Realism Vs Enjoyment

[lvlagic 25]

Ask anyone:

 

"do you fancy the world ending today and being thrust into a harsh environment where you will likely starve to death in under an hour, and if you encounter any zombies there will be no despatching them like woody harrelson as they are so glitchy and you get hit 6 times by a zombie that was right in front of you when you swung and missed, oh and 4 hits with an axe doesnt seem to finish them off either"

 

and they will likely say:

 

"f*ck off"

 

Now i am all for realism in a game like this but come on it has to actually be enjoyable! Its not realistic for someone to starve in an hour, a couple of days, but an hour, no.  And whats with the zombies, they glitch all over the place hit you repeatedly, the animation says you hit but they are still slashing away.  I searched for 2 hours and found one tin of sardines, and yes i checked everywhere..  i finally found a bag but couldnt find anything to put in it.  I snagged myself a black firemans jacket, ultra rare, yet it was ruined in 2 nigh on impossible encounters with a zombie. You cant hit something when the hit boxes are not with the animation, and the animation warps all over the shop.

 

I know its alpha, i dont mind it being harder, but if you dont enjoy playing then whats the point.  A zombie apocolyse is not something anyone would choose to do, but people play "games" to enjoy themselves, "simulators" are usually dull and sheet and for the bespectacled tubby freaks that still live with mum.  If theres not much food then fine, but you dont become starving in 40 mins, where is the realism in that? And fix the warping zombies.  Oh and someone mend my frikken firemans jacket, i wanted on of those for 9 months!

 

:end of rant:

[Pandema 352]

They've gotta walk a line between enjoyment and realism.

 

People want realism, but if it gets too real, people stop playing and the community dies. You'll end up with a couple servers worth of people circle jerking how hardcore they are for bashing their skulls into a brick wall instead of playing a fun game.

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Ill let everyone else handle this, because these posts are just.... annoying to say the least.

 

 

(Alphur)

[Sebidee 167]

This game isn't realistic in the slightest. In fact realism has been stamped on to artificially make the game more difficult (that is, if the current state is intentional and not a set of glitches which I hope it is). Day z is starting to move further away from a simulator and is becoming a rage game.

 

No, you can't starve in 40 minutes. (A couple of hours might be acceptable for practical reasons).

No, apples do not grow on trees one at a time.

No, melee weapons are not that weak.

No, zombies should not be faster and stronger than humans.

No, there would not be so few vehicles.

No, entire towns would not be completely empty of any kind of usable equipment. Especially basic household objects.

No, equipment would not be totally destroyed by one hit from a zombie.

No, you don't need a pot to cook things, or a fancy fishing lure to catch fish.

 

I mean what's the point? That's not simulation.

 

Really frustrated with the current build.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Sebidee

[jubeidok 495]

Has it ever occurred to you that this game just isn't for you? I don't play Pokemon because it's not for me, not my kind of game. I don't play Starcraft or RTS' in general because they're not my kind of game.

 

This is a niche game that blew up and drew a huge audience of people that just don't really want to be playing what the game is. Why do you think the mod spawned so many different mods of the mod.

Edited April 9, 2015 by JubeiDOK

[GaryWalnuts 1680]

It seems nobody can enjoy any patch without being either so hardcore elitist or cawadoody 420leetsnipah.

[IReadTheAgreement 313]

"simulators" are usually dull and sheet

 

You've obviously never played goat simulator.

 

DayZ is a mod from a military simulator.  What did you really expect from DayZ SA?  It just took a step closer to what the devs have been saying it's supposed to be for a while now.  You have to be exaggerating on how long it took you to find one can of sardines.  I'm not one of the people on these forums that's just going to yell "Get gud n00b" but loot and food isn't too hard to attain.  I haven't picked a single apple tree since this patch and I've played every day since it has come out.  You just have to re-think your loot runs and sneak around/run away from zombies.

 

Hint:  Check outhouses, deer stands, and guard towers

[sgtpotatoes@gmail.com 30]

I want to go have a drink with my son.  I also want to take him shooting, work on my car with him, and see him graduate college.

But he's three.  So I don't judge him based on these wants.

 

You know DZ is in alpha development.  It's still growing and going through drastic changes while all the final bits are developed and put together.  If you want to talk about realism, let's talk about realistic expectations.  Things like balance and optimization come later on.

[Sebidee 167]

You know DZ is in alpha development.  It's still growing and going through drastic changes while all the final bits are developed and put together.  If you want to talk about realism, let's talk about realistic expectations.  Things like balance and optimization come later on.

 

Discussing realistic expectations means discussing improvements to the game

 

Discussing improvements to the game means criticising it's current state.

 

Criticising the current state is not allowed or tolerated on the forums.

[Syphonz 64]

Im a little bit of both sides in this arguement.

 

 

I get it, its supposed to be hard. And yes, I WANT it to be hard. I thought it was too easy to get geared pre 0.55

 

 

But now, I think its slightly too hard.

 

 

Im surviving, unlike alot of people out there. Ive found enough supplies to not have to dig into the food that I had stockpiled pre 0.55.

 

 

Personally, I dont mind the patch, I like hard, but, I can see where people are coming form.

 

 

In the middle would be the best.

[NewArk 39]

Discussing realistic expectations means discussing improvements to the game

 

Discussing improvements to the game means criticising it's current state.

 

Criticising the current state is not allowed or tolerated on the forums.

Have my beans for that! Could not have said it better.

[hleVqq 139]

I enjoy realism. The fun part of it, anyway.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Powerhouse

[sgtpotatoes@gmail.com 30]

Discussing realistic expectations means discussing improvements to the game

 

Discussing improvements to the game means criticising it's current state.

 

Criticising the current state is not allowed or tolerated on the forums.

Realistic expectations of the game's current state.  Not related to potential development.

 

Referring to the OP:

[...] I know its alpha, i dont mind it being harder, but if you dont enjoy playing then whats the point.  A zombie apocolyse is not something anyone would choose to do, but people play "games" to enjoy themselves [...]

Judgement like this is fine if you're critiquing a game you bought at the store after a full closed development cycle.  DZ works differently, being open to anyone who wants to buy in.  The entire point of making it EA is to bring in the biggest team of alpha testers ever.  It worked for Minecraft, and it's working here.  

 

The game will be broken by full release standards.  It will do things that would get complete games pulled from stores and the developers shamed.  But that's how alpha builds are, and it won't be that way forever.  Alpha testers need to criticize their game, but as a work in progress.  Zombies are changing, food/health is changing, durability is changing.  Dump on the game when it's done.

[pauldog 18]

This is a great topic and is probably close to the mark with regards my experience: Is DayZ appreciably more difficult - no, not a lot in that you can survive quite easily but that's all you can do, survive; Is DayZ appreciably more dull - Yes, massively so. I appreciate the realism but I am not going to spend my gaming time growing f*&^ing tomatoes or finding a berry bush close to an apple tree and just walking between the two for sustenance and hydration.

 

The most exciting thing to happen today was to get my hatchet stuck in said berry bush and I had to wander/sneak around a town until I found a steak knife so I could turn the bush into kindling and get my hatchet back. WooHoo. BTW this may actually be a bit of a bug - don't drop your 'in hands' item on a bush while you search, leave it just behind you then turn to search the bush.

 

For those complaining about the complainers keep in mind that most are offering their opinions in their own way and without those opinions nothing would change. If no-one said anything the Devs could say "ok all is right with DayZ, the peeps love it' and go Gold. If you are happy with exactly how the game is now, say so, if you aren't, say so. Let the powers that be pick the middle ground - you can't please everybody.

[pauldog 18]

I enjoy realism. The fun part of it, anyway.

 

Just not the 'real' part ; )

[Pandema 352]

Discussing realistic expectations means discussing improvements to the game

 

Discussing improvements to the game means criticising it's current state.

 

Criticising the current state is not allowed or tolerated on the forums.

 

This is more or less my experience with these forums, if you have an opinion that doesn't fall into "Ohmygawdthisgameishogreat!" people start screaming "ALPHA ALPHA IT AN ALHPUR!" or "Lol go back to Cawadooty kiddie while use real men play DayZ"

 

And since I can't be bothered to multiquote. ArmA II is not a "military simulator" its simply more realistic than its competitors, which isn't saying much.

If it were a simulator the physics wouldn't be absolutely abysmal and sniping at 800 meters wouldn't be pressing page up till the little 800 shows up then point-and-clicking the bad guys, it'd have a built in fatigue system because running 7km's at a dead sprint carrying an M249 with a dozen full boxes of ammo should kill you not make it a bit harder to aim. It'd have an in-depth medical system, not just scroll wheel to heal/revive and spend a medkit. Standing near the barrel of an Abrams firing AP rounds would either kill you from the overpressure or the shrapnel the round sheds as it's fired. Getting shot in the foot three times with an M4 would have you on the ground or limit mobility, not straight up kill you. Driving 60 ton tracked vehicles wouldn't be like driving a VW Bug in a skating rink. You'd actually be able to autorotate a helicopter while outside of ACE. Every vehicle wouldn't have a radar that IFFs random shit.

[lvlagic 25]

As far as "is this game really for you?" I *really*enjoyed dayz before this update... I was at the stage of getting half an hour in before work in the mornings.. I packed 200 odd hours in, rented a server and if they wanted to charge me for the full game I'd have parted with £100 happily.

My point is that an "update" should be exactly that, and update on what we already had, not a regression.

And as far as us being the alpha testers for the game... I'm pretty sure that the devs have some sort of testing regime and I'm pretty sure they do actually perform some sort of testing before each patch is released.. So they must have known the sort of comments they were going to get over 0.55

The lack of food I can deal with IF I could actually make it between towns without starving. Any human can go a whole day without food!

The zombie problem is the biggest thing for me, I liked a good scrap with a zombie before, regardless of how I was equipped. You could actually tackle a zombie with your fists as the models moved, albeit a little sketchy, but on the whole consistently. Now they warp all over the place you get hit from all angles and a fairly straightforward zombie encounter is now a tedious, infuriating bore.

Why they can't concentrate on actually fixing the silly bugs for a couple of patches before they go adding new content I do not know. I STILL have to press 1 several times to actually get my axe out. Things STILL disappear or become unobtainable when you put them down. Zombies STILL appear through walls. I STILL see loot I cannot pick up. I walk through some slightly boggy ground and I am STILL soaking. Yes, it's alpha but these bugs have been around for many updates.

It may just be my humble opinion, as a paid up member of bought the game club, but it's just not anywhere near as much fun, the people I usually play with feel the same and I will be soiling myself with battlefield till the next patch when hopefully my faith will be restored.

And yes, the usual loot runs may have changed but to be fair, in terms of realism, people don't usually keep things in toilets, especially food, the occasional teddy bear maybe, but if I was looking for food, in a real world I would most likely look in the kitchen maybe.....

[Parazight 1599]

Authentic and realistic is not the same thing.  Dayz is not designed to be realistic.

[gibonez 3633]

If you do not enjoy realism then you are lucky 99.99 of the video games out there can fit your needs.

 

Dayz and Arma are only seperated by two things.

 

#1. Their attempts at realism.

 

#2. How mod friendly they are and how healthy its mod community is.

 

 

 

To try to appease casual gamers by cutting down on the realism would do a diservice to Dayz as to be honest that is the only major thing that it has going for it compared to the multitude of zombie clones in the market.

 

Realism is the golden goose for Dayz. Without it lets face it , without it it's just another kid down the block touting zombies and survival.

[Syphonz 64]

Authentic and realistic is not the same thing.  Dayz is not designed to be realistic.

 

Your playing the wrong game then my friend. If I can get cholera from drinking non purified water, then, I dont know what realism is.

[lvlagic 25]

Realism is the golden goose for Dayz. Without it lets face it , without it it's just another kid down the block touting zombies and survival.

I don't want to be the guy that tells you Santa doesn't exist... But dayz is not very real at all..

I'll just stitch these zombie wounds up with a sewing kit I found in a garage, it'll be fine.....

Oh what's this, a helicopter crash? Peach! A jacket and vest I can wear that isn't torched.. Whaddayaknow, an assault rifle that made it through the crash and fires perfectly...

How far is it..? 30kms..? I will just sprint there carrying all my stuff, have a tin of beans when I get there, that'll sort me out

The helmet, boots and all the clothes I just found all fit me perfectly, what are the chances...?

I've got a plastic bottle and a hook, I caught a fish, John wilson has got nothing on me..

What's this? Some burlap sacks and some netting, get me a job on blue peter, check the full on ghille suit I just made out..

I stepped down 18" off a ledge, damn it my leg is broken..

I'll just light a fire inside this house, I won't be overcome by fumes it'll be grand..

I was out in the rain for nearly 90 seconds.. Hypothermia ensues.

I haven't eaten for nearly 40 mins, I'm starving to death.

Take your realism retorts and stitch some natty leather trousers out of them.

[Reg Park 160]

It's a game about zombies.... how much realism could there be?? I play games to take a break from reality.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I don't want to be the guy that tells you Santa doesn't exist... But dayz is not very real at all..

I'll just stitch these zombie wounds up with a sewing kit I found in a garage, it'll be fine.....

Oh what's this, a helicopter crash? Peach! A jacket and vest I can wear that isn't torched.. Whaddayaknow, an assault rifle that made it through the crash and fires perfectly...

How far is it..? 30kms..? I will just sprint there carrying all my stuff, have a tin of beans when I get there, that'll sort me out

The helmet, boots and all the clothes I just found all fit me perfectly, what are the chances...?

I've got a plastic bottle and a hook, I caught a fish, John wilson has got nothing on me..

What's this? Some burlap sacks and some netting, get me a job on blue peter, check the full on ghille suit I just made out..

I stepped down 18" off a ledge, damn it my leg is broken..

I'll just light a fire inside this house, I won't be overcome by fumes it'll be grand..

I was out in the rain for nearly 90 seconds.. Hypothermia ensues.

I haven't eaten for nearly 40 mins, I'm starving to death.

Take your realism retorts and stitch some natty leather trousers out of them.

1) You can totally do that in real life, it is called "suturing". Is it something I would want to do untrained? No, but it is possible, and in said survival situation, probably the only way to stop serious bleeding.

 

2) Take a look at the stuff you find at a Heli crash: I am willing to bet some of it is some sort of "damaged". And firearm damage (jamming and FTF) and maintenance is something that is coming

 

3) Going to be fixed

 

4) Some liberties have to be taken. And you can totally wear clothing not perfectly sized for you IRL

 

5) I've done it before IRL. Hell, I've caught fish using a bit of string I twisted from grass, and a "gorge" made from carved wood. Hand-cast the line out into a river, let the fish eat it, then dragged it back into shore. No "fishing rod" needed!

 

6) You do realize that is essentially how Ghillie suits are made IRL, right? I was, however, completely against Ghillie suits for that exact reason: they take HOURS of work.

 

7) You can break your leg via twisting it "wrong" be stepping off a road curb. All about them angles and forces, my friend. There is a saying in Hiking/Wilderness Survival "Don't step on what you can step over, and don't step over what you can step around" Point being: it is often REALLY easy to injure your legs

 

8) Sure, if you built the fire in a closed room. Open the windows and open the flue on the fireplace. A work in progress

 

9) Time is accelerated, yeah? I The Devs have proposed different timescales, like "2 hours realtime = 1 day ingame". That would make both starvation times AND travel times seem much more realistic, wouldn't it?

[gibonez 3633]

It's a game about zombies.... how much realism could there be?? I play games to take a break from reality.

 

Having zombies or really anything else means squat when it comes to how realistic the game wants or intends to be.

 

If you play games to take a break from reality then perhaps Bohemia Interactive games are not up your alley, realism is the one thing they are known for.

[raigprime 47]

Unfortunately many player's idea of "enjoyable" is them having everything handed to them. There's so much watered down pablum in the gaming industry that if there isn't instant gratification then it's not fun.

 

Well, I disagree, I'm having fun. Staying alive is the game for me. Not killing, not getting all the lootz, just not dying. That's what makes it a Hardcore game and, I believe, is the direction the Devs are taking the game. 

 

I'm engaged by and have fun with the challenge, not the "accomplishments." Especially not the instant gratification kind of accomplishments that the Alpha has facilitated up to .55.