change zombies into cannibalising gangs.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

Hi reader,

Watching DayZ graphics progression with the new more realistic looking renderer, controller, interface, it got me thinking about it's zombies.

In essence: zombies do not fit the game any more.

In the beginning Dayz looked more like a drawing, now with the improved (and still improving) graphics, the game's appearance is shifting towards realism. Zombies are a fantasy, and have some unreal characteristics that distract and break the realistic feel of the Dayz world. They are becoming a dissonance in relation to Dayz's realism.

Turn the zombies into: ill, short sighted, low stamina, a moral cannibals, that work in gangs.

The story could be an viral illness has spread in the cities, only a few gangs survive, eating their neighbours, or any stranger. Because of the crisis situation and their illness they have a heightened aggression and sprint speed, but limited view distance and stamina. They also cling on their neighbourhood, accept for when there is no more bodies to eat, then they'll go hungry and start to roam along the road to the next town in search of the next fresh body. They use blunt and stabbing weapons, and some gang leaders even guns, but their illness and lack of training makes their automatic fire inaccurate. They do set up ambushes and traps. They talk and order each other and when on a hunt they shout maniacally battle cries and taunts, and are loud in their movements. I also like to see cannibal infighting when they believe they hit each other. They can beg for mercy, flee, take and use cover, sneak around and prefer to attack when the player is facing the other way. They should be a serious thread, and cities should have big gang/s of 20 - 40 members that patrol and guard their neighbourhood (and hidden loot pile/s), making it necessary for players to be very stealthy, smart, and or bring a team and enough guns to gain access.

I know this is a lot of work to do, certainly with this much detail. But I think that the today's zombies are starting to feel more and more out of place in the realistic setting Dayz is creating.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Well that's no more realistic than zombies... though technically they're 'infected' rather than zombies. They're not the living dead. Think 28 Days Later with the rage/rabies virus.

It would be nice to see zombies actually eating dead players, though. Maybe even dead zombies and animals. A small chance for them to be carrying a small tool or weapon of some sort could also be neat, but hardly necessary. Having them carrying guns, however, I'm against - that is with the exception of military zombies, where it'd be nice if you could occasionally loot a damaged pistol, ammo or other small military item from their bodies.

[c4p 30]

yes, as @BeefBacon said, zombies are infected people not dead ones. I compare them to the ones from The Crazies. I'd like to see them using melee weapons and maybe rarly guns.

It is planned that the infected will spawn in packs, but we don't know how many or how often they will spawn. However, the most important thing for me is that the infected will be smart, sneak at you, search for you and hunt you with tactics... :-)

[Zimorak 50]

No

[Whyherro123 2283]

1) The "zombies" in Day Z are not "classical, Night of the Living Dead Romero-style zombies", as stated. They are "normal" people, infected with a disease that causes severe brain damage.

2) I am rather against the infected being "active cannibals", "active" meaning they hunt down players in order to kill and eat them. There are only 50 players per 225 square kilometers of game world, and humans are rather shitty prey (mostly muscle, not a lot of fat, highly capable of fighting back, etc) in "real life" anyways. Most instances of "maneaters" in real life are older animals that lack the ability to hunt other "more worthwhile" prey, not young, strong individuals. There would be plenty of other, more-easily-caught animals for the infected to eat.

I am ok with the infected being "passive cannibals", "passive" in the sense that, if they were to stumble across a dead human body, they would partake if they were hungry. Many animals, even herbivores, will do that in real life.

3) I have always wanted the infected to be "smarter", for lack of a better term. The disease makes them "animalistic", not "stupid", and there is a difference. If they are smart enough to be able to open doors, they are smart enough to be able to use "tactics" and even simple tools.

Right now, the infected are literally stumblefuck stupid, charging at a player as soon as they see them, with no regards to possible danger. Remember: the infected are still living humans. If they have survived "this long", why are they so stupid?

I would much prefer it if, when an infected saw a player, it would 1) consider the ramification of an attack (aka threat level, possibility of injury, surroundings, etc) 2) decide to attack or not based on those ramifications, and then 3) stalk and ambush the player when the terrain and circumstances are right. (when the player is inside a building, busy with a task, getting attacked by something else, etc)

Remember: in "real life", most predators do not attack other animals for "shits and giggles" (and those that do tend to be the ones we are most frightened of), as they are capable of weighing "risk vs reward" ( if I attack that animal and kill it, I get food, but I could get injured in the attempt.....nah, not that hungry). I would highly prefer it if the infected acted more like real-world predators and less like .... well, braindead zombies. Stalking players, ambushing players, even fleeing from players, instead of "mindlessly charging into gunfire".

Animalistic, not stupid.

Alas, highly unlikely to actually happen.

[Zimorak 50]

This. Less Jumping (Although it would be cool), The stupid factor is still somewhat existent however.

 

[Tigermonk 140]

13 hours ago, c4p said:

yes, as @BeefBacon said, zombies are infected people not dead ones. I compare them to the ones from The Crazies. I'd like to see them using melee weapons and maybe rarly guns.

It is planned that the infected will spawn in packs, but we don't know how many or how often they will spawn. However, the most important thing for me is that the infected will be smart, sneak at you, search for you and hunt you with tactics... :-)

that would take away all the ethics of 'zombies' zombies are not 'smart' or 'tactical' their more of a 'basic function' asset type of threat..
some basic motoric functions remain (running/sound/sight/hitting or clawing.)
the difficulty should be in their numbers.. not their 'brains and tactics' 

example:
trigger happy fully geared KoS badass walks into cherno or elektro,
spots a player moving stealthy through the back streets to avoid detection by players/infected alike shoots at the player 'for his gear or shits and giggles'
alerts every zombie within a 50 meter radius through sound output..
has to RUN for his life or gets beaten/clawed to death by 30-40 infected thinking he's the next meal on the menu

that's how every serie/movie works.. infected/walkers/undead mainly have poor/blurred vision but are drawn to sound (falling trees/breaking sticks/gunshots etc.)
since these are 'infected' and not (as people state in this topic) 'undead' they may have low stamina.. but moving on instinct/adrenaline alone should be able to catch you in the long run. since their body isn't functioning normally.
I remember this person called 'dean hall' that was planning on 'taking the speed out of the game' so players had to move slower, sneak more.. take cover to avoid detection from horded of zombies.. so they don't flash run to military bases.. gear up and go on bonny and Clyde style sprees.

dayz should be a dangerous place... filled with danger all around.. so you'll think twice before rushing into things with high value loot... play tactical.. 
a military base FULL of infected?

- rig a pipe bomb or flashbang... a few yards from the base.. so the infected hear the bang and see a flash,, all shovel towards it to check it out..
- belly crawl under the broken wall.. loot the base.. and get out of there as fast as you can..
still outnumbered? take a chance... find people.. talk your way into a cooperation with that group...
1 person rig's the explosive...
1 person is a back up for stragglers
2 or 3 people loot the base.. many hands make light work..

congratulations you're actually playing a realistic game without the KoS minded movie approach, you would never use should this be real

Edited March 29, 2016 by Tigermonk

[pilgrim* 3513]

5 hours ago, Tigermonk said:

..//..

A simple thing would be a placeholder for the weight/stamina system :
With a backpack you run slower than the zombies
Drop your backpack you run faster than the zombies

 

[thefriendlydutchman 159]

I would like to see zombies push the player on the ground, they charge at you and then jump on you, you can push them off by clicking left mouse button for awhile (or a friend can shoot him off you) but if you dont theyll eat you up.

I would like to see zombies break your arms waaaaay easier, I would like to see them zigzag at you so youre harder to hit

I would like to see them crouch and make less sound at night (because theyre eyes arent that good, look around with their head like a crazed chicken)

 

I would like zombies eat up dead bodies, slowly ruining the gear on the body 

 

I would like to see zombies break legs but only if they attack you in numbers.

 

I would like to see the ability to cut up a zombie and put blood on your clothes so they wont see you (alsong as you dont run or carry a gun)

with the risk of getting diseases (that are either hard to cure or not to cure)

 

I would like to see zombies eating dead zombie bodies, I would like to see flies around zombie and player dead bodies.

 

I would want zombie hordes to move from town to town

[Troll_Hunter 54]

Thank you all for the civil and constructive responses, a joy to read!

I hope the BI team likes it too. And I wish them to pick up the gauntlet and make their 'zombies' more appealing and fitting in the realistic and authentic setting Dayz has.

Since zombies in games are often an 'cheap' part, because people expect them to be dumb, I think it would be most refreshing to see more depth to them. This added depth would help a lot to set Dayz apart from the other zombie games.

Thank you,

 

Kars

[Rags! 1966]

On 3/28/2016 at 3:59 PM, Troll_Hunter said:

In essence: zombies do not fit the game any more.

Pretty bold statement seeing as the game hasn't been finished yet.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

2 hours ago, Rags! said:

Pretty bold statement seeing as the game hasn't been finished yet.

Yes, now this is a bit of an eye catching, thought provoking, bold statement. But later, with the 0.60 and subsequent graphics boosts towards realism, the dissonance will become (more) clear. This will increase the contrast between the cartoon like zombie appearance and behaviour and realistic looking renderer and setting. Zombies may start feeling like a weak part of the game, underdeveloped, not a positive contributor to the setting and gameplay.

I bring this subject to this suggestions forum section maybe (a bit) early, but I do this to give the BI Dayz team some time to consider and some time to make changes towards realism.

Total Biscuit explains about the dissonance of gameplay and realism in "The Division" :

 

[Tigermonk 140]

On 3-4-2016 at 6:01 PM, thefriendlydutchman said:

I would like to see zombies push the player on the ground, they charge at you and then jump on you, you can push them off by clicking left mouse button for awhile (or a friend can shoot him off you) but if you dont theyll eat you up.

I would like to see zombies break your arms waaaaay easier, I would like to see them zigzag at you so youre harder to hit

I would like to see them crouch and make less sound at night (because theyre eyes arent that good, look around with their head like a crazed chicken)

 

I would like zombies eat up dead bodies, slowly ruining the gear on the body 

 

I would like to see zombies break legs but only if they attack you in numbers.

 

I would like to see the ability to cut up a zombie and put blood on your clothes so they wont see you (alsong as you dont run or carry a gun)

with the risk of getting diseases (that are either hard to cure or not to cure)

 

I would like to see zombies eating dead zombie bodies, I would like to see flies around zombie and player dead bodies.

 

I would want zombie hordes to move from town to town

I would like to see zombies push the player on the ground, they charge at you and then jump on you, you can push them off by clicking left mouse button for awhile (or a friend can shoot him off you) but if you dont theyll eat you up.
(that sounds good enough as another option to 'slow down the game')

I would like to see zombies break your arms waaaaay easier, I would like to see them zigzag at you so youre harder to hit
(zigzag/cross leg is a military style walk.. to tactics... NOPE zombies are DUMB!/BASIC!/non-tactical (poor eye sight/low stamina so zigzag is more energy consuming thus impractical)

I would like to see them crouch and make less sound at night (because theyre eyes arent that good, look around with their head like a crazed chicken)
(partially agree)
'making less sound' also tactical since zombies only make sound on contact in current build. is also tactical.. the crouched part... would only be logic like it was in the mod.. they run crouched (since that's their starting position or final position after having something broken) crouched run should be slower. BUT harder to spot in grass fields/at night from long range
 

I would like zombies eat up dead bodies, slowly ruining the gear on the body 
this would be something that could work... so people killed by zombies don't become instant targets of body looters/gear horders

I would like to see zombies break legs but only if they attack you in numbers.
so why only in numbers.. that's the same thing as breaking an arm.. 1 zombie (military) is strong enough to do that prob. maybe the crouched zombies I said from the mod.. break ur legs (lower to the ground etc)
and the others break your arms/make you bleed more..

I would like to see the ability to cut up a zombie and put blood on your clothes so they wont see you (as long as you dont run or carry a gun)
to much inspired by TWD.. + what good would that do? you can spot a player from a zombie.. if you're not carrying a gun, you're an instant target for groups. so NOPE

with the risk of getting diseases (that are either hard to cure or not to cure)
'harder to cure' maybe... 'impossible to cure' LOL that would be the nail in the coffin for this game all together.. if you have 70+ zombies in a town.. how big is your chance or NOT being hit... very very very small.. even if that 'decease' only has a transfer rate of 0.2% that means.. every 500 hits.. a person gets sick (500x0.2=100%) with hordes of zombies... that would mean (in RP standards) a person dies every 2-3 weeks because his decease wasn't curable 

I would like to see zombies eating dead zombie bodies, I would like to see flies around zombie and player dead bodies.
ask the devs for these things.. but their a small 'visual enhancement' and probably on the bottom of their 'to-do' list.. as large as the bible itself so.. meh..doubtful

I would want zombie hordes to move from town to town
(good idea), that would keep players on their toes... not massive groups (like twd) of 300 zombies.. but just groups of 5 (total of 100, so 20 places on that map *large cities) that have small bands of zombies roaming around 

[thefriendlydutchman 159]

10 minutes ago, Tigermonk said:

I would like to see zombies push the player on the ground, they charge at you and then jump on you, you can push them off by clicking left mouse button for awhile (or a friend can shoot him off you) but if you dont theyll eat you up.
(that sounds good enough as another option to 'slow down the game')

I would like to see zombies break your arms waaaaay easier, I would like to see them zigzag at you so youre harder to hit
(zigzag/cross leg is a military style walk.. to tactics... NOPE zombies are DUMB!/BASIC!/non-tactical (poor eye sight/low stamina so zigzag is more energy consuming thus impractical)

I would like to see them crouch and make less sound at night (because theyre eyes arent that good, look around with their head like a crazed chicken)
(partially agree)
'making less sound' also tactical since zombies only make sound on contact in current build. is also tactical.. the crouched part... would only be logic like it was in the mod.. they run crouched (since that's their starting position or final position after having something broken) crouched run should be slower. BUT harder to spot in grass fields/at night from long range
 

I would like zombies eat up dead bodies, slowly ruining the gear on the body 
this would be something that could work... so people killed by zombies don't become instant targets of body looters/gear horders

I would like to see zombies break legs but only if they attack you in numbers.
so why only in numbers.. that's the same thing as breaking an arm.. 1 zombie (military) is strong enough to do that prob. maybe the crouched zombies I said from the mod.. break ur legs (lower to the ground etc)
and the others break your arms/make you bleed more..

I would like to see the ability to cut up a zombie and put blood on your clothes so they wont see you (as long as you dont run or carry a gun)
to much inspired by TWD.. + what good would that do? you can spot a player from a zombie.. if you're not carrying a gun, you're an instant target for groups. so NOPE

with the risk of getting diseases (that are either hard to cure or not to cure)
'harder to cure' maybe... 'impossible to cure' LOL that would be the nail in the coffin for this game all together.. if you have 70+ zombies in a town.. how big is your chance or NOT being hit... very very very small.. even if that 'decease' only has a transfer rate of 0.2% that means.. every 500 hits.. a person gets sick (500x0.2=100%) with hordes of zombies... that would mean (in RP standards) a person dies every 2-3 weeks because his decease wasn't curable 

I would like to see zombies eating dead zombie bodies, I would like to see flies around zombie and player dead bodies.
ask the devs for these things.. but their a small 'visual enhancement' and probably on the bottom of their 'to-do' list.. as large as the bible itself so.. meh..doubtful

I would want zombie hordes to move from town to town
(good idea), that would keep players on their toes... not massive groups (like twd) of 300 zombies.. but just groups of 5 (total of 100, so 20 places on that map *large cities) that have small bands of zombies roaming around 

did you even read the main topic, its about having zombies that arent dumbed down easy to kill monsters like in every survvial game, plus theyre not even zombies, theyre infected (sick humans) they got something similar to rabies, they are NOT undead, in other words their brain functions can work

 

Also zigzagging is a military tactic? lol no, in DayZ and arma yes but its more of an exploit than something that would work in real life

 

the blood is not something TWD thought of, it has been done before that.

 

the zombies should be smarter like in I am Legend, because zombies as they are now are far from a threat

 

plus as the OP of this topic said its refreshing to see smart zombies (infected) that can be unpredictable ingame

[Tigermonk 140]

3 minutes ago, thefriendlydutchman said:

did you even read the main topic, its about having zombies that arent dumbed down easy to kill monsters like in every survvial game, plus theyre not even zombies, theyre infected (sick humans) they got something similar to rabies, they are NOT undead, in other words their brain functions can work

 

Also zigzagging is a military tactic? lol no, in DayZ and arma yes but its more of an exploit than something that would work in real life

 

the blood is not something TWD thought of, it has been done before that.

 

the zombies should be smarter like in I am Legend, because zombies as they are now are far from a threat

 

plus as the OP of this topic said its refreshing to see smart zombies (infected) that can be unpredictable ingame

yes i've red the main topic ;) thank you :) 

zig zag.. might not be... but its tactical if you're hiding behind cover ;) advance in zig zag patern.. less predictable. ;)

might not be a walking dead premier (did I say that.. let me re-quote myself for ya) 'to much inspired by TWD.. + what good would that do?' <-- since TWD is the most recent series to do this stunt.. i've never SAID anything remotely like: 'TWD is the first series to do this..'

'the zombies COULD be smarter.. but their not.. these 'people' are sick.. being sick doesn't make you smarter.. rabies makes you 'crazed' NOT smarter! 

'plus as the OP if this topic said......' 
unpredictable game... hmmm  'I would want zombie hordes to move from town to town
(good idea), that would keep players on their toes... not massive groups (like twd) of 300 zombies.. but just groups of 5 (total of 100, so 20 places on that map *large cities) that have small bands of zombies roaming around '

^ you didn't see that one coming I suppose.. being a fresh spawn on the coast.. while 10 zombies roam 50 meters away from you.. or zombies in the woods.. and not just ONE straggler.. no dozens... like the wolves..  

[thefriendlydutchman 159]

On 5-4-2016 at 11:33 AM, Tigermonk said:

yes i've red the main topic ;) thank you :) 

zig zag.. might not be... but its tactical if you're hiding behind cover ;) advance in zig zag patern.. less predictable. ;)

might not be a walking dead premier (did I say that.. let me re-quote myself for ya) 'to much inspired by TWD.. + what good would that do?' <-- since TWD is the most recent series to do this stunt.. i've never SAID anything remotely like: 'TWD is the first series to do this..'

'the zombies COULD be smarter.. but their not.. these 'people' are sick.. being sick doesn't make you smarter.. rabies makes you 'crazed' NOT smarter! 

'plus as the OP if this topic said......' 
unpredictable game... hmmm  'I would want zombie hordes to move from town to town
(good idea), that would keep players on their toes... not massive groups (like twd) of 300 zombies.. but just groups of 5 (total of 100, so 20 places on that map *large cities) that have small bands of zombies roaming around '

^ you didn't see that one coming I suppose.. being a fresh spawn on the coast.. while 10 zombies roam 50 meters away from you.. or zombies in the woods.. and not just ONE straggler.. no dozens... like the wolves..  

I dont mean theyre smarter than humans though, but smarter than zombies in most games, so my apologies for being unclear about that.

Yes hordes should be a thing but I think multiple groups of 50-60 are good, creating a real problem for players

[Troll_Hunter 54]

On 6-4-2016 at 9:16 PM, thefriendlydutchman said:

I don't mean they're smarter than humans though, but smarter than zombies in most games, so my apologies for being unclear about that.

Yes hordes should be a thing but I think multiple groups of 50-60 are good, creating a real problem for players

Roaming groups, that patrol neighbourhoods and sometimes the connecting town roads would be an excellent reason to be terrified of going alone, and motivate people find a buddy and build a team.

The lone wolf type of player can try to go the stealth way, using bows, knifes, traps, camouflage, distractions, timing to enter and loot the villages.

I think it would be cool if cities would demand a higher level of group organisation to enter and loot. - With more unique and valuable rewards obviously.

On infected group size.

In general I favour smart realistic AI over having many unrealistically dumb AI.

I think the infected and disabled should be in a worse, more deteriorated physical and mental condition. Their leader should be the most able, maybe able to lead up to 10 underlings. For a city, I think the gang criminal types may have a two level organisation: Commander, lieutenant and underlings. Reflecting this higher level of organisation, patrols and group coordination, making entering and looting a city / factory a big serious challenge demanding high player skills, good tools, coordination, scouting and planning. - This reminds me of Hannibal: I love it when a plan comes together.