TENTS and PERSISTENCE, Keep-Out PUBLIC SERVERS and THE DEVS

[pilgrim* 3513]

 The "Keep-Out" PUBLIC SERVERS and what THE DEVS can DO about them

Right now, Illegally kicking other players out of public hive servers means stockpiling loot objects. These do not  go back into the loot-economy circulation (no one can get to the tents and capture or move the stockpiled gear). Items are deliberately stockpiled, so the loot economy - (tplanned scarcity or common availability) -  becomes unpredictable and open to exploitation by deliberate calculated intent.

You might call this an economic collapse.

If you kick players from 'your' public server (for any reason) and stockpile loot, the server loot will go on spawning, because the loot in your tents and barrels is not counted in the spawn calculation. So you can stockpile forever safely as long as you kick.

 The problem right now is the way the economy deals with "ownership" of loot objects. Stashed items are not counted in the persistence calculation.

Obviously BI are very aware of this 'keep out' problem (of course) - and a modification of the central loot economy can deal with it.

The advantage for BI is they can do this without relying on complaints to external companies (the server providers).

BI can sort this out 100% for themselves, completely free of the SPs  who are uninterested by game-loot or fair-play.

A number of BI Devs believed and stated that movement between servers was a desirable game-play element, and the original design plan for the central loot economy was to cater for this.

So how about this suggestion to solve the problem?:

On PUBLIC servers :

1 ) Stashed loot in tents and barrels is INCLUDED in the loot spawn calculation
(when you stash too much loot, the spawn rate on your sever will drop for those items, until it stops)

2 ) The quantity of loot spawn is proportionate to the number of players on the public server
(few players = the lootspawn goes down, more players = the lootspawn goes up again
so public 2-3 player servers who 'whitelist' or kick, must let in more players for their lootspawn to go back up.

This is the ideal solution because BI is fully in control of loot distribution.

[note] For 1pp public servers, the spawn rate stays the same - (because often there are not many players on 1pp for honest reasons) and this will encourage more players to join 1pp servers.

OK:

Reduce the interest of loot hoarding  =  Make public low-pop "kick servers" less profitable.
The advantage of improved loot equilibrium, and to open up player movement between servers, is a huge step forward..

Apart from the weekend Shindig - is ANYTHING more important ?

By using loot control - the Devs can break away from the SP's complaints departments and make it work themselves for 2016 

the BEST IDEA EVER.


xx pilgrim

Hey - WE are the fanboys, right? WE can stand a few experiments - YOU are the Devs, YOU have the Balls and the Brains. Go for it.
 

Edited January 5, 2016 by pilgrim

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

How would your idea not penalize people who aren't kicking constantly?

[pilgrim* 3513]

How would your idea not penalize people who aren't kicking constantly?

 

Yes right, good point ColdAtrophy - On a public server, any admin who wants more players, if he lets them in to play - then on weekends or evenings he will never be short of players IMO.

 

Think that this is not a penalty it its a better weighting system to avoid abuse:

 

* *

 

Stashed loot in tents and barrels is INCLUDED in the loot spawn calculation

 

The quantity of loot spawning on a public server is proportionate to the number of players on the server

 

 

There is an loot economy reason that so many public servers have max 1-5 players, and "whitelist", "keep-out", and kick the other players who join.

In my honest view there are many of these "privatized" public servers. Why? Because they are very profitable in the loot economy.

 

My framework of an idea is an experiment - The advantage is: BI can do this experiment alone. No one has to try to get the SPs to police to anything.

So - players complaining to SPs will become obsolete. There won't be any need for it any longer.

 

I'm saying that loot spawn modification can deal with this BIG problem which is totally wrecking the public server loot economy. And causing bad feeling in the game.

 

*

 

In this idea - if there are a lot of players on a server there is more key loot spawn, and less if there are less players -  so it averages out. There is about the same loot per person whatever population server you play on - this is fair for all players.

On a normal public server you can search for stashed loot - this is fair game-play

On an public server that does not let in players, when the admin stores up most of the key loot, the supply begins to dry up, so the admin can't go on making his safe stash bigger and bigger - this is fair too.

 

For private servers, no change.

For 1pp public servers, also no change - to encourage more players to join 1pp.

 

 

 

xx pilgrim

 

The Central Loot Economy as it works right now, is explained clearly here:

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/223307-central-economy/#entry2243705

Thanx

Edited January 5, 2016 by pilgrim

[Espa 711]

Good idea. I'd like this in effect so that we can stop loot abuse and hinder those who have Kick Servers.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

On a public server, any admin who wants more players, if he lets them in to play - then on weekends or evenings he will never be short of players IMO.

 

This simply isn't true. Even on the 3pp public server that I play on with my group who owns the server, we never see more than about 15 people. We also have never kicked a player to my knowledge. 

[MrAerospace 87]

I've already suggested tying the server's loot economy to the current population, although I was suggesting it as a means to prevent server hopping. Perhaps it would actually stop both loot farming methods at the same time, which would be awesome.

My idea; Pick a deserted server and expect a desert.
Tie the rarity of the entire CLE (including zombies, forage and animals) to the server population. If a player joins an empty server, there will be almost nothing available, they won't see zombies, they will barely find anything to loot, and the whole thing just becomes a death march.

[pilgrim* 3513]

This simply isn't true. Even on the 3pp public server that I play on with my group who owns the server, we never see more than about 15 people. We also have never kicked a player to my knowledge. 

I understand your point ColdAtrophy

 

There are two different subjects here

1 ) Public Server misuse exists, it is documented.. it is a common problem. We both agree on this, right?

 

2 ) There is no reason at all BI would want to penalize an honest public server for having the standard average number of players - why would they (or anyone)  want to do that?

 

FIFTEEN players is about AVERAGE or slightly above, for the number of players on Public Servers that do NOT kick. Elsewhere I have given the full statistics for a night's play in my area (Western Europe) These are simply statistics, including all Public Severs I can observe.

You can check these numbers yourself.

 

The AVERAGE across all Public servers is closer to SEVEN players per server, because MANY Public Servers have only one or two players (this is because those DO kick = fact checked) and also a small handful of public serves have 40/40 players (but there are not many of these in Western Europe) My survey includes (mainly) France, UK, Spain, Belgium, Holland Germany and the Nordic Countries. The average across the board for Public Serves is 7.

 

I think you are saying that an honest Public Server has difficulty filling its slots?

 

My MEANING is that IF an administrator lets "more players" play on his 1-2 player Public Server THEN he will have more than one or two players on his kick server (without difficulty) and his spawn rate will rise when he is not hording safe loot. Also I pointed out that I am NOT suggesting "penalizing" (punishment). I am suggesting a fairer loot spawn system to make kick serves non-profitable.  In what way would this affect your honest normal-population Public Server?

 

There is no reason BI would want to penalize an honest public server for having the standard average normal number of players - why would they do that?

 

There are several spawn adjustments that can be made by BI to make one or two player servers less profitable.

We know why these serves exist, we know why their admins laugh at the SP 'sanctions'.

 

The most obvious BI action is to include stashed loot in the spawn rate calculation. On an honest server, the same quantity of loot will still be in game, players will be able to search for tents, they will still find loot, stashed as well as in standard spawn points. Of course loot in tents will not de-spawn, but it will be included in the total spawn calculation. This is not a problem. When the 'normal' spawn of rare objects goes down, players will know there are rare objects on the map in very large or multiple loot stashes. Searching for tents has always been part of the gameplay, right? 

And if stashed loot is taken off the sever, it will no longe be included in the server spawn calculation, of course.

 

Do you have any other theory why there so many Public Servers with only 1 or 2 players?

 

IF you spend an evening - or even an hour - going though your local server list and LOG ON to every Public server that has 3 or less players, you WILL find that most of these servers will kick you rapidly. If you live in France or Western Europe,I can send you a list of 26 Public servers that have a ping less than 50 in my area, and kick all other players. This list is THIS WEEKS list that I noted while I was trying to find a low ping honest daylight Public Server to PLAY.. I was Not looking for trouble or scandal, you understand. if I deliberately logged on to all the 1-2 player Public servers just to check if they DO kick, the list would be much longer =  rough calculation, 80+ servers out of 240 =  30%, but I think this is a LOW figure, there are more  IMO.. perhaps up to 50%.

 

thanx

xx pilgrim

 

This is not a solution, it is a suggestion.

Edited January 10, 2016 by pilgrim

[Espa 711]

Just an interesting idea for a solution to the abuse we see: What if by server hopping from Public to Public, all goods are kept that are on character - except weapons.

 

So while someone may be kitted up and have tons of ammunition, this would prevent people from going to No-Challenge Servers to Full Population where they can go on killing sprees. It at least hinders them by creating an obstacle that they'd have to overcome that is just as dangerous as everyone else who is playing the real experience.

[pilgrim* 3513]

On 10/1/2016 at 8:07 PM, Espa said:

Just an interesting idea for a solution to the abuse we see: What if by server hopping from Public to Public, all goods are kept that are on character - except weapons.

 

So while someone may be kitted up and have tons of ammunition, this would prevent people from going to No-Challenge Servers to Full Population where they can go on killing sprees. It at least hinders them by creating an obstacle that they'd have to overcome that is just as dangerous as everyone else who is playing the real experience.

 

Please  keep server hopping subjects out of this thread - there are many threads about server hopping and threads about limiting movement between Public Servers.

 

THIS is NOT about those subjects, thanx Espa..

 

This thread is about ONE problem = being kicked from Public Servers abusively, and what BI can do about it.

 

Abusive Public Server admins know that they are not sanctioned by Service Providers. They may "lose their server" but they lose no money they lose no time they are not listed, they can open another Public server within minutes, they can give the new server the same name as the last one.  The worst thing that can happen to them - is they have to spend 5 minutes at their keyboard to hire a new server - for no extra cost -  and have it running immediately. But even this level of sanction never happens.

 

From within the game, BI can deal with this abuse more effectively than the SPs.

Edited February 29, 2016 by pilgrim / pilgrim

[philbur 476]

I know you dont want this to become another "Server Hoppers are Assholes" discussion....but....

 

When BI eventually does something about loot whores on Public Servers (If they do anything at all, of course), it will probably affect how player counts rise and fall across the SPs.

How about just making it impossible for an Admin to kick a player before a minimum time has elapsed after log-in..unless it is a BAN or connection isssue. Also make re-spawn timers a lot longer globally.

 

It seems like the CLE will need a serious overhaul before the game goes 1.0, so I hope they are listening to ALL of these concerns.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

By not wasting your time playing on hopper, duper, ghost, glitcher, server loot cheater, and hacker infested public hive you solve the problem very quickly.  Limiting loot to include what is stashed will quickly dry up the weapons and gear as the most dedicated players will stockpile everything and currently there are way too many ways for people to cheat their stash into impossible to get places unless you yourself choose to glitch to get at them.  Good luck with that considering the number of places this can be done.  This would effectively ruin the loot on every single server, both private and public. 

 

The public hive is a silly idea anyway.  Stick to private hives with good admins and save yourself from being cheated by the majority of prickholes.

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

the most dedicated players will stockpile everything ...//..

currently there are way too many ways for people to cheat their stash into impossible to get places unless you yourself choose to glitch to get at them. 

..//..

The public hive is a silly idea anyway.

 

1 ) <<there are too many ways for people to cheat their stash into impossible to get places>>

 

What is the bug report number on this problem?  How long ago did you report it?  How often is is it mentioned in other threads?

 

2 ) <<the public hive is a silly idea anyway>>

 

The Public Hive  is what started DayZ.  It is a design decision. The majority of DayZ players are on Public Hive.

Private Servers only attract a small fraction of the players - Add up the figures, they are easily available and it does not take long.

 

thanx for the info:

If you know a way to glitch tents and barrels to make loot stockpiling safe,on Private Servers (and on Public) - then BI should be told.

the aim of this thread it to make loot distribution fair, and less open to abuse

 

xx pilgrim

Edited January 11, 2016 by pilgrim

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying pilgrim.

 

I play on one of two servers. One is a public 1pp server. The other is a 3pp server that my friends own. 99% of the time, I am on one of these two servers. Neither server ever seems to become very populated although we are working hard to develop a regular player base on the 3pp server and starting to get some regular traffic.

 

Under your system, after a few weeks of play when I have multiple camps and stashes set up on the server and there is still no one around, I will end up with the following scenario:

 

- Loot is now scarce

- New players to the server will be driven away by said scarcity

- I have nothing to do on my server, nothing else to quest for and little hope of ever increasing the population

- This server is now, for all intents and purposes, dead

- In order to continue playing, I must go to a higher population server and play there, all the while hoping that the population nevers dips, the server doesn't go offline thereby losing any and all accumulated gear, etc.

 

Your idea disincentivizes the rental of a new public server. Why would anyone EVER rent a public server at that point? Until they get a decent population going, loot will be abnormally scarce. I absolutely abhor this idea for these major, game breaking reasons, none of which have anything to do with having a "safe zone" to loot or abusive behaviors.  

 

I think I can recommend a much better idea for fixing the problem you aim to address.

 

BI needs to pay someone to enforce the rules. I can't imagine how it would take more than one, possibly two employees. They also need an option to report servers from the server browser. They could even cut out the middle-man and have those reports go directly to the GSPs.

Edited January 11, 2016 by ColdAtrophy

[pilgrim* 3513]

On 11/1/2016 at 1:16 AM, ColdAtrophy said:

..//..

 

A normal average server has a population of 15 players, tops

I do not want BI to alter spawn rates on servers that have a standard population. Do not imagine that because you have 40 slots they should all be full.

When I did the Saturday Evening count I found that 60% of users were playing on servers with 7 players or less

For the numbers of players:

I posted the statistics of players I counted on line on Saturday Night 15/12/2015 - 1800h Europe:

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/230682-make-sure-to-report-public-servers-that-kick-for-no-reason/page-3#entry2327990

It comes down to - nearly every Public server had between 7 and 15 players online.. About 60% of players were on serves of 7 or less.

This average is brought down by the many 1-2 player serves included in the calculation (of course)

Most honest Public servers seemed to be running at at TOP rate of 15 players

Only 40 public servers (out of 450) had more than 15 players, but just a small handful of those servers were 40/40

So I am not intending to knock servers with 7-15 players.Those are NORMAL Public servers. I call them "medium" servers and anything above 15 is already entering "high-pop"

We need to do something about the many 1-2 player "no-entry" public servers. I am trying to help honest server admins and help normal players, definitely not wreck their game: make it better and fairer.

 

SO - there is no problem - no change - for normal population Public servers with the normal number of players - which is between 7 and 15 players on Saturday night in Europe at present.

( aside: Notice back at the top of the thread I explained  my outline idea could also help encourage players to join 1pp servers, that's an added plus)

 

* * *

 

OK - About "policing" the Public servers, the 'badmins'

Way back I started suggesting this same solution you put forward - of policing by a pro admin working for BI and checking complaints.

I haven't heard anything back from BI or from the SPs on this subject (more than a year). No comment at all, except to follow the rules for complaints to the SPs.

One problem is that the game is being played around the world in all time-zones 24/24, so one or two people would have crazy working hours (many people play long after office hours, right?). They 'admin checkers' have to be reliable themselves of course, so they must be employees I guess. But I thought this solution was worth considering. Maybe there is a way around that.

The second (BIG)problem is that even if a public server is closed, that server admin loses nothing for it.. he does not lose any money paid up front..(terms of agreement) and he can immediately open another server with the same company, for the same price, same terms, in a couple of minutes - and go on doing exactly the same thing, and he can even give his new server the same name.

I spoke about this stuff here (for instance):

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/230682-make-sure-to-report-public-servers-that-kick-for-no-reason/page-2#entry2327303

but I have talked about this for 2 years.

 

I don't disagree with your idea of having an official BI general admin to check player complaints about Public servers - just that I have NEVER heard any word back about that idea. (Just in passing - not even ONE mod on this forum have ever given me ONE beanz for proposing an "official" Public moderator - that is their choice of course ) -  My SERIOUS view is that it is never going to happen. End of story.

I do not know why - I am sure it has been discussed at BI, but I have zero information, just the LONG SILENCE that tells it's own tale ... right? That's 100% all I know about that subject.

 

Because I realized the SPs are NOT going to help, and that their sanctions against badmins are completely ineffective - and because i realized BI are NOT going to police the servers themselves. Hey - I came up with an idea that BI could set up - as an experiment - to see how they could affect the UNFAIR play that is making the game worse for +60% of DayZ players. Just one or two spawn modifications, rarity values.. (the sort of thing that happens all the time in the normal schedule).

 

It is an idea based on the old Central Loot Economy and the reason for Public Hive Servers

Now both those are up and running, pretty solid, and the earlier problems fairly ironed out.

This is an opportunity to try some economic statistics in loot management. That is exactly what the CLE is FOR

 

=============

 

ps when you say

I have multiple camps and stashes set up on the server

- Loot is now scarce

- New players to the server will be driven away by said scarcity

 

well (firstly your server is not the aim of the exercise, because it is a normal sever) but

This is like saying there is no point going to a server with a working helicopter because someone already owns it.. if the loot is in a tent or in a barracks what is the real difference?

1 ) same quantity of loot = same game fun, the loot is in different places but it is still on the map

2 ) less serve hoppers =  more tent searchers = more players who stay a longer time on the server

 

For a 1-2 person "no-entry" server - the admin is exactly the person who does not want players coming to his server looking for his safe loot. That's why he kicks them.

Also, if the "no entry" servers are opened up, then we all know those servers have big stashes of tents, right? We can go and hunt there instead of being kicked out.

 

good luck, & thanks for the intelligent comments

(it's good to know someone thinks about this)

xx pilgrim

Edited February 29, 2016 by pilgrim / pilgrim

[philbur 476]

 

BI needs to pay someone to enforce the rules. I can't imagine how it would take more than one, possibly two employees. They also need an option to report servers from the server browser. They could even cut out the middle-man and have those reports go directly to the GSPs.

 

OK, I'll bite. What Rules would need to be enforced?

I can't think how stashing loot is breaking any basic guidelines for server operators. As much as I would like it, how would the "watchdogs" scan servers for abnormal Admin or player loot hoarding? How would you enforce these kinds of constraints on Private Shards?

 

I WILL be doing persistence wipes on my own server until base building is in full effect, and even then, I think there might be enough demand for "clean" servers that people might enjoy jumping in for week-long adventures. We'll see, I guess.... DayZmod had so much loot available that even on well-established servers with loooong persistence cycles there was still enough to go around. Standalone is different in it's approach, so I am looking forwards to how the team is going to address this.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

OK, I'll bite. What Rules would need to be enforced?

 

You missed the point of this. We are discussing the public server owners that kick anyone who tries to join so they have an entire server to themselves that they can use to gear up in peace.

 

The rules that need to be enforced are these ones: 

 

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/158966-dayz-standalone-server-hosting-rules-server-reporting/

Edited January 11, 2016 by ColdAtrophy

[philbur 476]

 

ps when you say

I have multiple camps and stashes set up on the server

- Loot is now scarce

- New players to the server will be driven away by said scarcity

 

well (firstly your server is not the aim of the exercise, because it is a normal sever) but

This is like saying there is no point going to a server with a working helicopter because someone already owns it.. if the loot is in a tent or in a barracks what is the real difference?

1 ) same quantity of loot = same game fun, the loot is in different places but it is still on the map

2 ) less serve hoppers =  more tent searchers = more players who stay a longer time on the server

 

For a 1-2 person "no-entry" server - the admin is exactly the person who does not want players coming to his server looking for his safe loot. That's why he kicks them.

Also, if the "no entry" servers are opened up, then we all know those servers have big stashes of tents, right? We can go and hunt there instead of being kicked out.

 

 

Using this logic, then, means SA will inevitably become the PVP Base-Raiding abomination the MOD has evolved into?

A consideration is the eventual release of a Single Player version of this game. Maybe it will reduce the number of Public servers and maybe it will encourage server operators to be more involved in bringing players into their offering. I can actually see myself having fun (for a short while) loading up a huge number of infected and just surviving. I am SURE hostile AI will eventually be modded into the game as well, so there might be a whole new game to mess with eventually.

 

Lone Wolf players are ultimately the ones that are going to get screwed, here... Hermits and Base-Builders will be the reason for loot-less maps.

I am being selfish here, as I exclusively play as a Lone Wolf Hero, and since I do not KOS I am resigned to loot Bandits I catch or wait to get lucky on a loot re-spawn. As the game progresses I will pretty much be stuck playing on Private Shards and joining up with a group in order to enjoy the "good" gear.

Edited January 11, 2016 by philbur

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

1 ) <<there are too many ways for people to cheat their stash into impossible to get places>>

 

What is the bug report number on this problem?  How long ago did you report it?  How often is is it mentioned in other threads?

 

2 ) <<the public hive is a silly idea anyway>>

 

The Public Hive  is what started DayZ.  It is a design decision. The majority of DayZ players are on Public Hive.

Private Servers only attract a small fraction of the players - Add up the figures, they are easily available and it does not take long.

 

thanx for the info:

If you know a way to glitch tents and barrels to make loot stockpiling safe,on Private Servers (and on Public) - then BI should be told.

the aim of this thread it to make loot distribution fair, and less open to abuse

 

xx pilgrim

 

 

The devs are aware of the issue.  Have been for some time.  I could probably dig up the very first report of this but proof of their awareness is already in the Status Reports if you read them.  I was going to give you a hint at how and why but I really don't want to contribute to the problem.

 

The Public Hive was a feature of the mod.  it was not the reason people came to play it.  Most people abandoned the public hive of the mod long before the SA was even on Steam.  The private servers I play on are full 18 hours out of the day.  It's mostly just people that want to hop for loot and the people that prey on that behavior that stick to the public hive now.

 

Anyway, your suggestion would make server hopping, server wipes, and join=kick servers far worse as the loot dries up as all the good stuff ends up in tents and barrels.  I'm certain the devs could include stored items in the economy but I'm certain they're aware of what would happen if they did.  I imagine you'll be able to mod that in yourself at a later date if you think it's that big of an issue but I doubt this is going to end up in vanilla.

Edited January 11, 2016 by SausageKingofChicago

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I don't disagree with your idea of having an official BI general admin to check player complaints about Public servers - just that I have NEVER heard any word back about that idea. (Just in passing - not even ONE mod on this forum have ever given me ONE beanz for proposing an "official" Public moderator - that is their choice of course -  My SERIOUS view is that it is never going to happen. End of story.

I do not know why - I am sure it has been discussed at BI, but I have zero information, just the LONG SILENCE that tells it's own tale ... right? That's 100% all I know about that subject.

 

In that latest interview video with Hicks:

 

 

he said that enforcing the server rules was not particularly pertinent to development at this time so I'm guessing that they just don't really care about it right now.  Hopefully they will eventually try harder to get this kind of abuse in line.

 

 

A normal average server has a population of 15 players, tops

I do not want BI to alter spawn rates on servers that have a standard population. Do not imagine that because you have 40 slots they should all be full.

 

 

We get to 15 players during peak times, sure. But I don't always play at peak times. Sometimes, I'm the only person on. Not usually for long what with hoppers and all, but still. Sometimes we don't have more than 5 players for several hours. I don't want my looting experience shit on because of some admins that are breaking the rules. That's all I'm saying here. Sorta defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Edited January 11, 2016 by ColdAtrophy

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

The Public Hive was a feature of the mod.  it was not the reason people came to play it.  

..//..

It's mostly just people that want to hop for loot and the people that prey on that behavior that stick to the public hive now.

..//..

 

You said two silly false things in a row !

 

..//..

We get to 15 players during peak times, sure. But I don't always play at peak times. Sometimes, I'm the only person on. Not usually for long what with hoppers and all, but still. Sometimes we don't have more than 5 players for several hours. I don't want my looting experience shit on because of some admins that are breaking the rules. That's all I'm saying here. Sorta defeats the purpose doesn't it?

 

Yes it's a problem, I agree.

 

BUT I see that close to half the players online are on 1-3 player kick-servers - it has become extremely popular to exploit this weakness in the system.

So it could be that if something were done about those servers, the honest servers would have their populations doubled?

 

Unless maybe the "we-kick-clan" got so pissed off at not being able to exploit DayZ that they all gave up playing? But it is ATM a mass population game, I think very many people would be ready to play fairly when the great advantage of playing unfairly were taken away from them.

 

I'm not saying this will happen in this way. I have no idea if fair-play populations will go up when bad admins are weeded out.

BUT I am certainly not trying to close down fair-play Public Hive servers. there has to be a way through this, with some thought.

 

BI have total control over the loot economy.

It is exactly the loot economy that governs and guides player actions..

Control of the economy means you decide what is worthwhile and what is not, what is rare, how many items you can carry, how many you can stock in a barrel.. how many barrels there are per server. Even how many of the SAME items can be stored in one tent (for instance) ..

The Devs control where, when, why, what, spawns, at what rate, how rare, how it is stored, how long it lasts. 

 

BI own all that totally. They can do what they like with it.

so if they wanted to make a move to end this abuse .. which I am told they do not ATM (!?)  the loot economy would be a good place to start. There will be ways that economy be used to disadvantage the exploiters.

 

In any Alpha game, a fundamental structural weakness that opens up widespread easy exploit play must be addressed immediately.

Particularly in the Alpha stage - right a the start as soon as it is noticed.

This serious structural flaw is destroying the game while it is still in In Alpha - it has to be dealt with as high priority. 

Otherwise your game is wrecked before it gets out of Alpha, it is already too late.

 

I guess games designers know that

 

xx

[stinkenheim 249]

BI own all that totally. They can do what they like with it.

so if they wanted to make a move to end this abuse .. which I am told they do not ATM (!?)  the loot economy would be a good place to start. There will be ways that economy be used to disadvantage the exploiters.

 

 

I'm guessing that if BI dedicated time to combating abusive servers the forums would fill up with complaints like 'why are they wasting time on that when the game runs like shit'. Kind of like the arguments that happen every time a new model or item is shown, people don't understand that different departments deal with different areas and will complain unless it is the exact thing that they want to see done.

I don't think this is a massive issue whilst the game is in Alpha, towards the end of Beta and certainly upon full release yes. But not now.

[thefriendlydutchman 159]

Yes right, good point ColdAtrophy - On a public server, any admin who wants more players, if he lets them in to play - then on weekends or evenings he will never be short of players IMO.

 

Think that this is not a penalty it its a better weighting system to avoid abuse:

 

* *

 

Stashed loot in tents and barrels is INCLUDED in the loot spawn calculation

 

The quantity of loot spawning on a public server is proportionate to the number of players on the server

 

 

There is an loot economy reason that so many public servers have max 1-5 players, and "whitelist", "keep-out", and kick the other players who join.

In my honest view there are many of these "privatized" public servers. Why? Because they are very profitable in the loot economy.

 

My framework of an idea is an experiment - The advantage is: BI can do this experiment alone. No one has to try to get the SPs to police to anything.

So - players complaining to SPs will become obsolete. There won't be any need for it any longer.

 

I'm saying that loot spawn modification can deal with this BIG problem which is totally wrecking the public server loot economy. And causing bad feeling in the game.

 

*

 

In this idea - if there are a lot of players on a server there is more key loot spawn, and less if there are less players -  so it averages out. There is about the same loot per person whatever population server you play on - this is fair for all players.

On a normal public server you can search for stashed loot - this is fair game-play

On an public server that does not let in players, when the admin stores up most of the key loot, the supply begins to dry up, so the admin can't go on making his safe stash bigger and bigger - this is fair too.

 

For private servers, no change.

For 1pp public servers, also no change - to encourage more players to join 1pp.

 

 

 

xx pilgrim

 

The Central Loot Economy as it works right now, is explained clearly here:

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/223307-central-economy/#entry2243705

Thanx

 

I think your shift key might be stuck, get that checked out ;)

[pilgrim* 3513]

I think your shift key might be stuck, get that checked out ;)

 

I'm trying to explain something, but it seems some folk are not very bright, like *simple* dudes who quote a whole post to make one silly comment. Thanks for your help jerk818 - I'll do my best to get my shift key functioning the way you want it -  In the meantime try to understand the thread. How's your server ? Big clan? Lots of loot? You never kick players, right? Bring your brain to the discussion.

 

xx pilgrim

Edited January 21, 2016 by pilgrim

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

I don't think this is a massive issue whilst the game is in Alpha, towards the end of Beta and certainly upon full release yes. But not now.

 

i worry about that stinkenheim (yes folk will complain):

 

Your view is is like saying - <<ok you bought Battlefield in Alpha, but now in Final we're telling you it's really Mario - So now you players can't do that Arena stuff you've been playing for the last 2 years, you have to play Mario. Hope that doesn't piss you off.>>>

Look at the forums - everyone discussing different things they want in the game: different guns, stuff needs fixing, horses, very rare items, more choice, hunting, new objects, stashes, helis that fly.. everyone talking about equipment, game mechanics, crafting and loot.

But all that talk doesn't matter because I have a neat design exploit that gives me everything I want all the time.

I have my own server at home just for me, where I can collect anything I want, with zero risk, as much as I like - then I can go and play on other servers  - nothing is rare, there is no risk, no competition, I collect everything in private. I don't let others in. When I'm offline I turn my server off so no one can get my stuff.

So I start the game already geared up x10.

It's SO cool. In fact a lot of people love playing this way.

People are buying-in exactly to play this infinite-loot PvP game. You have your own stash of no-danger loot on your "home" server, and you play across all the other public servers. Always geared up and death means nothing.

So stinkenheim, friend -  You can't really think that this "Wrong Game" should be left like that - all the way to final release - then in a year the Devs have to say:

<<Oh by the way, you can't play the game you've been playing all year -  you hired a server to play that game, but in fact that was just a server exploit we decided not to fix. Sorry if you bought the wrong game. Too bad.>>

I think the important stuff - like what KIND of game you are buying - needs sorting soonest.

 

xx

Edited January 21, 2016 by pilgrim