Dayz's Flawed Foundations: Movement and Gunplay

[DefectiveWater 491]

6 minutes ago, General Zod said:

That I own all of the Playstation consoles.

Wow, and? The discussion isn't about how many consoles you got, discussion is about what DayZ dumbed down to make the game more appealing to consoles.

All I see is baseless hate towards console players and 0 examples of how consoles made DayZ worse.

Edited January 19, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[General Zod 1114]

1 minute ago, DefectiveWater said:

Wow, and? The discussion isn't about how many consoles you got, discussion is about what DayZ dumbed down to make the game more appealing to consoles.

All I see is baseless hate towards console players and 0 reasons why consoles made DayZ worse.

It means that I'm not blaming consoles for the state of dayz and that my post was sarcasm. The only reason DayZ is the mess it is the devs and their lack of effort in fixing this game. 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

It's not a conspiracy theory.  The character controller was designed to make the game work on consoles.  I believe a former dev said as much, but I cannot find the source.  What do you think the recently introduced hitmarker controversy was all about?  They would have never dreamed of this if it were a PC only title as originally planned. 

Development has been a shitshow from almost the beginning, but it wasn't until the very public moves to get that console money did the shitshow begin to contain massive quantities of diarrhea mixed in.  

AND THE REASON those servers are more popular is the NET RESULT of moving the game away from more hardcore survival to something the mass and casuals can tolerate.  Vanilla is exactly that VANILLA.  Any run of the mill survival game can match it.  Casuals can plkay on the coast for 30 minutes, laugh there ass off punching people in the face, and then go play Call of Duty for a better shooter.  Most probably never dive into the survival aspects because on Vanilla, you don't need to.  You may have to eat and drink, and wrap a cut or two, but that's it.  It's easy mode and over the years has become more easy mode to keep those casuals involved.

[DefectiveWater 491]

31 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

The character controller was designed to make the game work on consoles.

And is the game any worse with the new character controller? New character controller is obviously unfinished.
Buggy falling animation when you are next to a wall, no inertia, no weight, leaning while sprinting, zooming up the mountains like Usain Bolt...

31 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

What do you think the recently introduced hitmarker controversy was all about? 

This is the only fair point you could make about dumbing the game down, but that is not consoles fault. Console players never asked for it, neither did PC players. If it was console fault you would have easy mode servers only on console and PC would have only hardcore servers, but it's not like that.

31 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Most probably never dive into the survival aspects because on Vanilla, you don't need to.

31 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

It's easy mode and over the years has become more easy mode to keep those casuals involved.

Not a console issue, it was like that always. Played on 0.4 something version several years ago and lived only on canned tuna because I couldn't be bothered with opening it with a knife or can opener. Didn't even need to hunt or fish, and we played in a group of 3.

If anything it's harder now with all the immune system changes and zed changes. Food is still as common as it always has been.
Console and PC players here on the forum have been begging for more survival focus for a long time. You are blaming the wrong side.

31 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Development has been a shitshow from almost the beginning

Second fair statement you made. DayZ never had an engine ready, everything made prior to the last 3 years has been pretty much scrapped except asset models and textures, maybe some sounds too. What we are pretty much playing is a alpha/beta state game that has been somewhat polished to be playable.

This is obvious when you look at the game version jumping from 0.64 to 1.0 cause console makers were not happy with the game being published and unfinished for so long so they had to stop with Early Access shenanigans.

DayZ has been a testing platform for the new Enfusion engine, that's the reason why there are so many issues today. Not because of consoles.

Edited January 19, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

If you don't believe that dangling console money in front of BI did not seriously impact both development AND the nature of the game, then you are willfully choosing to be in denial of reality.  You make fair points but you never fully accept the large picture.  If DayZ had stayed a PC Only game as originally intended, then we would have a better product and it be in a better state, probably wouldn't be perfect but I seriously believe it would be better if consoles were taken out of the picture.

[General Zod 1114]

1 hour ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

If you don't believe that dangling console money in front of BI did not seriously impact both development AND the nature of the game, then you are willfully choosing to be in denial of reality.  You make fair points but you never fully accept the large picture.  If DayZ had stayed a PC Only game as originally intended, then we would have a better product and it be in a better state, probably wouldn't be perfect but I seriously believe it would be better if consoles were taken out of the picture.

Unless console players somehow convinced the devs to port the game to consoles instead of improving the PC version this isn't their fault. The only ones who are at fault here are the devs who decided to follow the greed knowing they have a game with more issues than features and instead fixing it for all of the platforms they decided that less than half assed product will be fine as long as the money comes in. It's as if you think console players don't want to play well developed, polished up games. Just because someone has less buttons to work with or doesn't have overly expensive hardware doesn't make them a casual second grade gamer. In fact the additional income from all the console sales should help devs fix the issues this games had for a better part of a decade now. 

Every single time a game is an unfinished buggy turd the only ones responsible for that mess are the developers. 

It's like a car driver hitting a pot hole and saying it's the bikers fault. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by General Zod

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

In a way we are all saying the same thing.  Really dumb decisions by BI has made this an "almost" game.

[General Zod 1114]

No we're not, you're blaming consoles for the decisions that Bi made. There are thousands upon thousands games that are available for both PC and consoles that are properly developed and fully functional. Porting the game for consoles should make BI even more driven to fix it, since if the game was working well I'd sell more even copies. 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

NEVER put words in my mouth.  Learn to read.  I don't blame consoles, I blame BI, thus, when I say we are saying the same thing in general I meant it.  I said if consoles were never part of the deal we would have been better off.  BI made that decision, DUH!

3 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Really dumb decisions by BI has made this an "almost" game.

Edited January 19, 2022 by THEGordonFreeman

[DefectiveWater 491]

(nvm, dont care, deleted my post)

Edited January 19, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

6 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

(nvm, dont care, deleted my post)

Of course you did.

Edited January 20, 2022 by THEGordonFreeman

[DefectiveWater 491]

19 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

And BI made that decision, what's your point?

My point is you are blaming console market for an unfinished game... literally 0 features have been added to make it easier for consoles.

Character controller was gonna change anyway, they are testing the new engine with DayZ, character controller is part of the new engine.
Nothing wrong with having new character controller that works with controllers and keyboards, old engine was pure garbage.

And if you are going onto such a big rant just because hit indicators, you gotta be kidding me if you blame that on console market...

I guess the point is that we actually agree that BI made a mistake by releasing the game so early and unfinished, but the hatred towards consoles is unnecessary.

Edited January 19, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

I never stated I hated consoles.  You still have comprehension problems.

Edited January 19, 2022 by THEGordonFreeman

[Parazight 1594]

They got rid of the cool billboard of the lady smoking when the game went to console.  You know, the one by the train station in Svetlo.  And they got rid of cannibas because of Australia. 

Overall balancing absolutely had all platforms in mind.  It's difficult to pinpoint specific examples, but absurd to think that decisions weren't made holistically.  Everything is viewed through the lens which sees money.  Sure, BI wants to promote the image that they do what they want, but that's garbage.  Consoles are the money makers, everyone knows it.  When consoles became confirmed, the development process was definitely affected by that, which makes total sense.  Good or bad, the port to consoles definitely affected the game.    

30 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

And if you are going onto such a big rant just because hit indicators, you gotta be kidding me if you blame that on console market...

 Doesn't look like a rant.  Looks like a discussion on a public forum.

7 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Console players never asked for it, neither did PC players.

No, they didn't ask for it directly.  They asked for it indirectly because games on console with hit indicators are more desirable.  Producers simply have to look at the reactions of players of other games.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

7 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

If you don't believe that dangling console money in front of BI did not seriously impact both development AND the nature of the game, then you are willfully choosing to be in denial of reality.  You make fair points but you never fully accept the large picture.  If DayZ had stayed a PC Only game as originally intended, then we would have a better product and it be in a better state, probably wouldn't be perfect but I seriously believe it would be better if consoles were taken out of the picture.

I think the only one in denial is you. Dayz is in the best state it's ever been in. You just can't accept that without console income the game would have died a slow quiet death long ago. You're welcome. 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

3 minutes ago, DayzDayzFanboy said:

I think the only one in denial is you. Dayz is in the best state it's ever been in. You just can't accept that without console income the game would have died a slow quiet death long ago. You're welcome. 

The game was moving ina  specific direction that people were following and overall approved, it wasn't until the major changes for console that came about including the player controller that things went seriously due south.  We haven't got SHIT because of console money.  Maybe you are on the BI payroll or something, I could care less.  Deny and deflect all you want.  It is forever imprinted on the internet for all to see.  BI took the money and the game suffered worse than it would have otherwise.   And with all that console money, you would think BI would fix a known exploit in their own DayZ executable that allows ANYONE to spoof a connected player to the DayZ executable and destroy the server.  They've had reports of this all the way back to 2018.  You would think they would take the time to fix this exploit that cripples servers because it is really rudimentary to run the script via a command prompt and force yourself onto any server and send RPC calls by the thousands per second and tank a server.  You would THINK they would use that console money to secure their own game... yet, here we are in 2022 and no patch and community and vanilla servers are getting wrecked because scripters are filling the database with junk to kill them.

Slow, quiet death is what is happening now.  Whole Dayz communities have been wiped out because of this ONE exploit that BI has thus far refused to fix.  All that console money didn't save Modern or The Wall or several other communities.  Now SunnyVale is in that samwe positition.  Regardless if you care for the communities or not, it says a lot about how all that console money has helped the game live on, when it's the communities that support it and promote it that are the heart of keeping the game going.

It's my understanding their might be an incoming security patch to fix this finally in a few weeks, but the proof will be in the pudding.

 

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

After much anticipation, I started playing DayZ the week it came out for ps4.

From my perspective, the first couple years of development after console release were productive. The last year and a half has shown a clear deviation from the original vision. 

The systems were intuitive, but lacking complexity. Of course, this was from the engine swap, and no one will argue that it was better before. For example, the inventory. But since only recently has the lack of handholding intended by an old school feel become undesirable for selling units.

The development team is small, and many original members are gone.  One could argue the soul of the project is fading.  I would be surprised if management is not driving most of the changes, which, it seems, are geared toward accessibility, and unfortunately game system simplification is the ugly byproduct.  Shock changes (1.14), ballistics changes (1.14), accelerated metabolism (1.15), and hit markers (1.15) are poor development choices from my point of view as a hardcore gamer/simulation enthusiast.

A large amount of content has been reintroduced, but little of it has benefited the diversity of player choice, which after all, is the primary function of a sandbox.

Most of the additions have been proper and in good taste. (Rubber slugs, garden plots, trip wire traps, fishing, plate carriers on infected, and broken legs just to name of few.)

I hope the game model does not compromise the original idea further than already has been: Freedom of choice and consequences steeped in rationale.

My wishes for the future development of DayZ = spray paint, bow, bicycle, helicopter, diverse clothing options, and improved item usage and wear system such as bullet condition. Many problems can be fixed by the CE: no more crates, massive decrease in ammo and grenades on the server means base walls get a buff (like one of each grenade with lifetime 24 hrs and restock 8 hrs), less food and animals, no infected inventory items, less tools with better durability, less backpacks, finite number of dry bags, decreased amount of highest insulating clothes. Fix the cars please. Expand the base building tremendously.

CONCLUSION

In my experience, this has been true each time I play DayZ: the less gear you have, the more likely you are going to cooperate.

The focus of future development should be on hardcore survival aspects and applying intuitive thinking. DayZ expertly simulates a Shit Hits The Fan scenario and it has been made evident through the changes in development that most of us humans would not survive like we thought we would, which hurts our feelings.

[rackinglad27 138]

55 minutes ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

After much anticipation, I started playing DayZ the week it came out for ps4.

From my perspective, the first couple years of development after console release were productive. The last year and a half has shown a clear deviation from the original vision. 

The systems were intuitive, but lacking complexity. Of course, this was from the engine swap, and no one will argue that it was better before. For example, the inventory. But since only recently has the lack of handholding intended by an old school feel become undesirable for selling units.

The development team is small, and many original members are gone.  One could argue the soul of the project is fading.  I would be surprised if management is not driving most of the changes, which, it seems, are geared toward accessibility, and unfortunately game system simplification is the ugly byproduct.  Shock changes (1.14), ballistics changes (1.14), accelerated metabolism (1.15), and hit markers (1.15) are poor development choices from my point of view as a hardcore gamer/simulation enthusiast.

A large amount of content has been reintroduced, but little of it has benefited the diversity of player choice, which after all, is the primary function of a sandbox.

Most of the additions have been proper and in good taste. (Rubber slugs, garden plots, trip wire traps, fishing, plate carriers on infected, and broken legs just to name of few.)

I hope the game model does not compromise the original idea further than already has been: Freedom of choice and consequences steeped in rationale.

My wishes for the future development of DayZ = spray paint, bow, bicycle, helicopter, diverse clothing options, and improved item usage and wear system such as bullet condition. Many problems can be fixed by the CE: no more crates, massive decrease in ammo and grenades on the server means base walls get a buff (like one of each grenade with lifetime 24 hrs and restock 8 hrs), less food and animals, no infected inventory items, less tools with better durability, less backpacks, finite number of dry bags, decreased amount of highest insulating clothes. Fix the cars please. Expand the base building tremendously.

CONCLUSION

In my experience, this has been true each time I play DayZ: the less gear you have, the more likely you are going to cooperate.

The focus of future development should be on hardcore survival aspects and applying intuitive thinking. DayZ expertly simulates a Shit Hits The Fan scenario and it has been made evident through the changes in development that most of us humans would not survive like we thought we would, which hurts our feelings.

hahaha I'm gonna show BI I'm gonna KOS from here and every day onward until I get a roadmap 👀👿👿👿 do you still play console day z EZY?

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

10 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Slow, quiet death is what is happening now. 

Dayz has more people playing now than its ever had, where have you been sleeping? 

As for the hacking and other crap you're talking about, guess what? PC only. Always has been and always will be. Nothing to do with console, wtf are you even talking about. 

The game is in the best state its ever been in. And this isn't just my opinion, this is most of the major pc streamers saying this. You need to remove those heavily rose tinted nostalgia goggles. Any problems with the game have been there long before console development. What, you think cars suddenly stopped working when console released? Pfft, smh

Edited January 20, 2022 by DayzDayzFanboy

[General Zod 1114]

11 hours ago, Parazight said:

 

No, they didn't ask for it directly.  They asked for it indirectly because games on console with hit indicators are more desirable.  Producers simply have to look at the reactions of players of other games.

Source on that ? Because from looking at the console section it seems that they are as unhappy with hit markers as the pc players. Unless of course the source is "trust me bro, console players want it easy". 

[DefectiveWater 491]

12 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

it wasn't until the major changes for console that came about including the player controller that things went seriously due south

I'm begging you, please tell me which are major changes other than the new player controller and hit indicators that made the game so much worse that are clearly console fault?

Zeds have been made harder last year.
Energy/hydration has been made harder last year (albeit in kind of lazy way by increasing the loss rate, but it is harder)
Immune system has been made harder last year.
Guns deal a ton more damage than they used to (for example, SKS went from 55 > 105 damage).
They introduced gas zones.
They brought back broken bones which is 2 years ago.
They added wound infections last year(not sure when exactly).

All of those things make the game harder, and you keep going on about dumbing the game down to consoles...
The only legit thing I heard so far that could be blamed on consoles is this:

13 hours ago, Parazight said:

They got rid of the cool billboard of the lady smoking when the game went to console.

Absolutely unplayable, consoel bad /s

Edited January 20, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[Parazight 1594]

Button Bloat is a real thing. MMOs, including this one, are designed with this issue in mind. Console platforms exacerbate the problems. 
 

it’s also apparent that BI did whatever they wanted to, back during arma 3 development. Now, it really ‘feels’ like consoles have mitigated that temperament, but that’s just my opinion.  There are other players who feel the same way. Now, we have Microsoft and Sony to help define the rules. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Parazight

[William Sternritter 441]

21 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

It's not a conspiracy theory.  The character controller was designed to make the game work on consoles.  I believe a former dev said as much, but I cannot find the source. 

Arma like controls and bindings are a shit show, thank God for Jim Sterling and this decision. It was coming, controller support or not. Not to mention that thanks to that, driving is now at least somewhat nuanced and you can actually steer instead of going full left or right each time. Control re-wamp is the best thing that happened to DayZ since early access. 

[General Zod 1114]

1 hour ago, Parazight said:

Button Bloat is a real thing. MMOs, including this one, are designed with this issue in mind. Console platforms exacerbate the problems. 
 

it’s also apparent that BI did whatever they wanted to, back during arma 3 development. Now, it really ‘feels’ like consoles have mitigated that temperament, but that’s just my opinion.  There are other players who feel the same way. Now, we have Microsoft and Sony to help define the rules. 

PS4 controller has 14 buttons that can be used for actions : the arrows, the shapes, the R's and the L's plus a touch pad. So including things like long / short press, double press and pressing two at the same time surely is more than enough to create a functional control system. 

It might lack the number of buttons to give you as many shortcuts as PC or the separate keys for gesture which very few people use and if they do it's 99% just the hands up in the ultra rare scenario when you don't get shot straight away. Other than that what do you use ? C to crouch / lay down, F to interact, R to reload and G to throw and Q and E for peaking. 6 (out of over 100) of your keyboard buttons account easily for 70%+ of what you use regularly but yeah sure 14 isn't enough. Walking and sneaking is miles better using sticks than it is using keyboard. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by General Zod

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

Must be nice living in fantasy land oblivious to the problems in front of your eyes.  I guess your poop don't stink, Joe Biden is the greatest president that ever lived as well, cars in DayZ work perfectly all the time, and it's impossible for a scripter to take down a console server as the DayZ server executable THAT ALL SERVERS USE (CONSOLE OR NOT) is infalliable.