base building concerns

[gannon46 788]

I know hicks is gonna talk Saturday about this topic so i wanted to hear others point of view on the subject.

I for one am very nervous about it after playing H1 and seeing the appalling number of bases littering the map, makes me sick it looks like shit.

now i know that a different game(made by the devil) and this game i usally can say know how we players are they know we are d-bags they know we will exploit any opportunity to break the game not all of us just in general, SO i know they'll take into account different uses and possibilities. I hope its minimal like barricading windows,and basic camps like tents fires barrels and storage containers we have lockpicks so we can lock doors too. like i said i want the map to sat beautiful i don't want shit shacks polluting every damn POI and every town have every door barricaded impossible to get into because billy is a fuckhead with to much time and no skill. And if they the players are allowed full control meaning build anywhere barricade anything then it also needs to be in at day one the ability to destroy player made structures. well thats my concerns and delusions i'm sure all my fears will be quenched when hicks does his talk but i just still wanted to voice my concerns and see if anyone else felt the same or had concerns as well. 

[HeXedMinD (DayZ) 39]

I agree, i hope it does not allow people to build entire structures and towers like we had in Epoch.

[Arthur Dubrovka 376]

Hope so too. It looks so ugly these half builded structures called bases. If its possible to build up structures they have to fit into the style of the game. Maybe a little shack or deerstands, but not 10 in a row... I dont know how they will handle it but I think its the best way that you only can barricade houses. For shure it would be nice to build a nice little camp in the woods with a shack and a few deerstands, barrels and sandbags. But gannon said it, those structures would be exploited in so many ways.

 

We just have to wait and see what hicks has to say me think

[xalienax 621]

I actually want and welcome full free standing player built structures, but i want them to have more limitations and much more time/resource intensive then epoch. they should also have a system in place similar to ARK's where all structures must be 'supported' and destroying supports destroys anything that was reliant on that part of the building to 'hold it up'. no more 1x1 skyscrapers with a massive fortress sitting on top of it. Building palisade walls, basic 'bunkers' etc should all be possible. as should the means of destruction- but the time and effort (or required tool) to destroy should be realistic. breaking down piece of a wall that is essentially tree trunks sunk into the ground should take quite some time if the best you have is an axe (similar to the time it'd take to chop thru in real life for the average joe)

 

This would also add value to more situational and rare items like improvised explosives, the chainsaw, etc beyond 'lulz items' for the costal deathmatch.

[xalienax 621]

Hope so too. It looks so ugly these half builded structures called bases. If its possible to build up structures they have to fit into the style of the game. Maybe a little shack or deerstands, but not 10 in a row... I dont know how they will handle it but I think its the best way that you only can barricade houses. For shure it would be nice to build a nice little camp in the woods with a shack and a few deerstands, barrels and sandbags. But gannon said it, those structures would be exploited in so many ways.

 

We just have to wait and see what hicks has to say me think

exploited how? as long as player built structures dont spawn loot i don't see how they can be 'exploited'. even getting to the top of previously inacessible rooftops i wouldn't call an exploit. you choosing to comit a considerable amount of resource to a construction that can then be destroyed in your absence possible leaving you stranded up there. I just really hope they go realistic instead og game balance with it. you should be able to ladder over walls etc. none of this stupid you cant do that because sombody else has a building within x-meters.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I have no issues with players building their own bases from boards and such, it just has to make "sense", both with the materials needed, and in the time it takes. No "6 boards for an insta-placed wall".

 

A 10 foot wall, double-sided (for insulation), would probably take me an hour and 40-50 boards. A shack, made from 4 of these walls, with a hole cut (and supported) for an entryway, would probably take at least 5 hours. Not including actually getting the materials and hauling them to the build site.

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

As Whyherro123 said, I'm okay with (Not too fond of, but okay) player built bases, but it can't take 5 seconds using 1/10 of the actual materials you'd need. You should have to be dedicated to your base if you're going to build one from scratch, no more coastal fortresses. No new spawn shacks littering the waterside every 5 feet like in Ark. You should need the tools, you should need the actual amount of materials, you should need what you actually would need to build that same shack in reality.

[Arthur Dubrovka 376]

exploited how? as long as player built structures dont spawn loot i don't see how they can be 'exploited'. even getting to the top of previously inacessible rooftops i wouldn't call an exploit. you choosing to comit a considerable amount of resource to a construction that can then be destroyed in your absence possible leaving you stranded up there. I just really hope they go realistic instead og game balance with it. you should be able to ladder over walls etc. none of this stupid you cant do that because sombody else has a building within x-meters.

ok exploit is maybe the wrong word. I dont wanna see playerbuilded sandbagnests in cherno for sniping down new spawns. Or shacks in the middle of the street between  elektro and cherno to block vehicles. Stuff like this I hope wouldnt be possible because if there are clans with 5 people or more they will get the resources for those trollin actions and if its possible somebody will do it.

 

edit: If the devs find a way to balance this I would be very happy building my own base from the scratch in the woods

Edited August 7, 2015 by imun

[Coheed_IV 381]

I'm more interested in what this base will do for me. I mean building a base is like putting up a sign "here I am". So what can a base do that the thousands of buildings can't do?

 

Someone explain what a H1z1 shack does, why are they everywhere?

[cash81 506]

I'm more interested in what this base will do for me. I mean building a base is like putting up a sign "here I am". So what can a base do that the thousands of buildings can't do?

 

Someone explain what a H1z1 shack does, why are they everywhere?

They allow you to store things without getting looted. They have a passcode to get in to avoid theft.

I hope the structures are realistic dynamically. A shotgun slug or 7.62x54 round will make short work of most structures made of wood or cinderblocks. So if someone decided to make a sniper tower, it should be able to be cut down with only a few rounds to one of the legs.

Besides shooting cyclists, i think base destruction will be a new hobby of many.

Long live the nomads! :)

[Sperglord 76]

All bases should be destroyable/accessable by strangers, there should be little security stuff like locks or maybe walls but the main and biggest "security system" would be hiding it in a place where other people wont find it. We need to expand the map for that because on public hives you go to a server thats always empty and put a base there, and no one will ever find it as no one plays there so you just use that server to go to your base and go to another server to shoot. But on private hives there will be tons of bases everywhere, those who want to play on a private hive need a bigger map.

 

 

Chest that have a lock could broken into with a fireaxe or a gunshot to the lock. (as ammo would become very rare, a person who only has 5 bullets and that's considered alot, would think twice before shooting a chest which could probably be empty or have trash in it)

Safes wouldnt be accessable unless you know the combination or maybe blow it up with TNT and it would obviously seriously damage whats inside

Edited August 7, 2015 by Sperglord

[Coheed_IV 381]

Besides shooting cyclists, i think base destruction will be a new hobby of many.

Easy! Let's please not start that again! :huh:

[cash81 506]

Easy! Let's please not start that again! :huh:

You're right. I forgot to put "computer generated video game cyclists and bases". Maybe we could build bike racks on the sides of the bases for all the cyclists to have some place to lock up their bikes! Fabulous ;)

[Parazight 1599]

So we have a genuine problem.  Too many bases and too many cyclists.

[Just Caused 423]

You're right. I forgot to put "computer generated video game cyclists and bases". Maybe we could build bike racks on the sides of the bases for all the cyclists to have some place to lock up their bikes! Fabulous ;)

As recreational cyclist and bicycle lover in real life, I must say that I will have atleast 5 mountain bikes in base :)

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

If you allow freestanding structures, you get shenanigans - roadblocks might be an interesting tactic from time to time, but there will be much trolling.

 

If you allow some structures to be fortified, people will learn their locations and assault them 24/7.

 

Honestly, fortifying existing structures is the only thing that seems to make sense, and even that will almost certainly make walking anywhere near a city an impossible feat - the FPS lag would just be too unbearable.

 

I'm interested to know if they've got any better ideas or solutions.

[Bororm 1156]

ok exploit is maybe the wrong word. I dont wanna see playerbuilded sandbagnests in cherno for sniping down new spawns. Or shacks in the middle of the street between  elektro and cherno to block vehicles. Stuff like this I hope wouldnt be possible because if there are clans with 5 people or more they will get the resources for those trollin actions and if its possible somebody will do it.

 

edit: If the devs find a way to balance this I would be very happy building my own base from the scratch in the woods

 

These are the things I want to see.  If you don't like them, then destroy them.  Building blockades and sniper nests and stuff sounds awesome.

 

Creativity shouldn't be limited just because some people are going to use it for "bad."  That's what a sandbox is about, giving players freedom.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Bororm

[sachad 1016]

These are the things I want to see.  If you don't like them, then destroy them.  Building blockades and sniper nests and stuff sounds awesome.

 

Creativity shouldn't be limited just because some people are going to use it for "bad."  That's what a sandbox is about, giving players freedom.

 

That's the problem with some of today's gamers. Give them freedom, and they will give you a shitstorm of trolling. Give them freeform basebuilding, and before long Chernarus will be dotted with dick fortresses and giant middle fingers. Compare it to Besiege, which also has a fairly freeform building model. Some people build intricate, beautiful and functioning machines. Some people build rickety giants that literally fuck castles to rubble with giant mechanical cocks. 

 

I understand that DayZ is supposed to be a serious survival horror game. I'm all for giving people the ability to set up a fortified position, but let's not give them too much freedom either. Existing buildings coupled with player-made simple structures, walls, fences, traps, barricades, etc... all these things put together can make for a solid base that looks like it was built by actual apocalypse survivors, rather than grotesque constructs made by immatured turds with too much free time and no consideration for the rest of us.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Sacha

[Bororm 1156]

That's the problem with some of today's gamers. Give them freedom, and they will give you a shitstorm of trolling. Give them freeform basebuilding, and before long Chernarus will be dotted with dick fortresses and giant middle fingers. Compare it to Besiege, which also has a fairly freeform building model. Some people build intricate, beautiful and functioning machines. Some people build rickety giants that literally fuck castles to rubble with giant mechanical cocks. 

 

I understand that DayZ is supposed to be a serious survival horror game. I'm all for giving people the ability to set up a fortified position, but let's not give them too much freedom either. Existing buildings coupled with player-made simple structures, walls, fences, traps, barricades, etc... all these things put together can make for a solid base that looks like it was built by actual apocalypse survivors, rather than grotesque constructs made by immatured turds with too much free time and no consideration for the rest of us.

 

I think the solution is just finding the right balance.  If it takes a lot of effort then you deter people from griefing/trolling.  I think that's a better route than what most games take any more where they just say "nope, you just can't build here or do this."

 

I think players don't like to take responsibility for themselves and want mechanics to do everything for them.  Instead of dealing with a roadblock, they'd rather the game just doesn't allow them to exist in the first place.  The example of sniper nests in Cherno is perfect.  The guy doesn't want some one sniping fresh spawns (or more accurately: HIM as a fresh spawn) from a fortified position, but it ignores the flip side of the coin where he'd be perfectly capable of setting up the same sort of fortification to counter snipe those types of players.

 

People get too hung up about what other players are doing with their freedom so they want to take it away.  If some one is griefing/trolling you, then deal with it.

 

 

Just to be clear, I want "realistic" building.  Not floating ugly structures that don't make sense.  But with creativity I don't have a problem if some one wants to create a giant cock tower out of the tools we're given.  You can always just tear it down.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Bororm

[S3V3N 1402]

I actually think there should be no freeform basebuilding at all. Instead you should be able to fortify/barricade existing houses/buildings, only. The bigger the building you chose, the more work it will be, but the more options you'll get to place machinery and storage. That way even solo players can get a moderate base build. The problem here is with lootspawns, because it will block them up. Imagine someone walling himself into the industrial buildings just to hoard mechanical parts. However, I think those bases wouldn't survive long. Ideally, the house you build in should just reset and be empty, so you can start filling it with your own interior. I think this could be done easily by despawning all props in a radius from the main door/gate.  

 

The only thing I'd like to see for us to be able to build are various types of fences and gates. Starting with simple wooden fences and working all the way up to tall military style fences with barbed wire top. So you can actually expand your complex and lock up vehicles inside, too. Unless they are in a car tent, they can be shot through the fence, though. I'd also make fences impervious to vehicles driving through/over them. I know it's not suprrealistic, but otherwise it would be too easy to break them. Explosives, on the other hand, may get the job done.  

 

The reason why I like fences is, because they might have multiple uses. As base building material and later perhaps for fencing in animals or safekeeping your horse/mule (against predator animals only).

I think, each should have their advantage. For example, a base made of tents would basically just give you a place to crash and start out with; kind of a backup/starter base to begin collecting tools for building and stock up on supplies.

The house base should be able to connect to a generator or electric grid and allow for building of advanced structures inside. For example: a forge to repair knifes/tools or to cast bullets and a workbench to repair and modify guns and rifles. Or a medical cabinet with some content that can be refilled. Storage boxes, of course. I'm much more interested in the structures we can build inside our bases than in the base-building itself.

 

There should be various ways to lock and protect your base, too. Like several different kinds of bars (plywood, solid wood, iron, steel) to lock up the base from the inside, even without a padlock or key. The stronger the material used, the harder it is to get in. Padlocks can be found and keys can be manufactured at workbenches. I'd also opt for just finding the workbench parts (and other parts) scattered on the map; maybe you need to recycle existing structures for the parts. Perhaps this can even lead to some cooperation, because people would prefer to be able to use these tools, even if it means they have to share them with another.

 

The basebuilding in Ark (was mentioned above), has one disadvantage - it unbalances the game. Even if you let aside building in caves in Ark, the big tribes can pretty much own a map and tear down all smaller bases during the night, using the stolen resources to make their own base nearly impossible to attack. On the long run the bigger tribes make it impossible for the small ones or solo players to build anything decent, since it is torn down within a couple of days. I don't want that to happen to Dayz, as one of Arks few flaws is the nightly raiding of your base and impossibility to protect it properly. I think in Dayz, bases should be pretty safe if you build/plan them right. You can still crack them, but it should take a lot of effort and time. It would also be great, if the bases had flags, in order to identify the owners clan. It should be possible to form alliances by exchanging your flag with others, so you'll raise 2,3 or 4 flags, instead of one. Bases should also have a mailbox, so you can leave notes for each other. Generally, I'd only allow for base building inside houses, if the zombies within a certain radius have been cleared out.

Edited August 8, 2015 by S3V3N

[Whyherro123 2283]

ok exploit is maybe the wrong word. I dont wanna see playerbuilded sandbagnests in cherno for sniping down new spawns. Or shacks in the middle of the street between  elektro and cherno to block vehicles. Stuff like this I hope wouldnt be possible because if there are clans with 5 people or more they will get the resources for those trollin actions and if its possible somebody will do it.

 

edit: If the devs find a way to balance this I would be very happy building my own base from the scratch in the woods

 

Why not? If someone wants to waste the time, effort, and materials to try and build a "sniper post" overlooking Cherno, all the power to them. EVERYONE and their mother will be able to see them, and what you can see, you can kill.....

 

As for the "roadblock" idea, that is both 1) a great idea, and 2) your own fault if you get trapped by it. It isn't like there is only one road between Cherno and Elektro, and the space between them is pretty flat. If you see what looks like a roadblock, back up and find a different way. Problem solved.

I'm more interested in what this base will do for me. I mean building a base is like putting up a sign "here I am". So what can a base do that the thousands of buildings can't do?

 

Someone explain what a H1z1 shack does, why are they everywhere?

 

In H1Z1, you can build a "basic" shack with only a few materials, like 10 or so boards, some nails, etc, and 30 seconds of work. As such, you see them literally covering hills like Chicken Pox

 

http://h1z1.gamepedia.com/Small_Shack

 

Plus, if you don't have the passcode, the thing is next-to invincible. 

 

Not how it should be. Something like that shack in the above link should take quite a bit of lumber, quite a number of nails, and quite some time to make. And, anyone with a prybar or an axe could hack their way in in a couple of minutes.

That's the problem with some of today's gamers. Give them freedom, and they will give you a shitstorm of trolling. Give them freeform basebuilding, and before long Chernarus will be dotted with dick fortresses and giant middle fingers. Compare it to Besiege, which also has a fairly freeform building model. Some people build intricate, beautiful and functioning machines. Some people build rickety giants that literally fuck castles to rubble with giant mechanical cocks. 

 

I understand that DayZ is supposed to be a serious survival horror game. I'm all for giving people the ability to set up a fortified position, but let's not give them too much freedom either. Existing buildings coupled with player-made simple structures, walls, fences, traps, barricades, etc... all these things put together can make for a solid base that looks like it was built by actual apocalypse survivors, rather than grotesque constructs made by immatured turds with too much free time and no consideration for the rest of us.

 

Easy. Just make "buildings and fortifications" take an appropriate amount of time and materials to build, and make sure they follow "real-world" physics. If something (a wall, a floor, a ceiling, etc) isn't supported, it will collapse. Boom, no "sky-bases" ala Epoch. If something takes even a modicum of effort, materials, and time to build, chances are players won't do it.

 

The whole reason H1Z1 has such a problem with bases FUCKING EVERYWHERE is because they take effectively-no materials and effectively-zero time to make.

[galekast 70]

I think they should stick to barricading, padlocking/combo locking doors, maybe even reinforcing doors a bit to make them a lot harder to break into. Eg/ You go back to base and log off, before doing so you can put bars or planks across the door or move something heavy from inside the house into the way of the door. 

 

Adding structures seems strange in this game.. Maybe very basic fortifications would be ok, I guess wooden or concrete/brick based would be reasonable as those supplies would be available still in the world. But I think actually building bases from scratch ala Epoch doesn't really fit.. You will end up with ridiculous concrete sniper towers all over the place just like Epoch.. Maybe little lean too structures onto the sides of existing buildings, eg, adding a small roof and wall onto the side of a house to hide a vehicle or something..

 

From a realistic point of view, if the zombie/infected apocalypse ever occurred, people wouldn't be out there building new structures to store stuff in and live in, they would be reinforcing and making safe existing buildings. That is where it needs to stay in my opinion.. But as we all know, there will be mods that will cater to the building of bases like in Epoch so lets keep vanilla for barricading and realism and allow the mods to cater to the rest.. However, I do think there needs to be some balance. If you need to spend 4-5 hours making barricades and making a building safe and zombie free, it should not be able to be broken into within 2 minutes as what the hell would be the point of doing it... 

[Whyherro123 2283]

-Reply to the above:

 

Actually, I would not want to be anywhere near a town, or, for that matter, a road. If there is a path to the building you are reinforcing, eventually, someone will follow the path. Just through sheer statistical probability. 

 

The fact that there is a viable road/path leading somewhere suggests that there is something at the end, even in the most isolated of dirt roads. People don't just build "roads to nowhere", after all. All it takes is somebody to think "Gee, I wonder what is down that dirt road?", and all of your hard work is worth jack shit.

 

You go down the isolated dirt road, then go off into the woods for a couple hundred meters. You still can be found, of course, but the chances are MUCH lower than if you just stayed in that house at the end of the road. I can't even understand why people would want to barricade a building in the middle of town.

 

And, again: if it takes a realistic amount of time, materials, and effort to build structures and fortifications, you won't have Epoch-style concrete monstrosities, or H1Z1 -"chickenpox"-shacks everywhere.

 

An Epoch-style concrete sniper tower would have to be made up of 1000+ bags of concrete, countless pieces of rebar reinforcement, hundreds of board-feet of lumber, countless numbers of nails, etc, and would have to be built in stages over WEEKS, and in between each stage, has to be allowed to "cure" (where the concrete dries) for a while, which is not insignificant. Who the hell would build that? Give me a shack in the woods, or an A-frame.

 

It happened in Epoch because basebuilding in Epoch was trivial. You could effectively carry entire walls and pieces of buildings in your inventory, and "building" them was drag-and-click. If they took even a slightly-realistic amount of time and materials, nobody would be doing it. That is what I am proposing: shelterbuilding takes a realistic amount of time, effort, and materials. A 10X10 shack made from barn-board would take an hour or two. A concrete pillbox would take a week at best.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Whyherro123

[xalienax 621]

-Reply to the above:

 

Actually, I would not want to be anywhere near a town, or, for that matter, a road. If there is a path to the building you are reinforcing, eventually, someone will follow the path. Just through sheer statistical probability. 

 

The fact that there is a viable road/path leading somewhere suggests that there is something at the end, even in the most isolated of dirt roads. People don't just build "roads to nowhere", after all. All it takes is somebody to think "Gee, I wonder what is down that dirt road?", and all of your hard work is worth jack shit.

 

You go down the isolated dirt road, then go off into the woods for a couple hundred meters. You still can be found, of course, but the chances are MUCH lower than if you just stayed in that house at the end of the road. I can't even understand why people would want to barricade a building in the middle of town.

 

And, again: if it takes a realistic amount of time, materials, and effort to build structures and fortifications, you won't have Epoch-style concrete monstrosities, or H1Z1 -"chickenpox"-shacks everywhere.

 

An Epoch-style concrete sniper tower would have to be made up of 1000+ bags of concrete, countless pieces of rebar reinforcement, hundreds of board-feet of lumber, countless numbers of nails, etc, and would have to be built in stages over WEEKS, and in between each stage, has to be allowed to "cure" (where the concrete dries) for a while, which is not insignificant. Who the hell would build that? Give me a shack in the woods, or an A-frame.

 

It happened in Epoch because basebuilding in Epoch was trivial. You could effectively carry entire walls and pieces of buildings in your inventory, and "building" them was drag-and-click. If they took even a slightly-realistic amount of time and materials, nobody would be doing it. That is what I am proposing: shelterbuilding takes a realistic amount of time, effort, and materials. A 10X10 shack made from barn-board would take an hour or two. A concrete pillbox would take a week at best.

This is pretty much what i want exactly.

Im not against massive compounds as long as the man-hours and weight of materials is even remotely realistic. the solo player can still build a basic shelter in the woods off the beaten path, and the large clan that wants to have 10 ppl gathering and building for 2 weeks can do that too. will the 10ppls base be harder for one person to bust into? of course (if they put any planning into it at least). But having a massive compound also means ever other clan/group on the server will know where you are. large 'clan bases' are basically a billboard saying 'HEY LOOK! A group of players has gathered massive piles of loot HERE.' at that point all one would need to do is a bit of recon, find out what times that clan is particularly active, then during their off hours hit them (preferably with the help of a few friends)

 

Making the materials for substantial free standing structures much more then you can carry in your inventory (Many dozens of times more then you can carry) would also promote cooperative play for those who wish to have the advantages of a strong base. (of course you'd also have to deal with the attention that brings). on top of this, i hope there are absolutely NO OWNERSHIP MECHANICS. No plot poles, no magical exclusion area, no indestructible anything.

[CornProducts 315]

I don't have a problem with giving a lot base building freedom. Let's go worst case scenario:

 

Clan "InsertNameHere" (INH) has a sizeable population that has members online at all times. Clan INH has blocked off all roads in and out of Elektro. Anyone that wanders nearby or spawns there is massacred or worse. It becomes a veritable death trap with sand bags, watchtowers, trip mines etc.  Doesn't that sounds like an awesome thing to have on a server? To have a constant danger to be wary of?

 

You run into another survivor who is new to the server, and as you settle down around a campfire to share some rabbit meat he asks you is there anywhere to watch out for.

 

"Yeah man, Elektro. It's a shit show."

 

"How so?"

 

"Some real fucked up people there. I don't want to talk about it." 

 

How rad would it be to unite a group of varied but decidedly anti-"INH clan" team of survivors to infiltrate and sabotage their hard work? Or try to suck up to them? Or attempt to befriend a man on the inside to help feed you intel about it?

 

I think it would contribute greatly to the story making of Dayz. And if a base becomes too much of an eyesore, remember... 

 

As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.