Using Online Map Cheating?

[lonesurvivor1 0]

I recently read an article about the dayzdb DayZ map. You can use it to find spots with a lot of nice loot such as weapons etc. This article brought up a certain point. It said that it is not considered a cheat of any kind. I'm not sure if I agree with that. If it gives you an unfair advantage(finding loot easier than someone not using the map) then maybe it should be considered a cheat. The dayzdb map is however a great tool. So what do you guys think?

EDIT: Here is the article about the dayz map

Edited March 10, 2015 by lonesurvivor1

[NinjaTurkey 255]

Please explain how you would stop this? Short answer, you cant. Experienced players have a mental map also, is this considered cheating? There is no way this could be stopped.

[sachad 1016]

It becomes rather obsolete after a while. I used to use this to get my bearings, but now I know the map well enough to find my way blindly.

 

Including the sweet loot spots, which aren't the same as the map suggests, by the way.

[zeotrope 76]

I don't like loot maps / heli-crash maps. Nothing should be assumed about DayZ but unfortunately, its really predictable. I kinda wish there was never a map made of Chernarus but that cannot be undone due to Chernaus' origin being from Arma2.

 

Imagine we get a new terrain for DayZ in the future. I would love if Bohemia did not provide a map and left it up to the general public to interpret the map for an online database.

 

Using online loot maps suck.

 

[lonesurvivor1 0]

Please explain how you would stop this? Short answer, you cant. Experienced players have a mental map also, is this considered cheating? There is no way this could be stopped.

 

I'm simply asking for an opinion. It's would be much more fulfilling to find explored and discover these spots on your own. But you're right. This can't be stopped.

 

It becomes rather obsolete after a while. I used to use this to get my bearings, but now I know the map well enough to find my way blindly.

 

Including the sweet loot spots, which aren't the same as the map suggests, by the way.

Yeah, I agree. It is a nice tool to get your bearings if needed.

I don't like loot maps / heli-crash maps. Nothing should be assumed about DayZ but unfortunately, its really predictable. I kinda wish there was never a map made of Chernarus but that cannot be undone due to Chernaus' origin being from Arma2.

 

Imagine we get a new terrain for DayZ in the future. I would love if Bohemia did not provide a map and left it up to the general public to interpret the map for an online database.

 

Using online loot maps suck.

A new terrain would be AWESOME

Edited March 10, 2015 by lonesurvivor1

[Evil Minion 943]

It's not a cheat but metagaming and you cannot stop people from doing so. In fact it's not that much different from a gameplay guide. It gives you an advantage but not an unfair one (a similar argument applies to voice communication).

 

The effects of the map could be reduced by introducing a higher randomness factor both in terms of quality - like minor changes in map layout (dynamic events, per server randomization of certain objects) - and quantity - a greater item pool and increased rarity to make it harder to find specific loot. But knowledge will still translate into advantages most of the time.

[NuckFuts 265]

It's not cheating, it's just immersion breaking. I consider myself to have been mighty lucky as I played before loot maps existed, back when DayZ as we know it now, was actually DayZ. Feels like forever ago :(

 

Twas a time when you launched the game genuinely fearful, but in hot anticipation of what would happen on your next roll of the dice. 

[lonesurvivor1 0]

It's not a cheat but metagaming and you cannot stop people from doing so. In fact it's not that much different from a gameplay guide. It gives you an advantage but not an unfair one (a similar argument applies to voice communication).

 

The effects of the map could be reduced by introducing a higher randomness factor both in terms of quality - like minor changes in map layout (dynamic events, per server randomization of certain objects) - and quantity - a greater item pool and increased rarity to make it harder to find specific loot. But knowledge will still translate into advantages most of the time.

I guess that makes sense, so the article is right. I like your ideas to do with dynamic events and the randomness factor in the game.

It's not cheating, it's just immersion breaking. I consider myself to have been mighty lucky as I played before loot maps existed, back when DayZ as we know it now, was actually DayZ. Feels like forever ago :(

 

Twas a time when you launched the game genuinely fearful, but in hot anticipation of what would happen on your next roll of the dice.

Yep, remember this? :P

Edited March 10, 2015 by lonesurvivor1

[DemonGroover 8836]

Its gonna happen.

 

The same could be said about TeamSpeak/Skype when you and your friends are on opposite sides of the map.

[jubeidok 495]

There will always be some people that insist on taking the easy route, cheating themselves of an experience. Oh well. I had a good time learning how to find myself in foreign terrain using the map and compass back in the mod. Two items I'll never have a need for anymore though as I've played so much by now it's impossible to get lost.

A new map a year or two down the road would be really cool.

[Rags! 1966]

It doesn't give you an unfair advantage since everybody has this tool at their disposal. 

[soulfirez 901]

Its not cheating but you are robbing yourself of half the experience. I wish i didnt know the map well enough that i didnt at pretty much all time know exactly where i am (at worst ill run for 2 to 5 min and then ill see something that tells me where i am ).

 

Exploration is a large slice of the fun, once you know the map you have to come up with other things to entertain(like what most people seem to do PvP on the coast or major cities like Novo)

[Kronons 98]

If you keep up with the status reports. The Dayz team is constantly working on the central economy. Eventually it'll make the map obsolete in the sense of showing were certain loot is. It was said that eventually the loot for each building would be random. Each building would be different classes and spawn different items. Sometimes items would spawn some times it wouldn't. It'll get more complex as development progresses. Now people are able to establish where certain items spawn, but I think eventually it won't be so easy. 

[Mancomb 131]

I pretty much only use the DAYZDB map as I would the in-game maps; that is, essentially as just a map, to get my bearings. I would use the in-game maps instead, as I try not to metagame if I can help it, but it's such a hassle to use the in-game maps at the moment, as you essentially have to place EACH ONE in your hotbar at the bottom in order to effectively use it (which there aren't enough hotbar slots for, BTW), and there is currently no way to combine any different sections of map you find, as there is no single map for the entire region; it's split into several different smaller sections for the maps. I'm hoping they make the in-game maps easier to use in the future, and add some way to combine them into a larger single map; until then, I'll probably keep using the DAYZDB map.

However, I DID just discover a cool 3D map of Chernarus that another member is currently developing; it's only in Alpha at the moment (appropriately enough :P), but it's already looking pretty awesome. Here is the thread link: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/220977-new-dayz-3d-map/

And here is the actual map link: http://dayz3dmap.ru/

it requires a browser plugin to be installed first, but it's safe, and the map is actually really cool to use.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Mancomb

[BleedoutBill 1636]

Only beginners use the map to find loot. Anyone who has been playing for more than ten hours knows which buildings spawn decent loot and which are duds. They also know that the loot tables change over time and they will visit the duds from time to time, to see if there have been any changes.

 

It takes a bit longer, but it doesn't take too long to develop a mental image of the map. I know that if I spawn in Svetlo, all I need to do is follow the railroad tracks to Novo and then onto Severo and I can then keep going all the way to the end of the line, passing several other towns along the way. By the time I run out of track I'll have decent basic gear and a compass and if I use the compass to head East from the railroad station, I'll find the NWAF.

 

Don't forget that there is an in-game map and it's not too difficult to assemble all of the pieces. The in-game map will teIl me all about the route of the railroad, as I have just mentioned, but it won't tell me about loot. That's OK, because as I have already mentioned, I already know which buildings to visit.

 

The area where the on-line map does provide an edge is in orienteering. Yes, the in-game map shows towns, roads, geologic features and elevations, but by using the on-line map I can determine that if I head NNW I will come to a deer stand at which point, if I head due West I will come to a clearing. At that point I can head WSW to find a town that I want to visit. In other words, the on-line map gives sufficient detail about my surroundings that it allows me to precisely find any location, without using the roads. This cuts travel time and it is generally safer when I keep off of the major arterys.

 

I can use the in-game map in exactly the same way, but it is not quite as detailed. Those who are not interested in the orienteering metagame can still find the same towns and locations and they arguably have a better time doing it, because they will likely have more interactions along the way.

 

So, am I cheating the game by staying off of the roads, or am I cheating myself, by missing out on interactons?

 

The answer is probably both. So I tend to use the on-line map most agressively as a new spawn, when I am most vulnerable and time and safety are the most critical. After I have basic gear, I tend to follow the roads more while I explore.

[krazypenguin 174]

Anyone who doesn't smash their own real life head against a wall*, thus giving themselves amnesia and therefore forgetting everything they know about DayZ whenever their character dies is a metagaming cheat.

 

 

*don't do this please - it's just a joke taken to an obviously extreme length to illustrate the point that when your character dies your new character is not supposed to be the same person and therefore you, as the person controlling that character, should not have any of the knowledge that you do. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by krazypenguin

[sneakydudes 278]

FYI if you read the article, you would have also read the part

 

 

 

"So what is so special about this map? Well it has almost everything you need to find loot in the game without cheating(I wouldn’t call this a cheat)."

[nexventor 429]

The way I see it is this. Experienced people know the map so goddam well and not for any sort of bearing or loot finding, my guys could walk from any town to any other place without the use of a map ingame or out. So let the players new to the game have it. At the end of the day this is a game, I am far more concerned about script cheaters, glitchers and lag, than I am about anyone using metamap or TS lol

[mercules 1290]

Most of the players who have spent any amount of time in game can be dropped nearly anywhere on the map and have their bearings in about 10-20 minutes. Once they know where they are they can typically go, "I need water and there should be a stream to the West." or "That town over there has a well near the East side." They can even do things like, "Oh, shotgun shells... if I head over there I should find 3 "gun houses" and have a good chance of getting a shotgun."

All the online maps do is allow newer people to get an understanding of the map that most veteran players already have. 

[blowurselfup 54]

I use a map on occasion and do not consider it cheating. 

 

Planning my routes of travel from point to point or if I get extremely lost.

 

If you want to collect the pieces and use the in game map...go ahead B)

[gibonez 3633]

Not cheating but it is kinda lame.

 

Only solution would be what RUST did and have a procedurally generated map thus rendering any meta game maps completely useless.

[emuthreat 2837]

This map discussion brings me back to the mid-nineties, when I was manually drawing maps of the raptors' nest for Ocean Games' classic 1993 Jurassic Park game on SNES.  I'm not sure metagaming was a word back then, but I did have a yellow pad of paper that I extensively used to keep notes.

 

In the case of using online maps for DayZ, it is most definitely not cheating; as everyone playing the game obviously has internet access.

In the sense of authenticity and playability, I find it ridiculous that the map is in so many sections, and so painfully cumbersome to use.

 

There is no explanation for how our avatars ended up in Chernarus, but are either that they were already there, or that they had just shown up.

In the first case, it would be reasonable to assume that the player had prior familiarity with the region, allowing for a "native" map screen where each life, you go around clearing out the fog of war, and making notes of your finds.

In the second case: Who goes to a foreign country without a decent local map and phrasebook?  Include a damn map.

 

The reason that such online maps exist, is that the game was made with this playability issue, that required the compiling of an easy-to-use map.  The internet has allowed for the sharing of these maps, saving the majority of players hours of bookkeeping that should rightly have been spent actually playing the game.  I would have started making my own maps by the third day of gameplay, had plenty of usable maps not already been available.

 

The reason that there are so many metagaming map resources available online, is that BI dropped the ball when trying to balance realism and playability.

Edited March 11, 2015 by emuthreat

[Lord Roro 19]

Using the online map was really funny when the compass was bugged :

 

"Oh it's Gorka ! Let's head south !"

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

"NWAF ! What the f.!"

 

*mosin shot*

 

You are dead

[jubeidok 495]

Its not cheating but you are robbing yourself of half the experience. I wish i didnt know the map well enough that i didnt at pretty much all time know exactly where i am (at worst ill run for 2 to 5 min and then ill see something that tells me where i am ).

Exploration is a large slice of the fun, once you know the map you have to come up with other things to entertain(like what most people seem to do PvP on the coast or major cities like Novo)

Ya, it makes me wish they didn't release new additions to the map bit by bit and instead kept it all internal until all the new stuff was complete, then releasing a huge new map update all in one drop. That way at least half the map would be all new to us. This would of then allowed them to swap the spawn points to the new half, allowing vets to feel lost again. For a while at least.

[ebrim 998]

It's lame and once you "learn the map" and you get less enjoyment from any sort of exploration, you'll probably regret that you tarnished your experience by using online maps. I largely know my way around but still build the in-game map and will check it for new places added and the like, or just to plan my route.