The Mosin and realism

[jedslather 4]

So now the Mosin can fire 50 - 100 rounds before it get ruined? Let me just calmly note that these rifles can fire thousands of rounds before they even get slightly defect. 

I think the Devs need to look into this as something that need some attention.

Anyway, love the new Zed AI, much better now as you actually can sneak around without being Xrayed by a zombie 100 feet away behind a house.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Hmm?  No one's done it yet?  Okay.

ALPHA.

They're not going to even think about getting values right for things 'right' till at least beta.

[HaseDesTodes 315]

apart from the "game is not done/balanced" point:

many things in dayz are speed up so those mechanics don't get useless. what would be the point in weapon maintenence (cleaning kit) if you dont have to use it.

[Kohlbar 268]

It's funny how very reliable weapons IRL (Mosin, .22 sporter) are so quickly damaged. I don't have a strong opinion on this because ALPHA but still, just kinda funny. However, when you think of the fact weapon cleaning kits are what's used to increase gun condition in the game, it makes sense guns degrade quickly because they must be cleaned regularly to keep operating correctly.

[jedslather 4]

12 hours ago, HaseDesTodes said:

apart from the "game is not done/balanced" point:

many things in dayz are speed up so those mechanics don't get useless. what would be the point in weapon maintenence (cleaning kit) if you dont have to use it.

As I said, "calmly" it's not a rage post, I just noted that when the devs seek realism, like when you got to load your weapon, it lacks in the wear and tear department.

Anyway, I've been off Dayz for some time and there are a lot of mechanics that are now for the better, I just wonder what changed regarding loading the Mosin? before you could drag the ammo to the rifle and then it loaded the 5 rounds, now I can only chamber one round? need something like a clip to load the rifle?

[HaseDesTodes 315]

19 minutes ago, jedslather said:

As I said, "calmly" it's not a rage post, I just noted that when the devs seek realism, like when you got to load your weapon, it lacks in the wear and tear department.

Anyway, I've been off Dayz for some time and there are a lot of mechanics that are now for the better, I just wonder what changed regarding loading the Mosin? before you could drag the ammo to the rifle and then it loaded the 5 rounds, now I can only chamber one round? need something like a clip to load the rifle?

loading will improve with new animations (propably in 0.62).

at the current state "chambering" is loading the internal magazine, so if you chamber the mosin you load in  5 rounds.

with new anymations they will be able to have many differnt animations like loading a single round, and loop them, so you can load single rounds until you want to stop, run out of rounds or the rifle is full. currently the only loading animation is loading in 5rnd from the clip. and it shows regardless of how much ammo is loaded.

[jedslather 4]

Just now, HaseDesTodes said:

loading will improve with new animations (propably in 0.62).

at the current state "chambering" is loading the internal magazine, so if you chamber the mosin you load in  5 rounds.

with new anymations they will be able to have many differnt animations like loading a single round, and loop them, so you can load single rounds until you want to stop, run out of rounds or the rifle is full. currently the only loading animation is loading in 5rnd from the clip. and it shows regardless of how much ammo is loaded.

Hmm, I swear that it only chamber one round, because if I press R+5 only one round eject?

[HaseDesTodes 315]

11 minutes ago, jedslather said:

Hmm, I swear that it only chamber one round, because if I press R+5 only one round eject?

i couldn't find a recording of me having a mosin right now, but i found me having a winchester, and with it, it works just as i described. (both are bolt-action with internal magazine, so it should be the same)

i can't tell why you would only get back one round if you loaded 5rounds before, but you should make sure that you have enough inventory space left, because single ejceted rounds use one slot each (they dont stack automatically). if you ejcet more rounds than you have space they will drop to the ground.

[jedslather 4]

Just now, HaseDesTodes said:

i couldn't find a recording of me having a mosin right now, but i found me having a winchester, and with it, it works just as i described. (both are bolt-action with internal magazine, so it should be the same)

i can't tell why you would only get back one round if you loaded 5rounds before, but you should make sure that you have enough inventory space left, because single ejceted rounds use one slot each (they dont stack automatically). if you ejcet more rounds than you have space they will drop to the ground.

Yeah I noticed that, but maybe its me doing something wrong, been a while since I've played DayZ, but thanks for trying to help out.

[oldfossil 57]

Have you used only "pristine" status bullets?

I suppose that not "brand new" ammo speeds up the gun deterioration.

[funyun 15]

On 12/28/2016 at 5:45 PM, HaseDesTodes said:

apart from the "game is not done/balanced" point:

many things in dayz are speed up so those mechanics don't get useless. what would be the point in weapon maintenence (cleaning kit) if you dont have to use it.

 

Its a useless mechanic in the first place, guns don't just fall apart on you like they do in this game.

 

 

 

 

[HaseDesTodes 315]

2 hours ago, funyun said:

Its a useless mechanic in the first place, guns don't just fall apart on you like they do in this game.

let's also remove the need to drink and eat, having to eat 1kg food every hours is realy unrealistc and makes the game only harder. so remove it.

DayZ is a survival game, that includes many mechanics that make the game harder and more complicated. if you don't like cleaning your weapon to keep it functional, you might be playing the wrong game.

[funyun 15]

5 hours ago, HaseDesTodes said:

let's also remove the need to drink and eat, having to eat 1kg food every hours is realy unrealistc and makes the game only harder. so remove it.

DayZ is a survival game, that includes many mechanics that make the game harder and more complicated. if you don't like cleaning your weapon to keep it functional, you might be playing the wrong game.

 

So DayZ would cease to be survival game without an abundance of weapon cleaning?

 

 

 

[HaseDesTodes 315]

36 minutes ago, funyun said:

 

So DayZ would cease to be survival game without an abundance of weapon cleaning?

 

 

 

no you just have to accept some features that make your life harder. if you don't like it this way, nobody is forcing you to play.

[jedslather 4]

On 12/30/2016 at 8:57 PM, HaseDesTodes said:

no you just have to accept some features that make your life harder. if you don't like it this way, nobody is forcing you to play.

That comment was a bit misplaced, the game is not hard, just more convoluted in some areas.

you can run full speed forever, but your rifle falls apart after 200 rounds fired, funny way to make a game "harder". However that being said, it's improving and I like where it's going.

 

[HaseDesTodes 315]

36 minutes ago, jedslather said:

you can run full speed forever, but your rifle falls apart after 200 rounds fired, funny way to make a game "harder".

stamina system is yet to come, so bringing this up is a bit weird.

and you can even fire 10000 rounds without ruining your rifle, you just have to use the cleaning kit regulary. adding this one simple step is that increase in dificulty i mean.

[funyun 15]

On 1/2/2017 at 8:42 AM, HaseDesTodes said:

stamina system is yet to come, so bringing this up is a bit weird.

and you can even fire 10000 rounds without ruining your rifle, you just have to use the cleaning kit regulary. adding this one simple step is that increase in dificulty i mean.

Weird?  You're the one that thought food needed to be part of this thread.

What is with people defending bugged out mechanics as features and decrying those that want them fixed as people who shouldn't play this game?

[Sqeezorz 839]

It is simply a matter of balance. The feature has just been reintroduced and may not yet react with all parameters. The Devs have simply taken a number and used the. Whether that is realistic or not remains undoubtedly. The fact is, it is not definitive. In the later course of the engine progress, surely other influences will play a role, perhaps the current number of rounds to be ruined .. the worst case. Say: much in the rain, only worn and damaged ammunition. Who knows whether the rolling on the ground with the weapon will also have an influence.

[HaseDesTodes 315]

1 hour ago, funyun said:

Weird?  You're the one that thought food needed to be part of this thread.

What is with people defending bugged out mechanics as features and decrying those that want them fixed as people who shouldn't play this game?

food was an example for the need of having an "unrealistic" feature in order to make the game a hardcore survival game. if you want a realistic weapon wear system, you might as well leave this out completly. i mean you eat like 3 meals in 24h so if you wanted this realistic you would only have to eat every 8h of playing. why bother having to eat, if it only occurs every 8h, that would be clearly a waste of programming time.

i'm no weapons expert, but i think that weapons are able to fire thousands of rounds without  wearing significantly. you will most likely have to clean them from time to time let's say 200 shots for the mosin) to keep them functional. i guess you won't need more than 40rounds for a firefight in the game (unless you are surpressing someone, but if you propably don't do that effectively with a bolt action rifle.)

i don't know about you, but i don't have firefights often. Let's imagine you have one every 1h. You would still need to play for 5h before this feature kicks in. So why bother having it in at all?

maybe you don't want those features realistic at all, but as long as you are refering to the real world, i just guess you want it "realistic".

 

And why would i "defend" "bugged out mechanics as features"?

basically because i think this is 95% working as intended and you just don't know how to cope with it. If you can't accept that the need to clean your weapon is totally intended you should change the game you are playing instead of demanding the game to change for you.

Maybe you will be lucky and find a softcore modded version of DayZ sometime in the future, but i think that the need to clean weapons fits with the rest of the game so i don't need this to be changed.

[-Gews- 7443]

Let's check the 'barrelArmor' for a few select weapons (0.59):

IZH18......................220
Mosin......................400
B95.........................550
CR527....................900
Model 70...............1800
 

Already you can see a problem because these are clearly nonsense values.

But it becomes worse when you compare these values to those of the semi and fully-automatic firearms, for example:
 

SKS......................2200
AUG......................2390
M4A1....................2400
AKM......................3000
AK74.....................3000


The self-loading weapons are far more durable than the single shots and bolt-actions! Doesn't make much sense, does it?

 

For a pristine M4A1 using pristine ammunition, you can expect to get around 200-400 rounds before the weapon becomes damaged.

But for a pristine Mosin using pristine ammunition, you may not reach even 15 rounds before the weapon becomes damaged. 

 

 

 

It seems like the devs made the single-shot weapons less durable because people don't shoot as many rounds through them. That means people will have to use their cleaning kits frequently no matter what weapon they have. Which is bullshit. A Mosin or Model 70, etc, should not have a lower durability value than an M4A1, etc, cleaning kits be damned.

 

   

Edited January 4, 2017 by -Gews-

[odin_lowe 3686]

On 04/01/2017 at 0:26 AM, -Gews- said:

-snip-

 

All these values should be similar, depending on the amount of rounds you can fire before generally dying. No matter how much "realism" or "authenticity" the devs are trying implement, or people want, it's a video game and we should have to use the weapon cleaning kit as it's a good mechanic rarely used in "shooters".

Of course, there's always the ridiculous factor of "realism" in a game that you can run forever carrying 300kg of stuff and a barrel in your hands...

Much of what we have access right now makes no sense at all, but most of it is place-holder anyway.

Alpha...