Does DayZ need aeiral transport?

[blackberrygoo 1416]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterNespesny/status/590840395334033409

Bam bitches , whoever said planes don't fit in the lore , bam bitches .

[tomtrustworthy 35]

Considering how clucking just walking or running is... being in the air sounds insanely dangerous. 

[hoog 6]

helicopters ftw

[Old_Crow_Whiskey 119]

I think airships create more problems than they will solve, which is why I voted no.

 

* First and foremost it will probably exacerbate lag and rubberbanding problems. In short I'm skeptical that the developers can make a clean helicopter/plane experience on a 50-100 player server using maps as large as this without severely dumbing down graphics and draw distances for everyone.

 

* Second, helicopters and planes are far more complicated than vehicles which would in theory require all manner of parts to be created for in game use. I think this could clog up the already overcrowded list of in game items for players to find. Chopper parts could possibly crowd out items more essential to the survival aspects of the game if incorrectly implemented. On the most basic level, just think of the massive fuel (gallons per mile) and ammo (anyone found 10,000 rounds of 7.62x51?) requirements for a slightly realistic helicopter gunship.

 

* Third, in a world where helicopters and airplanes exist, ground based countermeasures will also exist. Countermeasures could include AA guns, RPG rockets, stinger missiles, or SAM missile batteries. I haven't heard any plans for weapons like this, nor would I be excited to hear that Day-Z is becoming more like battlefield games by adding all these multi-use high powered weapons. Anyone remember all the RPG sniping from battlefield games? Worse still, if they introduce airships without counter measures everyone on the ground becomes insignificant, in effect subjugating and orienting the entire day-z struggle toward the helicopter/airplane endgame. 

 

* I don't think the developer team is thoughtful enough to implement some really nice details that would integrate a balanced and realistic helicopter experience. Handheld mirrors for signaling from the ground, scope/optics glint for accidental signaling, handheld laser pointers for distraction, buildings that can be destroyed (and rebuilt), and effective fuel and ammo resupply mechanics. Nothing about the dev team's implementation of ground vehicles has me excited so why should I be excited about airships?

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I think airships create more problems than they will solve, which is why I voted no.

 

* First and foremost it will probably exacerbate lag and rubberbanding problems. In short I'm skeptical that the developers can make a clean helicopter/plane experience on a 50-100 player server using maps as large as this without severely dumbing down graphics and draw distances for everyone.

 

* Second, helicopters and planes are far more complicated than vehicles which would in theory require all manner of parts to be created for in game use. I think this could clog up the already overcrowded list of in game items for players to find. Chopper parts could possibly crowd out items more essential to the survival aspects of the game if incorrectly implemented. On the most basic level, just think of the massive fuel (gallons per mile) and ammo (anyone found 10,000 rounds of 7.62x51?) requirements for a slightly realistic helicopter gunship.

 

* Third, in a world where helicopters and airplanes exist, ground based countermeasures will also exist. Countermeasures could include AA guns, RPG rockets, stinger missiles, or SAM missile batteries. I haven't heard any plans for weapons like this, nor would I be excited to hear that Day-Z is becoming more like battlefield games by adding all these multi-use high powered weapons. Anyone remember all the RPG sniping from battlefield games? Worse still, if they introduce airships without counter measures everyone on the ground becomes insignificant, in effect subjugating and orienting the entire day-z struggle toward the helicopter/airplane endgame. 

 

* I don't think the developer team is thoughtful enough to implement some really nice details that would integrate a balanced and realistic helicopter experience. Handheld mirrors for signaling from the ground, scope/optics glint for accidental signaling, handheld laser pointers for distraction, buildings that can be destroyed (and rebuilt), and effective fuel and ammo resupply mechanics. Nothing about the dev team's implementation of ground vehicles has me excited so why should I be excited about airships?

 

• Point #1 - I wouldn't be so sure about that. Aircraft are planned for the end of the year, long after the new renderer and other optimizations are taking place. Sure, if we had helicopters and planes in the game right now you might have some big issues for people, but that isn't happening. And no, they would not have to reduce graphics or complete render distance for everyone, as this is mostly clientside. What people see on the ground is not at all affected by those in the sky. It's just not a valid argument in response.
• Point #2 - Vehicles are already planned to be complex, and it's not like aircraft parts are going to be spawning in civilian houses or even the vast majority of locations you can loot. They're also going to spawn a very small amount of the time, so you won't be finding them more often than 'essentials'. Aircraft aren't going to be easy to maintain and it will take some time to find the proper parts and allocate the necessary fuel in order to keep them working. I'm also very doubtful that helicopter gunships or fighter jets are planned - at most I'd bet lightly armed utility/transport helicopters and short take off propeller planes will be the extent available base game.
• Point #3 - Not inherently. As I said before, I'm very doubtful that the devs want Mi-24s and SU-25s in the default game, so I'd also be doubtful that any missile launchers specifically meant to counter them are also planned. RPGs have valid use on the ground and wouldn't be negative as long as they're done right (not to mention they're not designed for combating aircraft.) I don't think any gamey 'RPG sniping' would make it in - have you ever tried using an unguided missile to shoot down a heli in ArmA 2? It's not easy. Helicopters and planes are supposed to be powerful assets, and can give any group the upper hand in a variety of situations, but they're not end all even if someone doesn't have any proper counter measures. Shooting at ground targets even with machine guns effectively is very difficult, and that will only be extended in the standalone, being that now ammunition is a lot rarer (and presumably won't spawn with the helicopter), and there are plenty more interiors and places you can go to avoid helicopters altogether. I think most of the endgame that people will be pushed towards is base building and group forming regardless of how powerful helicopters are - they're just another asset to be used once the previous is accomplished.
• Point #4 - First of all, why would you assume that? Glint has been discussed in the past and could be applied to both of your situations, laser pointers seem pretty unnecessary for distractions, I don't see how building destruction relates to aircraft (and actually, a lot of the revised building models do have their ArmA 2 wrecks still around. The destruction is wonky, and you can't rebuild it, but why would anyone anyway?), and resupply mechanics are going to be pinned into the game for ground vehicles anyway so I don't see how that's a problem.

Your last statement pretty much sums up the problem entirely - you have no interest in them whatsoever.

 

Also, calling them 'airships' is a pretty odd way of doing it as the common implication there would be that you're talking about blimps/zeppelins, not planes, helicopters, or any other kind of aircraft.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

I wouldn't like it to be possible to stumble along a helicopter with guns on it. Where anyone can find one and just fly along the coast killing everyone. Flying needs to be on a sim level. Somewhat challenging and slow. Like only first person veiw

Edited April 27, 2015 by methr1k2dop3

[nexdemise 16]

I want all kinds of choppers, including gunships.

Pretty much what the mod had. It's pretty sad that a standalone game, made from a mod, has less actually fun features than the mod it is based on. (Yeah farming and apple picking simulator doesn't sell the game to me).

 

Those things are hard to hide since you need to put them under open sky, unlike trucks that you can drive between trees and call them concealed. This makes them much more open to theft. Also, existence of choppers would make camps much more unsafe, since you can see more from above (could definitely use camo net or something).

 

But the teamwork aspect with aerial transport is what I really want to look towards. You are bunkered down in some tall building (e.g. construction site, or one of those processing centers), you're getting shot at, completely overwhelmed, you can't even poke your head out because it'll get blown off. You just cover the entry point to where you're at. In the meantime a chopper is heading your way to get you out of there. He gets there, lands quickly, all of you leg it to the chopper and are up in the air, heading back to safety. One of you gets on the door gun and shoot towards your enemies, though you're unsure if you hit anyone at all.

 

One of those things that would make the game epic. Not god damn zucchini growing turning it into an African Child Simulator 2015...

 

Regarding planes I'm towards a no, there is generally few places where you can land, and even fewer where you can start from. The topography of chernarus makes it overall unfriendly to planes, limiting you to airfields and few of the largest open fields (even though these tend to not be flat). Unless we are talking about vertical start fighters (e.g. F35), but these hardly fit the area.

Edited April 27, 2015 by NexDemise

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I wouldn't like it to be possible to stumble along a helicopter with guns on it.

Certainly not, but you'd agree that finding weapons you could mount on the sides for gunners to use, or even just being able to fire most guns from the sides, would be a good idea - no?

[FlimFlamm 509]

I want all kinds of choppers, including gunships.

Pretty much what the mod had. It's pretty sad that a standalone game, made from a mod, has less actually fun features than the mod it is based on. (Yeah farming and apple picking simulator doesn't sell the game to me).

 

Those things are hard to hide since you need to put them under open sky, unlike trucks that you can drive between trees and call them concealed. This makes them much more open to theft. Also, existence of choppers would make camps much more unsafe, since you can see more from above (could definitely use camo net or something).

 

But the teamwork aspect with aerial transport is what I really want to look towards. You are bunkered down in some tall building (e.g. construction site, or one of those processing centers), you're getting shot at, completely overwhelmed, you can't even poke your head out because it'll get blown off. You just cover the entry point to where you're at. In the meantime a chopper is heading your way to get you out of there. He gets there, lands quickly, all of you leg it to the chopper and are up in the air, heading back to safety. One of you gets on the door gun and shoot towards your enemies, though you're unsure if you hit anyone at all.

 

One of those things that would make the game epic. Not god damn zucchini growing turning it into an African Child Simulator 2015...

 

Regarding planes I'm towards a no, there is generally few places where you can land, and even fewer where you can start from. The topography of chernarus makes it overall unfriendly to planes, limiting you to airfields and few of the largest open fields (even though these tend to not be flat). Unless we are talking about vertical start fighters (e.g. F35), but these hardly fit the area.

 

Unless it is a bad ass helicopter, the extent of their arms should be the ability of people to shoot hand held rifles out of the doors. If mounted door guns happen, then they should be pkt/pkp at maximum strength,.

 

Regarding planes, you are very confused. The only reason why people could not land and takeoff everywhere in the mod is because they did not understand how to fly planes whatsoever.

 

It's not their fault though, the first time i flew a realistic plane i crashed it, and then again and again until i decided to actually to research about flight mechanics and what I was doing wrong. In DayZ once I had mastered the flight mechanics the entire map became available thanks to skilled landings and better understanding of what is required to reach takeoff speed in the shortest distance possible. The only plane that was limited was the C130, and even with that there were about 30 places on the map that are easily doable.

 

Planes are easier to maintain than a helicopter, and perhaps easier to fly also. I want to see realistically flying small-medium planes, and even more difficult to fly small-med helicopters.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Unless it is a bad ass helicopter, the extent of their arms should be the ability of people to shoot hand held rifles out of the doors. If mounted door guns happen, then they should be pkt/pkp at maximum strength,.

 

Regarding planes, you are very confused. The only reason why people could not land and takeoff everywhere in the mod is because they did not understand how to fly planes whatsoever.

 

It's not their fault though, the first time i flew a realistic plane i crashed it, and then again and again until i decided to actually to research about flight mechanics and what I was doing wrong. In DayZ once I had mastered the flight mechanics the entire map became available thanks to skilled landings and better understanding of what is required to reach takeoff speed in the shortest distance possible. The only plane that was limited was the C130, and even with that there were about 30 places on the map that are easily doable.

 

Planes are easier to maintain than a helicopter, and perhaps easier to fly also. I want to see realistically flying small-medium planes, and even more difficult to fly small-med helicopters.

The main problem with the C-130s is that they turned around on the ground at an abysmal rate, so you had a lot more choices for places to land but not take off. However, yeah, there were far more places a skilled pilot could land and take off from than just the three runways.

[sachad 1016]

None of the posts in this topic have convinced me that aerial vehicles would be a good addition to the game...

[nexdemise 16]

None of the posts in this topic have convinced me that aerial vehicles would be a good addition to the game...

 

Your opinion matters.™

[Baker. 1484]

Hey so are rocketships but I don't see those coming. Maybe its just me be I am having a hard enough time as it is fighting off guys in slow flatbed trucks. What do we do if someone goes zooming by in one? Do we all start carrying anti-air rockets? Or is being relatively invulnerable the point?

Heli's in the mod were a fucking chore to maintain, they weren't an easy thing to have, and they took forever to fill. You shat yourself when filling them one 20l jerry can at a time. And as far as invulnerable goes a few shots to the engine did this 

 

[Baker. 1484]

And tell me this doesnt look like fun 

 

[FrigginTommyNoble 61]

Mainly, I just think it will be a really fun and engaging goal to work towards. Flying around the map, seeing players running, heli crash sites, hordes of zombies, or even just the beauty of Chernarus. I just got done with an all-day epic run to find a V3S, build it/fuel it, and drive around. I had to run like 2/3 of the map before I finally found one, but I was fully torqued the whole time with anticipation. And I got that big dopamine shot when I finally fired the thing up and drove it. That's the kind of epic experience that makes sandbox games worth all the mundane bits like running, finding food, healing your sprained ankle cause you donked it off a big rock, etc. You need a long-lasting, repeatable carrot on a stick to keep logging in and risking your life, and this would be a big one.

 

Other plusses:

• It will make the aerial vehicle spawn locations an "area of interest" that will draw players to it. The map needs more "hot" areas to drive player interaction.
• The danger of crashing will make it harder for people with "end game" loot to stay alive. Once you're geared, the only risk right now is other players (or bugs), and we need more sources of death than just PvP.

Things I DO NOT want to see:

• Gunships: Strafing runs would be too brutal. There's absolutely no way to avoid a good gunner + good pilot, and with perma-death, that will just make people combat log the second they hear a flying vehicle.
• Aerial battles (see above). I mean, we're not playing Battlefield 1942 here.
• Too easy to get the plane/chopper running: There should be a lot of parts needed to get the vehicle running. Some rare, some common. This will make that carrot on a stick more engaging. It can also potentially create battles if certain parts only spawn in certain areas. The game needs more tactical areas of interest and choke points.
• Too easy to fly: If flying is too easy/forgiving, it won't have enough risk, and will just make looting the server uber ezmode.
• Too hard to fly: This is a tough one. They can't be too easy to fly, but if they're too hard, no one will do it bc of perma death. Risk/Reward has to be tightly balanced.
• Only one flying vehicle per server: There should be multiple plane/choppers, so that if you spot one, you won't be like, whelp, there goes the plane on this server, guess I'll head to another one.

[Noctoras 409]

I see it as primarily a dev time better spent elsewhere. There is still no element to the game apart from running, shooting, transporting. I don't see the urgent need to work on either of these. Better introduce different content, reasons to play. Beginning from zombies, ending in your imagination.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I see it as primarily a dev time better spent elsewhere. There is still no element to the game apart from running, shooting, transporting. I don't see the urgent need to work on either of these. Better introduce different content, reasons to play. Beginning from zombies, ending in your imagination.

Aircraft are basically DayZ's epitome of endgame content. Restoring a helicopter to working condition seems like a perfectly valid reason to play in my mind.

[Noctoras 409]

Aircraft are basically DayZ's epitome of endgame content. Restoring a helicopter to working condition seems like a perfectly valid reason to play in my mind.

 

Well, the thread asks for opinions - this is mine and that's yours, all good. I just wish it would become more than "just another Arma mod" and endgame is what you make of it. The more content, the more endgame possibilities. A heli is a heli and as such just another means of transport, opens no further options in gameplay in MY opinion. I'm quite aware that other people do think different ;)

[Yuval 221]

Yes, I am a pussy player. I had been in servers of max 5 players. One of the biggest achievements I had was repairing and refueling a V3S by myself (which broke 5 minutes afterwards :( ). If I could repair a chopper by myself...

 

Edited October 4, 2015 by StanleyWasHappy

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

I would imagine anyone in their right mind would use any aircraft for an attempt to get out of zombie/hostile survivor infested place, to look for better living conditions or remains of organized civilization, instead of staying inside an 225 square kilometer area just flying around and hunting other survivors and their campsites. But this is exactly how it's going to be when aircraft is added, and because of this, the whole idea doesn't make much sense. 

 

Still I voted yes with some reservations, something like one civilian helicopter and one civilian aircraft (such as Cessna) per server would be fun... but to have a lot of air traffic or air combat over post-apocalyptic country doesn't read like great gameplay or "realistic survival in a post apocalyptic world infested with zombies".

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Definitely yes, BUT only one civilian chopper per server that takes at least a little bit of skill to fly. Also fixing one up and maintaining it should be pretty difficult and time consuming.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Well, the thread asks for opinions - this is mine and that's yours, all good. I just wish it would become more than "just another Arma mod" and endgame is what you make of it. The more content, the more endgame possibilities. A heli is a heli and as such just another means of transport, opens no further options in gameplay in MY opinion. I'm quite aware that other people do think different ;)

Fair enough.

[KenoSkir88 181]

Couple of little birds with side benches per map would be sweet. Literally like 1 or 2 per server.