Trade Zones

[KWilt 157]

Yep thats my opinion too some spot to meet unknown people in a relaxed /relativly safe spot

Why are you playing a survival-oriented game if you want a feeling of relaxation or safety?

I don't think DayZ is for you.

[3rdparty 229]

Introduce Police-Station/Prison, highly defendable area with.. metal detectors! ideal for peeps wanting to start trading post as its easily defend able, has an in built system for checking whether peeps are disarmed whilst not ruling out the possibility of someone wanting to go in blasting. XD

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/45284-control-old-industry/

[nikiller 122]

hi,

I f you want safe zones, why not do it yourself?

You could contact people on the forum and you could work together to build a kind of guarded camp (with rules you and your buddies establish) where people could come and trade their stuff. Or maybe make a network where people who want i.e a range finder and people who have a spare one can meet and trade. You could have a reputation system. Possibilities are endless!

Organize stuff by yourself or it's not going to happen.

Look at the medic crew who help people here: http://dayzmod.com/f...ce-we-can-help/ you can do pretty much the same thing but with trading.

People are too used to play games with rules. That's strange that when you liberate players they want to be tied up with rules again. Why wait for rocket to say you what to do?

Sorry for my crappy english. :)

cya.

Nikiller.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Nikiller

[S3V3N 1402]

A reason why it works with the medics and not with traders is: someone who trades would need a great deal of storage. The coyote bags hold a maximum of 2 rifles and you would have to carry one more rifle and the mags on you. It is clearly more easy to carry medcine and blood, since they only take up 1 slot each.

If a trader takes a truck he will get shot at and become one of the most valuable loots to bandits. What would be possible is a trading convoy that moves among the main roads every once in a while.

I am slowly becoming less reluctant to using a non automated mechanism to establish trade. However, I still see it as doubtful to call something "more" realistic when you have to jump onto a forum and make an appointment with the medic/trader, so he will show up in game. That is not exactly the native solution I had in mind when starting this thread - but it is a compromise.

I think trader vehicles should be recognizable (e.g MTVR or HMMWV), then this could work. It should also be commonly agreed that players who attack traders or interfere with trading will not be "served" in the future. This goes for bandits as well as civilians. Alright then, lets organise some kind of trade and ask Rocket, if he will allow special vehicles for the purpose. Those vehicles would only be available at a fixed date of the month/week, so trading could be done on sundays and after that the vehicles will disappear again. During trade in progress there is a seize fire and you can use the opportunity to chat.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[3rdparty 229]

A reason why it works with the medics and not with traders is: someone who trades would need a great deal of storage. The coyote bags hold a maximum of 3 rifles and you would have to carry the mags on you. It is clearly more easy to carry medcine and blood, since they only take up 1 slot each.

If a trader takes a truck he will get shot at and become one of the most valuable loots to bandits. What would be possible is a trading convoy that moves among the main roads every once in a while.

I am slowly becoming less reluctant to using a non automated mechanism to establish trade. However, I still see it as doubtful to call something "more" realistic when you have to jump onto a forum and make an appointment with the medic/trader, so he will show up in game. That is not exactly the native solution I had in mind when starting this thread - but it is a compromise.

I think trader vehicles should be recognizable (e.g MTVR or HMMWV), then this could work. It should also be commonly agreed that players who attack traders or interfere with trading will not be "served" in the future. This goes for bandits as well as civilians. Alright then, lets organise some kind of trade and ask Rocket, if he will allow special vehicles for the purpose. Those vehicles would only be available at a fixed date of the month/week, so trading could be done on sundays and after that the vehicles will disappear again. During trade in progress there is a seize fire and you can use the opportunity to chat.

no noo much too much, has to be all players organisation. not in game mechanics or time zones.

ploice station or prison, if they were introduced they would ultra secure buildings with metal detectors that could be used as a safe trading, de armed zone, but all still done through players actions

[S3V3N 1402]

So you are saying it is better to create new content (police station, metal detectors...) than to let some recognizable cars and respectable players drive among a fixed route every once in a while? I doubt Police or Prisons are even remotely as easy to build and organize like adding a couple of trade cars every sunday.

I would say use (normal) ingame cars, but they still get hoarded and are almost impossible to find on some servers.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[KnT47r 51]

I would so hunt those cars. Imagine the loot lol

[3rdparty 229]

So you are saying it is better to create new content (police station, metal detectors...) than to let some recognizable cars and respectable players drive among a fixed route every once in a while? I doubt Police or Prisons are even remotely as easy to build and organize like adding a couple of trade cars every sunday.

I would say use (normal) ingame cars, but they still get hoarded and are almost impossible to find on some servers.

Yup definitely, this game is going standalone, and seeing as theres already been lovely insights into the possibility of 200 peep servers, a new map will be developed, and ill be dam disappointed if it isnt widely explorable and unique in every location.

The idea of having certain cars (available, only spawn?) on sundays or any day doesnt sit well with me, its restrictive. Police stations offer a safe secure enviornment and equipment to at least provide incentive for the building to be occupied and used.

Edited July 26, 2012 by 3rdParty

[S3V3N 1402]

Yes, I imagine but they would be well prepared against raids. That's why I would request armed cars for the traders. I dunno how the humvee and the MTR with turrets are called, but they would be ideal. It would be really difficult for bandits to raid them. The difficulty I have is figuring out how to do the actual trade without anyone interfering. An island would be ideal, so maybe someone should just turn one of the islands into a trade fortress. The question then is - how would you get the trucks onto the island ~ god this is a tough one. In Arma (I) there was a nice half island in the south, which you could only reach on a bridge. That would be an ideal place; unfortunately nothing like it exists in Arma II.

This will be a lot of stress to organise :) I just read the medic's thread and found out they have been banging heads about this, too. If it works we have something like a player made mission in the game. Trading would work in two steps. First the cars bring the goods and then the players pass the controls and leave their weapons at the guard posts. Damn, I really wish there was something like a half island. Any suggestions for a place that might work? Screenshot and map cords/location included, if you can.

[3rdparty 229]

See thats where i think the problem comes in, they should be able to be raided. The difficulty comes in balancing the logistics/time/difficulty of both organizing activities (in this case trade) and counter activities of banditry. So that one wont spend hours/days for it to be destroyed in one trolling minute, and bandits wont be completely out of the realms of fulfilling their evil schemes.

There is an island, and that would be a cool trading post, but would still all have to be player driven, and possible anytime.

[S3V3N 1402]

- how do you get the goods safely to the island? Fishing boat (storage too small, no protection)

- how do you organise the transition of goods from the truck to the island?

The problem is - there is always a problem :)

I think bandits are well able to raid armed trucks and ambush them properly. A Ural wouldn't have a chance against an army of bandits with military weapons, such as the M107. Armed vehicles might. And I have the solution for my suggestion. The BMP 1 or the AAV. It can swim, it has storage and is very difficult to stop and ambush. The main cannon could be disabled to keep things fair. Trades could even be done inside the BMP. You would have one vehicle as the carrier and one for the trades. After the deal is negotiated the goods are transfered from the carrier vehicle.

Problem solved without introducing anything that isn't available right now or would add further to the lag problems.

BTW, I don't see why trading should only be open to civilians. Bandits can trade, as long as they adhere to the same rules. Is there even a way to keep them apart? I never know how you can figure out someone is a bandit.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[3rdparty 229]

but the problem ye mention there, isnt really a problem, its the a challenge of what your trying to accomplish XD

i dont think so, how are these vehicles even distributed? there is essentially still a desire to trade in-game, but is being seemingly assisted by provided armored vehicles to trading players.

Still, I think any trading should be set up by players only with the resources freely accessible in game, if they choose the island, tbh i guess that is another good location... no metal detectors though XD

[S3V3N 1402]

Okay, I tried the medic service and it works like a charm. Got a reply within 10 hours. As I said, the only thing that kept me from suggesting something like that for traders, is because it is a function that works only outside the game. Maybe we can find a way to do this ingame later, but I think trading could work the same way like medic. The only problem I see is that there would be a lot of traffic on the trading site (more than on the medic) and it would most likely get a bit confusing.

Also, I really like the idea of having a sort of trade market somewhere, but we've been going all over it an there is no way to establish it without either building new units or re-purposing some that are already in Arma II. With the normal civ vehicles trading would be too risky.

[hulahuga 29]

Why not simply introduce bases, and then leave it up to the players to decide how to govern them, perhaps they will create a hansanetic league?

[S3V3N 1402]

Bases seem to elaborate. they would be constant loot points for bandits. I would like it too, but I doubt anyone has the manpower and interest to pull off securing the perimeter.

I have been thinking about flags lately. Maybe there could be certain trade locations and if there is a white flag you know someone is there for trading. If there isn't you don't have to bother checking it out. Again - the problem is bandits and abusers and keeping them from looting...

[3rdparty 229]

Bases seem to elaborate. they would be constant loot points for bandits. I would like it too, but I doubt anyone has the manpower and interest to pull off securing the perimeter.

I have been thinking about flags lately. Maybe there could be certain trade locations and if there is a white flag you know someone is there for trading. If there isn't you don't have to bother checking it out. Again - the problem is bandits and abusers and keeping them from looting...

Thats where i disagree ALOT tbh, i think there should be bases, id say holding off a secrue building like a prison is far easier then consistent trade runs using armoured cars and boats to an island. Let alone the setting up preocess.

Bases and fortifications, aswell as using different facilities should be introduced, because it can other a range of activities for different sized groups to lone survivors. And the largest settlements are most likely going to be the friendliest, because in order to accomplish the biggest take over, ye need alot of people co-operating.

[j92040 17]

Trade zones where pvp is not permitted would be nifty, but then you'd just get shot and robbed the second you set foot outside of these designated zones. It would just be a giant bandit-magnet.

[3rdparty 229]

not necessarily, i compiled a thread on this http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/45284-control-old-industry/page__hl__sewers last night

i think if cities were far more complex and larger, the kind of open vulnerability you have with the current map might be reduced, further if sewers are introduced, it offers multiple paths and alternate routes that are harder to predict by ambushers :)

for example i liked the idea of sewers being connected to some of the buildings, so peeps may even move in and out without a sniper even knowing.

[S3V3N 1402]

I am more looking for an immediate solution. Not trying to improve the future retail game. In a retail game a lot can be done diffferently though you also need to keep in mind that the engine has limitations. Caves, for example aren't possible with the current Arma Engine. I doubt something like sewers would work without being instanced/loading times.

What troubles me a bit is where those vehicles would go with the trade items that weren't sold. There isn't a single safe square meter on the map, and the only thing I can think of that's halfway safe is far out, on the sea (carrier). The carrier would be another good option for a trade spot, since it is secure and well within reach of boats and out of snipers. There would have to be a boat taxi service though. So instead of a convoy, lets have an armada and it takes players to the carrier, which is a trade only zone and heavily protected.

Btw, I really like all the ideas that this thread has provoked. That's the real beauty of this game - imagine there was more like that ingame. People trying to figure out how to make a better living and game, instead of shooting and looting, only. That will never be lost (and is okay too), but I feel we could add a lot with our own ideas.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[3rdparty 229]

I am more looking for an immediate solution. Not trying to improve the future retail game. In a retail game a lot can be done diffferently though you also need to keep in mind that the engine has limitations. Caves, for example aren't possible with the current Arma Engine. I doubt something like sewers would work without being instanced/loading times.

I'd say keep it simple and within current limitations. Vehicles organized by players will work better than encaspulated areas that will be different on every server, Even if you know a server has a trade area, how would you know it is there on another server? Supplies have to be brought to the market frequently and if you ever played the side mission in Dominiation (Arma II) where you have to find the convoy you will know how difficult it will be for bandits to determine its route. There could also be several different locations for the trades. The areas where trade takes place would have to be secured or isolated (islands, mountain tops etc) and there would be need of a group of people, who secures the trade lines. Rangers + Traders woring together once a week could be fun.

:S im not really down for temporary solutions tbh, but let me ask ye this, if the vehciles are only allowed on cerain day/s (although i see massive problems with this) how will they be distributed and guaranteed for trading purposes?

[Herr Robert 28]

Safe zones would ruin DayZ. Too many of the players would just sit in the safe zones to avoid getting killed, and you would have a gameplay similar to the MMOs where you have to agree to a duel to actually have some PvP ...

If you want to trade, organize a trade from outside of the game. There are many reliable traders at http://freesidetrading.co for instance, including myself. The FTC also run trading events, and they have a reputation for being reliable, so if you don't want to trade with an individual trader, you can do it during a FTC trading event under their protection.

[3rdparty 229]

Safe zones would ruin DayZ. Too many of the players would just sit in the safe zones to avoid getting killed, and you would have a gameplay similar to the MMOs where you have to agree to a duel to actually have some PvP ...

If you want to trade, organize a trade from outside of the game. There are many reliable traders at http://freesidetrading.co for instance, including myself. The FTC also run trading events, and they have a reputation for being reliable, so if you don't want to trade with an individual trader, you can do it during a FTC trading event under their protection.

Ai dont mind safe zones, theyve just go to made by the players, that freeside trading is a v good example.

Ye shouldnt have guarenteed safe zones in this game, the players got to make it themselves.

Edited July 26, 2012 by 3rdParty

[S3V3N 1402]

Sry, I changed my thread while you were reading it. Take not of this paragraph:

The carrier would be another good option for a trade spot, since it is secure and well within reach of boats and out of snipers. There would have to be a boat taxi service though. So instead of a convoy, lets have an armada and it takes players to the carrier, which is a trade only zone and heavily protected.

This combines both our best ideas into something that is entirely feasible and would even make a lot of sense in real life.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[3rdparty 229]

.. this will be NPCs though surely, or a massive group, and again how would these armored vehciles, boats and carriers be distributed to guarantee a consistent trading post?

all sounds way too safe to me.

[terrvik 2409]

Come one!* There must be SOMEWHERE you can safely meet someone to trade on the huge map. There aren't snipers behind every little bush. If this game ever introduces safe zones, quest hubs, NPC's, trading money or other mmo tropes I will stop playing because the originality will be lost.

EDIT: *Come one!?

Edited July 26, 2012 by Terrorviktor