Shotgun nerfed

[Evil Minion 943]

The current damage per pellet (6 hit value) is actually a quite realistic value - a shotgun relies on hitting with multiple pellets to do great damage. 60 was - as already written - meant as a compensation for only firing a single pellets that still spread making it extremely inaccurate.

 

The sawn-off shotgun does have more spread and if it seems to deal more damage I blame one of the following reasons:

1. Because of the hgher spread you are more likely to hit a more vulnerable body part by chance increasing the expected damage sligtly (e.g. a normal shotgun would score 5 torso hits and 2 arm hits while the sawn-off would score 3 torso hits one arm hit and one headshot).
2. Hitbox desync is running wild at the moment so when shooting at someone you might not necessarily hit the hitbox responsible for damage. Now the higher spread might give you a higher chance of "accidentally" scoring a hit under such circumstances.

[Bororm 1156]

I hadn't played for a while, just started again yesterday.  As some one who uses the double barrel near exclusively I grabbed the first one I saw and used it a bit.

 

I think the issue now may be slightly less the damage, and more so the spread is just too wide again.  Here's a guy I shot (it's actually two shots), and while my aim wasn't the best for various reasons you can see that even at such a close range the spread is pretty wide:

 

Even then you can see at least two shots did hit him, albeit in the arms.  He ran away, seemingly fine for the most part.

I was also shot today by the pump shotgun, by a friend.  Besides ruining my shirt I basically suffered no damage.  Not sure how many pellets he hit me with.  He also unloaded the pump multiple times on a guy to little effect, I think the likely scenario being that the majority of the pellets had missed.

 

Basically, I guess there's two ways to approach it.  A spread similar to the current one, but increase individual pellet damage, or make a tighter spread and then the damage would probably be OK.  Personally I think the spread should be narrower.

 

Also, why the fuck can't they get the shotgun right?  It was seriously in a pretty OK spot at one or two points, and then they just constantly fuck it up.  Like every single patch they are fucking it up.  I don't understand it, set it right then leave it alone.

[-Gews- 7443]

Personally I think the spread should be narrower.

Well it should be narrower, they had it at over double real-life values (sawn-off, quadruple).

[Whyherro123 2283]

Well it should be narrower, they had it at over double real-life values (sawn-off, quadruple).

Damn straight, it just kind of faffs out of the barrel in a loose cone.

[hombrecz 832]

Ok so let's hope spread will be tamed and then it might be ok.

I mean previously shotty was probably a bit too good, but this situation now is the opposite, so again not good.

 

Anyway shotties should be damn dangerous up to atleast 50-60 meters.

We also NEED slugs rather soon, because why not?

 

Btw here is me hoping for bandolier. Would occupy chest slot for holster or tacvest, BUT it would allow for quick reloading of shotty by pressing R.

Ideally 1 shell per 1 pressing of R button.

Good idea or is it just me? O_o

 

Edited November 17, 2014 by Hombre

[soulfirez 901]

Ok so let's hope spread will be tamed and then it might be ok.

I mean previously shotty was probably a bit too good, but this situation now is the opposite, so again not good.

 

Anyway shotties should be damn dangerous up to atleast 50-60 meters.

We also NEED slugs rather soon, because why not?

 

Btw here is me hoping for bandolier. Would occupy chest slot for holster or tacvest, BUT it would allow for quick reloading of shotty by pressing R.

Ideally 1 shell per 1 pressing of R button.

Good idea or is it just me? O_o

 

I like the idea but have to ask why only 1 shell at a time when hitting R? i ask as i always found it strange when they added speed loaders for the shotgun as well it is the easiest gun to fully load with just your hands in one motion( call me queer but when i practice shooting clay i use a bum bag at the front to hold my shells and i just grab them 2 at a time to load in 1 motion its pretty easy )

[blacklabel79 949]

 

Also, why the fuck can't they get the shotgun right?  It was seriously in a pretty OK spot at one or two points, and then they just constantly fuck it up.  Like every single patch they are fucking it up.  I don't understand it, set it right then leave it alone.

 

 

Maybe they are not happy yet ? Maybe they might include another type of ammo ? Whatever it might be, iam sure the shotty will return to ist glory once more. PLUS, the nerf mentioned happens in .exp or .50 stable too?

 

Since i couldent find any differences. Used the saw off yesterday to kill People in svet, and the pump for some z cleanup to good effect.

Edited November 17, 2014 by {Core}BlackLabel

[Xbow 362]

Damn straight, it just kind of faffs out of the barrel in a loose cone.

I think the pattern is too loose at the moment as you do but consider that the 9  .330"  00 pellets launched from a 12 gauge shotgun have these energy values at various ranges.

...............all 9 pellets hit.............6 pellets hit............3 pellets hit............1 pellet hit.......... velocity

Muzzle     2025 foot pounds........ 1215 foot pounds.......607 foot pounds.......202 foot pounds......1300fps  

25 yards   1359 foot pounds........ 815 foot pounds.........407 foot pounds.......136 foot pounds.....1080fps

50 Yards  1098 foot pounds......... 659 foot pounds....... 329 foot pounds........110 foot pounds......957fps

75 yards    918 foot pounds......... 550 foot pounds........ 275 foot pounds........92 foot pounds.......874fps

 

The shotgun is no power house of destruction at ranges beyond 25-30 yards and because of the dispersion pattern at ranges beyond that it is ridiculous to assume that you are going to catch a man sized target with all 9 pellets.

 

what is a cylinder bore shotguns dispersion at 25 yards? for a 26" barrel its about 3/4 the width of a man facing towards you. And the pattern expands rapidly beyond that range. A shotgun pattern expands more than a simple cone would dictate. The reason is that every pellet is spinning on a different axis or not spinning at all. And normally being made of lead pellets are not perfect spheres. The end result is that its expansion diagram is not a cone but more like an elongated trumpet.

 

 

If you want to check a 00 pellets ballistic performance use these values

 

Ballistic coefficient  .045

Velocity  1300 feet per second

Weight 60 gains

interval 25 yards

max range 100 yards

zero range 30 yards

 

Ballistic Calculator  http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

Edited November 17, 2014 by Xbow

[StayAlive (DayZ) 169]

Edited November 17, 2014 by StayAlive

[Bororm 1156]

Maybe they are not happy yet ? Maybe they might include another type of ammo ? Whatever it might be, iam sure the shotty will return to ist glory opnce more. PLUS, the nerf mentioned happens in .exp or .50 stable too?

 

Since i couldent find any differences. Used the saw off yesterday to kill People in svet, and the pump for some z cleanup to good effect.

 

It's not that they are tweaking it though, it's that they royally fucked it up out of no where and then subsequently started trying to fix it.

 

It wasn't perfect when it was first implemented, but it wasn't terrible.  Then later they messed it up hard by causing it to shoot a single pellet for a single pellet's damage.  Afterwards they caused it to shoot a single pellet for a shit load of damage.  Then they messed with the spread and retained the damage, then they reduced the damage and they just keep fucking with it.  I don't see what the difficulty is, go back to the baseline and tweak it from there if they want, but the way they are screwing it up just indicates to me that there are some serious mistakes going on.

 

And not to mention at one point you couldn't reload the thing without shooting off all the rounds, because shells couldn't be ejected any more.  Perhaps most annoying of all was that since the double barrel wasn't/isn't a very desirable weapon for a lot of people that even with people making reports these issues early on went multiple patches without being addressed.  You could bet if it were the M4, mosin, or akm behaving absolutely ridiculously that they would fix that shit asap (early dispersion issues aside, which were a blanket problem of all guns).

 

This is not typical nerfing/buffing/tweaking, this is them fucking up lol

I'm not really mad about it, but I am genuinely curious how this sort of thing even happens.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Bororm

[blacklabel79 949]

 

This is not typical nerfing/buffing/tweaking, this is them fucking up lol

I'm not really mad about it, but I am genuinely curious how this sort of thing even happens.

 

 

I agree with your Points.

 

Alas it whould ne nice to hear from the DEV´s. But that rarly/never happens on this very Forum, sadly enough.

 

I LOVE shotguns and the bug with the saw off is super anoying sincen it practicly doubles your realod time.

Edited November 17, 2014 by {Core}BlackLabel

[Xbow 362]

I agree with your Points.

 

Alas it would be nice to hear from the DEV´s. But that rarely/never happens on this very Forum, sadly enough.

 

I LOVE shotguns and the bug with the saw off is super annoying since it practically doubles your reload time.

I love the sawed off double barreled shotgun a great deal, I love erasing zombies with it and saving 5.56mm. I was lucky enough to find four snap loaders so reload time isn't bad but I would still have to shoot it dry before reloading. Not having the ability to top off a double after firing one barrel is absurd. And another absurdity is that the snap loader remains in the gun as if it was a magazine. I have in RL a 18"  barrel Beretta Silver Hawk coach gun and I use rubber speed loaders to load it quickly. For pump guns Perhaps they should take a look at how Battlefield handles topping off the tubular magazine. None of this stuff should be a problem.

 

And determining where a pattern lands in reference to the target presents a simple problem what are the possibilities.  

1)Miss left,right, high, low. ( 0 pellets on target)

2)Partial pattern hit left, right, high, low  (4-5 pellets on target) 

3 Center pattern hit ( 9 pellets on target)

4)Long range Center pattern hit (6 pellets on target [dispersion]) reduced damage per pellet. 

....................•

.............•......•......•  

....................•

.............•......•......• 

.....................•

 

A simulation should emulate reality as closely as possible and I am sad to say the game doesn't yet do that with the double rifle, double shotgun, pump shotgun or long Horn. And rifled slugs should be introduced.

 

Beans sir?  :beans:

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

It wasn't perfect when it was first implemented, but it wasn't terrible.  Then later they messed it up hard by causing it to shoot a single pellet for a single pellet's damage.  Afterwards they caused it to shoot a single pellet for a shit load of damage.  Then they messed with the spread and retained the damage, then they reduced the damage and they just keep fucking with it.

[..]

I'm not really mad about it, but I am genuinely curious how this sort of thing even happens.

Maybe they were testing ways to optimize its use/performance, or it was effected by the hitbox issues we seen before..

[blacklabel79 949]

Interesting X. ( beans ofc )

 

I was wondering about the speedloader too. Its a nifty Little Addition and iam sure the slugs for the shotty might return at some Point.

 

So you just attach the speedloader somewhere and it pretty much negates the Need to put the slugs in by Hand right ? Indeed than it maybe should just go back to inventory.

 

What attchments could there be for the normal shotty? I saw pics of shottys with slugs on the side or under the gun ? But that wont make you load faster i suppose thats only for storage reasons right ?

[Xbow 362]

Interesting X. ( beans ofc )

 

I was wondering about the speedloader too. Its a nifty Little Addition and iam sure the slugs for the shotty might return at some Point.

 

So you just attach the speedloader somewhere and it pretty much negates the Need to put the slugs in by Hand right ? Indeed than it maybe should just go back to inventory.

 

What attchments could there be for the normal shotty? I saw pics of shottys with slugs on the side or under the gun ? But that wont make you load faster i suppose thats only for storage reasons right ?

The speed loader should return to the inventory empty after reloading and the player should be able to decide what he charges the speed loader with Buck or Slugs. But if you don't have speed loaders but you have loose shotgun rounds of both types in your pockets, your jacket, trousers, or vest the game should reload or top off the weapon with the type of ammo you had in there before simply by pressing R . The only time you should have to go to your inventory to load the double is if you want to unload what you have up the pipe and replace it with a different type.  I don't think that is too much to ask of our developers. As for external storage on the weapon how about this. 

 

[blacklabel79 949]

Right. So...i theoraticly COULD load 2 speedloaders with normal and 2 with bucket. Arrange them in a way i KNOW the game uses them and then go....shoot stuff :D

 

That whould add another tactical layer. Same with beign able to load the pull-action shotty with individual shells. Say...2 normal, 2 slug,2 normal...or any other combination.

 

 

As for external storage on the weapon how about this.

 

Yes thats what i was thinking....even better...making it craftable from: leather, ductape, leathersewing kit.

 

I LOVE the crafting part and i WISH they whould add a pletoria more of it....homemeade grenades..IED´s, Molotovs, all kinds of clothing/attchments...ect ect....

Edited November 18, 2014 by {Core}BlackLabel

[Bororm 1156]

The speed loader should return to the inventory empty after reloading and the player should be able to decide what he charges the speed loader with Buck or Slugs. But if you don't have speed loaders but you have loose shotgun rounds of both types in your pockets, your jacket, trousers, or vest the game should reload or top off the weapon with the type of ammo you had in there before simply by pressing R . The only time you should have to go to your inventory to load the double is if you want to unload what you have up the pipe and replace it with a different type.  I don't think that is too much to ask of our developers. As for external storage on the weapon how about this. 

 

Personally one of my favorite parts of using the double barrel is reloading it "manually," so I disagree about just being able to hit R without a speed loader.  I think reloading with R should only be reserved for magazines/speed loaders.

 

I do agree the speed loader should just return empty to your inventory though after reloading with it, and then you should be able to drag some ammo back onto it and have it ready to go from there.

[Xbow 362]

Right. So...i theoraticly COULD load 2 speedloaders with normal and 2 with bucket. Arrange them in a way i KNOW the game uses them and then go....shoot stuff :D

 

That whould add another tactical layer. Same with beign able to load the pull-action shotty with individual shells. Say...2 normal, 2 slug,2 normal...or any other combination.

 

 

Yes thats what i was thinking....even better...making it craftable from: leather, ductape, leathersewing kit.

 

I LOVE the crafting part and i WISH they whould add a pletoria more of it....homemeade grenades..IED´s, Molotovs, all kinds of clothing/attchments...ect ect....

 

 

Personally one of my favorite parts of using the double barrel is reloading it "manually," so I disagree about just being able to hit R without a speed loader.  I think reloading with R should only be reserved for magazines/speed loaders.

 

I do agree the speed loader should just return empty to your inventory though after reloading with it, and then you should be able to drag some ammo back onto it and have it ready to go from there.

I respect your comments, When I go shotgunning in RL with my 18" BBL Beretta Silver Hawk double barrel shotgun and I don't have rubber speed loaders I load loose rounds from my pockets.

 

 Operations

1)Crack open the weapon,

2) empty hulls eject,

3) Load one fresh round

4) load another fresh round,

5) close weapon .....

That seems like a good animation sequence. Its not as fast as using speed loaders but a hell of a lot faster and more representative of real life than going to your inventory and loading the weapon from there and having no ability to clear the weapon other than shooting it dry. So in my view pressing R would be the ticket. That with the caveat that it loads the type of ammo you had in it before you reloaded unless that type is exhausted and in that case it would load another type.

 

 I also have a single shot XP-100 chambered for .243 Winchester and I load that from a pocket full of loose rounds  so in that case pressing R should reload the weapon without going to your inventory if you have loose rounds in your jacket, vest or trouser pockets.  

 

{Core}BlackLabel I agree about being able to craft an external ammo supply system for all shotguns and the double rifle.  

 

"Right. So...i theoraticly COULD load 2 speedloaders with normal and 2 with bucket. Arrange them in a way i KNOW the game uses them and then go....shoot stuff :)

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Killing Zombies with a sawed off shotgun is a fine sport and a great way to conserve ammunition for your primary weapon. At present I have in my in game arsenal an M-4, a .45, FNX, a  7.62 x 51 Longhorn, and a 12 ga sawed off. 

 

Happy Hunting Guys :D