Question about barrels

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

36 minutes ago, tenmbits said:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/3wx9br/psasome_persistence_tests/

I did some persistence tests, and didn't get said results. Was my test wrong?

Nah - its just a 3 month old test. 

Rerun it now.

[tenmbits 2]

11 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Nah - its just a 3 month old test. 

Rerun it now.

I redid the test just then:

A     B     C     D     -     Place 4 clothes, Added beans to C and D. start timer 

A     B     C     D     -     Added bean to B. Took away bean from C. Moved bean on D. Logged out. 5 miutes.

At 32 minute mark, logged in. B, C, D should have 3 minutes of lifetime left. But everything have despawned.

Maybe poke QA people to have a go at it.

Edited March 23, 2016 by tenmbits

[pilgrim* 3514]

^ If the despawn timer was an absolute value and set for each item, it would have to be individually flagged and a timer decremented each tick for every single loot item. I don't think the sever does that.
So you can't say, "when I leave an item on the ground, it will despawn after exactly 16 mins and 42 seconds" (eg)

more likely :
- everything dropped is tagged (A) as it is dropped
- at regular intervals everything already (B) is moved to (R)
and  everything tagged (A) is moved to tag (B)
anything (R) can be despawned

this is several thousand times more efficient than updating individual timers every tick

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by pilgrim*

[tenmbits 2]

On 3/22/2016 at 1:06 AM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Nah - its just a 3 month old test. 

Rerun it now.

Hey Brian, I've just run another test on AU 2-15. It had around 5 people. Test went like this:

1. Two hats and one jacket were dropped. Then I logged out. Started stopwatch.
2. Logged in at 5 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
3. Logged in at 10 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
4. Logged in at 15 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
5. Logged in at 20 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
6. Logged in at 25 minute mark. All three items intact. I've added a bean to the jacket. Interaction should refreshed its lifetime. Logged out.
7. Logged in at 35 minute mark. All three items gone.

Thus I conclude addition of item does not refresh the lifetime of clothes.

[emuthreat 2837]

1 hour ago, tenmbits said:

Hey Brian, I've just run another test on AU 2-15. It had around 5 people. Test went like this:

1. Two hats and one jacket were dropped. Then I logged out. Started stopwatch.
2. Logged in at 5 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
3. Logged in at 10 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
4. Logged in at 15 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
5. Logged in at 20 minute mark. All three items intact. Logged out.
6. Logged in at 25 minute mark. All three items intact. I've added a bean to the jacket. Interaction should refreshed its lifetime. Logged out.
7. Logged in at 35 minute mark. All three items gone.

Thus I conclude addition of item does not refresh the lifetime of clothes.

Perhaps you should be using something other than generic loot for your testing?

Barrels might be a relevant choice.

[tenmbits 2]

30 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

Perhaps you should be using something other than generic loot for your testing?

Barrels might be a relevant choice.

Hicks said rerun it.

[emuthreat 2837]

On 3/17/2016 at 10:38 AM, [DGN] Johnny said:

If a server maxes or nearly maxes their limited items, this will cause item migration. This includes private hives, because private shards can be connected together. If barrels only stop spawning on the migration server, but don't count in the migrated server, then you have an infinite supply of limited items in which you can farm. Which obviously wouldn't be good for the server, eventually. It honestly makes server limitations on items, a restriction in theory rather then application.

Which is more or less my point, in asking the question. Is there something I'm missing there to prevent this, or just a WIP?

I remember the specific terms of target and maximum spawn quantities for the CLE decisions on when to spawn items.  If the aforementioned maximum only shuts off the spawning, but doesn't actively clean up barrels--regardless of their interaction/setup date--it seems likely that things would get out of hand. I imagine this would work much in the same way that bear traps would disappear when too many are used in a single building; the earliest one set down would disappear once a new one is deployed.  That seems like a testable situation, but would require waaaayyyyyyy more effort than I want to give it.  I reckon five people working on it for six hours would be able to farm Novaya Petrovka for enough tents to crash the server.

2 hours ago, tenmbits said:

Hicks said rerun it.

Are you trying to prove that interacting inside an item's inventory will not effectively reset the decay time of the item?  I understand that tents and barrels are not working as it was described that they should be.  I would imagine this applies to clothing as well, though I don't know if this mechanic is even supposed to apply to clothing; the context in which it was described was in relation to persistent storage items, such as barrels.

Perhaps you could run a test in which you have three of your preferred clothing test items, the first is untouched as a control group, one will have interactions within the inventory after ten minutes, and the other will be picked up and set down after five minutes.  I predict that the object being picked up is the operative condition for resetting the despawn time of the item.

The 8 day quote from hicks seems to be inconsistent with my shared experiences on the public hive throughout .59 stable.   I have a barrel somewhere by Chernaya Polana that I labeled as being found on the 11th of march, and I remember just stuffing it in a bush for later use, so I can use that one as a test case.  I'll go for a stroll later.

[pilgrim* 3514]

5 hours ago, emuthreat said:

Perhaps you should be using something other than generic loot for your testing?

Barrels might be a relevant choice.

logically the timer is set on the top level container and items inside a container are not timed

so a rag has a 'timer' when it is on the ground
if a rag is in a backpack on the ground the backpack has the 'timer', the rag despawns with the backpack
if the backpack is in a barrel the backpack has no timer it despawns with the barrel
if the backpack is on a player the backpack has no timer, the backpack despawns with the player (a live player has no despawn timer, heh)

I suggest that ATM to reset the "despawn countdown" on any item on the ground, you have to pick it up and throw it back on the ground
same for rags, guns, tents, barrels ..  ??   Seeing something listed in the UI window does not seem to count as "interacting"  ??  So what does count ??

[emuthreat 2837]

13 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

...

I suggest that ATM to reset the "despawn countdown" on any item on the ground, you have to pick it up and throw it back on the ground
same for rags, guns, tents, barrels ..  ??   Seeing something listed in the UI window does not seem to count as "interacting"  ??  So what does count ??

I'm with you on the idea that one must pick up an object, and place it back to the ground to restart the decay timer.  However Hicks_206 has stated quite directly that it *is* working differently now.  I still have yet to confirm this, or hear of anyone else confirm it.  8-day interaction dependent decay resets aren't the status quo.

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 24/03/2016 at 8:00 AM, emuthreat said:

I'm with you on the idea that one must pick up an object, and place it back to the ground to restart the decay timer.  However Hicks_206 has stated quite directly that it *is* working differently now.  I still have yet to confirm this, or hear of anyone else confirm it.  8-day interaction dependent decay resets aren't the status quo.

 

 

          DayZ last played: 13/03/2016
          Played today: 28/03/2016 = 15 days later
          3 barrels of 3 still in place (different isolated locations)

 

OK - these 3 barrels are on one server - they are at different locations
It is possible that someone "interacted" with all 3 barrels during the last 15 days, but they are well hidden at isolated and scattered locations and all the stuff is still in the barrels
(ammo for instance).
I think it is very unlikely all 3 have been found, interacted with, and then all the gear left in place. I can't believe that.

Am I missing something? - is it official now that barrels last longer than 8 days without interaction?
Mine do.

 

 

[emuthreat 2837]

I'll have to wait until the middle of April to confirm it, but I'm pretty sure that I know of a few barrels that will despawn regardless of my history of interaction with them; because I refuse to move them in order to verify that they will in fact despawn after 45 days.

Here's to hoping that I will have something better to do before then...

[moeb1us 91]

Without telling you more, I can confirm that barrels (and it should apply to all containers) now last eight days. It is unknown and fully possible that it applies only to newly deployed barrels/containers. And it appears it was an unannounced change done by the CLE/database team. 

I will wait if Brian announces it in the coming SR, if not I will make a PSA thread in the subreddit.

[emuthreat 2837]

6 hours ago, moeb1us said:

Without telling you more, I can confirm that barrels (and it should apply to all containers) now last eight days. It is unknown and fully possible that it applies only to newly deployed barrels/containers. And it appears it was an unannounced change done by the CLE/database team. 

I will wait if Brian announces it in the coming SR, if not I will make a PSA thread in the subreddit.

It sure would be nice if there were some confirmation on this point from the Devs.  I'm not sure when this change was made, but it still does not seem to be accurate to my experiences.  I really hope this won't matter by tomorrow.

As a sidenote, I do not agree with the 8 day interaction refresh system.  It forces the survivor to have a much more narrow experience.  If I have three hunting camps on the map, but can only get to one of them in a given week, I will have lost my (in-game) livelihood.  This stinks. 28 days, would be much more appropriate.

Edited March 30, 2016 by emuthreat

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

On 3/18/2016 at 2:49 AM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

There is a lot of confusing questions in here - so let me try and clear this up.

Quantities are per-server, not per hive.

Moving a barrel away from a servers local storage  to another counts it in the destination, and removes it from the source.

So what system is in place to prevent people from potentially abusing this?

A group could easily relocate their camp, for honest or nefarious reasons, to a random public server and suddenly that server would potentially end up with more than the allowed limit for barrels on that server.  Chances are, by now, there are very likely servers where the majority of barrels have been found and are already being used.  Moving more barrels to that server would do what exactly?  Delete old barrels?  Glitch the new?   If the former then obviously this could be abused.  If the latter, then people might lose a barrel to the system which could be a big deal for someone who just found a barrel somehow and wanted to set it up on a server to call home.

I don't want to even consider it but if barrels can be duped...

[pilgrim* 3514]

8 hours ago, sausagekingofchicago said:

So what system is in place to prevent people from potentially abusing this?

A group could easily relocate their camp, for honest or nefarious reasons, to a random public server and suddenly that server would potentially end up with more than the allowed limit for barrels on that server.  Chances are, by now, there are very likely servers where the majority of barrels have been found and are already being used.  Moving more barrels to that server would do what exactly?  Delete old barrels?  Glitch the new?   If the former then obviously this could be abused.  If the latter, then people might lose a barrel to the system which could be a big deal for someone who just found a barrel somehow and wanted to set it up on a server to call home.

I don't want to even consider it but if barrels can be duped...

 

duh .. there is NO system for preventing this.. READ the THREAD dude.. that's the whole point = when X barrels have spawned on a server no more barrels will spawn BUT nothing stops you bringing MORE barrels in from another server

You can BRING AS many AS YOU like.

Nothing "happens" to the barrels already on that server.

you really ought to read the thread and THINK about it a little SKC.. before asking the SAME question again.

(now go to the back of the class and stay quiet and listen)

sigh

you are one Bad sausagekingofchicago and you ought to hang your head - Bad! Bad ! Now roll over and play dead ! Go back in your basket. Go !

 

Edited March 31, 2016 by pilgrim*

[chris12138 0]

So, after reading this thread twice....

Barrels are on an 8 day despawn and merely need to be interacted with to refresh that.

Barrels placed before whenever that took effect (launch of 0.59? Sometime this month?) are subject to 45 day despawn if not interacted with.

Tents are still on 45 days despawn?

Dev said they need to be interacted with to refresh (Open? Place item or remove item?) so why are people saying they need to be emptied and moved to refresh?

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

On 3/31/2016 at 2:22 AM, pilgrim* said:

 

duh .. there is NO system for preventing this.. READ the THREAD dude.. that's the whole point = when X barrels have spawned on a server no more barrels will spawn BUT nothing stops you bringing MORE barrels in from another server

You can BRING AS many AS YOU like.

Nothing "happens" to the barrels already on that server.

you really ought to read the thread and THINK about it a little SKC.. before asking the SAME question again.

(now go to the back of the class and stay quiet and listen)

sigh

you are one Bad sausagekingofchicago and you ought to hang your head - Bad! Bad ! Now roll over and play dead ! Go back in your basket. Go !

 

Thanks for talking down to me.  I really needed that because it was missing from my life.   Such quality response and contribution was greatly needed.

If you grasped the question then perhaps you grasped what I was getting at?   The negative impact of the current system will no doubt have bugs and is easily abused AND....  could potentially have a negative impact on the server and the server's population.  I don't play on the public wreck of a hive but even on private I can imagine massive scale abuse in a number of ways based on the system described.. "by the thread".  Jesus.  Why does everyone think being a dick makes them cool?

Next time, leave your shit talking at the door.

Edited April 3, 2016 by sausagekingofchicago

[pilgrim* 3514]

14 hours ago, sausagekingofchicago said:

Thanks for talking down to me.  I really needed that because it was missing from my life.   Such quality response and contribution was greatly needed.

If you grasped the question then perhaps you grasped what I was getting at?   The negative impact of the current system will no doubt have bugs and is easily abused AND....  could potentially have a negative impact on the server and the server's population.  I don't play on the public wreck of a hive but even on private I can imagine massive scale abuse in a number of ways based on the system described.. "by the thread".  Jesus.  Why does everyone think being a dick makes them cool?

Next time, leave your shit talking at the door.

I grasped your question (an easy question) and noted that it has been asked and replied to 3 times already on this thread. I replied again in case you had missed the first couple of detailed replies..

As you say yourself << Such quality response and contribution was greatly needed.>>

When I said : << you are one Bad sausagekingofchicago and you ought to hang your head - Bad! Bad ! Now roll over and play dead ! Go back in your basket. Go ! >>

this was intended to be a JOKE between FRIENDS .. I am sorry you did not get the point there  =  I was JOKING.

If I had wanted to be unpleasant and crude I would have said stuff like "leave your shit talking at the door" and "why does everyone think being a dick makes them cool" - ya know, that kind of low level stuff. But this was not my intention, and I don't ever express myself that way.

Read around the subject (if you want to) and check the forums AND this thread  - EXACTLY your concern has been addressed fully, in words that are easy to understand without too much technicality. Everyone else who raised the question has understood the answer, even including the possible effects to individual servers.
Note - Linguistically a "negative impact" cannot "have bugs", and a "negative impact" cannot be "abused" - but I know what you mean anyway.
I don't know what you mean by "the public wreck of a hive" but I guess you are going to explain.
Moving barrels from one private server to another on a shared shard has also been discussed - there is a possibility that this might lead to "a memory problem" according to one SP employee's reported comment. You can find that topic on this forum too if you want to look for it.

Do you have any remaining questions on this topic of barrel movement between servers that you feel require a more complete answer ?

:)

enjoy

xx pilgrim
 

Edited April 3, 2016 by pilgrim*

[emuthreat 2837]

@pilgrim*, @sausagekingofchicago

You are both better than this.  At least do the civilized thing and keep it on the PM side of the forums...

Edited April 3, 2016 by emuthreat

[pilgrim* 3514]

9 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

@pilgrim*, @sausagekingofchicago

You are both better than this.  At least do the civilized thing and keep it on the PM side of the forums...

I can only speak for myself : I am not better than this :

xx

[Buakaw 274]

Someone either has severe issues or doesn't speak english too well.. or both. I don't understand how so much aggressive behaviour simply gets tolerated all the time.

On topic, can anyone confirm the 8 day thingy now? It seems to be working now, but it most certainly didn't at the time Brian posted it here, as several of the barrels I had placed several weeks ago vanished shortly after his post, even after being interacted with (and I am 100% it wasn't taken. Why? all my other, more valuable stuff next to it didn't get taken).

Edited April 3, 2016 by Buakaw

[emuthreat 2837]

It is still confusing.  One thing that I would like to test, but loathe to invest the time required, would be whether there is a  hard maximum for barrels on any given server; wherein any subsequent barrel imported from another server would de-spawn the oldest existing barrel on that server.  i really hope this is not the case; because oh the trolling you will see.

Go to the lowest populated server on a private hive, find as many barrel spawns as you can, hide them away for safekeeping in a secluded area of the map--making sure to check on the all every 8 days, repeat on the other servers on the hive, once enough barrels have been collected from the collated servers on that private hive, start dumping them all onto the same server, watch and laugh as dozens of established players start to whine about their camp having disappeared despite their having interacted with them as diligently as could be done.

Just a small concern regarding the balance of hardy persistence vs decreasing performance.

[tenmbits 2]

On 3/22/2016 at 1:06 AM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Nah - its just a 3 month old test. 

Rerun it now.

Bug report.

Interaction does not refresh lifetime of barrels.

1. Place two barrels. A, B.

2. Next day, place another barrel for verification. C.

2. only interact with B and C over the course of a week.

3. After a week, A and B disappeared. The next day, C have disappeared.

[Buakaw 274]

16 hours ago, emuthreat said:

It is still confusing.  One thing that I would like to test, but loathe to invest the time required, would be whether there is a  hard maximum for barrels on any given server; wherein any subsequent barrel imported from another server would de-spawn the oldest existing barrel on that server.  i really hope this is not the case; because oh the trolling you will see.

Go to the lowest populated server on a private hive, find as many barrel spawns as you can, hide them away for safekeeping in a secluded area of the map--making sure to check on the all every 8 days, repeat on the other servers on the hive, once enough barrels have been collected from the collated servers on that private hive, start dumping them all onto the same server, watch and laugh as dozens of established players start to whine about their camp having disappeared despite their having interacted with them as diligently as could be done.

Just a small concern regarding the balance of hardy persistence vs decreasing performance.

I don't think that is the case and probably a server can handle a couple of  "excess" barrels. Dont forget this can and probably has already been done via duping, but I guess people never really pushed it to find out whether there is a limit as to when the server will crumble.

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 03/04/2016 at 11:24 PM, emuthreat said:

I..//..

whether there is a  hard maximum for barrels on any given server;

..//..

   no there is not

the ONLY maximum for any quantity of loot of any kind IMPORTED to a server is when that server runs out of memory to deal with it and slows to a halt or crashes.
that's it - there is zero rocket science involved here -

You can bring in from other servers 10,000 barrels or more and 10,000 tents or more, with all the barrels totally full of (for instance) 1 unique ammo type - how many boxes is that? - and all the tents totally full of FALS ..and nothing will happen AT ALL except that your server MIGHT slow down -   :)   - right ??

And the memory limitation has already been suggested by SP staff as an explanation for server crashes. BUT in the software itself there IS NO LIMIT to how many barrels you can bring from outside onto one single server. Knock yourselves out, fill the server.

So with luck this topic has been covered, I guess - I pointed out the possible consequences of the loot-accumulation potential maybe two months ago (?)  about the time - or before -  the first reports came from twinned private servers on a single shard - they were crashing because the game  "ran out of memory" [quoting a Gameserver staff statement]. - Those threads got very little interest.

xx