Complexity of damage given.

[cornholio308 33]

Continuing from my previous post about body armor and how it should ideally work " https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/221376-bullet-resistant-protection-actually-giving-bullet-resistant-protection/ ", closer to its more true to life cousin "VBS3". If done correctly it could be another one of those shiny diamonds that brings people like me that love games that are authentic and immersive "being shot with a 9mm with a plate carrier on and being wounded breaks that immersion" back to dayz time and time again. But with that said the damage system in dayz is actually fairly bad. Arma 3 is doing it right in the hitbox department with far more hitboxes that could be coded to do different types of damage varying in severity. However for that achievement the game takes a big steamy crap on it by having a health bar represented by a percentage of health, add that to the fact that body armor just increases that health bar offering no real protection and it just leaves you scratching your head as to why it was designed that way and left like that as if it was a fully functioning part of the game. My only question now is if dayz will correct arma 3's shortcomings again by doing this part of the game right. This is up for debate but in my opinion simply having some contact in medical practice, be it a nurse/doctor/field medic could bring vast knowledge on tap to the developers if they wished to make the damage system more complex. The reason I believe this can be such a huge step up for the enfusion engine is by the actual difference it will make in game, in order to get effective/instantaneous kills you would have to hit vital parts of the body. To simplify things I will just break the body down into some parts and describe the kind of effect damaging those parts of the body would inflict. 

Head

 

Blunt trauma = slightly blurred screen, screen wobbling, sensitivity to light, Being knocked unconscious, fatal. 

Bullet = instantaneous death if bullet enters the neurocranium or hits the spine, the facial skeleton can inflict serious shock damage sending you into unconsciousness but its highly unlikely to cause instantaneous death. 

Sharp object = Heavy blood loss, depending on the size and weight of the blade or piercing weapon it can cause instantaneous death.

Lungs 

 

Bullet = heavily decreased stamina if one lung is penetrated and needs immediate medical attention otherwise both lungs will be effected and in quick fashion loss of consciousness will occur and shortly after death due to lack of oxygen. If both lungs are penetrated then it speeds up the whole process. 

Sharp object = same effect as a bullet. 

Heart

 

Bullet = instantaneous death. 

Sharp object = instantaneous death.

Guts

 

Bullet = heavy blood loss, but no instantaneous death here folks. requires immediate medical attention or consciousness will be lost and death shortly following. 

Spine

 

Bullet = instantaneous death.

Sharp object = if the weapon is heavy and big enough to get through the spines protection then instantaneous death will occur. 

Blunt trauma = like the sharp object if the weapon is heavy or big enough to sever the spine then instantaneous death will occur. 

 

arms

 

Bullet = medium / low blood loss. severity of this wound is not capable of ever inflicting an instantaneous death but if left untreated blood loss will result in loss of consciousness and death. 

Sharp object = low blood loss, though if left untreated unconsciousness followed by death. 

 

Blunt trauma = Capable of breaking bones and low blood loss. Needs medical assistance to fix broken bones and blood loss. 

Legs

 

Bullet = in upper thigh high/medium blood loss, severity of this wound is not capable of ever inflicting an instantaneous death, lower leg and foot medium/low blood loss. Needs medical assistance to stop bleeding or will result in loss of consciousness and death. 

Sharp object = medium/low blood loss, without medical assistance will result in unconsciousness and death. 

 

Blunt trauma = Possibility of broken bones if struck with a heavy or big enough weapon and low blood loss, Needs medical assistance to fix broken bones and blood loss.
 

 

 

 

 

There we have it, and before someone says something this complex cannot be done. Yes, yes it can. The hitboxes will be the first issue, making them as complex as arma 3 or above. Then coding the hitboxes surrounding the body parts to do the damage accordingly. I am sure the coders are more than capable. The resulting effect of something like this. Less instantaneous deaths from wounds that are not capable of inflicting instantaneous death and if the goal is to achieve these types of kills then accuracy is key. No more shooting people in legs being more effective than shooting them in the upper chest. If you shoot someone into the leg and they shoot you into the upper chest. Who has a higher chance of dying here? I'd like to also note that it does not have to be this complex but I still think being killed by wounds to your limbs has no place in any game that is trying to take itself somewhat seriously. 

Edited September 19, 2015 by Cornholio308

[Yuval 221]

Couldnt be bothered to read everything. But I think it should be a community made addon like ACE for the ArmA series when mod support is released. I myself wouldn't like the bandaging process to be very complex as it will be bad in medium+ ranged gunfights.

Edited September 19, 2015 by StanleyWasHappy

[cornholio308 33]

Couldnt be bothered to read everything. But I think it should be a community made addon like ACE for the ArmA series when mod support is released. I myself wouldn't like the bandaging process to be very complex as it will be bad in medium+ ranged gunfights.

I played ACE on arma 3, it has worse protection and damage system than vanilla arma. ACE or community made addons are not the answer unfortunately. The bandage process need not be complex. Morphine and bandages could work just like they do now. All that needs to be changed is how the player is effected to different types of damage. Medium/long and short range firefights would greatly be improved with this system. In CQC you would have to aim for vital parts of the body to kill the person before he/she hits the ground. In longer and medium range firefights you would have a more true to life engagement with the rare chance a bullet flies and hits someone in the head or chest rendering them dead or dying. Rounds that hit the arms and legs are not as serious and of course shots that hit body armor if done correctly will do nothing. Firefights will be prolonged and more meaningful than just landing shots anywhere on your enemies body and being rewarded a frag. Of course weapon recoil means a lot for this to occur but judging from how the development team are making automatic fire have more dispersion "as it should" I believe they will do fine in that regard. Only body armor and damage dealt to the player need work in my opinion. If this is done right then future games made by bohemia interactive running on the enfusion engine will be greatly more in depth and more sophisticated than the extremely lacking current protection and damage system in place as of today. 

Edited September 19, 2015 by Cornholio308

[hekeetsu 86]

Correct me if I'm wrong but ceramic armor plates are supposed to spread the force and they break in the process? I would imagine that getting shot with a Mosin round while wearing body armor would still lower your health(But no blood loss) and possibly knock you unconscious.

[cornholio308 33]

Correct me if I'm wrong but ceramic armor plates are supposed to spread the force and they break in the process? I would imagine that getting shot with a Mosin round while wearing body armor would still lower your health(But no blood loss) and possibly knock you unconscious.

Ceramic plates were the first bullet resistant plates used back a decade ago, now they are made out of layers of hardened steel and such and are capable of stopping a 7.62x51mm nato round multiple times even armor piercing rounds of that caliber can be stopped by level 4 plates. Google AR500 on youtube. Also the bullets energy would be dispersed on the plate itself and very little energy would make its way through. Soldiers don't even realize they are shot until they check their armor for damage and find little holes in the fabric.

[Luftpancake 94]

Continuing from my previous post about body armor and how it should ideally work " https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/221376-bullet-resistant-protection-actually-giving-bullet-resistant-protection/ ", closer to its more true to life cousin "VBS3". If done correctly it could be another one of those shiny diamonds that brings people like me that love games that are authentic and immersive "being shot with a 9mm with a plate carrier on and being wounded breaks that immersion" back to dayz time and time again. But with that said the damage system in dayz is actually fairly bad. Arma 3 is doing it right in the hitbox department with far more hitboxes that could be coded to do different types of damage varying in severity. However for that achievement the game takes a big steamy crap on it by having a health bar represented by a percentage of health, add that to the fact that body armor just increases that health bar offering no real protection and it just leaves you scratching your head as to why it was designed that way and left like that as if it was a fully functioning part of the game. My only question now is if dayz will correct arma 3's shortcomings again by doing this part of the game right. This is up for debate but in my opinion simply having some contact in medical practice, be it a nurse/doctor/field medic could bring vast knowledge on tap to the developers if they wished to make the damage system more complex. The reason I believe this can be such a huge step up for the enfusion engine is by the actual difference it will make in game, in order to get effective/instantaneous kills you would have to hit vital parts of the body. To simplify things I will just break the body down into some parts and describe the kind of effect damaging those parts of the body would inflict. 

Head

 

Blunt trauma = slightly blurred screen, screen wobbling, sensitivity to light, Being knocked unconscious, fatal. 

Bullet = instantaneous death if bullet enters the neurocranium or hits the spine, the facial skeleton can inflict serious shock damage sending you into unconsciousness but its highly unlikely to cause instantaneous death. 

Sharp object = Heavy blood loss, depending on the size and weight of the blade or piercing weapon it can cause instantaneous death.

Lungs 

 

Bullet = heavily decreased stamina if one lung is penetrated and needs immediate medical attention otherwise both lungs will be effected and in quick fashion loss of consciousness will occur and shortly after death due to lack of oxygen. If both lungs are penetrated then it speeds up the whole process. 

Sharp object = same effect as a bullet. 

Heart

 

Bullet = instantaneous death. 

Sharp object = instantaneous death.

Guts

 

Bullet = heavy blood loss, but no instantaneous death here folks. requires immediate medical attention or consciousness will be lost and death shortly following. 

Spine

 

Bullet = instantaneous death.

Sharp object = if the weapon is heavy and big enough to get through the spines protection then instantaneous death will occur. 

Blunt trauma = like the sharp object if the weapon is heavy or big enough to sever the spine then instantaneous death will occur. 

 

arms

 

Bullet = medium / low blood loss. severity of this wound is not capable of ever inflicting an instantaneous death but if left untreated blood loss will result in loss of consciousness and death. 

Sharp object = low blood loss, though if left untreated unconsciousness followed by death. 

 

Blunt trauma = Capable of breaking bones and low blood loss. Needs medical assistance to fix broken bones and blood loss. 

Legs

 

Bullet = in upper thigh high/medium blood loss, severity of this wound is not capable of ever inflicting an instantaneous death, lower leg and foot medium/low blood loss. Needs medical assistance to stop bleeding or will result in loss of consciousness and death. 

Sharp object = medium/low blood loss, without medical assistance will result in unconsciousness and death. 

 

Blunt trauma = Possibility of broken bones if struck with a heavy or big enough weapon and low blood loss, Needs medical assistance to fix broken bones and blood loss.

 

 

 

 

 

There we have it, and before someone says something this complex cannot be done. Yes, yes it can. The hitboxes will be the first issue, making them as complex as arma 3 or above. Then coding the hitboxes surrounding the body parts to do the damage accordingly. I am sure the coders are more than capable. The resulting effect of something like this. Less instantaneous deaths from wounds that are not capable of inflicting instantaneous death and if the goal is to achieve these types of kills then accuracy is key. No more shooting people in legs being more effective than shooting them in the upper chest. If you shoot someone into the leg and they shoot you into the upper chest. Who has a higher chance of dying here? I'd like to also note that it does not have to be this complex but I still think being killed by wounds to your limbs has no place in any game that is trying to take itself somewhat seriously. 

Oh my god, I love you for this idea.

[cornholio308 33]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/man-survives-after-being-shot-21-times-in-gunfight-20100809-11ukw.html

Actual proof ^^^

[Luftpancake 94]

No! This post is being buried alive! This is such a good idea D:

[cornholio308 33]

No! This post is being buried alive! This is such a good idea D:

Imagine the day a developer responds and says they have actually read and acknowledged a single suggestion post? Tbh maybe they do, they must just lurk around in the shadows. 

Edited September 26, 2015 by Cornholio308

[agouti 105]

 

There we have it, and before someone says something this complex cannot be done. Yes, yes it can. The hitboxes will be the first issue, making them as complex as arma 3 or above. Then coding the hitboxes surrounding the body parts to do the damage accordingly. I am sure the coders are more than capable. The resulting effect of something like this. Less instantaneous deaths from wounds that are not capable of inflicting instantaneous death and if the goal is to achieve these types of kills then accuracy is key. No more shooting people in legs being more effective than shooting them in the upper chest. If you shoot someone into the leg and they shoot you into the upper chest. Who has a higher chance of dying here? I'd like to also note that it does not have to be this complex but I still think being killed by wounds to your limbs has no place in any game that is trying to take itself somewhat seriously. 

 

I present to you: the femoral artery.

Your argument is invalid.

 

No really, your blood pressure will plummet, you'll lose consciousness immediately, and you'll be dead in under a minute. From a leg wound.

 

(I think major blood vessels should be hit boxes in their own right)

 

The ability to stop bleeding needs a major overhaul.

 

"Yeah, well, I took a few .223s, but I wrapped an old rag around my wrist and now I'm good as new."

Edited October 3, 2015 by agouti

[-Gews- 7443]

I present to you: the femoral artery.

Your argument is invalid.

"Less instantaneous deaths from wounds that are not capable of inflicting instantaneous death"

"Needs medical assistance to stop bleeding or will result in loss of consciousness and death."

He's talking about instant kills. No one should be DRT from a bullet in the shins à la AS50. The arms need different behaviour since bullets would very often pass through them into the chest (players are often holding a gun or item in front of their chest, shot from various angles, etc) and complex penetration through body parts doesn't occur in the game (wouldn't happen anywhere near as often with legs). Arms shouldn't be a shield.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Yeah, it should be more difficult to kill a player straight off. I've got no problem with a shot to the chest killing a player eventually - maybe after a minute or something, but most fights in DayZ seem to be over after that initial shot, and that kind of sucks. There's nothing quite as disappointing as "oh cool, he's not friendly, time for a really cool fire fight" CRACK "you are dead" anticlimactic as fuck.

 

Of course it should also be possible to die somewhat rapidly (without medical attention) from a shot to the arm or leg. There are arteries and stuff, and I'm guessing if a bullet split a bone like fire wood, it'd probably sting a bit. Hell, I broke my arm a few years ago and almost passed out a few minutes later. Throw blood loss and immense pain into the mix and you're in trouble.

[agouti 105]

"Less instantaneous deaths from wounds that are not capable of inflicting instantaneous death"

"Needs medical assistance to stop bleeding or will result in loss of consciousness and death."

He's talking about instant kills. No one should be DRT from a bullet in the shins à la AS50. The arms need different behaviour since bullets would very often pass through them into the chest (players are often holding a gun or item in front of their chest, shot from various angles, etc) and complex penetration through body parts doesn't occur in the game (wouldn't happen anywhere near as often with legs). Arms shouldn't be a shield.

 

Near instant loss of consciousness, and death in under a minute isn't considered an instantaneous death? The way I interpreted that was that he was suggesting the wound would ultimately need to be treated, and is a hindrance, but isn't life threatening immediately. A femoral artery shot most definitely would be.

[cornholio308 33]

Yeah thanks for clarifying what I meant agouti, the femoral artery if implemented and damaged would cause rapid blood loss and should only be fixable by some form of proper medical equipment vs just a bandage, maybe a medical sewing kit and tourniquet and bandage is required to heal that kind of wound, the tourniquet is applied first to give you substantially more time to sew the wound and apply the bandage. 

[cornholio308 33]

Yeah, it should be more difficult to kill a player straight off. I've got no problem with a shot to the chest killing a player eventually - maybe after a minute or something, but most fights in DayZ seem to be over after that initial shot, and that kind of sucks. There's nothing quite as disappointing as "oh cool, he's not friendly, time for a really cool fire fight" CRACK "you are dead" anticlimactic as fuck.

 

Of course it should also be possible to die somewhat rapidly (without medical attention) from a shot to the arm or leg. There are arteries and stuff, and I'm guessing if a bullet split a bone like fire wood, it'd probably sting a bit. Hell, I broke my arm a few years ago and almost passed out a few minutes later. Throw blood loss and immense pain into the mix and you're in trouble.

Exactly my issue, the human body can take a hell of a beating sometimes and still operate, in other cases it is quickly shut down, it all depends where you were hit and your reaction to the wound. Killing someone in dayz and getting an instantaneous kill should be rare.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Yeah thanks for clarifying what I meant agouti, the femoral artery if implemented and damaged would cause rapid blood loss and should only be fixable by some form of proper medical equipment vs just a bandage, maybe a medical sewing kit and tourniquet and bandage is required to heal that kind of wound, the tourniquet is applied first to give you substantially more time to sew the wound and apply the bandage. 

 

I like that idea. It's still authentic while still being gamey. A tourniquet could stop, say, 80% of blood loss - no matter how much blood you're losing. That way it would slow down excessive bleeding giving the player time to get away or otherwise find safety in order to have time to use a medical sewing kit to turn the major wound into a minor wound, and then fix the minor wound by applying a bandage. Applying a tourniquet should be a quick process requiring only a few seconds. Using the medical sewing kit should take maybe up to a minute, making it impractical to use while in combat.

 

I'm not sure how broken limbs should work, though. Maybe a splint could fix the broken bone while morphine removes the effects. So maybe a broken bone should cause the player to slowly lose health or blood or whatever, and that health or blood loss should be accelerated when the broken limb is in use (walking with a broken leg, for example). Walking with a broken leg should result in a limp, even if that leg is splinted. Aiming with a broken arm (again, even if splinted) should result in wobbly aim, cries of pain, etc etc. These ffects could lessen on their own over time without morphine. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

^

 

If there is anything in this game that makes me "lose immersion", it is the fact that morphine (a painkiller) somehow fixes broken bones. I would do almost anything for it to be changed.

[d.walker43 196]

Guts

 

Bullet = heavy blood loss, but no instantaneous death here folks. requires immediate medical attention or consciousness will be lost and death shortly following. 

All great ideas except this one. All very accurate, but this one is not. gut shots have very slow blood loss. Immediate medical attention would probably be needed, but not for blood loss. infection would be a much bigger concern here. Other than this one though, the rest were all very accurate and this game needs that. I've made multiple posts about it, only to be shot down by 12 year olds trying to explain to me that its an early access, which to them apparently means everything will come later. Good ideas though, keep up the good work

[MrAerospace 87]

Two very important hitboxes weren't mentioned. The character's hands and feet. Seriously, I couldn't care less if I broke my arm, If I can't stand up, or lose all dexterity to the point where I cannot fire a gun or open a door, I'm very much screwed.