Trade Zones

[S3V3N 1402]

The boats drive taxi rounds and otherwise stay at the trading posts, so do the traders. They have a permanent settlement there and there is always a watchpost. NPCs could be used (as gunners) if the human watchpost system fails, but are not necessary and would indeed make things a bit too safe, imho.

It is much easier to secure than your police station and trade camp ideas, but it is not impossible bandits could raid it. Anyone within a 1 m radius must prepare to get sniped, but bandits may figure out a way to attack with overwhelming force/great strategy, given they have enough time and good organization. For once this would be a situation where bandits can't just waltz all over a place, but would actually need a damn good strategy or a lot of luck to invade the trade zone.

Also, I think the zone should be active every day 24/7 and not only on certain days. Traders would get certain priviliges, like excellent weapons and gear, but they would also actually have to work their "job" once a week and for a couple of hours. Then, another guy takes over and they are free to roam the world again.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[3rdparty 229]

The boats drive taxi rounds and otherwise stay at the trading posts, so do the traders. They have a permanent settlement there and there is always a watchpost. NPCs could be used (as gunners) if the human watchpost system fails, but are not necessary and would indeed make things a bit too safe, imho.

It is much easier to secure than your police station and trade camp ideas, but it is not impossible bandits could raid it. Anyone within a 1 m radius must prepare to get sniped, but bandits may figure out a way to attack with overwhelming force/great strategy, given they have enough time and good organization. For once this would be a situation where bandits can't just waltz all over a place, but would actually need a damn good strategy or a lot of luck to invade the trade zone.

Also, I think the zone should be active every day 24/7 and not only on certain days. Traders would get certain priviliges, like excellent weapons and gear, but they would also actually have to work their "job" once a week and for a couple of hours. Then, another guy takes over and they are free to roam the world again.

NPCs definate no no. Its easier to defend because yeve given (and still how are these gear and vehicles distributed?) a set of peeps armored cars vehicles, a stock pile of the best weapons and a ready made shake-n-bake colony on an island OR carrier. In actuality it would be a logistical nightmare, possible, and certainly very cool, but a logistical nightmare to set up and maintain.

Not saying the island isnt a good target to set up on, jsut that youve literally handed in the challenge every one else faces of getting the best weapons, items, location and vehicles.

[duddbudda 33]

anyone supporting this idea needs to play anything, anything else imaginable, as long as you don't stay in DayZ or go to Salem

Dean 'Rocket' Hall

DayZ cannot and will not compromise on being a Player-defined world

want trade? go and trade you imbeciles

Edited July 26, 2012 by Sandy

[3rdparty 229]

anyone supporting this idea needs to play anything, anything else imaginable, as long as you don't stay in DayZ or go to Salem

want trade? go and trade you imbeciles

although harsh i cannay disagree, its gotta be set up and maintained by the players matey, this is holding ze players hand type stoof :(

Edited July 26, 2012 by 3rdParty

[n69ky 0]

while i'd like to have some civilisation in the game the only way would be to really make groups like horde, aliance (lol...) or 'lone wolf' you choose to join and have a better clue about who'll shoot on sight or not... but that aint gon happen nor do I want that...

[S3V3N 1402]

I only replied to include NPCs, because you suggested it. The zombies are NPCs. Shouldn't they better be player controlled ^^

People like Sandy have a bad attitude and no imagination. Imbeciles... trade... yes... Sandy... stoneage

You don't give any constructive criticism, instead you state the obvious. We are trying to find out how to organize trade in the way the medics have organized themselves. Only with trade it is a whole lot more dfficult. Are you saying, Sandy, that the Medics are "imbeciles" for trying to help others or playing the game their way? No, yes, stoned?

Next time make a suggestion, or - if you have to hurl - do it over your screen and not in this thread.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[3rdparty 229]

I only replied to include NPCs, because you suggested it. The zombies are NPCs. Shouldn't they better be player controlled ^^

People like Sandy have a bad attitude and no imagination. Imbeciles... trade... yes... Sandy... stoneage

You don't give any constructive criticism, instead you state the obvious. We are trying to find out how to organize trade in the way the medics have organized themselves. Only with trade it is a whole lot more dfficult. Are you saying, Sandy, that the Medics are "imbeciles" for trying to help others or playing the game their way? No, yes, stoned?

Next time make a suggestion, or - if you have to hurl - do it over your screen and not in this thread.

I wasnt suggesting it, trying to figure out how this system of yours would work, given you still havnt said how vehicles and equipment are distrbuted!! Yes zombie and animals, lets keep them as the only NPCs and DEFININANTLY NOT PLAYABLE.

but he is making a point, that being that you should organise with other players, not expect an area to be desginated, or equipment to be sourced, but do it yourself.

the point of the police station is that its an area with an incentive, doesnt necessarily have to be for trade, but its an incentive given a metal detector for use in de-arming peeps..

ANYTHING added purely for the sake of easing the transaction of traders and trading is not going to happen. Players got to do it for themselves. Its whether a sandbox environment can be created in which incentives for deeply developing these type of organizations can be created.

Edited July 26, 2012 by 3rdParty

[S3V3N 1402]

... boats aren't added and the carrier is normally on the map. Police stations and metal detectors aren't even in the game.

He is NOT making a point, he is making a brainfart. A point would be "pointing" out how to solve the trade problem of "I shoot you before we trade" ingame, without having to negotiate everything on a forum. I still don't see why so many people think the ultimate in realism means calling up friends on skype or typing for a doctor/trader on a forum. These mechanisms should be figured out ingame, but they can't. There is no mechanics to communicate or ways to support trading or setting up a trade post.

[3rdparty 229]

so you mean peeps organise and use the boats in game. not any armored vehicles as previously mentioned. thats because this suggestion forum. and seeing as its striving towards standalone, or at least being ported to Arma 3, i think the new map should always be considered.

and im afraid thats where we disagree, go organise with peeps yourself, some of the problems i think you wanna be asking are better for general discussions or survivor camp forums.

I do see what ye mean about meta gaming but the mechanics so familiar in other games guarenteeing in-game safe trade are not applicable in this game, because its simulating a apocalyptic environment where things are not safe and are not guaranteed.

heres my "two cents" in game.. social/economic structure i guess ye could call it ( i think ive already posted the thread though) http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/45284-control-old-industry/#entry430568

[S3V3N 1402]

Currently, there are not enough boats in game and the ones there don't have the capacity for trade.There are options like the fishing boat, which is large and unarmed. I would prefer Rhibs, but then again they might get stolen, if the traders run a sloppy business. Also, I am not asking for safety, but to even things out. There is no balance, when bandits have all the best guns and people running a trade are supposed to protect their boat with an Enfield.

The best solution would be if the bandits would actually organize the trades, because they have the means to do it on a bigger scale. However, they don't have an interest in that, so nothing will happen.

On the new (arma 3) map this would have to be taken even more into consideration, since, from what I understand, it is a number of bigger islands, instead of one chunk of terrain.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[3rdparty 229]

.. so isnt this now essentially a discussion on tactics for setting up a trade organisation?

[kyle939 20]

People will start flaming this soon, seen things like this a few times and the flamers appear.

Alot of belittlent kids on here...

Trading Zone.... Ermm I kinda agree kinda not because...

1. It would have to be a safe outpost type thing right?

Problems here are people will live there without leaving

2. Trading? Prices be insane and would be the price? Water for coke?

Cannot use money because it's a zombie pandemic so cash be out of it.

3. Trading what for what?

You can find everything you want in the map, it's just time to find and skill to survive and you'll find stuff surely sooner or later.

4. There would not be an ingame safe zone added. You would physically have to make your own safe zone with friends. Farm for supplies and hold it.

Then problems persist there.

[S3V3N 1402]

It's working on some servers where you can negotiate with merchants, like you can with the medics now.

I didn't intend it to be a trade post for everyday items, but for rare ones, e.g. m24 ammo (or the rifle). Okay - you can make a forum post about it and hope someone reads it, but there should be a way to do it ingame. A simple blackboard and a code which works to chat between the two players who want to trade would suffice, but I thougth a working ingame trade union could actually add some interest to the game and draw bandits a bit away from looting single players.

I also think this thread has always been about establishing means for trading that don't rely on external mechanisms but are native to Dayz, instead. We tried everything and it seems nobody has a solution. I agree I didn't have one either, but at least I provided a few means. Here's what I came up with:

- different skin for players that want to trade, e.g. they wear a vest that s a visible cue they want to trade. They will not shoot you, neither will you shoot them. If you do, you will lose your vest and means of trading for a week.

- flagpoles as visual cue for a trade in the vicinity. Meet at the (raised) white flag and hope people will accept the seize fire. Of course this won't work and the flag areas will be sought out by bandits and dm-ers.

- isolated areas that are secure and can be protected (mountain tops, islands); one of my favorite ideas, but it would require a good organisation and will be difficult to communicate to other playeres where these spots are.

- introducing new vehicles that can serve as a trade base, e.g. BMP-1, amphibious vehicle. You get the people for the trade and for your protection in the BMP and drive to a location where trade is realtively safe. Problem: these vehicles can easily be abused when they are stolen.

-trading on the air carrier outside of Cherno. I only remembered later that it is impossible to board that ship from the sea, so this idea fails at the start. I am also unsure if the carrier is spawning on the DayZ map.

[3rdparty 229]

no such thing as an original idea matey, just mountains of lost ones.

-different skin? ie "recognise this?" "know what im about to do?" (bandit skin) Lose their vest for a week? Does rocket himself reclaim it?

- yes, and is essentially pointless.

- yes except via radio, logistical planning all over the show.

- or serve anyone who finds them and pick them up? eseentially adding new vehciles?

- itd be nice, but again something added, not necessarily used for trade

There needs to be a specific incentive for creating a trade post in a particular area, it would be cool to have any type of base on the island or carrier. Heres a problematic thought, seeing as this is a temp solution aswell, bandits may very well already be set up on the islands. :S

[S3V3N 1402]

True bandithadskins, but I'm only playing this for a week. Perhaps that only means I haven't become that accustomed to all those problems. I know it's fun to kill and loot other guys - I did it once - but I felt bad afterwards. I wish there was an option to be more decent and trading seemed like the thing were a lot of good (+bad) can happen.

All of this makes me think how we actually manage in real life to get along halfway well. It's the fear of getting injured or fear for one's own life that keeps armed conflicts from escalating. In RL there are longterm consequences, which are defined by the way we act towards one another. What i fear the most is that there will be no further development in Dayz and ideas like larger player-governed zones will never be realized..

It's still great as a game, maybe I am just expecting it to be even better than real life. I think that's what you aspire for too with all the mechanisms and new buildings you detail in your thread, 3rdParty. Lot of thought went into that, but I suppose that's all it will be, in the end. Fatality wins me over... now let's get back ingame to shoot some other players ;)

[hulahuga 29]

Let players do this, but have a trading option, and also more ways for players to flag their intentions (such as real flags and whatnot). Then leave it up for everyone to use that in douche baggy ways and trick people by all means, but still have it there :)

[3rdparty 229]

True bandithadskins, but I'm only playing this for a week. Perhaps that only means I haven't become that accustomed to all those problems. I know it's fun to kill and loot other guys - I did it once - but I felt bad afterwards. I wish there was an option to be more decent and trading seemed like the thing were a lot of good (+bad) can happen.

All of this makes me think how we actually manage in real life to get along halfway well. It's the fear of getting injured or fear for one's own life that keeps armed conflicts from escalating. In RL there are longterm consequences, which are defined by the way we act towards one another. What i fear the most is that there will be no further development in Dayz and ideas like larger player-governed zones will never be realized..

It's still great as a game, maybe I am just expecting it to be even better than real life. I think that's what you aspire for too with all the mechanisms and new buildings you detail in your thread, 3rdParty. Lot of thought went into that, but I suppose that's all it will be, in the end. Fatality wins me over... now let's get back ingame to shoot some other players ;)

definitely, but its gotta be something player built from the ground up, any kind of in game assistance (as a pose to incentive) will conflict with what the game is hoping to accomplish

[RachetSmurf 2]

Ai dont mind safe zones, theyve just go to made by the players, that freeside trading is a v good example.

Ye shouldnt have guarenteed safe zones in this game, the players got to make it themselves.

Player run free zones, mean you protect the other survivors yourself.. instead of being automated. Freeside does this well, except when we encounter hackers.. then what can you do right?

[vision1776 42]

I like the idea, but I also like that you have to trust who you trade and that you could get robbed and conflict arises. Also you have it right, most bandits would probably exploit the safe zones and I think that danger should stick with you through-out the entirety of your gameplay. Maybe, player are able to create a safe zone by repairing every building in a town that will stop the spawns of zombies in that area and putting a wall and entrance to the town creating a server wide safe zone owned by those players. They can get a gate system that you are stripped of weapons but maybe you could sneak in a m9sd or a hunting knife that you can use to mug people. In response, owners can approve people to allow them the usage of guns and they can defend those in the town. Also this can create a guild type system were the players can fight for territory in the end game. Also repaired buildings slow down the amount of respawning items.

That would take an mmo game to accomplish and I still prefer the NPC guarded camps..

War Z got that one almost right and they stole that idea from our forums.

NPC guarded towns where players have laws to follow but are free to break them and face the consequences IE getting shot by NPC guards. In such a town they also have message boards letting you know of known bandits and players can freely trade using a fiat currency.and NPCs buy certain items that are needed for the town like food, ammo, scrap metal. etc. NPCs would pay more based on a formula on supply and demand.

To all those people againts adding a currency "because its unrealistic" you need to read some history and learn how Barter ALWAYS leads to currency.

[RunningScared 4]

Hi, I've been wondering- wouldn't it be acceptable to turn the churches and the surrounding areas into trade zones?

This would totally ruin the immersion and formula of the game, not just no, but, hell no.

Edited July 27, 2012 by RunningScared

[RunningScared 4]

To all those people againts adding a currency "because its unrealistic" you need to read some history and learn how Barter ALWAYS leads to currency.

This game already has currency, one bullet to the head for all of someones gear :)

[vision1776 42]

This game already has currency, one bullet to the head for all of someones gear :)

Or how about 1 bulelt to the head for target practice on unarmed newbies. Thats what this game has become now.

[RunningScared 4]

Or how about 1 bulelt to the head for target practice on unarmed newbies. Thats what this game has become now.

The real world is a fucked up place, not surprising that this one is also.

This is a survival game, it is hard to survive, especially with armed psychopaths running around killing people, but I survive....I survive!

[Lapis 4]

nope

[S3V3N 1402]

Yes, Running Scared, you are so boss. You don't even have to think about how to improve the game. If one shot to the head is all you want from a game, I suggest playing some Zombie Flash games.

Unless there are radios or factions that stay active over time, trading is not gonna happen on a bigger scale.I found a few spots on the map in the meantime that make excellent trade locations and can be sealed off/secured.

I don't want trading to be a location all Nubs run to after spawn. I'd like trading for some of the rare items, perhaps even for testing them. It should still be challenging to find your gear at the start and anyone who comes near the trading location without going along the designated route, will be shot.