Individual Hand Slots

[FlimFlamm 509]

Being able to hold one-handed objects in either hand allows the second hand to hold other things, perform other actions, or even be damaged/unusable. Under such a mechanic, two handed objects like picks and rifles could be held in one hand, but in order to be "wielded"  would require the use of both hand slots.

I realize this is a massive ask from a programming and animation perspective, but the long term benefits to such a system are endless. Right now the way we interact with everything is cumbersome and telepathic. We need to put our gun onto our backs in order to eat an apple, and when we are carrying large objects with both hands, doors and world objects telepathically obey our commands without the need to actually interact with them.

If we had a dual hand slot system, players could eat apples while aiming and firing a pistol. In order to interact with world objects they would need to free up one of both hands depending on the nature of the action (example: temporarily "un-wield" your M4 to a one hand carry in order to free the other hand to open a door). Crafting and item combination could primarily entail holding both parts at the same time in order to combine them. Holding two objects which both have some combined utility, like a torch and a one-handed meele weapon, would be easily achievable. Performing certain actions like applying a saline bag to a friend could require holding the saline bag in one hand and the needle end with the other in order to actually apply it.

In some ways interacting with objects and the world is made more complex, but general object use and management would become much more pleasurable because you could hold important items (like weapons and lights) in one hand while freely using and manipulating items and world objects with the other hand. Right now taking items in and out of the single hand slot makes you vulnerable and the constant switching back and forth can feel annoying at times, which would be handily remedied if we had a second hand slot to work with.

This kind of dual slot mechanic would require the ability to switch between the "active hand slot" so that when a player left clicks the game knows which hand slot to carry out the attack on (note: certain combinations like two pistols or two brass knuckles, or two empty fists could cause an automatic switch between active hand slots when an attack is triggered, so that they can be effectively dual wielded). This also opens the door to arm-specific injuries. If one arm is broken then players would only be able to carry out one-handed actions and use one-handed objects, and possibly be unable to carry objects like barrels which require two hands. If both arms are broken then the player would be unable to do anything at all except transfer items in and out of their inventory and a basic set of world interactions like opening doors. (This might seem cruel, but it's not. If you get your arms shot up in a firefight, then you will pose basically zero threat to your enemy, which means they might not actually execute you on the spot in order to feel safe. You can go convalesce behind a tree somewhere or beg a fellow survivor for some medical attention).

The "raised hands" mechanic might need to be modified to apply to individual arms separately, and the main programming hurtle would be re-doing and mirroring a crap ton of one-handed animations, including things like pistol aiming. Switching between hand slots when not simply wielding double handed objects would become a constant and integral part of playing the game.

Interacting with the world with two pliable hands is overall much more realistic than the modified gun-rack that is our current "hand slot". Even for a military simulator (which is the bread and butter of ARMA) having two individually simulated arms and hand slots opens the door much more realistic and dynamic in-game possibilities, like individual arm-injury simulation and generally more pleasurable and realistic interaction with objects going in and out of hand slots (as opposed to eating an apple forcing you to put your gun completely away).

Again, I do realize that this might be a massive ask from a development perspective, but I think the difference it would make in the long run is beyond measurement.

Thoughts?

Edited March 21, 2017 by FlimFlamm

[yazar8 584]

Like Skyrim, basically. It would be great.

[Coheed_IV 381]

I asked about this over a year ago. Victor even gave a response. Ive seen no indication that they have implemented it in the new player character, but it might be something they want in the long term.  The analog use of items is (like Minecraft eating) I think is still in development, which would work perfectly for two handed crafting. 

I think it's obvious how important this feature would be for the IP.  It also makes perfect sense for a console version and controller.  They seem to know how important using your hands slot is, as a connection to the world, doing this would multiply the immersion mant times. 

[DemonGroover 8836]

Torch and pistol would be great...they do it in the movies so it must be realistic.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

The game files do currently reference a right and left hand. Not sure if that's definitive or not, but there it is.

[FlimFlamm 509]

12 minutes ago, ColdAtrophy said:

The game files do currently reference a right and left hand. Not sure if that's definitive or not, but there it is.

I imagine they do have left and right hand hit-boxes, but it's not like getting shot in either arm makes a difference because splinting will heal both arms simultaneously, and there's no actual debilitation effect that results (besides shaking while aiming?).

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One of the more nuanced mechanics that individual hand slots would enable is to have individually broken/ non-usable arms.

In a firefight, let's say I shoot the arm you're using to hold a pistol (with something stronger than a makarov)... Your pistol should (have a good chance to) fall out of your hand and onto the ground, and that arm should become temporarily/somewhat unusable. You can try to pick up the gun with your other arm, but by that time I would like to have shot you in your other arm, and maybe a leg, rendering you a completely null threat.

This mechanic would lead to people staying alive instead of being executed in many many firefights simply because once you break someone's arm/arms and their ability to shoot back is either hampered or nullified, the victorious player will therefore not feel as much of a need to kill in order to remain safe. They can then opt to communicate or to apply restraints.

This kind of mechanic would only be doable if we have two arms/handslots to work with because arm injuries with only one hand slot would debilitate players too easily and completely.

Simulating individual arm damage (and legs too) I think is a necessary part of a health and damage system that doesn't feel like the classic HP-meter shoot-until-dead system that almost every other game with guns is based on. Simulating individual limb health in this way would be a bit of work, but if DayZ wants to simulate survival and world interaction more realistically, this would go a long way toward achieving that.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

That's all fine with me but as a lefty I want to choose a left handed stance for my character for everything.

Shouldn't this just be a mirror image thing?

[FlimFlamm 509]

2 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

That's all fine with me but as a lefty I want to choose a left handed stance for my character for everything.

Shouldn't this just be a mirror image thing?

I would say that players could be ambidextrous.

For example, if I drag and drop an M4 onto my right hand slot then my right hand would hold it by the main trigger grip. Then if I "wield" it with both hands in order to use it, my left hand would grab the front of the gunstock. This would result in a right handed stance (butt stock against right shoulder). If instead the trigger grip is held by the left hand, then everything would be a mirror image.

You would simply need to use your left hand as the main or primary gripping hand for objects

[Asmondian 372]

Love the idea, hope the new animation system could be a step foward to make this kind of eatures posible someday.

Im imagine a flashlight and a gun, one of each hand, and when you aim both hands in a position like this:

Beans!.

[FlimFlamm 509]

A lot of people seem to really like the light + weapon combo (I mean, who wouldn't?) but think of all the other knock on effects that two hand slots would have...

Accessing containers like med-kits and drybags would no longer be a pain in the ass because you could hold the container in one hand while removing and using items with the other, instead of having to flay objects across the open ground like some disorganized cretin.

Pistol + free hand might actually be the best combo though, because you can go around performing all kinds of world actions (the one-handed actions) while also being ready to defend yourself.

When more complex world interactions get added in, like body dragging/leading restrained players, two individual hand slots naturally simulates trade-offs: Dragging with one arm would be slow, but you could possibly stop dragging and aim a pistol in a moments notice (or even aim and shoot while dragging); using both hands to drag a body makes you vulnerable because your weapon is away but you could drag bodies much faster. Leading restrained players around by grabbing their cuffed hands from behind is a perfect mechanic which would be greatly enhanced by an ability to carry a weapon at the same time. "Grabbing" a cuffed player with one hand and holding a pistol in the other (or a knife) could enable hostage taking (and prisoner manipulation) by allowing you use them as a human shield and shoot over their shoulder, to hold a weapon to their back/head while moving them around as a threat/precaution in some situations, and allowing you to cinematically execute people via throat cut/gun shot.

And of course, individual arm injuries could interfere with all of these mechanics, where having one arm working arm means you can only do a slow one arm pull, or lead someone around but with no weapon, are forced to use the ground for container management like a cretin, not be able to wield two handed objects, etc...

Edited March 24, 2017 by FlimFlamm

[FlimFlamm 509]

Regarding pistols:

The way you currently shoot pistols is with a double handed grip. If single handed pistol shooting was available then the amount of gun-sway and recoil could be increased in order to make it more difficult to fire accurately and consistently with only one arm. "Wielding" a pistol with both hands would result in the current two-handed and more accurate stance.

Regarding rifles:

With only one hand available, it could be made possible to hold and shoot a two handed gun (hip-shooting style?) but with much greater gunsway, an inability to look down weapon-sights (unless prone?), and massive recoil.

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It certainly would be a lot of work in order to implement such a system, but if it could be made a part of the default player control in the Enfusion engine then every future mod and game will benefit from it. In order to stay appealing and competitive in a world of improving game-quality, simulation engines need to push traditional boundaries, and I think this is one worth pushing.
 

[Sqeezorz 839]

The double handslot option. It would be enough if you have an (arbitrary) light source in the left hand automatically. And now has the possibility to use all "a hand item" in the right hand. I expressly speak of this because of the experience of the new night. Clearly there is the headlight, but the use alone with this makes the real night (without gamma) very limited. Furthermore, the Char should hold a light source so in the hand that he does not blind himself. In 3pp not well possible, but in 1pp no problem a torch or chemlight so that it does not seem directly into the eyes seems (keep higher (active with space), or laterally deeper (inactive attitude)). And when we are already at the light .... what about the:

Gasoline Lantern...  ♡♡♡

[MrAerospace 87]

Love the hurricane lantern idea. Very useful item when the electricity is out.

If you ever used them though, you'd know that gasoline is quite a poor choice of fuel.