employed. You have to take into account that this Cherno Map is a damn ex-warzone (for those of you that haven't played ArmA 2 vanilla) and of course there's going to be a lot of shit around that is considered rare in peacetime. After all, don't you think the big brass wouldn't throw in anything they have at their disposal to stop an outbreak like that?

Of course, military grade weaponry needs to be put in proportion to the size of the armed force in the region and then balanced out with what you would find in a typical eastern european country: sidearms (lots of them) and hunting rifles with the odd semi-automatic rifle thrown in.

Now to the fun part.

Matter of fact, I am convinced that half of the regular population wouldn't even be able to handle military grade equipment like the one found ingame properly - read: in a manner that does more damage down range than to themselves - let alone maintain it. Weapons like the AS50 or M107 are expensive high-precision equipment for TRAINED professionals, not Joe Blow and his a-hole cousin. No matter how big your ego or how desperate the situation is, if you haven't received proper training these guns will either hurt you or not work at all when handled improperly.

Add in realistic ballistics and the 1337-ass cherno snipers are in a world of hurt. Try shooting in crosswind at the ranges we do in Dayz in real life. Look at what ACE is doing with weapon ballistics for example. There is a reason after all why so few people in any army across the world are trained marksmen. Simply because it's a fucking hard job to learn and be good enough to be "productive" (as in: worth the training).

Furthermore, in a world where you have to constantly be aware of hydration and nutrition, do you really think you would carry around a 27lbs, 54'' (that's the rl size of an AS50 fyi) anti-materiel rifle and the ammo for it or do you rather try to travel with what you need? Limit people to one primary and one secondary. That way people actually are forced to work together a bit more to have a better chance of survival.

That is actually where the decision making process that this game is about comes into play again. Do you really need a scoped rifle that you can't hit shit with in the first place most of the time or do you rather adapt your playstyle and go with something that actually can be useful to you for self-defence and hunting - something that guarantees you success at a much higher rate?

(TL;DR)There's nothing wrong with having a wide-range of weaponry in game, matter of fact the more weapon-porn the better as it adds replayability to a game. The mechanic itself is good, it's just the way it's implemented that is broken.

Realism is good but in reality anyone can become a good shot. If there was a way to put a learning curve on each weapon you pick up in game, you would have to have experience (multiple rounds fired) before shooting them with any accuracy. The rare/military weapons would require more then the civilian weapons. Make the player invest time/ammo into become proficient. Hell I'd like to see this of all "skills" in DayZ honestly. Try to fix a tire on a car and fail the first few attempts, then once learned you can do it every time. Would be an interesting situation to see play out.

disclaimer* I am not saying i want Rocket to add this system! Just a thought I had reading your comment.

[ZomboWTF 527]

I totally agree with this, add way more melee weapons, add more crude guns, and remove most of the high end ones

finding a hunting rifle should be something to appreciate, since having the range advantage on someone means victory almost every time

Finding a M107 or another one-shot gun should be extremely rare, also finding silenced ranged weapons should be rarer, like the M4 SD and the Bizon (which currently lies at every crashed heli)

I know most people think "Darn, i really want that M107 to shoot people in the face with from 900 meters", but that actually makes the game way less fun

Making the combat more close-ranged due to crude weapons will result in a way better experience; Combat will be much more personal, you might find yourself in shouting range before you are in an effective shooting range

And additionally, the overall accuracy should be way less, the characters we are playing in arma 2: Dayz mod are military and trained soldiers, a normal person would have real trouble hitting someone at over 50 meters with a pistol and over 200 with a rifle

I think by making the combat more close-quraters and less "Who the hell shot me?" will bring back the old days banditry, pointing a gun on someone and threatening to kill them instead of just looting their bodies

[GulpinGulpin 40]

I can understand the removal of .50 cals but that's it

Everything else is fine

[big_t 66]

I totally agree with the OP. Remove those crazy guns. Especially thermal scopes.

Gun fights with more realistically obtained weapons are more fun anyway.

Like a large list of hunting rifles and handguns. Things you would actually find lying around. Maybe some regular police force weapons (very rare).

[big_t 66]

Edit: Also handguns should do decent damage at close range. Even little 9mm and such. Ever been shot 3 times in the chest with a 9.22mm and shake it off Dayz style? Not realistic.

[LawsOfFire 21]

well the problem is not that they are in the game. the problem is that script-kiddies and dupers make the weapon a whole lot more common. an as50 spawn with 0,02% on helicrash. and only 12 helichrash and 10 lots spots per heli (i think). that means that there is 0,2% per heli of AS50 spawn. that means that there are 2,5% chance of there being an AS50 on the map at anytime.

Edited September 20, 2012 by LawsOfFire

[hawken 22]

Yes there should, but they should very very hard to acquire.

[nsix 6]

SIGNED!

This shit isn't COD.

Yeah some people in middle America (and the military) hav pwnij firearms, but not the majority. Regardless, sticking with more mainstream firearms adds to the intensity of the game. Needing to get closer for the kill. Adding to the mayhem requiring you to further out smarten your enemy. Relying less on the weapon and more on your own strategy and intellect.

Edited September 20, 2012 by sixers

[team_player 42]

Everyone should stop being a whiny bunch okay, all that needs to be done is a higher drop rate and more military bases. Problem fixed.

Now drop down before I shoot you in da head

[narsil1 24]

Just a minor note but the ACR program ended without result. There's a rifle called the ACR, but it hasn't seen widespread deployment with any military.

Thanks for the note. :)

But I think you got what I was getting at. :thumbsup:

[hombrecz 832]

It's kinda sad and funny that most time you are sniped it is with AS50.

I would love to see more CZ550 snipers instead of bushwookies with .50 cal and bag full of ammunition.

But in the end this debate is a bit pointless since there are zillions of dupers & scripters.

Only in Dayz standalone will we truly see what DayZ is all about, what weapons are really rare and such.

I have high hopes for standalone, Rocket, do not fail us!!!

edit: Rocket has written that he is finishing transfer of mod data to the standalone, that surely must be good sign!

edit2: I made short (around 4 mins) vid where bandit demonstrates how AS50 can be used almost as assault rifle in close combat, feels tad weird

Edited September 20, 2012 by Hombre

[hawc 63]

I think we should wait for the alpha to see how the new inventory will be implemented. Hopefully it will be weight-based so big guns like the .50 cals and saw guns will be balanced by less inventory space or slower running speed.

Also i hope they fix the "i can have a long heavy rifle in my tiny alice pack" problem. If you can't have an AR as backup, i'm sure less people will have snipers other than groups.