New 3PP Camera

[Bororm 1156]

Spent the whole day peeking over shit just the same as always, while being slightly annoyed by the new camera.  Such a pointless change and waste of time.  The new crosshair in third person is totally ridiculous as well.  They should just remove that entirely.

 

My gripes about the new camera (aside from how it's a pointless change to begin with; because third person by definition means you see more than the character) are:

1) It's way too tight indoors.  I often switch to first person indoors any ways, but this just feels ridiculous.  If they want you to be first person indoors, force it at this point.

2) The way the camera fluctuates so much.  It comes in closer and further for numerous reasons now, and seems to always be shifting just from looking around.  Looking straight down for instance pulls it in super close, going indoors again shifts it, going near things etc.  Even sprinting brings it in/out.  It just makes you extremely aware that the camera is even there.  

3) Character being off centered.  Don't care for it.

4) Shifting shoulders.  Now you have to tap q/e twice to lean and it just feels a bit funky.  Especially since your gun doesn't change shoulders.

 

 

I ended up spending a decent amount of my session using the double tapped "-" to extend my FOV to basically bring it in line with how it used to be (which I hate doing because it stretches/distorts things).  Hip firing weapons felt really wonky with the off centered character and funky crosshair.  I don't even like hip firing and it's something I think needs to change because it's too easy/common place, but this is not the way to fix that (no crosshair and harsher recoil when not aiming down sights would be good).  This just feels weird/bad.

 

This wasn't necessary.  Third person was fine.  People will adapt to the new camera (I already have) and it is just a minor annoyance with no actual gain.  It's fundamentally flawed to try to "fix" something that isn't broken.  The people who disliked the old camera are still going to find reasons to complain, the people who adapted to the old camera to begin with are going to adapt to the new one faster.  The whiners are still going to say it's the camera's fault when it's their own.

 

/yawnnnnn

 

 

And now please tell me how it should be even closer in, until the back of my character's head is my entire screen.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Bororm

[Bororm 1156]

Here's some screenshots to demonstrate the wonkiness with the new camera.

 

Reloading with this perspective ends up having your character essentially facing sideways into your camera:

To clarify, I'm looking straight ahead, I haven't turned my camera/character.  This is just the angle your camera ends up at as you reload.  Besides just looking weird, it's got some interesting implications for actual fighting if you end up essentially facing sideways to what you were just looking at.

 

Here's the third person crosshairs I mentioned:

 

Your weapon's crosshair is obviously free floating from the center as it should be, however due to the offset camera it ends up being no where near the center any more which just feels bad.  In this screenshot it's still fairly close, but I've had it drift extremely far to either side.  Basically, the camera has been offset, but the character's point of aim wasn't adjusted to match.

[Cr4cksh0t 6]

i thnk its awesome. u can stance left or right sight while moving. 

makes it very arcade like when you use it correctly while running through cherno

[ZomboWTF 527]

they sure should have limited the camera more when prone and crouched, the changes while standing are nice, but you can still peek over stuff and peeking to the side has not changed at all, except that you can now peek around right corners easier  :rolleyes:

 

they tried, and of course it didn't fiy all issues with 3rd person peeking (which is impossible to fix anyway), but ultimately this at least makes peeking above high concrete walls harder (the ones at the airfield)

[boneboys 7988]

Here we go again...

Topic is 3pp view, this build (0.58), not 1st vs 3rd view, not go play 1st person servers or such.

 

Report any off-topic posts.

 

Cleaned.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

(which is impossible to fix anyway)

 

Yeah, that's not true. There are many ways to fix this, but they involve an astronomical amount of work and bringing the camera in much closer to the player, something that the majority are definitely not going to like.

 

While I agree with the OP that the new camera solves nothing, I don't agree that it wasn't a problem in the first place. Even 3PP vs 3PP was about watching drone footage.

[ZomboWTF 527]

Yeah, that's not true. There are many ways to fix this, but they involve an astronomical amount of work and bringing the camera in much closer to the player, something that the majority are definitely not going to like.

 

While I agree with the OP that the new camera solves nothing, I don't agree that it wasn't a problem in the first place. Even 3PP vs 3PP was about watching drone footage.

well, peeking over the top is pretty easy to fix, just like the devs did with the new 3rd person camera, they would only have to adjust the max camera height values for crouching and prone freelook, or even force first person for prone stance

 

the real problem that is basically unfixable (without checking constantly if a player has direct LoS to another player) is peeking sideways around corners, since you never know if a player is just looking around in the open or near a tree or corner to peek around

 

the only solution to side-peeking while keeping 3rd person would be to only render players that have a direct line of sight to your characters head, however this would put some strain on the PC or server, depending on where it is calculated, and would be very vulnerable for bugs and people starting to complain getting killed by invisible people, plus people picking the game up and peeking would be seriously confused as to "how that guy just rounded the corner i peeked just popped out of thin air and shot me"

[Coheed_IV 381]

Your right it hasn't fixed much. But, calling this "the new 3pp camera" is not true. This is the steps in iterations, it will keep changing.

[klesh 2423]

I'm not a big fan of the offset camera.  It causes weirdness like this, which looks really bad when watching someone else.

 

You used to have to point yourself at the pump, the offset camera makes you have to point your crosshairs at it.

 

Edited August 27, 2015 by klesh

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

the only solution to side-peeking while keeping 3rd person would be to only render players that have a direct line of sight to your characters head

 

That is a popularly cited solution sure. However, I believe it isn't the only one. The camera needs to be configured for context which involves a massive amount of work to configure the camera to recognize and respond appropriately to every individual situation. For example, the camera could be configured to pull in closer when you try to peek a corner, thereby literally not allowing you to see around corners at all unless you lean. This would require the camera to be programmed to understand the environment and I doubt they will put that much effort into it.

[ZomboWTF 527]

That is a popularly cited solution sure. However, I believe it isn't the only one. The camera needs to be configured for context which involves a massive amount of work to configure the camera to recognize and respond appropriately to every individual situation. For example, the camera could be configured to pull in closer when you try to peek a corner, thereby literally not allowing you to see around corners at all unless you lean. This would require the camera to be programmed to understand the environment and I doubt they will put that much effort into it.

 

interesting approach, but that would result in erratic sudden camera movement when running through a city i guess, or even a forrest (every tree can be considered two corners)

you'd have to make the system rcognize when you are peeking a corner regardless of range from the corner, since you can 3rd person peek a corner to the side even when standing 20 meters behind it

running through a forrest, looking left and right would then result in the camera preventing you from looking around every tree you move past, which would make the camera going closer and further away from your char in unpredictable fashion

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't see much point to these camera changes. The people that want the camera in their character's head will be on 1st person servers. So what's the goal? I've seen people suggest they merge the 1st and 3rd person hives... um, no thanks.

 

Messing with this is a waste of time. They're trying to "fix" something that's inherently "broken"... and which is already solved.

 

 

That is a popularly cited solution sure. However, I believe it isn't the only one. The camera needs to be configured for context which involves a massive amount of work to configure the camera to recognize and respond appropriately to every individual situation. For example, the camera could be configured to pull in closer when you try to peek a corner, thereby literally not allowing you to see around corners at all unless you lean. This would require the camera to be programmed to understand the environment and I doubt they will put that much effort into it.

 

Raycasting from the player's eyes is the only solution that can put 1st and 3rd person perspective on equal footing and people don't want that. The camera is always going to be higher and farther back. Even lying in an open grass field with no walls or corners, watching over the top of a hill, there will always be advantages to swapping back and forth between 1st and 3rd in countless situations.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

*crawls out from underneath his 1PP rock*

 

What, they changed the 3PP camera and it's causing anarchy on the forums with the lesser players?

 

 

*crawls back underneath his 1PP rock*

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

interesting approach, but that would result in erratic sudden camera movement when running through a city i guess, or even a forrest (every tree can be considered two corners)

you'd have to make the system rcognize when you are peeking a corner regardless of range from the corner, since you can 3rd person peek a corner to the side even when standing 20 meters behind it

running through a forrest, looking left and right would then result in the camera preventing you from looking around every tree you move past, which would make the camera going closer and further away from your char in unpredictable fashion

 

Yeah, I see what you mean. My idea has some problems, but it could be worked out. If the camera was much closer to the player model, the contextual angle changes wouldn't be as dramatic either. My point is that the camera hasn't been anywhere near as problematic in other games as it is in this one. Maybe you are right that some situations are impossible to fix. However, there are plenty that could be programmed in the way that I describe, like laying prone on the roof of a building. 

[gibonez 3633]

 

 

Raycasting from the player's eyes is the only solution that can put 1st and 3rd person perspective on equal footing and people don't want that. The camera is always going to be higher and farther back. Even lying in an open grass field with no walls or corners, watching over the top of a hill, there will always be advantages to swapping back and forth between 1st and 3rd in countless situations.

 

Then its time to ignore what people want or not want.

 

force it and test it and see how it positively or negatively affects gameplay.

[-Gews- 7443]

Then its time to ignore what people want or not want.

 

force it and test it and see how it positively or negatively affects gameplay.

 

 

[Baker. 1484]

 

Then its time to ignore what people want or not want.

 

force it and test it and see how it positively or negatively affects gameplay.

 

That doesn't seem like something that improves the 3pp camera.

 

I think the new camera will be great once its a little more organic, it does feel slightly clunky now but its the first iteration. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by B@ker

[Coheed_IV 381]

That is a popularly cited solution sure. However, I believe it isn't the only one. The camera needs to be configured for context which involves a massive amount of work to configure the camera to recognize and respond appropriately to every individual situation. For example, the camera could be configured to pull in closer when you try to peek a corner, thereby literally not allowing you to see around corners at all unless you lean. This would require the camera to be programmed to understand the environment and I doubt they will put that much effort into it.

Line of sight or fog of war type system will never happen and shouldn't. Can you imagine how buggy it would look when working properly? Playing with friends moving through trees. Not a option.

 

I don't think its so hopeless though. I think they'll make it better, but never perfect.

 

Some ways I think they'll improve.

 

1. camera distance will change with stance: so laying prone on the police station will not work the same.

2. The camera will pivot differently, it will point down more as it raises: so when standing behind fence you cant see the huge distance that you can now.

3. the offset camera will only be while holding weapon (which they already said will happen): you will trade awareness for protection, and will make it easier to nerf camera without pissing everyone off

 

Seems like with many features, they're not doing much design yet, just implementing tech

Edited August 27, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[mitor 176]

First Person Camera should be forced in certain situations. It's the only way to solve the obvious and most annoying problem Dayz has. For a game that aims to be realistic third person view just should not be one of its features.

 

I DO like the third person view, and I understand it being in the mod, but it doensn't belong to Dayz. Anyway, we already know they are not going to remove it, so what I would do is simply force first person camera while prone in grass, in interiors, close to walls...

[kichilron 8550]

First Person Camera should be forced in certain situations. It's the only way to solve the obvious and most annoying problem Dayz has. For a game that aims to be realistic third person view just should not be one of its features.

 

I DO like the third person view, and I understand it being in the mod, but it doensn't belong to Dayz. Anyway, we already know they are not going to remove it, so what I would do is simply force first person camera while prone in grass, in interiors, close to walls...

 

Did you read any of the above posts?

[mitor 176]

Did you read any of the above posts?

 

Ahm... First, second, third and Boneboys'.

 

I know I mentioned First Persond Camera but only to say I prefer them to force you to first person instead of what we have now, which is (in my opinion) a weird solution.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Mitor

[Bororm 1156]

I'm not a big fan of the offset camera.  It causes weirdness like this, which looks really bad when watching someone else.

 

You used to have to point yourself at the pump, the offset camera makes you have to point your crosshairs at it.

 

 

Yeah this.  Like the screenshot I posted of the reload, or even aiming in third person.  Basically you are now pointing your camera at things instead of your character, because they offset the camera but the character doesn't match.  So what your camera is focused on is no longer what your character is focused on.  I think this is one of my main gripes, as it ends up with a big disconnected feeling from the character.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Not sure why they're even bothering to be honest. 3rd person is inherently broken and impossible to fix. This "new" camera changes nothing and for some reason gives me motion sickness, which I don't get even in first person.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

This thread piqued my interest, and I just finished a three hour DayZ session on a Public 3PP server. I don't normally play 3PP, so I wasn't aware that they were changing the camera. After using it for a few hours, here are my thoughts:

• It's really difficult to successfully navigate indoors in 3PP.
• After a few skirmishes with other players that normally would've been very straight forward, I quickly became confused by the constant switching of camera angles—however, that's just an issue pertaining to the learning curve of change.
• I experienced numerous wonky camera glitches when trying to interact with items on the floor/ground and on ledges/furniture—I had to use 1PP in these situations.
• It's still very easy to see over ledges and around corners. I thought the entire point of this change was to eliminate these glaring balance issues?
• I noticed that I could only look up somewhere in the neighborhood of 70º—why aren't I able to look a full 90º anymore? (Excuse my ignorance, I haven't played DayZ in a while...)

All in all, I personally don't see the point in the changes made to the camera; I've always been against 3PP in the Standalone, but to be honest, I preferred it the way it was. If development wants to change the camera, that's fine, but shouldn't they have a goal in so doing? If their goal was balancing the game by eliminating corner/ledge peeking, they blundered immensely. I can't think of any other reason to change the camera angles. Adding to that, the new retic[u]le looks ridiculous—why do we even have one in 3PP view?

[kichilron 8550]

Ahm... First, second, third and Boneboys'.

 

I know I mentioned First Persond Camera but only to say I prefer them to force you to first person instead of what we have now, which is (in my opinion) a weird solution.

 

If you would have cared to even read the first comment on this page, you would have learned that your endeavours are really nor worth it.