Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[ATao 15]

In dense woodland a good group of 2-4 ppl will circle you and get you. Or you'll disconnect. Trees are providing enough cover for attackers. And I'm not going to argue about your' or their' skill level here. Go shout about how kewl you are to someone else ;) .

Playing bandit in current disposition is in no way easier or more difficult than any other role. You can still be killed like anyone else. It's a question of one's readiness to defend himself and nothing else. And when skill (experience) level of players is comparable it's all about numbers.

[Johnnyseven 1]

In dense woodland a good group of 2-4 ppl will circle you and get you. Or you'll disconnect. Trees are providing enough cover for attackers. And I'm not arguing about your' or their' skill level here. Go shout about how kewl you are to someone else ;) .

Playing bandit in current disposition is in no way easier or more difficult than any other role. You can still be killed like anyone else. It's a question of one's readiness to defend himself and nothing else.

I never mentioned that I was particularly good. I just said that I could do it, not that others cant, sniping isn't hard, and given that I could sit in a bush a mile away from a town and shoot people who are in said town, surrounded by zombies, I'm pretty sure we know who has the easier deal right there. If you choose the right kind of tree/bush to lay in people can, and do, walk right past you without noticing. I never said all parties were in dense woodland, only the shooter.

"Bandits" have it easier because they can just lie in wait outside a town, they don't have to move at all or put themselves at risk. If they aren't sure they can defeat a individual/group, then who cares, they can just let them pass. Defensive snipers, which most "bandits" are ("defending" a hangar for instance), do have the advantage and that's why they are so feared in reality as well as many videogames.

The "bandits" that I know of are basically "campers". People complain about this playstyle's effectiveness enough in your standard FPS, throw in permadeath, extreme map sizes and a countryside setting and it becomes even more powerful. I understand that DayZ is going for a harsh reality feel but it is still a game (or mod for one, whatever) and games need to be at least remotely "fair" and give all reasonable playstyles a fair chance.

By the way, if you're the kind of bandit/group of bandits that doesnt just randomly snipe people from a day away, I have no big issues with you.

[ATao 15]

Shooting moving target from 800+ meters is not that easy. Especially if that guy knows that there may be a sniper. Yes it's a piece of cake to kill some nab in Cherno who doesn't know the layout of the city and never checked for good sniping spots. But if it's an experienced survivor or other sniper who knows where to look and when to move real quickly to avoid being hit... good chances are that you'll miss your first shot or won't 1shot him. And after that if you won't change your position quickly you may soon find that he had some friend on his ts\vent\skype\whatever and they are going to you from behind.

tl;dr:

Killing noobs is always easy, different story with veterans and groops with good coordination. Noobs are plenty right now. For now.

>>>By the way, if you're the kind of bandit/group of bandits that doesnt just randomly snipe people from a day away, I have no big issues with you.

It's all about experience man, believe me. If it's a lone sniper on lets say nw airport fs yes he may be annoying at first. But later you know that someone can sit there. You go prepared, from the right side, have cover etcetc. There's no need for any gamemechanics changes as everything is already there. Learn the terrain, people's behaviour and there you go you aren't scared of random bandit anymore.

Also this "lonely sniper threat" is countered more easily when you are not alone yourself. Partners can cover your back, spot that sniper and countersnipe him, patch you up etc. So in fact bandits are proving a good reason for other players to cooperate to have better chances of survival. And I've seen people in other threads asking for more reasons to cooperate. It's already there. Bandits alone are reason enough. And when we return to numbers... yep you can find someone trustworthy to help you from those >80%, your enemies still remain <20%.

[RJLupin2 3]

I mentioned this idea in another thread, and I'd like to bring it up here, but first I want to ask if it's been said before (which I'm sure it has.) The idea in question is what if there were a penalty for dying that would keep people from getting themselves in positions where all they do is murder/bandit? In reality, death is, as far as we know, final. If we all had unlimited lives in reality, what would prevent someone from killing as many people as they can before being offed themselves just to respawn a few minutes later and do it all over again? Morality? Nah.

I think a heavy penalty for death in general would really separate the trolls from the real bandits.

EDIT: Lol, and I think this idea is actually actively being discussed above. Ignore this post in that case.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I think a heavy penalty for death in general would really separate the trolls from the real bandits.

I would think this would be the opposite. You may have people who are more cautious, yes. But, the whole 'last man standing' mentality would still exist in some regard.

[Johnnyseven 1]

I mentioned this idea in another thread' date=' and I'd like to bring it up here, but first I want to ask if it's been said before (which I'm sure it has.) The idea in question is what if there were a penalty for dying that would keep people from getting themselves in positions where all they do is murder/bandit? In reality, death is, as far as we know, final. If we all had unlimited lives in reality, what would prevent someone from killing as many people as they can before being offed themselves just to respawn a few minutes later and do it all over again? Morality? Nah.

I think a heavy penalty for death in general would really separate the trolls from the real bandits.

[/quote']

This will punish the victims of bandits more than the bandits themselves dont you think?

[RJLupin2 3]

I would think this would be the opposite. You may have people who are more cautious' date=' yes. But, the whole 'last man standing' mentality would still exist in some regard.

[/quote']

This will punish the victims of bandits more than the bandits themselves dont you think?

Perhaps, but I think it'd be worth a trial run to see the effects anyway. I can honestly see both sides, I just feel there's no real way (in my creatively limited mind) to make it realistic if there isn't some sort of strong penalty for death. It's the driving force behind literally almost every thing we do, after all.

[blitzcloud 1]

It would just make the bandits feel more like trolling.

[reuben5150 83]

I'm not saying i know or think how things will change' date=' i'm saying things [b']have to change.

Well, shit. Then, we're arguing the same damn thing. I'd like to say it's the zeds fault. They're too damn easy to avoid or kill. (And it's no damn fun to run from them any more - I aggro fifty of them, then, can't find anyone to drag 'em to.)

I'd like to think so, next patch looks like a step forward anyway.

Its true that zombies have been too "easy" although last night we experienced something rather different, for whatever on this US server all the zombies were going mental like they had extended awareness and in greater numbers, the whole town must have emptied into this one church and we made the biggest pile of bodies i've ever seen, this continued across the fields.

Point is that lastnight the PVP "issue" never crossed our minds and anyone else in the area wouldn't even think of coming near what was going on there, or most people anyway.

[blitzcloud 1]

I'm not saying i know or think how things will change' date=' i'm saying things [b']have to change.

Well, shit. Then, we're arguing the same damn thing. I'd like to say it's the zeds fault. They're too damn easy to avoid or kill. (And it's no damn fun to run from them any more - I aggro fifty of them, then, can't find anyone to drag 'em to.)

I'd like to think so, next patch looks like a step forward anyway.

Its true that zombies have been too "easy" although last night we experienced something rather different, for whatever on this US server all the zombies were going mental like they had extended awareness and in greater numbers, the whole town must have emptied into this one church and we made the biggest pile of bodies i've ever seen, this continued across the fields.

Point is that lastnight the PVP "issue" never crossed our minds and anyone else in the area wouldn't even think of coming near what was going on there, or most people anyway.

We got like 150 zombies in one chernogorsk house. Like... they never stopped coming. Eventually, we got out of ammo.

[Digoso 1]

why not make the zombies see the person which has Humanity too low far far away .. and even when they prone .. So try to make your humanity high or the zombies will spawn more and more ... and they can see you most easily. Rocket Think about!

[Kageru 18]

I'm sorry I missed bandit skins, it sounds like a much better game than the current one. Though Bandit skins don't make sense some sort of "I recognize that guy! he's a known mass-murderer" is pretty much needed to encourage co-operation. Especially when the "I'm friendly!" communication range is 40m and the lethal range of guns is rather larger.

Watching the bandits do the "yeah, I'm friendly, where shall we meet?" in global chat is funny but you just know some new player is about to have a bad experience and it poisons the idea of co-operation (unless formed out of game). Apparently tonights guy drops gear for them and then caps them when they go to pick it up, and with no indication of the fact the guy is an active PK it's easy as long as anyone believes they can have a co-operative experience in the game. Will probably work even better when global is removed so they can't warn others on the server.

Still, also funny going back and reading the early posts...

[Seradest 2]

sorry for my bad english.

My Bandit system:

1.the is an black board ingame and you can read/sea "wanted" picture on it.

2.When you use this board you can write an name down and a bounty.

3.at the same time you can read other bountys.

4.when you do it,your charakter know were is an bandit and were not.

5.when you now see an other player and he stand on the list hist name has an different color or a speciel symbol.

6.when you read the bounty list you can accept an bounty,kill the bandit and becam in an special place a gift for it or a good karma point.

7.only users can be write down on the bounty list that you has see with you charakter.

that means when you see an user that killed an other user you can pick his name in the list and chose it...... you can not write names with the keyboard.

the karma system:

1.Everyone that join a server the first time has karma 0

2.user with karma over 10 can not be write down on the bounty list.

3.user that has karma points 9 and below can be write down on bounty list.

4.is the karma in the negativ area (-1 -2 -3 etc) you charakter became negative personalyti effects

maybe you cant make an team with an user that has 0 or more karma points.

maybe you only can team up with an user that has negative points

maybe when an user with positve points make an team with you he loses all his karma points

to -1 but only when he make this

5.to make positive karma points you must

kill zombies (30 Zeds = 1 point )

heal other player (1 heal = 1 point..... heal an bandit = points)you can only became points for heal every 2 ingame hour.

transport as an driver of an vehicle 1 user over an distance of 10km (= 1 point)

6.there is an hear list too

when more than 100 people write you name here down (they must see you and see that you make anything to get an karma point) you became a gift and 10 karma points

and you can make hero missions from the goverment after this.

BUT when you make bandits things you loste for every bad thing 5 Karma points.

and when your points gets to 0 or negativ you not any longer on the hero list.

[Rawse 0]

The current heartbeat system is really bad, it needs to be removed totally. You need to be in a very close range, and most of the time if someone aims at me, they are about to shoot.

I can see Rocket is trying to indirectly promote team-play in other ways, but all its doing is promoting players to team-up outside of game. I miss hunting bandits, I miss the intensity of seeing another survivor and not knowing if you can trust them (you'd be stupid to trust anyone in the current version, unless you're totally desperate).

I loved not killing on sight, but now I kill anyone I see looking at me from a distance (or if they just pop out of nowhere at me). The old bandit skins made survivors feel good for killing bandits and dealing justice; while punishing bandits just the right amount. Its been said a thousand times, but either give benefits to the good, or make life more difficult for the bad.

The bandit system was one of the defining features of the mod when it exploded in popularity.

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

As the title said' date=' the Bandit/Survivor morphing will be removed. You will find skins around the world, that you can wear if you choose. Humanity will be retained for an undisclosed purpose.

Because humanity is the feature DayZ deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll remove bandit transitions, because its not helping. Because its not a good feature. Humanity remains as a silent guardian, watchful protector. An ... unfinished feature.

Please abuse/fanboy below so I can feast on your delicious tears...

SO can we see how much humanity we have then, before 1.7.1.5 we could see it and mine would reset randomly, if its back to low again id like to keep it that way but if its high then ill keep on shootin. id like to know how i should play the game.

[vran113 0]

1.the is an black board ingame and you can read/sea "wanted" picture on it.

2.When you use this board you can write an name down and a bounty.

what's the point, if you can't see a players name in-game?

[deathlok69 2]

I don't understand what this means. Can someone please explain... =0(

[Turk (DayZ) 82]

The "bandit skin" was removed, i assume, due to it being considered diserable as in an encouragement to kill for no other reason than getting an upgrade aka "better"/unique clothing rather than a deterant as in "oh look a baddy, avoid that scumbag".

Loose Humanity Loose Your Sunny Outlook.

How about using the humanity meter to "change" the offenders view as you aren't seeing the whole long term survival picture such as 2 people being chased by zeds ='s 50% less chance of being killed and so on, so should you loose colour (after all its all just black & white for "them" anyway :) Colour loss similar to the losing blood mech.

On a scale of 1 to 10.

1 to 5 kills = loss of colour until B&W then 6-10 kills = shaking until its nigh on impossible to aim.

Varying increasing increments starting from 1-5, with 5 kills gaining the award of a pure (lifeless, heartless) black & white view.

From 6 - 10 starts the spiral into psychosis with "the guilt shakes".

Psychos should shake with guilt.

Once past the pure B&W stage murders (their not bandits) begin to add shake (going crazy, all them psychos should shake with guilt :)

Colour & shakeing can be regained / removed by giving people blood transfusions. On a 1/1 ratio. 1st 2 kills won't be too serious (accidents) but the 3rd is a noticable loss of colour (maybe just keep/add a shade of red also?)

To avoid abusing the system too badly give half as much colour return for the 2nd, 3rd & 4th transfusions if it is given to the same person in the same 12 hour period and continue halving again for the 5th and halve again for the 6th & so on. So you'd never practically get above regaining 4 "karma" points without a crazy amount of effort.

This should encourage giving them to different survivors & hopefully discourage player killing for simply no reason other than because you can.

Return of the Bandit. Stand & Deliver (afterall its BANDIT not psycho pointless killer.)

I've often wondered why the word Bandit had been used as it is technically incorrect so the following suggestion may return validity to the term.

Get close enough to victim, Press G & hold down another key (or scroll wheel selection) to "hold someone up" with either an animation or just the action and on screen words "you have a gun to your head, hand over the goodies".

Makeing it possible to "hold someone up" to steal their stuff rather than kill them would justify the term Bandit and be quite a cool addition to the already stealth heavy mechanics of the game AND I'd happily be "mugged" considering the alternative.

The addition of being able sneak up on someone with the ultimate aim of disarming them aswell as preventing them from escaping so as to rifle through their belongings would not only be challenging (far more so than clicking a mouse it would also not alert the bloodthirsty natives.

The mugger would have to be close enought to trigger the "stand & deliver" scenario. within so many in game feet not too dissimilar to getting wood from trees yet would have the same properties of a bear trap.

I'd imagine a key or key combo would have to be held down for the duration. It would make sense if it were G & either a scroll wheel selection or preferablly another key for ease. If either key were let go the victim could escape and possibly be shot, as IRL, for their troubles. Run Forest Run? minus the weapon in hand which of course the initial "Stand & Deliver" mech would place in your backpack with the risk of replacing items but hey it was dropped in the scuffle.

In addition bear traps could also be used for similar fun & games. Moist likely the person will concede and disconnect long before "Bear Grylls" would return so this action would automatically be considered a death but the person & more importantly the items will remain for the duration the trap setter remains on the server.

What do you guys think>? Has all this been proposed before? Please let me know if it has or past it on if it hasn't.

[-=seany=- 65]

There are so many threads and even this is so long, forgive me if this has been mentioned. But...how about instead of being able to identify a bandit, you could identify a trust worthy Survivor? Like, the longer you have been playing and not killed a human you are more identifiable as a trust worthy person some how. This bit I haven't really thought of, perhaps it could be skin related, or audio related, like the previous bandit identifiers. Or some thing else. Preferably with incremental levels

Bandits don't want to be instantly recognisable. But I think trust worthy survivors would not mind if they became recognisable over time as trust-able.

[Ganjastar 53]

What do you guys think>? Has all this been proposed before? Please let me know if it has or past it on if it hasn't.

if you want to play a coop PvE game, i suggest you check out killing floor. retarded ideas that reward coop and punish PvP are not going to be implemented in this game.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Dumb and dangerous situation should be PUNISHED like they are punished in real life. In this game they are not, this is why we are having PvP only gameplay.

This is the main "problem" of this game, aka: this why this game is (currently) much far from the real life, supposedly it is intended as a "simulator".

(and no, die and respawn after 10 seconds is not enough as punishment.. especially when you have weapons all around you and you can have a fully military gear within 1 hour)

[Kageru 18]

Heh, the hard core PvP players probably have enough looted weapons stashed (or get their gear back from their team mates) that death isn't much of a penalty. For a solo player though it's many hours of gameplay reset to zero.

[97ADU Doug 103]

Because humanity is the feature DayZ deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll remove bandit transitions, because its not helping. Because its not a good feature. Humanity remains as a silent guardian, watchful protector. An ... unfinished feature.

Does anyone else think this sounds like an abbreviation of Commissioner Gordon's description of batman at the end of the dark night?

If someone else has pointed that out, no need for rage, i wasn't going to read through 90 pages...

Well food for thought.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

We don't know much about the intention... but we know that after removing it the things didn't improved at all, but gone worse. In fact the devs had to develop some alternatives (currently the heartbeat .. that doesn't works that great).

It would have made much more sense to think about the alternative ant THEN remove the bandit skin.

[reverend 0]

I propose a new bandit skin...