Shot guns

[NotRedd 51]

So the saiga-12 has been confirmed and in the works and blah blah.

 

What I want to know is what attachments  we can potentially get for the shot guns, Personally chokes would be AMAZING. Adjustable chokes would be better! Also when they add slugs back in, why not be able to get rifled barrels for the shot guns in? You have smooth bore already, but rifled would be better for slugs.

Point is I'm pretty excited for the new weapon to be added in. 

 

What other shot guns do you guys want in or anything you'd like to see added for them?

[Rags! 1966]

To be honest...those seem to fill about every role there is. Though I would not be surprised if we get a break action single shotgun like the useless, pointless, never once used by anybody 7.62 rifle. 

 

All the other types are sorta filled. Pumps, double barreled, and now semiautomatic.

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

Is the Saiga going to be full or semi auto? Full auto would be cool with say 20 round drum magazine, but it should suffer from occasional missfeed like the real one does. I'd like to see slugs back in too. And rifled barrels added in, why not?

[scrubbie_mcnoob 136]

You have smooth bore already, but rifled would be better for slugs.

 

 

Um, wouldn't that just make it a rifle and not a shotgun? I've got some solids (slugs) for my shotgun, and they have helical grooves cast into them to act as rifling.

[robophant 102]

AA12 HE please! thank you!

[emuthreat 2837]

To be honest...those seem to fill about every role there is. Though I would not be surprised if we get a break action single shotgun like the useless, pointless, never once used by anybody 7.62 rifle. 

 

All the other types are sorta filled. Pumps, double barreled, and now semiautomatic.

I was going to use one of those useless rifles earlier this week, but then I got dead.  Apparently it looks enough like a gun to get you killed, but won't work enough like a gun to save you.

 

Back on topic, I haven't been having much luck with sawn-offs lately.  Even using it to keep freshly made bambis from running back to their gear is not as effective.  I miss the days when a guy behind the door with a shotgun actually had some degree of certainty that the sniper would not get immediately overrun.  Hopefully we see shotguns returned to their former glory. With shottys being loud as fuck, cumbersome to reload, having somewhat rare ammo, and being slow to reload, it seemed like they were balanced out just fine a few months ago.

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

AA12 HE please! thank you!

 

It's a cool gun, but kind of like the Golden Deagle - how would you explain finding one in Chernarus?

[robophant 102]

It's a cool gun, but kind of like the Golden Deagle - how would you explain finding one in Chernarus?

 

I wouldn't, I just want :D

[Yuval 221]

I have made a USAS-12 model for DayZ (which I had to change and run it on ArmA 3 since we don't have mod tools yet), I haven't added any attachments and with ArmA 3 (where it is not rly a shotgun because no shotguns in arma 3) - the attachments are very limited anyway where you can only have bipods, flashlights, scopes and muzzle attachments and in DayZ you could make dafuq you want really...

 

Once I could work with it on DayZ - I am planning to have it mounted with the pistol / crossbow scopes (the Holosight and Pistol scope slot, custom chokes IF IT'S POSSIBLE, drum and regular mags of 12 gauge. This shotgun could really be a rare powerful shotgun considering the semi-auto and adjusted bullet spread.

 

Obviously - the piece of shit saiga 12 will be the first ever military grade shotgun in dayz I guess :(

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, and no frag ammo.... lol

Edited October 31, 2015 by StanleyWasHappy

[Bororm 1156]

I think they paint themselves into a corner with some of these weapons.  I don't have a problem with not balancing weapons in terms of damage to maintain some level of realism, some weapons are going to be better than others just like in the real world, but it doesn't mean they need to add drum mags to everything.  I don't know the capacities for regular mags, or drum mags for saigas but quick google showed 20-30 round drums being a thing.

 

Consider the current state of pvp, which is to sprint up to each other and spray with assault rifles from the hip.  There's no way a semi auto shotgun with a large capacity isn't going to just be ridiculously easy/devastating in this type of scenario.  Even with the shitty shotgun damage/characteristics currently, spraying people down with this thing is going to be ridiculous.

 

The other shotguns are pretty undesirable currently because of funky damage/spread/whatever issues, and if those issues are fixed they're going to carry over to the saiga making it even more powerful.  If they aren't fixed, then the current shotguns will become even less desirable in comparison.

 

TL;DR:  The team has some weird ass problems with shotguns, and they need to stop adding drum mags.

[cash81 506]

Um, wouldn't that just make it a rifle and not a shotgun? I've got some solids (slugs) for my shotgun, and they have helical grooves cast into them to act as rifling.

Those grooves don't do jack. They are a combo of marketing and copyright. The reason your foster slugs have any accuracy to about 50 yrds is because they are front/top heavy like a badminton bird (shuttlecock). Those grooves dont make your bullet "spin".

The only time a shotgun slug will spin is if you fire a sabot style through a rifled choke tube or rifled barrel.

The plastic sabot gets caught in the rifling and that imparts spin on the slug as it leaves the barrel.

[Whyherro123 2283]

To be honest...those seem to fill about every role there is. Though I would not be surprised if we get a break action single shotgun like the useless, pointless, never once used by anybody 7.62 rifle. 

 

All the other types are sorta filled. Pumps, double barreled, and now semiautomatic.

 

Exactly. Some of the firearms in the game are just ..... I don't know why they were added.

At least shotguns in real life are versatile. You can have birdshot, buckshot, slugs. flares, beanbags, various "homemade" ( wax slugs, etc) slugs, etc. Plus, shotguns are easy to hand-load, and can be loaded up with blackpowder.

 

A single-shot 7.62x39mm rifle is ..... not so useful.

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

I was going to use one of those useless rifles earlier this week, but then I got dead.  Apparently it looks enough like a gun to get you killed, but won't work enough like a gun to save you.

 

Back on topic, I haven't been having much luck with sawn-offs lately.  Even using it to keep freshly made bambis from running back to their gear is not as effective.  I miss the days when a guy behind the door with a shotgun actually had some degree of certainty that the sniper would not get immediately overrun.  Hopefully we see shotguns returned to their former glory. With shottys being loud as fuck, cumbersome to reload, having somewhat rare ammo, and being slow to reload, it seemed like they were balanced out just fine a few months ago.

 

I agree definitely. At least still in 0.55 shotguns were very good at close ranges, my favorites really because I've used guns for defence mainly. Things must have changed in between, because some weeks ago when I started to play again I soon got into a situation while carrying a double barreled. First managed to shoot the other guy's legs off at 20 meters distance, and then took a perfect double shot at 2 meters. I could see the whole spread in blood in his torso - but the guy was still alive and actually killed me few seconds later just because I was confident he couldn't have survived.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

It's a cool gun, but kind of like the Golden Deagle - how would you explain finding one in Chernarus?

FPS russia?

Just one USA12 would literally keep me going for 72hours flat.  If there were HE with it i'd probably not sleep ever.  Alas a fully automatic shotgun wouldn't be too practical and probably cumbersome as hel.

[emuthreat 2837]

I think they paint themselves into a corner with some of these weapons.  I don't have a problem with not balancing weapons in terms of damage to maintain some level of realism, some weapons are going to be better than others just like in the real world, but it doesn't mean they need to add drum mags to everything.  I don't know the capacities for regular mags, or drum mags for saigas but quick google showed 20-30 round drums being a thing.

Shotguns are a serious threat.  Unlike assault weapons, which can hold as many as fifty booletts in a clip, and multiple clips per magazine, and discharge each clip per magazine instantly; the drums of shotguns are a weapon of mass dizztrucktshun.  You see, in a shotgun shell, you already have like, affinity booletts per shell, and can fit many shells of booletts into a single clip.  if you were to put a magazine of shotshellz clips full of booletts into a drum, you could, literally, shoot everyone all at the same time with at least twenty shells of booletts apiece; unless they are standing across the street in which case all the booletts would not make it that far. That's just not fair.

 

Seriously though, a drum mag on an automatic shotgun is gonna be ruinously OP.

 

It shouldn't be a problem if the drum mags are somewhat prone to failure, or at the very least requiring manual feed assist from time to time.

The real problem, IMO, is with balancing the massive amount of close up firepower of a drum, with the currently impotent shotgun damage/spread.  Shotguns need some fixing for sure.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Shotguns are a serious threat.  Unlike assault weapons, which can hold as many as fifty booletts in a clip, and multiple clips per magazine, and discharge each clip per magazine instantly; the drums of shotguns are a weapon of mass dizztrucktshun.  You see, in a shotgun shell, you already have like, affinity booletts per shell, and can fit many shells of booletts into a single clip.  if you were to put a magazine of shotshellz clips full of booletts into a drum, you could, literally, shoot everyone all at the same time with at least twenty shells of booletts apiece; unless they are standing across the street in which case all the booletts would not make it that far. That's just not fair.

 

Seriously though, a drum mag on an automatic shotgun is gonna be ruinously OP.

 

It shouldn't be a problem if the drum mags are somewhat prone to failure, or at the very least requiring manual feed assist from time to time.

The real problem, IMO, is with balancing the massive amount of close up firepower of a drum, with the currently impotent shotgun damage/spread.  Shotguns need some fixing for sure.

 

In my opinion, all firearms should be prone to failure, depending first on "condition" (read: cleanliness, giving you a reason to actually pick up those cleaning kits, or to just field-strip it and wipe the bits down with an oily rag), and then on mechanism.

 

After that, the mechanism of firing would determine how likely a firearm is to jam, going from "least likely" to "more likely" (not "most likely", just "more")

- Manual action: Break-open shotguns and rifles

-User action: lever action rifles, bolt action rifles, pump shotgun

- Semi Auto

-Fully Auto

 

And then, depending on how complex the devs want to make it, they could add in magazines and such, to give different "reasons" for malfunctions. Leave that AKM magazine loaded for a week? It "goes down in condition" due to spring wear and fails to feed properly. Take it out and try a new magazine. Don't clean your rifle regularly? A round fails to eject due to dirty mechanism. Work the charging handle and try again. Slog through mud and water, fail to clean the rifle after that, AND dump a magazine on full-auto? Woo boy.

 

Would definitely make combat more interesting than the current "sprint up and spray" thing there is going on. Asides, it wouldn't be "too" bad. You would either have to work the charging handle/bolt or switch magazines. Unless you course, you absolutely fucked the firearm, in which the only thing you could do is field-strip it. A rather dicey thing to do when under fire  :D

[q.S Sachiel 470]

dodgy round fails to fire.  Round is too big to eject.

hillarity ensues.

[Rags! 1966]

In my opinion, all firearms should be prone to failure

 

I disagree from a gameplay standpoint.

 

A weapon that is Pristine or Worn using Pristine or Worn magazines and Pristine or Worn bullets should always work. Players can travel hours to find weapons, hours to find enemy players, hours to gear up. Dying because your Pristine weapons with a Pristine magazine filled with Pristine bullets simply didn't function...that should never happen. 

 

Ever. Not once. That should not ever happen. Ever. 

 

There's difficulty, yes. DayZ shouldn't be easy. But that's not an example of something that can be planned for or that you can compensate for with experience or skill or intuition. That's just a random punishment to a player that cannot be circumvented. That's a player who dies because his Pristine gear failed him. A random digital roll of the dice got a player killed beyond his ability to impact in any way.

 

The whole point of Pristine and, to an extent Worn, equipment is that they function. Can weapons jam or misfire in real life? Of course, and for multiple reasons. But those chances should be relegated to Damaged weaponry, magazines, and ammunition. Not equipment that is in perfect condition or is aesthetically worn, but still completely functional. In real life, you have to poop. Even all those super hot babes on the Playboy covers. They poop, too. But not all aspects of realism translate well into video game scenarios. Having a weapon that is Damaged should always carry the weight of failure possibility with it. Making sure to keep your weapons above that level is key. If even Pristine weapons do not function, then the game because, in essence, a game of "cross your fingers with every trigger pull you make and hope for the best."

 

The last thing you want is for players to be staring at a "You are dead." message with gaping mouths of incredulity because they got cheated. And that's what I would call a Pristine gun with Pristine bullets in a Pristine magazine failing to function.  

 

Being cheated. 

[PongoZ 127]

and how do you feel when the other guy gets the bounce on you and his gun goes click?

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Adequately maintained weapons are quite capable of failure in many ways.

Pristine shouldn't make a weapon completely reliable.

 

Also consider the condition of the ammunition.

 

Stalker weapons failed above 50%

America's army 2 required you to charge the M16 at least once every round.

[bfisher 561]

I disagree from a gameplay standpoint.

 

A weapon that is Pristine or Worn using Pristine or Worn magazines and Pristine or Worn bullets should always work. Players can travel hours to find weapons, hours to find enemy players, hours to gear up. Dying because your Pristine weapons with a Pristine magazine filled with Pristine bullets simply didn't function...that should never happen. 

 

Ever. Not once. That should not ever happen. Ever. 

 

There's difficulty, yes. DayZ shouldn't be easy. But that's not an example of something that can be planned for or that you can compensate for with experience or skill or intuition. That's just a random punishment to a player that cannot be circumvented. That's a player who dies because his Pristine gear failed him. A random digital roll of the dice got a player killed beyond his ability to impact in any way.

 

The whole point of Pristine and, to an extent Worn, equipment is that they function. Can weapons jam or misfire in real life? Of course, and for multiple reasons. But those chances should be relegated to Damaged weaponry, magazines, and ammunition. Not equipment that is in perfect condition or is aesthetically worn, but still completely functional. In real life, you have to poop. Even all those super hot babes on the Playboy covers. They poop, too. But not all aspects of realism translate well into video game scenarios. Having a weapon that is Damaged should always carry the weight of failure possibility with it. Making sure to keep your weapons above that level is key. If even Pristine weapons do not function, then the game because, in essence, a game of "cross your fingers with every trigger pull you make and hope for the best."

 

The last thing you want is for players to be staring at a "You are dead." message with gaping mouths of incredulity because they got cheated. And that's what I would call a Pristine gun with Pristine bullets in a Pristine magazine failing to function.  

 

Being cheated. 

 

I think that's what he was getting at.  Pristine weapons should never jam.  Damaged weapons, you're lucky if it doesn't explode in your face.  A pristine magazine should be rare.  But weapons should also require regular cleaning and maintenance or they degrade.  Especially if you get them wet or leave them on the ground.  Not so much cleaning that it becomes tedious, but enough that it's something that needs to be done regularly. 

 

The more those sort of mechanics can be added to the game, the less DayZ becomes "grab an AK and shoot someone in the fact".

 

Do you feel cheated if you rush that bandit in desperation with nothing but a garden hoe, only to find out the gun he was brandishing was completely unusable?

[Whyherro123 2283]

I think that's what he was getting at.  Pristine weapons should never jam.  Damaged weapons, you're lucky if it doesn't explode in your face.  A pristine magazine should be rare.  But weapons should also require regular cleaning and maintenance or they degrade.  Especially if you get them wet or leave them on the ground.  Not so much cleaning that it becomes tedious, but enough that it's something that needs to be done regularly. 

 

The more those sort of mechanics can be added to the game, the less DayZ becomes "grab an AK and shoot someone in the fact".

 

Do you feel cheated if you rush that bandit in desperation with nothing but a garden hoe, only to find out the gun he was brandishing was completely unusable?

Pretty much. A Pristine Rifle firing Pristine Ammo from a Pristine Magazine should be like butter. Not that it should be completely free from jams/malfunctions (firing an assault rifle filly-cyclic can jam it, regardless of the cleanliness of the mechanism. It is just how the thing works. The more moving parts, and the faster they have to move, the more that can "go wrong"), but the chances of a malfunction happening when you have all Pristine components should be very low.

 

Conversely, actually finding "Pristine" firearm components (the firearm, the magazine, and the bullets) should be rather difficult. Finding one should be a "Fuck yeah!" moment, not a "meh, another AKM magazine" moment. Want to make sure your components are clean? Field-strip the thing, clean it out, oil it, and prevent water and mud from getting in the works. Soldiers carried condoms to protect the mechanisms of their rifles from water and dust. Instead of throwing your rifle on the floor of a tent, why not put it in a locker or on a rack (after cleaning it, of course).

 

Finally, a jammed firearm isn't the end of the world. The main malfunctions I would like to see would be fixed by either 1) working the charging handle/bolt or 2) replacing the magazine. Both of those actions take about 1.2 seconds in-game