Farming and Cooking observations

[S3V3N 1402]

Hellooo! This is a little picturebook of the difference between growing with or without fertilizer and the advantages of cooking meat in a pot. It'll also be a comparison of cooking times for the different meats/vegs.

I made two patches of land, five slots each and watered the ground. I only put fertilizer on one of the fields. I filled a jerry can with water to water the ground. Useful to have at camp. I checked for developments with the plants every five minutes and the fertilized plants took nearly half as long to grow than the plants grown on raw earth. While the fertilized plants showed growth every five minutes (roughly), the unfertilized were still in their early staged after the ferts were fully grown; which took around 11 minutes; it's a bit random which ones grow the fastest, but it mainly depends on which got water first. 2 out of 5 plants were sick on both fields. You can tear out the young plant when you see white moldy spots on the leaves. You can however let them grow too and harvest the rotten plants to cut out seeds from the fruits. 

And you can use the plant material, water and animal guts inside a closed barrel to make fertilizer (usually you don't have to add water. Somehow there is water in most barrels).  

pictures farming:

 

Spoiler

 

 

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Then I cooked everything I had on a gas cooker. We've had cow meat from hunting, fish and those tomatoes. I saw no difference in cooking time between either of them. I put them in together - they came out done at the same time. There has to be water in the pot. The advantage is you cannot "burn" the meat this way, as it will only get more poached (even the picture of it looks different than the barbecued one~a lot brighter). It takes about 1:30 for the content of the pot to cook. I'm not exact about this, because the first few batches the water is still heating up. Once you have the pot at optimal temperature, the food placed inside is prepared more rapidly than at the start; which makes it ideal for cooking larger batches. It's also ideal, because you don't get hot cooking with a pot. Cooking lots of things on a stick raises your temperature significantly. 

I ate everything from the cooking pot and nothing made me sick. It's ideal to have a small gas-cooker with you, but they are strangely hard to find now. If you come across one, keep it for later.  

pics cooking

 

Spoiler

for comparison - this is what fish looks like that'S made on a stick over the fire: 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2016 by S3V3N

[bingo_fuel 205]

On 23.2.2016 at 8:24 PM, S3V3N said:

. You can tear out the young plant when you see white moldy spots on the leaves. You can however let them grow too and harvest the rotten plants to cut out seeds from the fruits. 

You can spray the sick plants with disinfectant spray to remove the white bugs.

I did not know that cooking meat does not burn it. But it makes sense this way :-D Did you use a cooking tripod or the gas-cooker?

[S3V3N 1402]

2 hours ago, bingo_fuel said:

I did not know that cooking meat does not burn it. But it makes sense this way :-D Did you use a cooking tripod or the gas-cooker?

I used the camping/gas cooker. But the same thing happens with a tripod, of course. Important is just to get the water heated up. I find it interesting too that you can't burn boiled food. If you put no lard or water at all in the pot you can ruin the food though. Pots are pretty good containers. And you can drink the remaining water from them, even after you use them for cooking and when they are hot. 

I think I forgot about the desinfectant on plants. There are so many little things like that, which are pretty cool detail. You hear about them at one point and forget again. Good to collect little bits and pieces like this in a thread about farming. A single harvest is huge though. I'm okay with having a few rotten plants. 

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

Agriculture is definitely an interesting beast.

I've been tinkering with some science lately that seems to point to pumpkin harvests having been tamed down considerably. About two weeks ago, a harvest of pumpkin would fill a car tent on legacy UI. This week, with only changing the fertilizer from bag to plant, I had maybe a mountain backpack worth of food.

 

[S3V3N 1402]

9 hours ago, [DGN] Johnny said:

This week, with only changing the fertilizer from bag to plant, I had maybe a mountain backpack worth of food.

 

Speaking of fertilizer. Has anyone tried making their own, yet? I used fish gut and plant material in a barrel with water in it. Not that it matter much, but I always got damaged fertilizer as a result. And I had to combine several batches of it to make a 100% bag. So, I wonder if the quality of crafted fertilizer is connected to the type of guts you put into the process? I don't think there is a balanced system that lets you put in varying amounts of guts, plant material and water. It just seems to add 10% from everything up to make 10% fertilizer; it could be interesting if we could craft stronger or better fertilizer or items by varying our recipe for them. Bit deep crafting for Dayz, though.

I'm still not really sure about the whole horticulture aspect. It's done well enough and works fine. Yet, there seems to be very little reason to use it at all, except for fun and games. There is no advanced crafting or any true reason to plant food. It's just an alternative to scavenging, but without any benefit from doing it, I don't see many people farming in the game. 

[bingo_fuel 205]

I tried to make fertilizer and also got a damaged bag.

There was one experimental patch (one of the first with CLE activated so maybe it was .55) where nearly no food was spawning and the apples did not give as much energy as they give today. In this patch you really had to work to get food and farming was important. But since a few patches you check 5 houses and find 2 cans of tactical beacon and 3 cans of beans so there is no real need at all to start farming.

[BCBasher 2465]

5 hours ago, S3V3N said:

Speaking of fertilizer. Has anyone tried making their own, yet? I used fish gut and plant material in a barrel with water in it. Not that it matter much, but I always got damaged fertilizer as a result. And I had to combine several batches of it to make a 100% bag. So, I wonder if the quality of crafted fertilizer is connected to the type of guts you put into the process? I don't think there is a balanced system that lets you put in varying amounts of guts, plant material and water. It just seems to add 10% from everything up to make 10% fertilizer; it could be interesting if we could craft stronger or better fertilizer or items by varying our recipe for them. Bit deep crafting for Dayz, though.

I'm still not really sure about the whole horticulture aspect. It's done well enough and works fine. Yet, there seems to be very little reason to use it at all, except for fun and games. There is no advanced crafting or any true reason to plant food. It's just an alternative to scavenging, but without any benefit from doing it, I don't see many people farming in the game. 

I set up a barrel, garden plot, and a fish trap (when they'd still work ruined) in the little bay at north east edge of the map in .58 exp I think. The best I got was 80-90% bags always damaged with about a dozen full stacks of plant material and similar part stacks of guts (couldn't combine) but someone said they got a full one somehow. Tried reading back to find it in the .58 exp thread but it was before page fifty something and i got bored. There was a definite formula but i never figured it out.

Your last paragraph (and the hurmph, disappointing cars) is why I've lost interest and been playing other games.

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

5 hours ago, S3V3N said:

Speaking of fertilizer. Has anyone tried making their own, yet? I used fish gut and plant material in a barrel with water in it. Not that it matter much, but I always got damaged fertilizer as a result. And I had to combine several batches of it to make a 100% bag. So, I wonder if the quality of crafted fertilizer is connected to the type of guts you put into the process? I don't think there is a balanced system that lets you put in varying amounts of guts, plant material and water. It just seems to add 10% from everything up to make 10% fertilizer; it could be interesting if we could craft stronger or better fertilizer or items by varying our recipe for them. Bit deep crafting for Dayz, though.

I'm still not really sure about the whole horticulture aspect. It's done well enough and works fine. Yet, there seems to be very little reason to use it at all, except for fun and games. There is no advanced crafting or any true reason to plant food. It's just an alternative to scavenging, but without any benefit from doing it, I don't see many people farming in the game. 

I've not yet successfully made decent fertilizer. Love to hear if someone has though.

 

I think farming is really linked back to numbers and camp location. Some of the better camp locations, that have nearly no foot traffic, also have very few buildings and water sources by the nature of it. I mean, there are plenty of locations that are good, but you always rolls those dice when it comes to building near stuff like that. Farming became a necessity for one of our old camps, once we had over five people living in it. The few buildings in the area just couldn't support the amount of food consistently that was needed to operate out of there, and thusly farming became important.

That said, I've tried the Tomatoes, Cucumbers, and Pumpkins. And I've noticed that on average, scavenged food is better than farmed food. (Haven't messed around with purposely hunting or fishing much) Tomatoes give a negligible amount of calories, as do cucumbers. Pumpkins give a considerable amount of energy, but are so filling, that you'll never see a fully hydrated and energized status on your character while Pumpkin is being used for Energy. Which of course is an issue when it comes to blood.

Anyways, so yeah, I think it's really going to be tied to how large of a survivor group you're traveling with. It's super handy being able to feed 6+ people at the drop of a dime, especially in the more remote areas of the map.

 

 

 

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

6 hours ago, S3V3N said:

Speaking of fertilizer. Has anyone tried making their own, yet? I used fish gut and plant material in a barrel with water in it. Not that it matter much, but I always got damaged fertilizer as a result. And I had to combine several batches of it to make a 100% bag. So, I wonder if the quality of crafted fertilizer is connected to the type of guts you put into the process? I don't think there is a balanced system that lets you put in varying amounts of guts, plant material and water. It just seems to add 10% from everything up to make 10% fertilizer; it could be interesting if we could craft stronger or better fertilizer or items by varying our recipe for them. Bit deep crafting for Dayz, though.

I'm still not really sure about the whole horticulture aspect. It's done well enough and works fine. Yet, there seems to be very little reason to use it at all, except for fun and games. There is no advanced crafting or any true reason to plant food. It's just an alternative to scavenging, but without any benefit from doing it, I don't see many people farming in the game. 

I've not yet successfully made decent fertilizer. Love to hear if someone has though.

 

I think farming is really linked back to numbers and camp location. Some of the better camp locations, that have nearly no foot traffic, also have very few buildings and water sources by the nature of it. I mean, there are plenty of locations that are good, but you always rolls those dice when it comes to building near stuff like that. Farming became a necessity for one of our old camps, once we had over five people living in it. The few buildings in the area just couldn't support the amount of food consistently that was needed to operate out of there, and thusly farming became important.

That said, I've tried the Tomatoes, Cucumbers, and Pumpkins. And I've noticed that on average, scavenged food is better than farmed food. (Haven't messed around with purposely hunting or fishing much) Tomatoes give a negligible amount of calories, as do cucumbers. Pumpkins give a considerable amount of energy, but are so filling, that you'll never see a fully hydrated and energized status on your character while Pumpkin is being used for Energy. Which of course is an issue when it comes to blood.

Anyways, so yeah, I think it's really going to be tied to how large of a survivor group you're traveling with. It's super handy being able to feed 6+ people at the drop of a dime, especially in the more remote areas of the map.

 

 

 

[S3V3N 1402]

That's true. It makes a lot more sense for a bigger group and outside the traveled zones. It's just that there is an abundance of food, if you take the time to loot just one city. However, if you grow and harvest your own food at camp you don't have to carry any of that. I hope once weather is a reliable component in the game, they'll add a proper way to catch rainwater for your camp, too. I'm not sure if the barrels catch it or not, but they seem to have either water or gasoline in them most of the time.

Anyway, most of this - inlcuding farming - will really become more interesting after basebuilding is working. So it's nice to see the basics are working and we can possibly expect even more variation later on. Ultimately, of course, I'll want to be able to run my own food truck through the apocalypse ;) - hey, here is an idea for a mod!

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

Lol, that'd be pretty fun.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see canned goods scaled back and have thought for awhile, that items like that should be on diminishing returns. More it's farmed, less it respawns until an internal timer has elapsed. In the early stages this could be scaled with the restarts, in later stages it could boil down to a value system per each item of food and a total economic food value number. When the value isn't high enough for a food value purchase, food dosent respawn, as it goes positive it respawns a combination of foods based on their values till the total gets back to zero or a balance not high enough to "purchase" food into the economy. Rinse and repeat. To prevent too much data consumption, I could see it checking the formula every X amount of minutes, which in theory, would only make food even more scarce because you'd be behind the checking mechanism.

Later on, back to modding tools, this would be a really simple tool to make available to Server Admins, because they'd simply have to change a number like "1400" to "700" if they wanted to cut scavenge food spawns in half.

A "simple" method in the meantime is just to have the total number of spawns divisible by a fraction everytime it's looted and respawned accordingly, having the total number refreshed after a restart whether 12H or Weekly. 12H would probably be the easiest in the short time. Goes pretty well in line with high risk, high reward, as loot would be less touched as food decreased, and traveling would become more expensive. Sadly in public it'd probably encourage server hopping, but in private it could definitely give some ZPTSD as you scavange a whole town and find only a can of sardines. ^.^

 

 

 

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

I'd also like to see the need to boil or purify water become more necessary (minus water at wells). To separate the difference between running water and stagnant water. I know the disease values are turned down or shut off right now, so it may already be implemented just not necessary but still.  I'm a big believer that the more occasions this game encourages you to do other things than just simply have a weapon in your hand, is a victory for the both the shooter and the survivor portions of the game. Risk vs Reward, do you purify that needed water now, chopping down trees and building a fire, do you put considerable effort into finding tabs so you don't have to risk sickness or fires, or do you chance drinking water that may get you sick. The value of that depending on the conditions of where you found that water.

I know you always chance sickness, even now. Just hard to feel the direction with it being turned down so low. And can't confirm of boiling water is really a thing aside from cooking times.

Just thoughts ^.^

Edited February 26, 2016 by [DGN] Johnny

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

Wells going dry would also be a cool feature. X amount of uses within Y amount of time. Replenishes M over time. Later stages could go as far as graphing a basic water table that determines the value of wells or even digging your own well.  

[Whyherro123 2283]

I've always held the opinion that Day Z will never be a "survival game" until safe drinking water becomes hard to get, or at least a decent timesink.

Right now, and for the last several patches, the only way you could actually catch a water-borne disease was to be at low health. Anyone that plays the game for longer than 20 minutes knows that there is a well in literally 99% of the settlements over the map, meaning there is essentially no reason to drink from the other available sources of water. Couple that with the above fact about diseases, and they become moot.

In "actual" survival, your number one limitation is the availability of safe drinking water. Not food (at least, not for a week or two), not shelter, not fire. Drink bad water, and you will be dead in hours, if not days. Ensuring you have enough drinking water means either boiling it (requiring a fire and a time), filtering it (requiring a filter and time), or chemically treating it (requiring the chemicals and time)

In my opinion, 95%-99% of the "wells" across the Day Z map should either be removed entirely, or "broken" in some fashion. Parts to "fix" these wells could be found as loot, similar to vehicle parts. Clans, or even individuals, that find and repair pumps to working condition suddenly gain a lot of "wealth/power", in the form of a clean drinking water source. People come to trade for water, as making your own potable is a PITA and takes time and resources. Or, they could try to take it over for themselves. 

There you go, an actual reason for clan vs clan battles.

[S3V3N 1402]

We drink a lot of water though. Definitely more than the recommended daily dose :)

I wouldn't mind boiling water in a canteen every now and then, if I didn't have to drink every five minutes. I do agree on the water situation: simple things could make it interesting. Like coming to a small pond, having a good drink, only to realize there are a lot of dead fish. Investigate some more and you find some bastard has dropped a few infected corpses in the water and soiled it. Stuff like this could give nice touches of realism and desperation to the game. It just has to be in proportion. I don't want every water source to be a hazard, but it would be nice if some cautiousness was required. Drinking is already dangerous, but I'd rather have to drink less often than now, but in potentially more dangerous situations than having to drink every few minutes like it is now. If we're in the wild we should be able to drink from the lakes and rivers (some of it after cooking at least), but right now you can drink from any pool of liquid. 

However, liquids are also in the works and part of the overhaul. It may well be, we see different grades of purity and different chances for infection, depending on water quality. What excites me the most about this is that we can have much better fishing. Bobbers should work on that kind of water surface, so fishing will probably actually become fun. It could also mean we'll see some kind of rudimentary pipelines for our camps or bases. Fighting over clean water sources would be a cool objective, but I feel like the Chernarus map is the wrong environment for that. It rains a lot and there are many "natural" water sources.  

 

Edited February 26, 2016 by S3V3N

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

I have heard that toxicity in the environment is going to be ramped up, both in the air and the water. Super curious how far they are going to take it.

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

4 hours ago, Whyherro123 said:

I've always held the opinion that Day Z will never be a "survival game" until safe drinking water becomes hard to get, or at least a decent timesink.

Right now, and for the last several patches, the only way you could actually catch a water-borne disease was to be at low health. Anyone that plays the game for longer than 20 minutes knows that there is a well in literally 99% of the settlements over the map, meaning there is essentially no reason to drink from the other available sources of water. Couple that with the above fact about diseases, and they become moot.

In "actual" survival, your number one limitation is the availability of safe drinking water. Not food (at least, not for a week or two), not shelter, not fire. Drink bad water, and you will be dead in hours, if not days. Ensuring you have enough drinking water means either boiling it (requiring a fire and a time), filtering it (requiring a filter and time), or chemically treating it (requiring the chemicals and time)

In my opinion, 95%-99% of the "wells" across the Day Z map should either be removed entirely, or "broken" in some fashion. Parts to "fix" these wells could be found as loot, similar to vehicle parts. Clans, or even individuals, that find and repair pumps to working condition suddenly gain a lot of "wealth/power", in the form of a clean drinking water source. People come to trade for water, as making your own potable is a PITA and takes time and resources. Or, they could try to take it over for themselves. 

There you go, an actual reason for clan vs clan battles.

 

Controlling Water Points would also create a much better realistic reason for base building too IMO. Especially if crucial enough. Which is one my current criticisms. As much as the aesthetics of having a classic base is cool and all, without practical function it's pretty useless IMO aside from RP. Realistically the average clan is not going to be able to man it enough on a 100 man server, around the clock and unlike RL, creating a guard roster will be reserved for only the most hardcore of the hardcore. No way to lock it (aside from barricade tricks), to me, just sounds like you're increasing your footprint, thusly the ease to find your base, without any realistic advantage. Especially with aerial scouting incoming. I'd rather just bury my shit in the ground and call it a day. Roaming Mobs may change my mind on that though. We'll see.

[Buakaw 274]

On 26.2.2016 at 7:15 AM, [DGN] Johnny said:

 

Controlling Water Points would also create a much better realistic reason for base building too IMO. Especially if crucial enough. Which is one my current criticisms. As much as the aesthetics of having a classic base is cool and all, without practical function it's pretty useless IMO aside from RP. Realistically the average clan is not going to be able to man it enough on a 100 man server, around the clock and unlike RL, creating a guard roster will be reserved for only the most hardcore of the hardcore. No way to lock it (aside from barricade tricks), to me, just sounds like you're increasing your footprint, thusly the ease to find your base, without any realistic advantage. Especially with aerial scouting incoming. I'd rather just bury my shit in the ground and call it a day. Roaming Mobs may change my mind on that though. We'll see.

Completely agree with everything you said. The whole basebuilding concept is really cloudy for me in terms of gameplay balance and impact. Are players meant to be able to safely stash loot? If yes, how safe? What will be ways to safe it or break the safes? Codelocks? Keys? Explosives much like in Rust? I dont know and I will stick to hidden stashes just like you problaby.

 

On a side note, anyone else excited for this (from the changelog)?

Quote

0029681: [Weapons] FN FAL attachments (Geez) - resolved.

Here is the full changelog btw. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:uQksG-NfbzUJ:https://feedback.dayz.com/changelog_page.php&num=1&hl=en&gl=us&strip=0&vwsrc=0

Edited February 27, 2016 by Buakaw

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

10 hours ago, Buakaw said:

Completely agree with everything you said. The whole basebuilding concept is really cloudy for me in terms of gameplay balance and impact. Are players meant to be able to safely stash loot? If yes, how safe? What will be ways to safe it or break the safes? Codelocks? Keys? Explosives much like in Rust? I dont know and I will stick to hidden stashes just like you problaby.

 

On a side note, anyone else excited for this (from the changelog)?

Here is the full changelog btw. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:uQksG-NfbzUJ:https://feedback.dayz.com/changelog_page.php&num=1&hl=en&gl=us&strip=0&vwsrc=0

FN Fal attachments AND a reduction of sound on the VSS? It must be our birthdays.

[Buakaw 274]

IKR?

Another "BTW" I just discovered.  At 1:00 the chinese QBZ-03 (Type 3) is shown (650 RPM assault chambered in 5.56) with what seems to be a hunting scope on top of it.

Later a 50cal is shown and explicitly stated that it's not meant for Dayz, for the chinese one not. I guess we know another rifle possibly coming to Dayz. Or not.

 

PS: I am sorry for spamming your farming thread with this stuff but it wasn't worth making another thread for and the stable thread is locked for some reason :S

[Ultimoses 110]

15 hours ago, Buakaw said:

Here is the full changelog btw. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:uQksG-NfbzUJ:https://feedback.dayz.com/changelog_page.php&num=1&hl=en&gl=us&strip=0&vwsrc=0

I just get a "404 Page not found" when I try to open the link. Do you know another source which is still up maybe?

[Buakaw 274]

It was a cached version of the 0.60 changelog from the feedback tracker, which got compromised from what I gather and google failed us :( so no.

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

6 hours ago, Buakaw said:

It was a cached version of the 0.60 changelog from the feedback tracker, which got compromised from what I gather and google failed us :( so no.

Damnit >.< I almost saved the text version too, but just bookmarked it instead.

 

Essentially, a LOT of fixes to the NewUI. You'll see your hotbars again, will see your statuses, and will be able to use your maps. Also reading notes will no longer be hidden by your character model. The volume on the VSS should get turned down, which is nice for a weapon supposedly suppressed but sounds like an unsuppressed AK when fired. Fal will have attachments, which currently it lacks. Bunch of minor bug fixes like removing that building on top of a building in Cherno, grass in the middle of roads, and other little tweaks. I think they also have patched the V3S getting caught on weeds, which i haven't experienced myself. Those where the big changes I noticed.

[Ultimoses 110]

What a pity it got deleted, but thanks for the summary.

[S3V3N 1402]

What kind of attachments though? The FAL has three slots at the moment. Buttstock and magazine take up 2 slots, so there is one left, I guess for a scope. I wasn't actually expecting a scope that only fits the FAL and it seems there should be more attachments. I also wonder, if the foldable stock will actually fold up in the future. Though I'm not sure of the point. So that we can take a folded FAL in a big backpack?