Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[stephansabath@t-online.de 40]

Reaper, what do you expect?

We are not in position to expect something. If this feature will come next week, what will you do? Slash at rocket because it was said "thursday"?

Goerge Cloney in FroM Dusk Till Dawn: "Everybody, be cool. YOU, be cool!" ;)

[An-D-D 0]

Hey guys. I'm fairly new to this mod and have just signed up to the forums. Firstly I must say I am loving the mod - keep up the great work!

This post caught my eye as it potentially changes every encounter in the game. After some considered thinking, I do agree with the change. The bandit system was a good attempt to add some sort of "warning" system so to speak. It is flawed though, and unrealistic.

Removing the bandit skin is one thing, but it needs other work to support it. I would agree with those who are advocating being able to choose your clothes in spawn. I've no idea how possible this is within the game engine, but ideally you need a few hundred possible combinations for outfits. I play with friends, and I really need a way to to be able to identify my friends visually. At the moment, if I lose line of sight, I have to constantly keep asking them to confirm who they are on voice comms. With this new system, I could be looting a building with 3 or 4 friends, a "bandit" could sneak in and I'd have no way of knowing until he'd fired shots. At least with hundreds of different outfits (even if it's mainly just different colours), I'd instantly be able to recognise someone unfamiliar and take the appropriate caution. Maybe if choosing an appearance isn't possible within the engine, just litter the beach with hundreds of different skins that offer no benefit other than changing your appearance?

The more I think about this, the more I think it's the right direction to go. It is realistic, and I can imagine that it would work well. Sorry if this is going over old ground - I tried to skim read as much of the thread as possible but there are a lot of pages!

See you guys around :)

Andy

[zealous 13]

I'm hoping that it's delayed because clothes will be included in the same patch :D

[benjybums 0]

I've been reading in this forum for a little while now' date=' and I see that most people argue about survivor vs bandits. If the bandit-skin stays, its easier for survivors to identify them, and if the skin were removed it would be easier for bandits to hide.

I think that most of you have lost sight of what this mod really is: A survival of the fittest - mod. It's not one side versus the other, it's all versus all. I myself rarely trusts anyone in the game, and I tend to wait in the shadows untill they are gone, or if they come to close I shoot them, mostly because I have been in need of food, water, bandages or anything else I need. I am a survivor, and you all are my enemies untill proven otherwise.

[/quote']

That is perfect :) thats exactly why and how i play this game.

You sir have got it right !

[An-D-D 0]

I've been reading in this forum for a little while now' date=' and I see that most people argue about survivor vs bandits. If the bandit-skin stays, its easier for survivors to identify them, and if the skin were removed it would be easier for bandits to hide.

I think that most of you have lost sight of what this mod really is: A survival of the fittest - mod. It's not one side versus the other, it's all versus all. I myself rarely trusts anyone in the game, and I tend to wait in the shadows untill they are gone, or if they come to close I shoot them, mostly because I have been in need of food, water, bandages or anything else I need. I am a survivor, and you all are my enemies untill proven otherwise.

[/quote']

That is perfect :) thats exactly why and how i play this game.

You sir have got it right !

I agree that this is the way the game should be played! :)

My only concern is it's going from being too easy to identify hostiles, to almost impossible. It's going to be really easy for bandits to just blend in. At least if you have lot's of different possible outfits, you can identify your friends and can be cautious when you spot unfamiliar people. It would also make it harder for a bandit to "escape" - if you see who killed you, you can tell your friends what they were wearing so they can identify them.

I can see why this may seem irrelevant for those who tend to play solo and avoid contact with others wherever possible. However, if you play in a group I'm sure you will know where I'm coming from on this.

[zorg_dk 30]

yeah well put DRHTX.

[benjybums 0]

This game has a very ultra realistic theme, which is great and its why i play BUT

the bandit system should never have been put in ... if it wasnt put in then noone would be moaning now. Hindsight is a bitch

Bandits going are just another part of the realistic puzzle just wish they were never in to begin with, made the game easier by giving someone to hate.

[husker 0]

Reaper' date=' what do you expect?

We are not in position to expect something. If this feature will come next week, what will you do? Slash at rocket because it was said "thursday"?

Goerge Cloney in FroM Dusk Till Dawn: "Everybody, be cool. YOU, be cool!" ;)

[/quote']

I know, he knew and you know which Thursday he meant, and you're being a little harsh in your post claiming I will "slash" out at rocket. I was nothing but civil in my post and have every right as you or anyone to discuss something and to be displeased with something.

[BurstFire (DayZ) 1]

An update on what's going on would be nice, seeing how this update was set for arrival yesterday.

[Sev (DayZ) 1]

An update on what's going on would be nice' date=' seeing how this update was set for arrival yesterday.

[/quote']

Just sit tight for a little. Rocket's probably sleeping. According to his profile, it's 1am where he lives. He's usually awesome about informing us in a timely manner. Once he's up and about, he'll probably give us an update, or just work on the thing and get it out sooner.

[agentlucien 12]

I hope it comes today/in the next few days rather than next week, I can't wait to find some awesome skins.

[BurstFire (DayZ) 1]

If anything, I just wouldn't mind seeing the different types of skins we'll have available to us. Then again that might get people overly excited lol. Gonna have people killing others for skins now :p Though hopefully finding clothing should be reasonably common.

[Ivashka 0]

Not as big of a deal as most people make it out to be - it's a healthy step toward realism.

Also, if you are on a regular server where names highlight on aim it's easy enough to call out bandits in side chat, so that people can watch out for them. On veteran servers this will be problematic. However, won't this introduce a new level of excitement into the gameplay? You will know that if you are playing on veteran, then you can only really tell people apart by their appearance (maybe), and if a bandit is really dedicated to staying anonymous, then he will be searching for new outfits all the time - like I said it adds to the gameplay.

Oh and the idea of adding objectives into DayZ is, in my personal opinion, a terrible idea. Lack of an objective system allows people to just think for themselves amd act accordingly, instead of turning into a goal driven heard of sheep. If Rocket does implement an objective feed (/barf) then maybe it could be a per-server optional feature, indepemdent of the main mod.

TL;DR- morphing unnecessary, objectives bad ... mmmkay

[husker 0]

Not as big of a deal as most people make it out to be - it's a healthy step toward realism.

Also' date=' if you are on a regular server where names highlight on aim it's easy enough to call out bandits in side chat, so that people can watch out for them. On veteran servers this will be problematic. However, won't this introduce a new level of excitement into the gameplay? You will know that if you are playing on veteran, then you can only really tell people apart by their appearance (maybe), and if a bandit is really dedicated to staying anonymous, then he will be searching for new outfits all the time - like I said it adds to the gameplay.

Oh and the idea of adding objectives into DayZ is, in my personal opinion, a terrible idea. Lack of an objective system allows people to just think for themselves amd act accordingly, instead of turning into a goal driven heard of sheep. If Rocket does implement an objective feed (/barf) then maybe it could be a per-server optional feature, indepemdent of the main mod.

TL;DR- morphing unnecessary, objectives bad ... mmmkay

[/quote']

When the update comes out, hovering over someone won't say Bandit anymore, that's the point of all this.

[Ivashka 0]

When the update comes out, hovering over someone won't say Bandit anymore, that's the point of all this.

That's not what I meant. I was saying that, after you get screwed by a bandit you can warn the rest of the server by calling out his name to them.

I'll admit that this would make run-ins with bandits more uncomfortable to some, but there is still an element of forewarning out there if you pay attention (or care enough to warn others).

Edit: lol quote fail

[kveldulv_halvard 1]

Rocket' date=' dayz should stay to a zombie sim. IRL you would have no idea on who to trust, everyone who whines about not being able to tell friend from foe shouldn't be playing a game where society collapses and its up to you to do as you wish, and survive.

[/quote']

I agree completely. I became a bandit because 2 survivors were shooting at me even though i was a survivor and took my legs out so in defense of myself i dropped them both thus becoming a bandit and now everyone shoots at me on sight for defending myself and again the rut continues of me shooting back to defend myself pushing me further into the negative humanity score with extreme times to get my humanity back to +2000 just to turn back to a survivor to "hopefully reduce" the possibility of someone shooting me for my beans. This topic of "oh they have a bandit skin they are evil shoot them" to "Oh they are a survivor they are not going to shoot me" is completely irrelevant and bullshit. I have seen just as many bandits shoot at me as i have survivors shoot at me during the times i was a survivor.

Come on you pansy ass carebear cry baby butt hurt bitch boys. Dont you understand that if you have malice intent your NOT going to try to make yourself stand out by putting on a shemagh and camos. Wake the fuck up and take a sniff of reality, it damn sure doesnt smell like roses. Stop your bitching and complaining.

I vote do away with bandit skin system roll out the skins/cloths you can find in the world, hell go a step further and make it so that you have a menu option to steal the cloths of the person your dropped if you like what they have on, but make the clothing change permanent for sure even after death.

[Razumen 0]

I don't really think skins should be lootable off of dead bodies. Think about it: unless they died of starvation or something similar, their body is likely to be riddled with bullet holes or zombie bits and their clothes will be full of holes and bloody-then there's the lengthy and potentially gruesome job of stripping their dead body, yuck. Good luck trying to do that in Cherno haha.

[Chalas 1]

Idk, I kinda liked the idea to reduce the amount of griefing. The game is already turning into a CoD where kids are killing left an right for the kill count and griefing effect, not to survive.

My main concern is that psicologists, the media, and companies alike are already quantifying the "griefing," effect. This will not only affect how future games are made, but will also get legislation going. Some games already took steps against it by eradicating or nerfing PVP. It is true that mods may change the core experience to return PVP to a game, but vague legislation would then be pushed to "protect."

A system where a player that kills too many people on a certain amount of time that would make an unrealistic survival attempt is marked as not trusted could very well preserve the core nature of PVP as a sport, while reducing griefing.

[callahan9119 7]

It was the only thing that controlled psychopathic behavior. Just because it's a nightmare scenario, doesn't mean there wouldn't be repercussions and consequences. "Realism" to many of these people is a deathmatch with zombies adorning the landscape.

You're not killing people over beans, you're killing them because you're too fucking lazy to walk two minutes away and grab some out of a barn. People kill in this game mostly just because they can, without any of the real emotional toll and societal consequences that would normally occur. You're acting like a murdering psychopath because you know it's a game. Arguments about realism when not balanced by gameplay considerations are stupid.

This isn't real life, it is a game, a game which is incapable of properly replicating real human interactions.

The bandit mechanic should have been improved, not removed. The threshold should have been higher to become one and the value that controls it should gradually diminish over time.

It let the players decide what to do about a person. It let the community police itself. You want to be an outcast and pariah but you don't want to deal with the consequences.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Exact, it's not just about the skin, whenever the skin were (someway) helping to avoid those CoD style playing. But before deciding to remove them, they should deploy an alternate system to avoid to transform the game into a deathmatch.

You really need one day to collect MANY weapons, almost any tool, the only rare things are the M249 and the NV... the rest is damn easy to find, especially the food. So saying: we kill ppl for food is only a stupidity, you kill ppl because this type of game doesn't fit you: you want the action, you're used to play those traditional FPS, you get bored so fast.

I see ppl spawing and go intentionally into the "action" in cherno, to do some "duels", then respawn again and again and repeat it forevere.

There's must be a way to incentivate the "surviving" behavior.. like increasing blood reserve for the hours spent alive, and these such things, otherwise with this infinite lifes the game will never turn into the reality (a marakov is enough for a deathmatch).

[JohnnyDerp 4]

200 and some square kilometers with max 50 people. This is nothing like a CoD game. If you keep dying to other players, stop being impatient/lazy/stupid.

[Chalas 1]

200 and some square kilometers with max 50 people. This is nothing like a CoD game. If you keep dying to other players' date=' stop being impatient/lazy/stupid.

[/quote']

Nicely missed the whole point. There is already no incentive to survive (which was the point of this survival sim) and now that there is no repercussion for killin the game will just become an deathmatch Arma game.

I like your passive agresive tone, but as far as I have read no one is complaining about dying too much. Perhaps you will when we all camp at the beach, since there is no need to 'survive,' and no penalty for doing deathmatch all day.

[Sweedums 10]

This thread is way too long now to go through, so this may have been said before, but anyways, these are my thoughts.

We should not punish bandits. at all. it is a legit way to play and though it is annoying to be killed by a bandit, to punish them would go a ways to defeating the point of the mod, which is to survive, in ANY way you can. having the "bandit skin" punishes players, as many have pointed out, sometimes unjustly. but even when punished justly, being simply labelled as a bandit is just not what this mod is about. there is no specific way to play, or not play. you just survive, either by avoiding players, or by killing them.

I do however, think there should be some new incentives to working together with others. I'm not sure what these incentives should be, but i'm sure some of you guys could think of something that would work and make sense (there is obviously the incentive that, by working together, you are naturally stronger...). An incentive to play nice with others is different to a punishment for not playing nice with others, and in the case of this game, i think it would be the better route to take.

as it stands, there are already some incentives to play nice, such as blood transfusions needing a 2nd person to apply it. more things like this are needed, so it is still possible to play alone, or as a bandit, but it is far easier to play nice and cooperate.

EDIT: i dont get why people always hang around cherno and elektro and then moan about bandits killing them. seems a bit silly to me. I am yet to experience this "deathmatch" people talk about, surely the easiest way to avoid it, would be to go inland? it's a piece of cake to avoid players inland.

[Tassadarh 2]

200 and some square kilometers with max 50 people. This is nothing like a CoD game. If you keep dying to other players' date=' stop being impatient/lazy/stupid.

[/quote']

This.

Full PVP and permadeath is what makes this game so different from the other thousand games out there.

If you keep ranting just because you got killed maybe THIS isn't the game for you.

Dying is part of the game. You don't want to kill someone? Good. But that's YOUR choice.

Most of the time doing the right thing (eg. not killing someone) is very unlikely the more logical thing to do, especially in this situation when "Kill or be killed" is something you have to deal every hour of gameplay. You shouldn't kill someone because that's a moral rule YOU have imposed on yourself. We shouldn't "be good" just because "otherwise I get punished". That's a very hypocritical approach on "being good".

We came into this game because it was unfair, unbalanced and most importantly different. This is a tornado of fresh air in gaming. For ages we had to deal with EXTREMELY EASY games and gameplay. Now we have DayZ. Let us play.

[seannybgoode 10]

^^ Agree.