Yay, Bandit and Hero identifiers are coming in

[Voxgizer 22]

Heroes should get a clown costume with red hair.

And bandits can be bright pink.

[fish911503 136]

When shitty little children play in the sandbox......said shitty little children need to be dealt with. Thus affecting ALL the little childrens sandbox playtime. If Rocket wants to move units...he needs to deal with the shitty little children.

[denkart 198]

I don't think this will really work. Even if you wanted to play as a hero, it'd be extremely hard and even impossible at times. If getting murders causes you to become a bandit, what is a hero suppose to do when he's attacked by a freshly spawned survivor that just found his first gun? The guy isn't a bandit yet, but he's still attacking you and if you return fire then you become the bandit. That leaves two options if you want to remain a hero, you either alt f4 or you try to run and risk getting shot in the ass while running, but you can't fight back in this particular situation.

[SmashT 10907]

I'm so happy with this change, going to be a bandit hunter.

[SmashT 10907]

I don't think this will really work. Even if you wanted to play as a hero, it'd be extremely hard and even impossible at times. If getting murders causes you to become a bandit, what is a hero suppose to do when he's attacked by a freshly spawned survivor that just found his first gun? The guy isn't a bandit yet, but he's still attacking you and if you return fire then you become the bandit. That leaves two options if you want to remain a hero, you either alt f4 or you try to run and risk getting shot in the ass while running, but you can't fight back in this particular situation.

I assumed killing a single survivor wouldn't effect your overall humanity a great deal, unless you kept doing it without adding any positive humanity points to counter it.

[slyder73 94]

I'd stop being a bandit if this would play once I became a hero.

No....

[Core (DayZ) 3]

I would say the hero skin only goes to those who rack up bandit kills... Since we could then tell who is a bandit. Much easier.

I agree.

[fish911503 136]

I don't think this will really work. Even if you wanted to play as a hero, it'd be extremely hard and even impossible at times. If getting murders causes you to become a bandit, what is a hero suppose to do when he's attacked by a freshly spawned survivor that just found his first gun? The guy isn't a bandit yet, but he's still attacking you and if you return fire then you become the bandit. That leaves two options if you want to remain a hero, you either alt f4 or you try to run and risk getting shot in the ass while running, but you can't fight back in this particular situation.

I guess you haven't noticed that killing a player who shot at you first doesnt count as a murder...its a bandit kill. Maybe 'cause you always shoot first? Edited August 3, 2012 by playZ

[Daldrath 9]

I don't like that idea because then if I pvped bandits I'd lose the skin. Itd encourage players to only kill respawns n survivors to keep the bandit skin.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I don't think this will really work. Even if you wanted to play as a hero, it'd be extremely hard and even impossible at times. If getting murders causes you to become a bandit, what is a hero suppose to do when he's attacked by a freshly spawned survivor that just found his first gun? The guy isn't a bandit yet, but he's still attacking you and if you return fire then you become the bandit. That leaves two options if you want to remain a hero, you either alt f4 or you try to run and risk getting shot in the ass while running, but you can't fight back in this particular situation.

That's assuming the system hasn't changed at all since it was taken out.

I hope they put a little more thought into it since then.

[denkart 198]

I guess you haven't noticed that killing a player who shot at you first doesnt count as a murder...its a bandit kill. Maybe 'cause you always shoot first?

Damn right I do. I'm not about to risk my beans. I don't actively seek out players to kill, but if they're close enough to be a threat then I take them out. I'm not here to make friends with randoms. I already have friends that I play this with. Anyways, that's not the point. The point is that I'm positive what you said is not true. Earlier today I was in elektro getting some gear for my freshly spawned character. I had a lee enfield and another survivor with a revolver walks in and shoots me. I survived the shot and killed him. It counted as a murder. He's the only player I've killed on this life and I very clearly have one murder in my debug window.

Edited August 3, 2012 by denkart

[fish911503 136]

Damn right I do. I'm not about to risk my beans. I don't actively seek out players to kill, but if they're close enough to be a threat then I take them out. I'm not here to make friends with randoms. I already have friends that I play this with. Anyways, that's not the point. The point is that I'm positive what you said is not true. Earlier today I was in elektro getting some gear for my freshly spawned character. I had a lee enfield and another survivor with a revolver walks in and shoots me. I survived the shot and killed him. It counted as a murder. He's the only player I've killed on this life and I very clearly have one murder in my debug window.

Hmm..well that's lame. They should change that. So it's based on humanity then...that's stupid.

[denkart 198]

Hmm..well that's lame. They should change that. So it's based on humanity then...that's stupid.

It would appear so. It's possible that what I experienced was only a bug though. I'm not in a position to confirm or deny that. It's buggy at best, if you what you said is true.

However, let's take a moment to assume the rule set you suggested were implemented and fully functional. Assuming that one must shoot another player first to be declared a bandit and you must be the one who is shot to receive a bandit kill instead of a murder, I still don't believe this would solve the problem of self defense for heroes. I'll give you a couple of situations and explain why this rule set would still fail to protect heroes from getting murders.

Both of these situations assume that the person attacking you has no murders yet and is not considered a bandit:

Situation 1: You're in a fairly open field with little cover. Someone starts to fire shots at you, but doesn't manage to hit you before you find cover. There is no where for you to run without exposing yourself to more fire. Your only choice is to try to kill him before he kills you, but doing so will give you a murder because he hasn't hit you yet.

Situation 2: Same area as the above situation. This time you have a friend with you. The attacker manages to hit you and break your leg, leaving you stranded in the field. Obviously, you could now shoot him and it would be a bandit kill according to the rule set, but due to low blood and the shakes from pain, it's impossible for you to get a good shot off. Your friend steps in to defend you and kills your attacker. Your friend now has a murder even though he was just defending you.

Edited August 3, 2012 by denkart

[fish911503 136]

It would appear so. It's possible that what I experienced was only a bug though. I'm not in a position to confirm or deny that. It's buggy at best, if you what you said is true.

However, let's take a moment to assume the rule set you suggested were implemented and fully functional. Assuming that one must shoot another player first to be declared a bandit and you must be the one who is shot to receive a bandit kill instead of a murder, I still don't believe this would solve the problem of self defense for heroes. I'll give you a couple of situations and explain why this rule set would still fail to protect heroes from getting murders.

Both of these situations assume that the person attacking you has no murders yet and is not considered a bandit:

Situation 1: You're in a fairly open field with little cover. Someone starts to fire shots at you, but doesn't manage to hit you before you find cover. There is no where for you to run without exposing yourself to more fire. Your only choice is to try to kill him before he kills you, but doing so will give you a murder because he hasn't hit you yet.

Situation 2: Same area as the above situation. This time you have a friend with you. The attacker manages to hit you and break your leg, leaving you stranded in the field. Obviously, you could now shoot him and it would be a bandit kill according to the rule set, but due to low blood and the shakes from pain, it's impossible for you to get a good shot off. Your friend steps in to defend you and kills your attacker. Your friend now has a murder even though he was just defending you.

Right...well a buddy system would take care of the second problem i think. Also maybe some sort of "target player" system.

example. Where you have to "in some way" target a player initially before firing. This tells the central server which player ID's are engaged and who is the aggressor. All "buddies" of the targeting player are also allowed to fire (without having to target) and all of the buddys of the targeted player can also engage.

[Virfortis 111]

"Now take Sir Francis Drake, the Spanish all despise him!

But to the British, he's a hero, and they idolize him!

It's how you look at buccaneers, that makes the bad or good.

And I see us as members of a noble brotherhood."

In other words, what's to stop bandits that kill from popping a buddy in the leg and healing them back to health for more karma?

[suito 17]

Year .. shitti bandig skin .. *yey*

Just one situation happens to me:

Guy run to me, shoot at me but just hit the ground near me, i scope him, bäm, he death .. i get a murder .. nice one -..-

[fish911503 136]

"Now take Sir Francis Drake, the Spanish all despise him!

But to the British, he's a hero, and they idolize him!

It's how you look at buccaneers, that makes the bad or good.

And I see us as members of a noble brotherhood."

In other words, what's to stop bandits that kill from popping a buddy in the leg and healing them back to health for more karma?

Ideally I guess the actions would cancel each other out. Making it a pointless endeavor. As for you're quote...it's splitting hairs. The subtleties of human morality cannot be fully coded into game (yet). It needs to be kept simple.

[denkart 198]

Right...well a buddy system would take care of the second problem i think. Also maybe some sort of "target player" system.

example. Where you have to "in some way" target a player initially before firing. This tells the central server which player ID's are engaged and who is the aggressor. All "buddies" of the targeting player are also allowed to fire (without having to target) and all of the buddys of the targeted player can also engage.

Yeah, a buddy system could possibly fix the second situation if done right. I think that's something we might see in the future. In regards to the targeting system, that really has no place in FPS for a number of reasons.

1. Aiming is the main action in a FPS aside from shooting, so the targeting system could not provide any sort of auto aim.

2. If it provides no benefit to target someone, why use it? Bandits certainly aren't going to take the time to target you if all it does is net them a murder.

3. If you try to force players into using the target system by requiring them to target before firing, you limit player's reaction speed, which is essential in a FPS. When you're under fire, that extra second it takes you to target someone could be what gets you killed.

I don't see a way a targeting system could be implemented without being clunky and cumbersome for the players. But maybe there's something I'm not seeing?

[Virfortis 111]

Ideally I guess the actions would cancel each other out. Making it a pointless endeavor. As for you're quote...it's splitting hairs. The subtleties of human morality cannot be fully coded into game (yet). It needs to be kept simple.

PLEASE tell me you know where that quote is from...I would hate for it to go missed.

What I mean is that morality/hero is subjective and really based on a case-by-case-by-person basis. There's nothing stopping bandits from exploiting the system. Now, the lone bandit I can definitely see being hurt by this, but the clans of bandits? Not really.

[fish911503 136]

Yeah, a buddy system could possibly fix the second situation if done right. I think that's something we might see in the future. In regards to the targeting system, that really has no place in FPS for a number of reasons.

1. Aiming is the main action in a FPS aside from shooting, so the targeting system could not provide any sort of auto aim.

2. If it provides no benefit to target someone, why use it? Bandits certainly aren't going to take the time to target you if all it does is net them a murder.

3. If you try to force players into using the target system by requiring them to target before firing, you limit player's reaction speed, which is essential in a FPS. When you're under fire, that extra second it takes you to target someone could be what gets you killed.

I don't see a way a targeting system could be implemented without being clunky and cumbersome for the players. But maybe there's something I'm not seeing?

1. The targeting system would have nothing to with aiming...its only purpose is to tell main server who fired first and at who.

2. Again it doesn't give advanyage..the purpose is to send info to server

3. If your under fire it means yiuve been targeted...server knows youve been targeted ..thus you can defend yourself freely

[- Valkyrie - 89]

I got over 30 murderers in my current life. All of them are survivor kills except 2 kills, those were bandits. So I am kinda asking myself wtf. I didn't mean to shoot those guys, they fired first so I kill them in self defense and I become a bandit. How are those people survivors? Am I that lucky to come across 30 random survivors who decided to start their life as a bandit by killing me as their first murder? I don't get it. SO yeah.. It will be hard keeping the Hero attitude up with that kind of stuff.

I generally don't care whether I will have a bandit or hero skin for the future, since I know kill on sight and conceal and sneak through cities and other places where players are most likely to be found, so.. For the majority it won't mater I guess. You will see my skin type anyways late, because the bullet will be already flying towards your brain.

[fish911503 136]

PLEASE tell me you know where that quote is from...I would hate for it to go missed.

What I mean is that morality/hero is subjective and really based on a case-by-case-by-person basis. There's nothing stopping bandits from exploiting the system. Now, the lone bandit I can definitely see being hurt by this, but the clans of bandits? Not really.

I understand morality is subjective...I'm saying that subjectivity is to complex to code into a game. So it gets dumbed down a generalization that the engine process efficiently. And I don't think the purpose of the mechanic would or should be to "hurt" any playstyle. Maybe I should actually listen to the feed and see what Rocket said.

[kander 80]

Hero and bandit could just be a meta-score or something...

Heroes get points slowly the longer they go without killing any players (so long as they have no player kills; as soon as they kill someone the skin is gone and can't return) but can accumulate higher numbers by bandaging, transfusing, etc.

Bandits get banditry points for bandit-ing.

It'd be probably good to have different levels of skins too, though... You know that guy is a total dillwad because he has a lot of bandit stuff, and likewise the guy walking around with a glowing halo is definitely a guy you can trust.

I find this hilarious.. and this isn't meant as offence to you PWNtrooper:

Being considered a 'hero' just for not killing people... Only in DayZ

IRL I'd be a demi god. I've racked up nearly 30 years play time; Hardly killed anyone.

Edited August 3, 2012 by kander

[athrins 39]

Maybe implement a vast customization system where players could dress the way they want? You know the bandits would be the first to put leather jacket on, lots of symbols, spikes, decorations, camo, aggressive face, etc. while the friendly survivor would be more likely to put on normal t-shirts, jeans, coat, jacket, simple textures and a kind/normal face.

I sure would shoot a character with leather jacket + cloth spikes + lame hairstyle + angry face + piercings + symbols at fucking sight. I would feel more confident in making contact with a normal looking survivor.

The problem would solve itself without having magical head towels appearing on people's heads.

[lobo1845 9]

I never really had any major issues with the bandit skin in self defense, you just need to move away to less populated areas for a little bit until you get back to survivor status, or just bandage and administer some meds if you're in a group. It will make it interesting now that most servers have disabled name tags and global chat, every other bandit can't claim to have the skin in self defense any more, which isn't so bad because most of them are lying anyway. Either way both groups can play the way they want, rather than mostly everyone being forced to play the way a bandit normally does before they were removed. Can't wait to start some bandit hunting, I got a lot of pent up rage from backstabs senseless sniping to vent.