Problems with accuracy on Winchester?

[Just Caused 423]

I was sniping zombie at 600-700 meters, I had Winchester with Hunting scope. Even after 20 shots, zombie won't die or it isn't even hit. I am not bad shooter, I used to kill people easly at Balota at 600 meters with Mosin, but now with Winchester everything changed. What's your experience? I think this is bug.

[stinkenheim 249]

It's probably a bug with the zombies, likelihood is that they were very, very dead but until someone get's within 500m and triggers their animations it won't fall down. It's happened to me around Novo when I was trying to clear an area and zombies were hit (saw blood) but didn't fall until I got closer

[sanguine00 168]

Someone opened a feedback tracker ticket with video evidence of peculiar accuracy issues with a Longhorn:

 

http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=25609

 

It's possible that your issue has more to do with the configured range of the Model 70, or maybe it's the same thing.  I've noticed some strange bullet dispersion in 0.57, but I may have just been upset that I missed, lol.  I'll leave it to Wobo to investigate if it's actually anything to be concerned with.

[Mookie (original) 799]

Last night I was practising against a Z at around 700m with my scoped Winchester. I visibly hit him three times (saw blood), but he stayed up. Not sure if a problem with the Winchester, or a problem with distant Zs.

 

I've had this before though - with both Mosin at long range and M4/MP/ACOG. You can visibly hit them over and over again, but they stay up. Which perhaps is stinkenheim's point about animation triggers.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Mookie

[Kayback 3]

I have first round accuracy issues with an MP5 and an ACOG. My first round invariably hits about 3 feet high and right of the target. Low pings, stable shooting platform, not winded after sprinting.

 

KBK

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I'm having similar problems with the AKM + Kashtan. The scope is stuck on being zeroed for 400 meters. If I aim for the head, the bullet goes above the head of a zombie. If I aim for the chest, it hits every time. I thought it was because I changed my FOV settings in the cfg file. Can anyone else confirm?

Edited June 16, 2015 by ColdAtrophy

[Mookie (original) 799]

I have first round accuracy issues with an MP5 and an ACOG. My first round invariably hits about 3 feet high and right of the target. Low pings, stable shooting platform, not winded after sprinting.

 

KBK

I can't really see the point of putting an ACOG on an MP5. The gun's accuracy just doesn't justify it....

[-Gews- 7443]

I'm having similar problems with the AKM + Kashtan. The scope is stuck on being zeroed for 400 meters. If I aim for the head, the bullet goes above the head of a zombie. If I aim for the chest, it hits every time. I thought it was because I changed my FOV settings in the cfg file. Can anyone else confirm?

 

Working as intended. Kind of. The scope is not supposed to be adjusted in the field, on an AK-74 the bullet will only rise about 15 inches so aim center mass and hit from 0-400 meters. Simple to use for Russian infantry. But on the AKM with its slower rounds the bullet has to rise about 34 inches to reach 400 meters.

 

The AK-74 launches its bullet at about 0.17° to reach 400 meters. So if this was more realistic / better designed the same 0.17° would only send the AKM's bullet to about 260 meters, rising only 10 inches and you wouldn't have this problem of excessively loopy trajectory. 

[tux (DayZ) 325]

I have first round accuracy issues with an MP5 and an ACOG. My first round invariably hits about 3 feet high and right of the target. Low pings, stable shooting platform, not winded after sprinting.

 

KBK

 

I was having the same problem with my MP5 + ACOG. Was shooting a stupid goat, and I couldn't hit him, even though I got pretty close to him. He even sat down (mocking me, I'm sure) and I couldn't get a hit.

 

Was also having problems hitting a player who was server hopping at a heli crash that I found. I was out of breath that time, but it still looked like one of the ~15 shots I took (single fire) should've hit him. 

 

It is an SMG, maybe the range just falls off really fast. Makes you wonder why you can slap an ACOG on there in the first place.

[Bororm 1156]

I mean the added magnification from an acog is useful regardless, even at short ranges.  It fits the acog because of the rail system so it makes sense.   It's only a good thing if it is down to personal preference on what sight you wanna use on something like an mp5.  It's boring when there's one clear "best" optic.

 

As to the OP, try moving up to the zombies and see if they do fall over.  That's been a long time thing that I remember.  But they are always fucking around with weapon stats so I wouldn't be surprised if they're bugged too.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Bororm

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Working as intended. Kind of. The scope is not supposed to be adjusted in the field, on an AK-74 the bullet will only rise about 15 inches so aim center mass and hit from 0-400 meters. Simple to use for Russian infantry. But on the AKM with its slower rounds the bullet has to rise about 34 inches to reach 400 meters.

 

The AK-74 launches its bullet at about 0.17° to reach 400 meters. So if this was more realistic / better designed the same 0.17° would only send the AKM's bullet to about 260 meters, rising only 10 inches and you wouldn't have this problem of excessively loopy trajectory. 

 

See I wondered if the fact that the scope was set to 400 and unchangeable was a bug or something. Most other scopes I have interacted with have allowed zeroing to several different ranges. 

 

I'm not 100% sure I understand. Any way could humor me and give a little more detail? Maybe some links or pictures or something? Forgive my ignorance. Guns just aren't my forte. 

[Bororm 1156]

See I wondered if the fact that the scope was set to 400 and unchangeable was a bug or something. Most other scopes I have interacted with have allowed zeroing to several different ranges. 

 

I'm not 100% sure I understand. Any way could humor me and give a little more detail? Maybe some links or pictures or something? Forgive my ignorance. Guns just aren't my forte. 

 

I'm not an expert and I'm sure Gews or some one else will give a better explanation but basically the scope isn't meant to be zeroable.  It's adjusted to a specific range and the indicators on it are for quick zeroing to the other ranges.  It's more convenient than trying to adjust it manually, you've already got the ones you'll likely be using marked out.  The center chevron is 400 then 500 600 700 (or whatever the case, I'm not familiar with the kashtan).  Ideally the 400 (center) mark is good for anything from 0-400m because the bullet doesn't actually arc that much, but as Gews pointed out the SA has funky trajectories (the mod was a lot better about this).  Then if you wanna shoot something at 600 you just use that chevron/marker.

 

Here's a quick chart from the mod that might help better illustrate http://i.imgur.com/qsyNVL9.png

 

Scopes like the SVD's have built in range finders.  The acog also functions that way with the horizontal lines roughly lining up with the shoulder width of the target.  I'd imagine being able to zero with the acog currently is something that will be removed.

 

Any ways the general idea is that you aren't fucking around zeroing, and just quickly finding range/adjusting.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Bororm

[-Gews- 7443]

See I wondered if the fact that the scope was set to 400 and unchangeable was a bug or something. Most other scopes I have interacted with have allowed zeroing to several different ranges. 

 

I'm not 100% sure I understand. Any way could humor me and give a little more detail? Maybe some links or pictures or something? Forgive my ignorance. Guns just aren't my forte. 

 

Here is how it works ...

 

 

 

 

... and here is how it should work.

 

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

-snip-

 

-snip-

 

You guys are fucking awesome. I just want you to know that. Seriously. Awesome.

 

So if I'm understanding this correctly, in order to hit the center chevron at 400 meters, the slower 7.62x39mm round must arc higher, which is why I am missing shots at 30-50 meters that I used to make with ease.

Edited June 16, 2015 by ColdAtrophy

[Kayback 3]

 

 

It is an SMG, maybe the range just falls off really fast. Makes you wonder why you can slap an ACOG on there in the first place.

Because the zombie I was shooting at was at less than 100m. An MP5, heck most SMG's should be able to do that easy peasy with irons, especially easily with a magnified optic on it. 100m isn't very far in terms of ballistics. I can make man sized hits with a pistol at 75m. 

 

For snuffing out zombies a pistol caliber, suppressed carbine should work wonders. And it does. When it works. Happened again last night. About 80m, first round hit high and right, next two were center mass. I wouldn't even mind if you had to add crazy Kentucky Windage for the 9mm rounds, but at 100m everything should be low, not high. It also makes no logical sense that 1 round is off and the others are spot on.

 

With a 400m zero on an AKM shooting 7.62x39mm M43 or equivalent you'd only be ~21" high max at ~250m. True a 5.45x39mm would only run you 15" high but it still wouldn't be 36" for the AKM 

[-Gews- 7443]

You guys are fucking awesome. I just want you to know that. Seriously. Awesome.

 

So if I'm understanding this correctly, in order to hit the center chevron at 400 meters, the slower 7.62x39mm round must arc higher, which is why I am missing shots at 30-50 meters that I used to make with ease.

Most likely.

With a 400m zero on an AKM shooting 7.62x39mm M43 or equivalent you'd only be ~21" high max at ~250m. True a 5.45x39mm would only run you 15" high but it still wouldn't be 36" for the AKM

7.62x39 still has incorrect ballistics pasted from ARMA 2 hence 34". Should be more like 26-29".

[3n3rm4x 3]

So here is my question... How to find target's ranges using pso-1, acog and the new ak scope (i don't if the last two have a "built-in" range finder) ?

[Bororm 1156]

So here is my question... How to find target's ranges using pso-1, acog and the new ak scope (i don't if the last two have a "built-in" range finder) ?

 

http://i.imgur.com/qsyNVL9.png  (this is from the mod, numbers might not be the same)

 

pso-1 has a built in range finder, you match the target to the curve on the left and choose the corresponding chevron. see svd in chart

 

acog you match the target's shoulder widths and use the corresponding lines. see chart

 

new ak scope i'd imagine you can do something with those vertical lines similar to the cz in the chart i posted above.  (I don't believe that's actually what the lines are for, but it can work)

 

This is all assuming they are actually functioning properly.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Bororm

[ZomboWTF 527]

You guys are fucking awesome. I just want you to know that. Seriously. Awesome.

 

So if I'm understanding this correctly, in order to hit the center chevron at 400 meters, the slower 7.62x39mm round must arc higher, which is why I am missing shots at 30-50 meters that I used to make with ease.

yup, imagine your character mounts the scope always so, that the scope is zeroed at 400 meters, with the wrong gun (specifically, slower bullet velocity), you won't hit where the scope tells you, except for the one point at 400 meters

 

to compensate, if a target is not very far away, but still not very close (specifically at about 200 meters, where the arc has it's climax), you need to aim lower than with a gun that has higher bullet velocity

 

this is also why the 5.56 rounds are so good for long range engagements, you can hit stuff very easily up to 400 meters and don't need to compensate for bullet drop

[aasand 92]

But something is also wrong with the damage output. People can take a mag from the Makarov to the head while unconscious and still have steady pulse. Same with mp5 and PMK, very weak

[Evil Minion 943]

Maybe the hit detection is messed up? Though I got a similar effect with the Mosin some patches before where zombies were hit and died but did not show (they kept running/standing as before).

 

Seems like magic zeroing sometimes works against the shooter and not only against the target. I hope they will change it to non-magic soon-ish now that FoV is fixed for scopes.

I can't really see the point of putting an ACOG on an MP5. The gun's accuracy just doesn't justify it....

Only that the ACOG increases this accuracy just by being mounted. And it gives you a better vision on your target and magic zeroing if you want to shoot further. With the ACOG the effective range of the MP5-K increases up to over 200m (when using all attachments) and allows to take lucky shots beyond that.

[stinkenheim 249]

The only reason zeds stay upright at range, even when hit, is because they are completely frozen in place until someone gets it him 500m and 'activates' their animations. Then they'll fall to the ground.

You can use it to tell if players are in an area because the zeds will be frozen in place if no one is within that range.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

So, the real takeaway for me from this thread (sorry for the derailing OP! :lol: ) is that I have absolutely no idea how scopes are designed to work in real life and DayZ is going to force me to learn if I want to be effective at range. I've been playing FPS/TPS games since Goldeneye on the N64 when I was pretty young, but I guess all the games that I have played that featured mildots and lines of all sorts in scopes have conditioned me to ignore everything but the very center point of my sight. In most games, it is even likely that the targeting lines (or whatever they are called) are unnecessary fluff just for the sake of the scope looking cool. In this game, it is (or will be, eventually?) actually giving me useful information. I vaguely understood that the Battlefield games have sniper scopes with lines and marks that can be used to gauge distance, but I never bothered to learn it because I never found it to be particularly necessary.