New 3PP Camera

[Baker. 1484]

I also dont like how they restricted the upward radius to which i may shoot, honestly I like to shoot my straight in the air like a crazy person sometimes. 

[gibonez 3633]

They could also do what they did in some of the Dayz mod servers .

 

Disable third person view when crouched or prone.

 

This tiny fix would solve 99 percent of the issues.

[Baker. 1484]

They could also do what they did in some of the Dayz mod servers .

 

Disable third person view when crouched or prone.

 

This tiny fix would solve 99 percent of the issues.

Its only an issue if you think it is, and even though like minded people are a screaming minority, going 1st person doesn't fix the current state of 3rd person.

[KandyCid 30]

I think you're misunderstanding, the camera used to be (should be) centered on where your character is looking.  It's not so much what your character is doing, it's what the camera is doing.  Now it is offset from the character creating a strange disconnect.

 

Look at the reload screenshot to see where the crosshair (focal point of the camera) is.  It's nearly 45 degrees to the character's head.  Or Klesh's fountain screenshot on the previous page.

thats what i mean, your on the crosshair, when you press spacebar it centers up the crosshair, but if your in basic stance walking forward your crosshairs are just facing the way your gun is pointing..Maybe it seems the camera is off set but your just used to the crosshairs being centered when thats not rrealistic<  I can tell your a Republican because you don't believe change is a good thing

[Avant-Garde 229]

• It's still very easy to see over ledges and around corners. I thought the entire point of this change was to eliminate these glaring balance issues?

Well I guess that was never really the devs intention tbh. What other reason does people has to use third person if not peaking corners? People cries a lot about realism and immersion, third person throw both out the window. Why even care about "balancing" peaking if thats exactly why people use third person in the first place?

 

As I see it, devs did it to look more "modern" you know, over-the-shoulder bullshit like resident evil and such (game will go to consoles after all). If they really wanted to fix this there is no other way then "fog of war" thing tbh. But does people who play third person want this? Do they want b0lonce?

I think not, they want peaking. I really can't think of other reasons to use 3rd person if not to create stupid advantages over other people to compensate the hard-as-fuck PVP this game has and the fact that losing your character brings many tears and no one wants that. Remember, in the older builds there was no "3rd person servers" but "Casual" and "hardcore". That tells us a lot about this whole discussion as I see it.

 

By the way, thats not the only advantage that comes with 3rd person. In facehug encounters, if you are in third person its WAY easier to strafe and spam bullets then in first person, melee is also WAY easier since in this game you aim with the swing animation, and in third person you see the whole animation and thus its easier to aim. Really, I see it as "DayZ easy mode", if they balance it (which is obviously not gonna happen because its a natural advantage in many sectors of the game, not only peaking), you might just play first person then.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[KandyCid 30]

Its a sight for shooting moving targets>> When the ready-aim feature or spacebar is active the sights are centered when your aiming directly in front of you but they spread out when you moving to the side. I like like it

[mitor 176]

Yeah, and you should read my comments and note I do not want 3PP to be removed:

 

First Person Camera should be forced in certain situations. It's the only way to solve the obvious and most annoying problem Dayz has. For a game that aims to be realistic third person view just should not be one of its features.

 

I DO like the third person view, and I understand it being in the mod, but it doensn't belong to Dayz. Anyway, we already know they are not going to remove it, so what I would do is simply force first person camera while prone in grass, in interiors, close to walls...

 

If you would have cared to even read the first comment on this page, you would have learned that your endeavours are really nor worth it.

 

Anyway, whether it is worth or not it should be me who decides. It was simply my opinion, I know it won't happen.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Mitor

[BeefBacon 1185]

I've not played for a few weeks but I did use the new 3pp camera in experimental. I don't really have a problem with it, but it doesn't do much to reduce wall peeking - of course it is a first iteration.

 

I'm not sure if it's new but I really, really dislike that I can't look all the way up. It feels quite restrictive.

 

Short of something quite complicated, 3pp is always going to be exploitable. I don't know what exactly the devs have in mind so I'll wait to see what happens, but I'm not expecting anything that will make 3pp less of a peek fest.

Edited August 28, 2015 by BeefBacon

[scriptfactory 620]

I find it hard to believe but the new 3PP camera somehow made both 3PP and 1PP worse. The OTS view makes me feel disoriented when playing for longer play sessions (something I used to only have in 1PP mode even with head bob disabled). Shooting seems inaccurate and interacting with objects is somehow broken. In 1PP mode I can't look all the way up anymore.

Horrible.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

in close quarters this advantage dosent exist because to PEEK as you said you have to be sticking around the corner somewhat, but in the pics above like the wall, tell me when your in a fire fight and your playing hardcore that you want switch to 3rd person, or when your walking along a fence? u never switch to look over? for any reason weather its because sum1 else is using 3rd person or just because its an option?

Sorry, I have to chime in here. In close quarters, this is EXACTLY why people prefer to play 3PP--it's so much easier to figure out where your opponent is, and exactly when to engage him. I don't understand how you figure you have to "be sticking around the wall somewhat" to corner peek in 3PP. That's entirely false.

I don't give a flying fuck what mode people play; let the lesser players engage in their ridiculous, over-the-shoulder PvP. However, when these same players defend 3PP's current state of "[im]balance", I have to add my two pennies.

IT'S NOT BALANCED. IT'S NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE.

In my short and sweet three hour DayZ session on a random 3PP server yesterday (which is the basis for my commentary in this thread), I geared up and headed to Veresnik. I looted the area, and decided to hang around for a bit to see if anything developed while I was there.

I situated myself in the newly enterable (yay for new words!) guard shack and waited. After maybe five minutes, I heard several sets of footsteps outside of the fence. "Awesome," I thought. As would be expected, the blue gate creaked open followed swiftly by the door to the guard house.

I COULD SEE EXACTLY WHERE THIS GUY WAS, AND PICKED THE PERFECT TIME TO LAY WASTE TOO HIM WITH MY MP-133.

He literally had zero chance. His friend waited for a good ten minutes before trying his luck. BOOM. Same fate. I looted their corpses and moved on.

Now, had that been on a 1PP server, I would've had to have worked a lot harder and taken more risks for that situation to have ended in the same way. I would've had to have physically exposed myself to attain information pertaining to their location and risk being picked off in so doing. Not the case thanks to MY COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROL OF THE SITUATION DUE TO MY MAGICAL ABILITY TO SEE AROUND CORNERS UN-FUCKING-SOLICITED.

Cheers!

EDIT: three cheers for Android's auto-correct

Edited August 28, 2015 by Grimey Rick

[Bororm 1156]

Sorry, I have to chime in here. In close quarters, this is EXACTLY why people prefer to play 3PP--it's so much easier to figure out where your opponent is, and exactly when to engage him. I don't understand how you figure you have to "be sticking around the wall somewhat" to corner peek in 3PP. That's entirely false.

I don't give a flying fuck what mode people play; let the lesser players engage in their ridiculous, over-the-shoulder PvP. However, when these same players defend 3PP's current state of "[im]balance", I have to add my two pennies.

IT'S NOT BALANCED. IT'S NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE.

In my short and sweet three hour DayZ session on a random 3PP server yesterday (which is the basis for my commentary in this thread), I geared up and headed to Veresnik. I looted the area, and decided to hang around for a bit to see if anything developed while I was there.

I situated myself in the newly enterable (yay for new words!) guard shack and waited. After maybe five minutes, I heard several sets of footsteps outside of the fence. "Awesome," I thought. As would be expected, the blue gate creaked open followed swiftly by the door to the guard house.

I COULD SEE EXACTLY WHERE THIS GUY WAS, AND PICKED THE PERFECT TIME TO LAY WASTE TOO HIM WITH MY MP-133.

He literally had zero chance. His friend waited for a good ten minutes before trying his luck. BOOM. Same fate. I looted their corpses and moved on.

Now, had that been on a 1PP server, I would've had to have worked a lot harder and taken more risks for that situation to have ended in the same way. I would've had to have physically exposed myself to attain information pertaining to their location and risk being picked off in so doing. Not the case thanks to MY COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROL OF THE SITUATION DUE TO MY MAGICAL ABILITY TO SEE AROUND CORNERS UN-FUCKING-SOLICITED.

Cheers!

EDIT: three cheers for Android's auto-correct

 

He had a chance, he could have peeked the windows before entering.

[Sula 1205]

Keep it on topic and civil, everyone. That way we can carry on the discussion.

[The-MCV- 149]

I just wish it had same angles and whatnot and just a line of sight. What your character sees (players, items, zombies, animals, traps) is updated to whatever angle you're viewing from in 3PP. World map visible from anywhere.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

Sorry, I have to chime in here. In close quarters, this is EXACTLY why people prefer to play 3PP--it's so much easier to figure out where your opponent is, and exactly when to engage him. I don't understand how you figure you have to "be sticking around the wall somewhat" to corner peek in 3PP. That's entirely false.

I don't give a flying fuck what mode people play; let the lesser players engage in their ridiculous, over-the-shoulder PvP. However, when these same players defend 3PP's current state of "[im]balance", I have to add my two pennies.

IT'S NOT BALANCED. IT'S NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE.

In my short and sweet three hour DayZ session on a random 3PP server yesterday (which is the basis for my commentary in this thread), I geared up and headed to Veresnik. I looted the area, and decided to hang around for a bit to see if anything developed while I was there.

I situated myself in the newly enterable (yay for new words!) guard shack and waited. After maybe five minutes, I heard several sets of footsteps outside of the fence. "Awesome," I thought. As would be expected, the blue gate creaked open followed swiftly by the door to the guard house.

I COULD SEE EXACTLY WHERE THIS GUY WAS, AND PICKED THE PERFECT TIME TO LAY WASTE TOO HIM WITH MY MP-133.

He literally had zero chance. His friend waited for a good ten minutes before trying his luck. BOOM. Same fate. I looted their corpses and moved on.

Now, had that been on a 1PP server, I would've had to have worked a lot harder and taken more risks for that situation to have ended in the same way. I would've had to have physically exposed myself to attain information pertaining to their location and risk being picked off in so doing. Not the case thanks to MY COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROL OF THE SITUATION DUE TO MY MAGICAL ABILITY TO SEE AROUND CORNERS UN-FUCKING-SOLICITED.

Cheers!

EDIT: three cheers for Android's auto-correct

You've got it all figured out man. If 3pp didn't affect 1pp, then I would have nothing against. What makes me grumpy is that 3pp drains the 1pp servers and keeps most of the 1pp low pop, because people want to play easy/cheat mode.

[pilgrim* 3514]

[Note: The new 3pp camera experiment is not intended to be made more and more like the 1pp camera. until they are the same. We had that argument, it's finished. No one wants to end up with 2 cameras that are exactly the same. We want two DIFFERENT cameras, that 'different" has to mean means different view, so different use, so different gameplay]

 

For me, it's really very interesting to get away from the exact-middle-of-the-screen syndrome

This first iteration looks good to me - and naturally needs time and effort and adjustment before its perfected

 

I've worked with games studios - the camera position is always a pain in the neck. That's why it's easiest, and least creative, safest, quickest, cheapest - to use the standard plug in solution for camera position. But even then, each game needs work and testing to have a fully playable camera-follow, even when the designers are staying safe.

 

So - this off-center camera looks really interesting, as a creative concept, It's a new direction in this kind of game, it's experimental right now but it's good. Personally I think it's great to leave behind the "stare at the exact midpoint of the screen" that is standard in every other game.

And BI didn't even have to bother getting involved in this new work, but they decided to try for it.

So - Great effort BI and let's see how it develops.

 

Maybe gamers will actually start moving their eyes while they play?

 

xx

Edited August 28, 2015 by pilgrim

[boneboys 7988]

Here we go again...

Topic is 3pp view, this build (0.58), not 1st vs 3rd view, not go play 1st person servers or such.

 

Report any off-topic posts.

 

Cleaned.

I really dislike repeating myself.

Topic cleaned.

*****************************

For those that wish to debate the limited and legitimate looking up issue, we have a Topic for that...

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/227819-why-is-the-amount-i-can-look-up-limited/

[pilgrim* 3514]

 its time to ignore what people want

                  ..//..

- nice -

 

TECHNICAL:

(in case anybody wants to know - might give ya some ideas?) - its just boring because this is how it really works, sorry people.

 

Whatever place the camera is, it always points at the middle of the screen

 

- that's what a camera is, a software system to show stuff to the player, and it is nothing else - that's why it's called the camera, whatever it looks at IS in the middle of the screen by definition. It is an imaginary dot located anywhere in the play volume with a vector (an arrow) to show which way it's "looking" - ya software can move it around and aim it using any method the programmers can think up.

 

So the middle screen point will always change from view to view because the camera position has changed viewpoint  (except if its circling/moving around always pointing at one object, then that object will stay mid-screen ok?).  So in reality there are not 2 "different" cameras, there is only ONE camera. But let's use that jargon here*:

 

1pp camera is the easiest to program.

It's standard, it's really old stuff, it's easy to write, so lots of games use it.

 

A good 3pp camera is more difficult to write.

For instance if I have a "follow camera" 10 feet behind me, and I stand with my back to a tree, then the camera will only show the tree, I can't see myself because its on the wrong side of the tree from me (that's 100% not useful for the player). If I'm in a small space (say in a house) I don't want the camera to stay 10 feet behind me because it will be outside the house. If I want to lie down and look up at the underside of a table, the camera has to be in front of my location and pointing upwards, if not I just see the floor, or I see the top side of the table as if I'm standing up. So a follow camera has to deal with all objects between camera POV and the player. It has to move it's position to relate to the players expectations, even sometimes if the player does not move (eg the camera has to "know" it's in a house when you log in) it has to relate in a dynamic and efficient manner. Every game has ways of dealing with this in the software. Every game has two or more problems but in a good well-tested game you only find them if you search for them. (but if you look/test for them, you SHALL discover them, heh)

 

Games where camera positions cause the player difficulty, generally don't get a big market, but you can find them around.

 

There are many possibilities for automatic movement of the camera, it zooms in and out, or changes its angle or height depending on player actions and local objects, it can move out in front, or lag behind, all automatically. Also in some games you can take control of the camera yourself, eg from the keyboard.

 

IMO.. the main point in DayZ is to have a good relation between the camera view and the aiming point (the "action point") - and it has to be a relation players can easily understand.

 

***

 

*Note:

One algorithm for moving the camera is called "1pp" in standard jargon, another algorithm is called "3pp". In all games these POVs have the same basis, but they look different to the player (of course). Having the camera in front of the player is called (bog-standard) "1pp," but there is no reason the camera can not move from side to side in front of the player, or move around him looking outwards, or look down his gun barrel, or fly around in tiny circles .. whatever. Its always still the same camera, call it 1pp or Zpp as you like. It could auto-move from in front to behind smoothly, for instance. It could move in sync with the avatar's eyeballs so the player felt like he had control of his eyeball movement. but generally it's fixed to his head control, because that's the easiest thing to do - it's not realistic but its standard, it hasn't changed since 1980, it's easy on software writing time, and it works OK. So lots of games use it, some don't get farther than that.

 

The 3pp is more difficult to write if you don't want to do the standard thing. Therefore - I like what these guys are trying to do.

 

I swear, with their game cameras already working, 99% of game companies would just sit back and "ignore" the whole thing.

Edited August 30, 2015 by pilgrim

[pilgrim* 3514]

this is a sketch idea for software fans or modders, you'll get the point:

create a new class called <camera roof>

it has no effect on any game elements, so its invisible (no effect on ray tracing), bullets don't see it, no other play class interacts with it at all - it only affects the camera position - For camera movement it is treated as an in-game object.

got it ? <camera roof> is not taken into account by any other function except "camera movement".
In the camera movement function ONLY, you can convert it to any "roof" object you like, so camera movement considers it opaque, and will move down to keep the player in sight.

1 ) put a <camera roof> a few feet wide along the top of all the ground walls that players could peek over - so as they come close to the wall, the camera treats the invisible "camera roof" as a normal roof, and moves down to stay under it, result = your player can't peek higher than the wall.

2 ) for rooftop peeking - You could define that when a player is lying down he cannot look down more than a few degrees below horizontal. To look down he has to squat or stand up.

But even then, maybe you could stand or squat back from the edge of the roof, out of line-of-sight, and peek to some extent - so if #2 doesn't reduce rooftop peeking enough, put a <camera roof> above the whole top of the building except a few feet from the edge, at above head height, to bring the camera down under it, so that the player can not look downwards more than might be realistic.

This leaves the third case = corner peeking - I don't have an answer to corner peeking ATM tonight .. Maybe someone else does?

 class <camera roof> right ?

[now that's all done -  & I'm leaving this thread I already wrote 2 pages in here, see ya]

- but gimme a beep if anyone HEARD what I just said.. xxx

 

[note - The #2 "lying flat" idea means someone looking down from another feature (a cliff edge or an upper staircase landing, even a steep hill?) would have to squat or stand in order to look down or shoot down, and they could also still stand-peek or squat-peek downwards from out of line-of-sight, but maybe that would be acceptable, not too critical  (better than at the moment). So <camera roof> is a better all-case solution, and you can completely auto generate it from existing objects because you know which you want, what they are, how high they are, so it's no mapping problem at all.]

Edited August 31, 2015 by pilgrim