Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[The Killing Joke 43]

What do you think to these ideas?

I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Your ideas are bad, and you should feel bad. /Zoidberg

[Typhus (DayZ) 0]

I agree with bass, the lack of something like the humanity system will turn this mod's players into mindless killing machines.

[Dylan(Pezix) 0]

I saw more dead bodies than I have ever seen before in this game after this patch... It was so bad I thought the server/glitch was randomly killing people for a sec.

Usually when people see me I say hi and trade, yesterday I just ran away and inside the game died alittle to me...

Time to be a hermit in the woods and play Cabelas non dangerous hunts 2012...

[The Killing Joke 43]

I agree with bass' date=' the lack of something like the humanity system will turn this mod's players into mindless killing machines.[/quote']

Only if you let it. Read my "It's Your Fault" link, below.

The humanity system was proven to done thing, and one thing only, and that was to single out people for shooting other people, which lead to an unfair disadvantage.

Just say no to differential arbitrary skins!

[Typhus (DayZ) 0]

I agree with bass' date=' the lack of something like the humanity system will turn this mod's players into mindless killing machines.[/quote']

Only if you let it. Read my "It's Your Fault" link, below.

The humanity system was proven to done thing, and one thing only, and that was to single out people for shooting other people, which lead to an unfair disadvantage.

Just say no to differential arbitrary skins!

It sure is a cute post, but I feel that it's lacking one thing: it's a game, there is absolutely no moral dilemma to it because you're killing virtual characters.

I've never even said that I was gonna shoot everybody, and your post proves absolutely nothing, I'll still try to be friendly, but how can you make any friends in a virtual world where everyone shoots everyone with NO consequences?

If it was the real world, as an excellent post by that guy with a dead mouse as his avatar said, we would be having nightmares about the person we killed, we'd get cold hands, we'd get sick, we'd go nuts just thinking about the person we murdered. This makes us think twice before killing, before shooting anybody, this makes us ask ourselves "Should I really be doing this?"

How can you portray this in a video game with virtual people?, you can't. Unless rocket makes everybody get shakes before killing someone, but where's the fun in that if you want to be a bandit?

So we need another solution, that makes it so the players CAN actually trust each other without going boom boom at first sight because they can't ask "friendly?" (chatting, as I said a few times, is a death sentence in a 1 on 1 meeting) due to the enormous risk of death. Nobody wants to lose hours of progress because some faglord decides to use the fact that the other guy is typing on chat to line up a headshot, so they're not gonna risk it.

How about a distinctive hat/skin for whoever is more triggerhappy?, like this, those that are impaired in communication (no microphone) can actually type in front of another survivor without the constant fear of getting a bullet in their head.

I just noticed how big this post is, bear with me.

[IDex (DayZ) 4]

I agree with bass' date=' the lack of something like the humanity system will turn this mod's players into mindless killing machines.

[/quote']

No. Just no.

The humanity turned the mod into a damn cops and robbers DTM. People shot the "opposite side" on sight and since most survivors had to kill someone sooner or later we had bunch of "bandits" who didn't necessarily want to play as bad guys but were essentially forced to shoot on sight as no one would trust them and they couldn't trust anyone anymore.

Also, the survivors had a whole aspect of the game(killing to survive for example) practically "disabled" as you couldn't kill anyone without getting a ban from coop side of the game.

You people should feel bad and uninstall your DayZ. This clearly isn't the game for you.

[Zoop 343]

Yes, a survivor skin is not a guarantee, that someone will not shoot you, but it is less likely than an encounter with a bandit.

Horse poop. I've been killed by more survivors than bandits.

On the other end of the spectrum, being a survivor is not a guarantee for being shot by a bandit. Having a bandit skin is a guarantee that the first survivor you come across is going to shoot you.

[The Killing Joke 43]

How about a distinctive hat/skin for whoever is more triggerhappy?' date=' like this, those that are impaired in communication (no microphone) can actually type in front of another survivor without the constant fear of getting a bullet in their head.[/quote']

Oh yeah, hats! Because that didn't completely ruin Team Fortress 2! Holy hell, really? REALLY? GORRAM HATS???!!

No. I'm sorry. My original opinion stands. I recognize that you feel it is a game, and that believe that knowing who your enemy is, is important to you. I disagree, and think the game is so much better when you do not know who your enemy is.

In fact, that's almost a need in game. We need the unknown element.

With it, you have a common enemy (zeds) that you know is out to get you. You have friends you believe that you can trust (at the very least, a high percentage of trust) and then you have strangers, who you have NO IDEA whether to trust or not.

That makes is awesome.

[baas (DayZ) 0]

The humanity turned the mod into a damn cops and robbers DTM. People shot the "opposite side" on sight and since most survivors had to kill someone sooner or later we had bunch of "bandits" who didn't necessarily want to play as bad guys but were essentially forced to shoot on sight as no one would trust them and they couldn't trust anyone anymore.

Than that would be considered as a "hard choice". If they play some time without killing somebody' date=' the survivor skin would appear again. Or they help others and undo their killing in this way.

Also, the survivors had a whole aspect of the game(killing to survive for example) practically "disabled" as you couldn't kill anyone without getting a ban from coop side of the game.

And the people that team up as bandits? Why shouldn't they be able to coop? There is clearly an incentive for them and bandit-bandit encounter would somehow be the same as it is now with the removal of bandit skin.

You people should feel bad and uninstall your DayZ. This clearly isn't the game for you.

And people like you should learn how to participate in a discussion. The Survivor/Bandit feature was in the game in the earlier versions and e.g. got a lot of positive feedback also from game magazines (rockpaper shot gun for example). It was considered as an innovative idea that brings a stunning dynamic into the game. To claim the game would clearly not be for people who disagree with you on this game.... is just idiotic.

[SockDog 0]

Humanity hasn't gone away only the clothes aspect of it, which sort of makes sense. I believe at some point it will be revisited and who's to know what impact that will have.

As has been said, the clothes aspect of it pretty much removed a lot of the discussion in a situation, it made everything black and white and that doesn't seem to be a thing that DayZ does.

[baas (DayZ) 0]

Yes' date=' a survivor skin is not a guarantee, that someone will not shoot you, but it is less likely than an encounter with a bandit.[/quote']

Horse poop. I've been killed by more survivors than bandits.

On the other end of the spectrum, being a survivor is not a guarantee for being shot by a bandit. Having a bandit skin is a guarantee that the first survivor you come across is going to shoot you.

You being killed by more survivors than bandits doesn't necessarily prove my argument wrong. I just said that a player assumes that the probability of a single survivor killing you is smaller than the probability that a bandit shoots you. He has less to loose. Now as there are more survivors than bandits it would not be uncommon that you fall to survivors quite often too. But you also meet more survivors who do not harm you than you meet bandits who do not kill you

[START 2]

The humanity turned the mod into a damn cops and robbers DTM.

So now its a survivor and survivor TDM. :rolleyes:

It did not worked pre 1.6 and it do not work now. Its hard to implement something that would solve this problem.

Because there a alot of douchebags, im not talking about bandits who kill in order to survive, but people having fun killing others to ruin their progress or give "you should not trust someone again" lessons.

Seems like there are A LOT more killing on sight after the patch so what is the suggestion? I only read about bandit skin being bad, its true, but what are you SUGGESTING instead? Some people should learn to discuss or to stfu.

The only things i can think of right now are more teamplay stuff like blood packs and a shortcut keys for yelling "FRIENDLY!!!" and "Give me your loot or I'll shoot!"

[baas (DayZ) 0]

How about a distinctive hat/skin for whoever is more triggerhappy?' date=' like this, those that are impaired in communication (no microphone) can actually type in front of another survivor without the constant fear of getting a bullet in their head.[/quote']

Oh yeah, hats! Because that didn't completely ruin Team Fortress 2! Holy hell, really? REALLY? GORRAM HATS???!!

No. I'm sorry. My original opinion stands. I recognize that you feel it is a game, and that believe that knowing who your enemy is, is important to you. I disagree, and think the game is so much better when you do not know who your enemy is.

In fact, that's almost a need in game. We need the unknown element.

With it, you have a common enemy (zeds) that you know is out to get you. You have friends you believe that you can trust (at the very least, a high percentage of trust) and then you have strangers, who you have NO IDEA whether to trust or not.

That makes is awesome.

I disagree and I think in some of your argument you are simplifing too much.

1. It is a game, that in some moments lets us partly forget it is one. Apart from the bandit thing there are a lot of other unrealistic - yet good - elements in it. For example in reality, you would be scared to die and therefore act cautious. Can't be simulated. In a video game you are not afraid of death. But you can be somehow afraid of loosing all your equipment you gathered. So this "parametrization" for fear of death is not realistic but serves its purpose very well. I think the same is true for the bandit/survivor distinction.

2. Yes, the game needs an unknown element. But it doesn't disappear with bandits in the game. The bandits are the people you usually don't trust at all, and the survivors are those who you don't know whether to trust. I think the bandit kind acts as a second threath besides the zombies and enhances the feeling of danger and need of cooperation with other survivors against both these dangers.

3. The point that is made so often, the argument that the system would not work properly, might be true. but it could be enhanced. Maybe it's possible to register when you shoot at a survivor. and if somebody shoots at you and you shoot back and kill him, then it could be counted as self defence.

[sephirotic (DayZ) 1]

i've playing a lot since the last patch and the game clearly became a TDM. TS parties killing lone survivors and other TS parties in 90% of time. People don´t care anymore about sparing each other. SPECIALLY if the other guy has good equip.

Sincerly, even tough i do play on a large group from a internet community and we are used to play with each other, after losing a full equiped char more than a couple of time, for either bandits or bugged zombies/glitches, i've completely lost patience, specially considering i loose lots of hours in my free time (that is small, since i work) to risk losing my equip. I wouldn´t actually hunt players down, but now i just shot on sight. ANYONE. even nubs with makarov, unless they are VERY far and heading to other direction, then ok, i won´t hunt then down.

Is this a good thing? Absolutely not. This is a game based on a MILITARY SIM, more focused on simulation than on balanced gameplay. However, there are some balance that can be implemented to try to achieve realism, and let's face it: The low value on a players Char compared to it's equip and survival is not realistic. IRL on an apocalypse zoombie, you would actually be glad, to find a group, even tough scared and cautious at first. In this game, you just think: "DAMN they are going to my loot spawn, gotta shoot then down". "Damn, they saw me with my DMR, won´t risk it, gonna shoot them down". "NICE! They have a good backpack, gotta shoot them down." Or simple: "LET'S KILL THOSE STUPID NUBS KILLING ZEDS IN CHERNO, just for the hell of it!".

No one actually thinks: "good, finally other people, better chance to survive, even tough i don´t know if they aren´t socyopaths", with would be a realistic posture.

So the current system is rubish, and so was the previous system.

I sincerly don´t have a good solution. I can only think badly in two pratical solutions (without impossible coding necessary)

1) A tag system. Player would actually tag someone UP or DOWN, and if you approach that person you can actually see their tag. (to a close distance)

2) Three level Skins. You start as a Survivor, and depending on your behavior with other players your humanity can go up or down. if it goes up, you turn into a "Savior", and gains the special hability to heal severe wounds. This is unrealistic? Not that much. A highly educated person like a medic, would be less likely to start killing people, so adding the ability to extra heal power would be good. While turning in a bandit wouldn´t actually have any disavantages apart from the skin itself. People would usually avoid you, (and even hunt you) and that's it. Maybe decreasing the abillity of healing of a survivor for just a basic auto-bandage, Also, a better system for "self-defense" and vengeance and increase the amount of kill till actually turning into a bandit.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

I played for a week as Survivor, without shooting to a single other player (including bandits). From when the bandit skin has been removed i had to kill four people within 2 hour of gameplay... because anyone is shooting at anyone, and you're forced to do so.

Now i'm doing exactly what the others are doing: i teamed with a community ("outside" of the game, since in-game you don't have any community "tool"), we have our TS, and we started to kill EVERYONE on sight. Most of the time we don't even go to check their equipment, since our is good enough, we only kill em because the gameplay is changed into a traditional FPS with a bigger map.

Finding food and water is a joke, it's everywhere, it's only a boring affair; avoid or kill zombies is another joke, and again it's boring because you can crawl and go where you need to go (frustrating more than scary/fun); so what you do? Easy: you "upgrade" your weapon like any other game and you start to shoot other players, more kills you do more skilled you are.. if you die, no problem: after 2 hours you have your gear back.

They have nullified the biggest and most interesting part of this game: the interaction with the other players. Yes you still see some ppl asking to team up in chat.. lol, most of them are newbie, after max 1 hour of playing they'll be "Bandits" like anyone else, since it's the only way to play right now.

Is this good or fun? Nope.. first or late we'll be bored of doing this, there's nothing to evolve into.

[batcaveslimer 12]

Plenty of food, plenty of water, ammo situation is moderate. Only reason for killing now is greed or to circumvent others greed. And since there are no repercussions for killing everyone/anyone most of people kill on sight. My team (of RL friends) avoids contact with everyone. If one of us plays solo, we avoid everyone as well. If we are playing solo we realise we will have to shoot first. We dont want to, it's just become good sense. If we get the drop on someone and call them out, we dont want to kill them on first sight, but comms in-game are inadequate for this.

No means of direct comms or other communications that is fast enough to resolve encounters satisfactorily. Longevity and frequency of playing the game within our group has fallen and with out the means of having peaceful encounters it will fall off completely soon.

I dont see how we can rebuild society or defend a town unless everyone starts putting "[FRIENDLY]" in front of their player name and starting a wide scale wild west style law enforcement campaign amongst the organised community.

I understand why you'd remove bandit skins. But I dont like it. If you have good equipment you can't afford to be friendly with anyone forcing the most successful players into banditry.

All this wouldn't be too bad if there was some reward for high humanity. Since there is no deterrent to murder (and it's near impossible for said 'law men' to hunt down murderers) the mod has entered a status quo of anarchy. The game will not advance from this state until something else changes.

[Leodor (DayZ) 0]

When the bandit skin was still around, the "fear" effect of becoming a bandit helped me not shoot everyone. Now that I am equipped, and there are currently no repercussions, it will be open season, simply to avoid someone else doing it to me and erasing my hard work.

I will agree that the survivor/bandit dichotomy was not ideal, this no consequences idea is not working either, IMO.

[IDex (DayZ) 4]

When the bandit skin was still around' date=' the "fear" effect of becoming a bandit helped me not shoot everyone. Now that I am equipped, and there are currently no repercussions, it will be open season, simply to avoid someone else doing it to me and erasing my hard work.

[/quote']

So you lack the balls/determination? And that's the game's problem exactly how? If can't handle it join the rest of the shoot-on-sight cowards.

When the skins were in the game I teamed up with every other survivor, it was way too easy. It's supposed to be a damn apocalypse. You don't just walk up to people and become friends with a minimal risk. The fact that now other players are better than any loot, but at the same time more dangerous than any amount of zeds could ever be. Makes my heart jump every time I have even glance at other survivor. And is as close to realism as it can get.

Why should teaming up and being a pacifist in a apocalypse easy? I sure as hell wouldn't be in real life. And unless you haven't noticed this is an anti-game and isn't supposed to limit players for the sake of "balance" as long as they aren't outright exploiting. So making arguments like "this is a game afterall" is inane.

[Zoop 343]

And people like you should learn how to participate in a discussion. The Survivor/Bandit feature was in the game in the earlier versions and e.g. got a lot of positive feedback also from game magazines (rockpaper shot gun for example). It was considered as an innovative idea that brings a stunning dynamic into the game. To claim the game would clearly not be for people who disagree with you on this game.... is just idiotic.

Are you kidding me? A meter that tracks your actions and changes your appearance accordingly? Seriously? Wow, that's unprecedented!

[angelofdev 0]

I was a survivor once.

Got killed by every survivor I came across.

Changed my stance to shoot first talk never. Now I'm alive for days rather than minutes.

Tried to gain humanity back. But when you've got a bandit skin, screaming "I'm friendly" in the chatbox/voip = no happy ending.

Humanity is way too hard to regain. Even if I managed to bandage or give blood transfusions to a survivor I only gained minuscule amount of humanity.

Not even close enough to help me out of -15000 humanity debt. Even if I managed to gain +2000 humanity an encounter with a survivor caused loss of progress.

This game is flawed not in the survivor/bandit transition but in the way Humanity was gained/lossed.

There are plenty of churches in the game. Maybe make it so if you go in/near the church your humanity increases at an increased rate. While killing in/near the church causes an increased loss of humanity.

If you find that causes certain people to get offended maybe gain more humanity by killing zombies or saving other survivors/bandits from zombies?

Or even make it that people with a positive humanity get more/better drops around their vicinity. While players with negative humanity get a slightly less/normal drops around them.

[TeaLeaf 5]

There are plenty of churches in the game. Maybe make it so if you go in/near the church your humanity increases at an increased rate. While killing in/near the church causes an increased loss of humanity.

If you find that causes certain people to get offended maybe gain more humanity by killing zombies or saving other survivors/bandits from zombies?

I don't find that offensive but the idea that being in a church someone makes you a better person is retarded.

[Nerggal 2]

Retarted is not the word.

Retarted is about someone who didnt choose his state of mind.

Think a church incrase humanity is just S T U P I D I T Y, I G N O R A N C E....

[Mokretsy 15]

I love this community, goddamnit!

[The Killing Joke 43]

I don't find that offensive but the idea that being in a church someone makes you a better person is retarded.

Gorram it, is r/atheism leaking this far into DayZ as well?!

;)

(Hoping that the 'gorram it' gives you an idea on which side of the argument I fall.)

[START 2]

Retarted is not the word.

Retarted is about someone who didnt choose his state of mind.

Think a church incrase humanity is just S T U P I D I T Y' date=' I G N O R A N C E....

[/quote']

The only stupid one i see is you ;)

Why do you offend him? Because he shared a thought that you dont like? LOL

And you even created a new account for it, pathetic..