Arm the Infected!

[Parazight 1594]

So, I'll preface this suggestion by stating that I don't think the infected will ever be a real threat.  The only element in DayZ that will ever be truly dangerous is other players.  I'm not going to provide links, but if you've been following developer responses, you know that Hicks has said this.  Zombies are there to enhance the environment.

That said, infected could probably be upgraded a bit, difficulty wise.  I'd like to see zeds shooting at people.  This isn't to say that they'd have great aim or anything, or even realize (or care) that their firearm is loaded.  You've seen them one-handed leap over fences.  You've seen them track players.  They're superhuman, like a doped up Russian Olympian.  Based on what we've seen recently, they should be able to negotiate the mechanics of pulling a firearm trigger and aiming it at something.

Imagine watching streams where players have to actually consider zeds, instead of outright ignoring them when they're in melee range.  Or, maybe having to carefully navigate tent city and systematically taking out these diseased vermin before you can loot.  Let's say you aggro a zombie, start running, and once you get some distance, when it looks like you'll be able to out-run them, they stop, raise their Makarov, and pull the trigger.  The gun might just click because he's long out of ammo, but that doesn't matter.  If he can hurdle large fences with ease, he should be able to instinctively raise his arm and squeeze his hand.  How about that?  When you're looting and you hear gunshots, you have to wonder, is that a player or is it infected?

Infected shouldn't just die when they fall over.  There should be a chance that he just got knocked out.  Infected Dean Hall should jump back up, growl, and pursue you more. Maybe try and throw something at you.

Infected should be able to hide and camp inside buildings.  These are former clever humans here.  Let's give them some love.

When we do kill them and proceed to loot, we should sometimes find a grenade with the pin pulled waiting for us.  Booby-trap those guys.

Limiting zeds to melee attacks in a sandbox full of players and military grade weapons is rather silly.  We don't have to make them all overpowered, but at least the ones in zone 2 and up, the ones off the coast and around military installations.  If there's going to be loot on them, then at least make them non-trivial.  Thanks.

Thoughts?

[JBURNS489 165]

Honestly i dont think you could even call them zeds if they can shoot a weapon...i agree thqt they are not challenging and not even worth killing though. When they add in a stamina system so you cant just out run them, they will become more of a threat. Also, when zeds start dropping clothes and food they will be worth killing. The only thing zeds need in my opinion is better sounds (including footsteps!), the ability to open doors and have them start dropping loot. 

 

I think its a bad idea to give zeds weapons, but +1 for them being inside buildings and able to be knocked out

Edited July 25, 2016 by JBURNS489

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Hi!

They are currently working on a range of melee attacks for the infected and they will also be beating down doors in a variety of ways.

Infected will be working together when hive mechanics come into play as well.

Stamina for players is not in place (but is in place for infected), which makes them easy to outrun.

New hit boxes, new animations for players, ammo scarcity, advanced AI behaviors and sensors updates.... so much is still to come!

I am amazed by how few people can conceptualize what DayZ 1.0 will include.\

All of the information is out there.

Just about everything worth discussing that will be included in Vanilla DayZ 1.0 has been told to us.

Now take all that info, sit back, close your eyes, and dream of DayZ; because it's still a long long long way off.

 

[Parazight 1594]

4 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

I am amazed by how few people can conceptualize what DayZ 1.0 will include.\

All of the information is out there.

Just about everything worth discussing that will be included in Vanilla DayZ 1.0 has been told to us  

I believe that more people than you think are able to conceptualize the information that's given to us. It's not cryptic whatsoever.  I've read all of the information and understand it just fine.  My suggestion wasn't part of that plan, which is why I suggested it. 

What do you mean by "worth discussing"?  Are you trying to say that they're not taking suggestions anymore?  Who's in charge of deciding what's worth discussing?  Please elaborate.  

[Wili 156]

I hope zombies remain as they are, no shooting zombies, not even attacking with melee weapons.

I think zombies need to be tougher, maybe even grab you and make you fell to the ground, with hard to avoid attacks, etc but maybe not right now because the server performance is not good atm and infected are hitting you from the distance, through walls, floors, etc.

Also infected shouldn't track you that well, if they hear a shot they should start searching for players in the shooting direction but now infected knows your exact position even if they don't see you.

 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

7 hours ago, Parazight said:

-snip-

What do you mean by "worth discussing"?  Are you trying to say that they're not taking suggestions anymore?  Who's in charge of deciding what's worth discussing?  Please elaborate.  

I would be shocked if anything really big in the way of changes was still not revealed yet.

Arming the infected, if it were going to be in Vanilla DayZ 1.0, would have been confirmed by devs a long time ago.

So basically all that easily digested info you referenced is for the most part the stuff worth discussing, i.e. roadmap/status report content.

[Parazight 1594]

So, they're only considering suggestions that Biohaze considers to be small enough. Got it. Thanks. Lol. 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

1 hour ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

-snip-

So basically all that easily digested info YOU referenced is for the most part the stuff worth discussing, i.e. roadmap/status report content.

^How does this = this?

1 hour ago, Parazight said:

So, they're only considering suggestions that Biohaze considers to be small enough. Got it. Thanks. Lol. 

You lack objectivity.

Your idea is fun to discuss for a moment but would never make Vanilla 1.0 and if you follow and comprehend the direction and concepts that DayZ has presented for the infected you would know that this is never going to happen.

In fact, I will send you 100 USD if they put infected that fire guns in the vanilla game. -_-

You obviously don't understand the type of zombie DayZ has.

The virus has the effect of making the people more aggressive and animal like losing all semblance of human reasoning and changes their senses making their hearing keen but their eyesight poor.

Edited July 25, 2016 by ☣BioHaze☣

[BeefBacon 1185]

16 hours ago, Parazight said:

So, I'll preface this suggestion by stating that I don't think the infected will ever be a real threat.

I disagree.

You won't be able to outrun zombies as easily when the stamina system is in. You won't be able to hide as easily when they can bust through doors. You'll be overwhelmed when more of them are added in, and you won't be able to just shoot them all when ammo is rebalanced. I really doubt that you'll just be able to circle strafe to avoid their attacks too. That sounds like a threat to me.

I don't think zombies should be able to use guns. Basic tools maybe, but never guns. It would be nice if military zombies occasionally carried things like pistols, ammo, grenades and so on, but nothing that they can actually use.

Zombies hiding and camping in buildings would be cool, though. Would be neat if they did things other than wander aimlessly in the streets.

[BAHADIR 124]

If they dont add more infected to the game, it will always be an easy survival game.

[Parazight 1594]

3 hours ago, BeefBacon said:

That sounds like a threat to me.

check it out at about 32:30

Hicks answering questions. He states how zombies will never be a threat.  He's said this multiple times, here and on Reddit.  

Biohaze, I understand things just fine.  Just because I have a different opinion than you doesn't mean I lack objectivity or fail to understand what the devs have presented.  

You say 'easily digested' like some of the things I wrote were hard to comprehend.  It's not hard to understand what I wrote.  Forgive me if I interpreted this meaning incorrectly.  

As far as what the zeds *should* be, who knows.  Lore has always taken a backseat to gameplay and mechanics, across every MMO to date.  Hell, lore is pretty nonexistent in dayz anyway.  The lore on zombies is from some guy's brother, who isn't even working on the game anymore.  So basing game design on it is pretty laughable. 

Also, you can keep your money.  I don't need it. Haha. 

My main issue with your posts is not whether or not my idea is good or bad.  My suggestion may be terrible (nothing wrong with that!) but you say that suggestions are not even worth discussing. Why have an open forum then? Why be so close-minded??

[Troll_Hunter 54]

I like it.

I imagine the infected not starting of with heavy weapons, but only melee weapons and maybe a police pistol, or farmer shotguns. As ill civilians they are pretty incompetent using weapons, but still their numbers make up for it.

The sounds they emit should attract more infected from further away; hence gunshots will increase the alert range. So if the infected fires a gun; just like a player, it would alert and with a second shot attract nearby infected and possibly players.

I think it would be cool if the infected would pick up weapons and ammo from fallen players. This way the infected will 'upgrade' when upgraded players invade their safe space ;)

Infected army personnel should have military weapons from the start, making obtaining the military loot much more dangerous. A team effort. Maybe duos and/or single players will opt to go in military bases stealth style?

Love to hear the infected make more sounds of angry, aggressive, desperate mobs, not like 'zombies'.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

33 minutes ago, Parazight said:

check it out at about 32:30

Hicks answering questions. He states how zombies will never be a threat.  He's said this multiple times, here and on Reddit.  

Biohaze, I understand things just fine.  Just because I have a different opinion than you doesn't mean I lack objectivity or fail to understand what the devs have presented.  

You say 'easily digested' like some of the things I wrote were hard to comprehend.  It's not hard to understand what I wrote.  Forgive me if I interpreted this meaning incorrectly.  

As far as what the zeds *should* be, who knows.  Lore has always taken a backseat to gameplay and mechanics, across every MMO to date.  Hell, lore is pretty nonexistent in dayz anyway.  The lore on zombies is from some guy's brother, who isn't even working on the game anymore.  So basing game design on it is pretty laughable. 

Also, you can keep your money.  I don't need it. Haha. 

My main issue with your posts is not whether or not my idea is good or bad.  My suggestion may be terrible (nothing wrong with that!) but you say that suggestions are not even worth discussing. Why have an open forum then? Why be so close-minded??

Hicks says the infected will never be as much of a threat as the players, not the infected will never be a threat at all.

You are not comprehending what I have written and it's very frustrating. The "easily digested" part was about the road map and status report.

It's not about "lore" either, it's about the parameters of the infected based on how they were designed in the mod and beyond.

Some suggestions, if you understand DayZ are not worth discussing very much, sorry not sorry.

Infected firing guns is one of them.

Notice, everyone turned this into a different topic, one that has been beat to death....

Having to clarify every other point to someone who is half informed is laborious at best, if you think dissenting informed and intelligent opinions or thoughts have no place here then you don't belong on an open forum.

If you had any idea what this place has been like for the past 4 years, or followed my own posts for that long, maybe you could call me closed minded but considering none of that is true, you have no basis to say so do you? I mean you've maybe read a few hundred of my 3500 posts here, right?

Yup.

I think there is about 1,000 people who really understand where DayZ is headed and a bunch of those work at Bohemia.

[BeefBacon 1185]

1 hour ago, Parazight said:

Hicks answering questions. He states how zombies will never be a threat.  He's said this multiple times, here and on Reddit.  

He says THE real threat - not A real threat. What he's saying is that other players and the environment (hunger, cold, etc) are the primary threats. He expands on this by saying that AI is predictable, which means that players will always be able to turn that to their advantage. Players are not predictable, and so will always be a threat. I suppose he could have said "Ostensibly zombies are the main threat because this is a zombie game, but it's actually other players that you need to watch out for."

[Parazight 1594]

14 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Hicks says the infected will never be as much of a threat as the players, not the infected will never be a threat at all.

You are not comprehending what I have written and it's very frustrating. The "easily digested" part was about the road map and status report.

It's not about "lore" either, it's about the parameters of the infected based on how they were designed in the mod and beyond.

Some suggestions, if you understand DayZ are not worth discussing very much, sorry not sorry.

Infected firing guns is one of them.

Notice, everyone turned this into a different topic, one that has been beat to death....

Having to clarify every other point to someone who is half informed is laborious at best, if you think dissenting informed and intelligent opinions or thoughts have no place here then you don't belong on an open forum.

If you had any idea what this place has been like for the past 4 years, or followed my own posts for that long, maybe you could call me closed minded but considering none of that is true, you have no basis to say so do you? I mean you've maybe read a few hundred of my 3500 posts here, right?

Yup.

I think there is about 1,000 people who really understand where DayZ is headed and a bunch of those work at Bohemia.

For whatever reason, you assume I don't comprehend what you're saying.  I don't know how else to explain to you that, in fact, I *do* understand and comprehend what you've said.  Again, just because we have different opinions, doesn't mean I cannot understand it.  You continually try to insult me by saying that I lack objectivity, I don't read anything, my topics aren't even worth talking about, and I'm half-informed.  I'm not sure why I'm under attack here.  Maybe it's because you think nobody can conceptualize what DayZ will be except yourself and the devs. Yea, I haven't read ALL of your posts.  Mostly because you come off as very condescending to pretty much everybody.  I wish it wasn't like this.  You seem like a smart guy.

You assume that zeds have to be like they are in the mod.  Designing and tailoring infected based on how they were in the mod is outright foolish.  The standalone title needs to progress and evolve away from the mod.  That's the whole point of the standalone!  Any professional in this business understands this concept. BI understands this, and the bad design decision disclaimer when you launch reflects it.

This is the perfect example.  Eugen asks these type of large, broad questions all the time.  You know this because you follow development.  Look, the developers actually think that these sort of topics are worth discussing! 

Read the thread again.  Everyone hasn't turned this thread into a different topic.  It all relates to infected and the future of Dayz.   The thread is very much still on-topic.  The only person that has tried to steer it away from the original topic is you!  Bringing up "topics aren't worth discussing" hogwash.

I've brought up this topic in an effort to make infected interesting, at the very least.  The infected in the current, and future, state will never be challenging to anyone over 7 years old.   See, there has NEVER, in the entire history of sandbox mmos, been a non-tethered, non-instanced NPC that has ever posed a challenge. And there never will be!  It's because game developers are forced to balance NPCs versus the single player in a sandbox environment.  If they balance mobs to be stronger than one person can handle then the title fails.   Dynamic spawning zeds based on multiple player proximity falls into the same can, if only because of what Hicks said.  The key is that as soon as there's more than one person, mobs are pathetically easy.  That's the nature of free roaming mobs in a sandbox.  Combined with the fact that humans will always outsmart AI, as soon as you have a friend with you, then real people become hilariously overpowered.  And of course, that's the point of Massive-MULTIPLAYER-Online games.  More than one person.  I beg you to name a single, non-tethered, non-instanced mob, from any mmo that is actually challenging. 

So my suggestion is actually very necessary.  If you want zeds to be anything more than an annoying gnat, then you have to level the playing field somehow, hence, my suggestion to arm them.  Decreasing stamina, improving AI, and reducing ammo are all efforts to make them more than worthless, but it will never be enough.

How many times have any of you died to zombies in the mod?? ZERO, amirite?

Edited July 26, 2016 by Parazight

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

51 minutes ago, Parazight said:

How many times have any of you died to zombies in the mod?? ZERO, amirite?

First off, you thought I was talking about something you wrote when I was talking about the road map and status reports. That's the definition of being misunderstood.

Infected don't HAVE to be the way the were in the mod but will fall under the same parameters of abilities. None of which include armed infected ,especially with guns.

Also, it's not an insult to say you lack objectivity, if I wanted to insult you I would have said your idea was sophomoric and belongs in some complete other game or mod like, "nazi zombies vs chernarus", you know, for the kids!

I never expected you to have read ALL of my posts but you surely don't have a right to call me closed minded regarding DayZ dev, I just make suggestions based on what I know the direction of the game is, not something so far fetched as to completely change the essence of DayZ.

DayZ relies on some semblance of authenticity.

I can suspend my disbelief for angry animal people in a DayZ setting, I cannot suspend my disbelief to include gun toting infected.

Most of the people who bothered to post wrote something like, "No, but here's how I think infected could be more dangerous.".

Hardly a resounding chorus of people interested in giving infected guns.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You haven't played with stamina for characters.

You haven't played with the new animations system. (New injured animations, variety of infected attacks.)

You haven't played with infected destroying barricades/doors.

You haven't played with the dynamic spawn system in place.

You haven't played with high numbers of infected (as simulated by the dynamic system).

You haven't played with ammo scarcity and differing ammo quality AND high populations of infected.

You haven't played with horde AI in place (unless you played the experimental build that featured an early version).

What did I forget???

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And yes I died to infected in the mod, early on while learning the game and later when I went on infected killing spree's and bit off more than I could chew.

 

[BeefBacon 1185]

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

Decreasing stamina, improving AI, and reducing ammo are all efforts to make them more than worthless, but it will never be enough.

Adding a stamina system and decreasing ammo aren't just to make zombies more difficult to deal with - it's to increase the game's difficulty as a whole, independent of zombies - though they will certainly affect player-zombie interactions.

Again, zombies will never be the primary threat. I fail to see why arming them would change that in any meaningful way. A stamina system won't make them more difficult. Less ammo won't make them more difficult. Better AI won't make them more difficult. However, giving some of them the ability to inaccurately spray bullets in your general direction? Basically unstoppable.

I would wait to see how zombies measure up when they can knock down doors, players are affected by stamina, and there are more of them. Zombies as they currently are are basically just an annoyance. Arguably the main threat they currently pose is that they can draw attention to you, which other players can take advantage of. I don't know if those things will mean that zombies will pose an actual threat, but I suspect they will. If they're still harmless after that then I think yeah, maybe some of them could have guns - a bit like the zombies in STALKER. For now it's best to see how they pan out - it doesn't make sense to suggest a solution to a problem that hasn't even had the opportunity to arise yet. That doesn't mean this shouldn't be discussed, of course.

3 hours ago, Parazight said:

...

 

2 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

...

Mum, dad, please stop fighting.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

4 minutes ago, BeefBacon said:

-snip-

I would wait to see how zombies measure up when they can knock down doors, players are affected by stamina, and there are more of them. -snip-

 

Mum, dad, please stop fighting.

My point exactly (put more succinctly), and 100% agreed, I've said all I need to on this topic.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

Weight affecting player speed.

Another way of making infected more dangerous for geared players, is to make the gears weight affect the players stamina and speed. A heavily geared player would be much slower then a player without gear. The player without gear can outrun infected (barely), and the players with + 5kg (A rifle and a magazine) are as fast. Players with a rifle and backpack are slower then infected and unequipped players.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Troll_Hunter