The new 3pp camera and FOV Slider

[Julianwop (DayZ) 14]

Hey guys, just thought I'd leave this here.

http://imgur.com/a/SoBY2

It seems that we can still look over walls, however, this is only the first implementation though. 

But, should we lock the FOV to a certain point like described in the last couple of pictures? It seems like a fair way to go?

What's your thoughts about this?

[Rags! 1966]

I didn't even notice they changed it. 

 

I mean...what's the point of changing the camera when it still allows Peekaboo Mode to be enabled?

[Julianwop (DayZ) 14]

It's more over the shoulder than it used to be, but it took me a minute to notice aswell. Also, you can change "shoulder view" by pressing Q and E(Changes camera right/left), you now need to hold them to do the wiggle.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Julianwop

[scriptfactory 620]

I truly loathe OTS third person.

[ebrim 998]

I didn't even notice they changed it. 

 

I mean...what's the point of changing the camera when it still allows Peekaboo Mode to be enabled?

 

My guess is it's just a first step/proof of concept.

[gibonez 3633]

Glad to see they changed it.

 

Your suggestion also makes sense. FOV should only be there to help people with motion sickness in first person view and be locked completely in TPV since it already has the benefit of a wider fov.

 

I would also suggest locking how far the camera can see when looking at the ground  so when you reach a certain point the camera locks in on your character even if your character continues to lower his head.

 

This would eliminate over the wall peeking and at the same time not hinder the player in any way.

[Jex 1104]

That's a NEW camera mode? I know I haven't played for a few months but it looks EXACTLY the same as the old mode - oh ok I stared at it long enough and...

 

WTF were the Dev's thinking?

 

LMFAO!!!!!    THIS is what they came up with???

 

BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA

 

          

 

 

 

 

That wasn't too over the top, was it?

 

 

;)

[Evil Minion 943]

My guess is it's just a first step/proof of concept.

I highly doubt you can solve the peeking issue by changing the camera position. Unless they make it a very complex moving camera that would probably annoy third person players while eating way more resources than a fog-of-war-ish feature.

[sneakydudes 278]

Glad to see they changed it.

 

Your suggestion also makes sense. FOV should only be there to help people with motion sickness in first person view and be locked completely in TPV since it already has the benefit of a wider fov.

 

I would also suggest locking how far the camera can see when looking at the ground  so when you reach a certain point the camera locks in on your character even if your character continues to lower his head.

 

This would eliminate over the wall peeking and at the same time not hinder the player in any way.

My Suggestion, Lock the 3rd Person Camera to Something Around Here. < ------ 25% fov I think it is.

 

Just below the pocket I usually had mine. I never had a problem with it running around. The motion sickness is exactly what you could call it. Many of us suffer from it.

 

Hard to really explain, to those that don't feel it.

 

Games that where 1st person wore me down pretty fast. Once I figured out how to use 3pp, I was able to use it and allowed for more game time.

 

Much of it also has to do with the sway animations in 1pp too. Sometimes games would force that on players. Which quickly would dissolve players like myself from continuing on with it.

 

Not everyone is young, and into console game, like the fast paced arcade style game. Many of us wont even touch those.

 

4th thread on 1pp actions today, why are these not all in one topic? Even though I agree its a tad different then the rest. Much better topic to respond to, safely explaining 1pp to 3pp reasons and FOV has everything to do with it. Hopefully there is one setting for all, but I doubt it.

Edited June 5, 2015 by TheSneakyDude

[roguetrooper 201]

That new 3rd person view isn't that great. Anyway... my signature...

[hekp 223]

There's already fixed version called 1pp.

 

I don't think 3pp cam "abuse" will ever be completely fixed, unless they put massive amount of resources in it. I honestly think some of you are asking for impossible. Only way you could really stop players from using it is to make other players not render at all once your behind a solid non transparent hard cover. I don't know about you, but something like that sounds pretty complex to me and they will have to invest massive amounts of work hrs to make it happen.Do you think the server would really be capable of tracking each players LOS and do all  the correct player rendering in realtime without any additional desyncs or whatever issues?

 

I'm really curious how many % 3pp players want this "abusive" mechanic to be fixed, because im getting a feeling this is being pushed forward by the same group of a few hundred people who just cant get used to it.

 

I guess the only thing that bothers me is knowing that they will re-adjust the camera for at least some 5 times and what not for the next n-updates, whilst they could work on something else. And each time they will do it, there will be a new reddit post saying "hey if lean to this corner i can still try-hard peak out".  Well, dohhhhhhh > :( .

Besides, how will you make it so i wont be able to hug a tree/bush/garbage bin/insert obj. name here and peek left/right?

 

And guys, for real, parking at the corner peeking might be lame because you don't see the bad bad exploiter, but honestly, you don't stand a chance spotting me on 1pp if i hug a bush either.

Or if i hug a tree. Or pretty much any object as long as i stay still and keep one obj. in our LOS/LOF. I dont need 3pp for that.

I had hrs of sessions on 50/50 berezino where people would literally slaughter themselves 3m away from the bush i was standing in.

I think some of you put way too much death credit to 3pp cam. That being said, just be grateful for whatever change the devs. are trying to do to please you.

Majority of people doesn't have a problem with this cam. because we all stand on equal grounds, so the way i see it, they're actually trying to satisfy the minority.

And they try to fix something that's very hard to fix. Be happy :)

 

I guess this post belongs more to reddit and it's never ending /dayz bitching, but i cant bother making an account there for that very reason.

Edited June 5, 2015 by halp

[ebrim 998]

....

I think some of you put way too much death credit to 3pp cam. That being said, just be grateful for whatever change the devs. are trying to do to please you.

Majority of people doesn't have a problem with this cam. because we all stand on equal grounds, so the way i see it, they're actually trying to satisfy the minority.

And they try to fix something that's very hard to fix. Be happy.

 

Speaking for myself, it doesn't really how much or how often people die because of some moron camping a wall. What matters is that it just feels completely wrong and removes an element of surprise and tension from the game which it would benefit from and which does exist 1pp (which is itself a pretty flawed experience). Imagine playing STALKER with the current DayZ 3pp camera; it would feel so horribly hollow. I think you're right that camera abuse will never be entirely removed or "fixed" and that's fine, it can be made better though. As far as what is popular, that's a silly way to argue something. Of course lots of people like candy land easy mode. Lots of people would also like to spawn into the game with a fully kitted M4, I'm sure that would be very popular but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for making an interesting game in the long run.

 

Don't let perfect be the enemy of "good enough". We can make 3pp better, less fruitful from abuse without trying to eliminate "peeking" altogether.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Ebrim

[ScipioII 176]

I do not have a huge problem with 3pp because it adds a dimension that is lost in the game compared to IRL.

 

If you hide behind a wall irl you can sense what is going on where you can't see,  by using hearing. Noises or lack of noises. You can judge distance and direction using noise. The 3pp camera adds a little of that perspective back to balance the game out imho.

 

I've been running from z's and if you do not use 3pp you cannot see them behind you. IRL you will be able to hear, without looking, if and how far something is behind you. Even how many.

[hekp 223]

 

As far as what is popular, that's a silly way to argue something. Of course lots of people like candy land easy mode. Lots of people would also like to spawn into the game with a fully kitted M4, I'm sure that would be very popular but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for making an interesting game in the long run.

Yeah you are right, i should let the popular opinion out of this, otherwise m4 would definitely replace the flashlight at the beach.

I don't think 3pp is easy mode tho, it just requires a different play style. Play style that some find cheap. I just think it's allot more tactical and requires allot more thinking of an approach when the enemy can see you advance without exposing himself & vice versa.

 

 

Don't let perfect be the enemy of "good enough". We can make 3pp better, less fruitful from abuse without trying to eliminate "peeking" altogether.

Pretty much this ^^ I do hope at some point it will be "good enough" for those who are bothered by this mechanic, because it will never(?) be perfect.

Personally i don't mind whatever change will happen, i just hope  this wont bring other dev. projects to a halt.

Edited June 5, 2015 by halp

[guyver1 70]

Standing up - wide normal 3PP camera view

Crouched - 3PP still but camera locks directly above and slightly behind shoulder reducing the FOV (when using lean when crouched, camera  will switch shoulder depending on which way your leaning)

Prone - locks to first person

 

fixes the 'camper on top of a roof in Cherno' scenario, and brings back some tension and suspense when prone.

You want to camp a roof top, you gotta stand up and put yourself in harms way of a bullet.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Guyver1

[gibonez 3633]

Standing up - wide normal 3PP camera view

Crouched - 3PP still but camera locks directly above and slightly behind shoulder reducing the FOV (when using lean when crouched, camera  will switch shoulder depending on which way your leaning)

Prone - locks to first person

 

fixes the 'camper on top of a roof in Cherno' scenario, and brings back some tension and suspense when prone.

You want to camp a roof top, you gotta stand up and put yourself in harms way of a bullet.

 

 

Even in the mod there were some servers running a script that disabled third person view when crouched and when prone.

 

Such an option might work in standalone as it pretty much eliminates the exploit in 90 percent of the most abuse able circumstances.

[ZomboWTF 527]

Standing up - wide normal 3PP camera view

Crouched - 3PP still but camera locks directly above and slightly behind shoulder reducing the FOV (when using lean when crouched, camera  will switch shoulder depending on which way your leaning)

Prone - locks to first person

 

fixes the 'camper on top of a roof in Cherno' scenario, and brings back some tension and suspense when prone.

You want to camp a roof top, you gotta stand up and put yourself in harms way of a bullet.

wow, so easy and so brilliant... peeking corners would still be possible, but prone invisible, all-overlooking snipers would be gone... +1

 

i hope someone brings this to attention to the devs somehow, it's REALLY a good and simple solution

Edited June 7, 2015 by Zombo

[Bororm 1156]

By definition third person is being able to see more than your character, they are wasting their time trying to defy logic.

[scriptfactory 620]

Standing up - wide normal 3PP camera view

Crouched - 3PP still but camera locks directly above and slightly behind shoulder reducing the FOV (when using lean when crouched, camera  will switch shoulder depending on which way your leaning)

Prone - locks to first person

 

fixes the 'camper on top of a roof in Cherno' scenario, and brings back some tension and suspense when prone.

You want to camp a roof top, you gotta stand up and put yourself in harms way of a bullet.

 

I love this suggestion. Add this and get rid of the OTS camera view.

[-MadTommy 367]

I just wish they had removed 3pp on day one and all this would be a thing of the past.  I've never understood and justification for 3pp view.  Its a shame as now the community will always be divided.

[Evil Minion 943]

wow, so easy and so brilliant... peeking corners would still be possible, but prone invisible, all-overlooking snipers would be gone... +1

 

i hope someone brings this to attention to the devs somehow, it's REALLY a good and simple solution

For added value you could simply change the (0.57) third person camera to rotate around it's own horizontal axis instead of the characters head so you cannot lift it higher by looking downwards.

 

Now applying the same principles to corner peeking does not work as you would need to more the camera forward to a point where it is basically first person anyways. I don't really see any other way but adding some kind of fog of war here (not showing characters, loot and effects if your character has no line of sight) but the former proposal might make it possible to reduce this part to two dimensions which might make it significantly easier to implement.

[ZomboWTF 527]

For added value you could simply change the (0.57) third person camera to rotate around it's own horizontal axis instead of the characters head so you cannot lift it higher by looking downwards.

 

Now applying the same principles to corner peeking does not work as you would need to more the camera forward to a point where it is basically first person anyways. I don't really see any other way but adding some kind of fog of war here (not showing characters, loot and effects if your character has no line of sight) but the former proposal might make it possible to reduce this part to two dimensions which might make it significantly easier to implement.

plus you could make the camera take a fix at the persons waist, not the head, then leaning in third person wouldn't be an option to peak anymore

[mercules 1290]

If you hide behind a wall irl you can sense what is going on where you can't see,  by using hearing. Noises or lack of noises. You can judge distance and direction using noise.

Which you can do in first person. The sound is also going to be worked on so that it more perfectly correlates to the location it came from. Also, you can't hear something standing still 600 meters from the fence you are behind, but you can see it in 3rd person... so...

I've been running from z's and if you do not use 3pp you cannot see them behind you. IRL you will be able to hear, without looking, if and how far something is behind you. Even how many.

Lies, in 1PP you can glance over your shoulders to see the zeds just fine. Makes different backpacks more worthwhile too since some of them hold more, but block LoS over your shoulder.

[ScipioII 176]

Which you can do in first person. The sound is also going to be worked on so that it more perfectly correlates to the location it came from. Also, you can't hear something standing still 600 meters from the fence you are behind, but you can see it in 3rd person... so...

Lies, in 1PP you can glance over your shoulders to see the zeds just fine. Makes different backpacks more worthwhile too since some of them hold more, but block LoS over your shoulder.

You contradict yourself in that statement. The backpack I like prevent me from seeing a z right behind me. 

No need calling people liers.

[mercules 1290]

You contradict yourself in that statement. The backpack I like prevent me from seeing a z right behind me. 

No need calling people liers.

No contradiction. The backpack you LIKE doesn't let you see over your shoulder, but you want to see over your shoulder... maybe you shouldn't "like" that one so much. See, that is part of the point. In 3rd person I use the biggest backpack because it is the biggest backpack and holds more crap. In 1st I NEVER use that backpack if I have any other choice because the trade-off of more spaces isn't worth the loss of awareness. See, right there you helped me demonstrate how 1st helps bring more depth to the game.

Mountain Backpack is the "best" for space but horrible for view.

Drybag and Tortilla have great space but can block a small amount of your view.

The Hunting and Improvised don't block your view at all but don't hold as much as some and are not waterproof.

See how the one difference gives different items different qualities and makes more than one backpack a solid choice? It's give and take.

Ghillie Wrap on your gun can help hide it and you, but can also block LoS in 1st person. Many of my friends no longer craft one because of that.

Vehicles are HARD to drive in 1st they really limit your view so you can be ambushed very easily... but in 3rd they actually give you a BETTER view of what is around you than when on foot. No trade-off in 3rd, in first it is a trade-off of armor and speed versus awareness.