Why all the judgement?

[harteman 155]

Let me start off by saying I love this game, and I haven't had a gaming experience quite like what DayZ offers.

 

With that out of the way, I want to ask this forum and those who come here to post, why all the judgement of others play?  Everywhere I look in these forums, there are people arguing about how this game should be played.  I don't understand this, or at least to me, it seems unreasonable.

 

This game is a sandbox, yes?  One where we can do pretty much whatever we want, right?  If that is the case, all styles of play within the rules of the game are valid.  If all styles of play the game allows are valid, why do people resort to calling others "bad" at the game for doing what they like to do?

 

I myself like PVP, it is the reason I play.  To me, it is my end-game.  I have no problems overcoming what the game has to throw at me.  I have gone hunting, I've cooked steaks over a fire, killed many zombies, and I have looted for hundreds of hours.  I tend to play smart, and because of that, I don't lose to the game, unless it is due to things I have no control over, like bugs and glitches, or the occasional hacker.  The only way I "lose" is by getting killed by other players.

 

But I don't mind that.  I don't mind that at all.  I think it is the best part of the game.  What else is there for me, really?  I have been everywhere, seen everything, looted it all.

 

There comes a point where I have fully geared my character.  What do I do now?  I need for nothing, not ammo, armor, weapons, food...  What would you have me do now?  Sit and wait until I get thirsty or hungry?  Go hide in the woods, and wait?  For what though, I ask you.

 

Now, I suppose you could say something along the lines of helping fresh spawns out.  But you see, I already have done that, many times.  It usually goes badly for me somehow.  Turns out, most players in this game want to see you dead.  I have no problem with that, because it makes the game more of a challenge for me.  I already said I have no issues with staying alive in the game, when no other players are involved.  To me, PVP is the SOLUTION.  Right now, in this moment in time within the games development, PVE is easy as can be.

 

Now maybe for some of us, PVE IS challenging.  I dig that.  But I say again, it is too easy for me.  I require more than just that.  I find it in players who would test their mettle against mine.  You would judge me for this?  You look down on players like me?  Why?  I'm serious, answer me.

 

Just this week, I had what I consider my finest moment in DayZ.  I was so pumped after it went down, I couldn't believe how satisfying it was.  I don't get this from playing other FPS games, like BF4 or COD.  Never have never will.  Only DayZ offers me this:  My friend and I, we were in Cherno, looting it up, when we heard Mosin and AK fire from within the city.  We were at the fire station.  We exited and headed west.  50 meters out, my friend got shot, his leg broken and he unconscious.  I kept running, looking to get behind cover and find where the fire came from.  Once I reached cover, my friend regained his consciousness, and he saw where they were, they were just exiting the fire station, coming our way, looking for us.  Once I saw them, I made the decision to try my hand at throwing a grenade.  I pulled it out, pulled the pin, and cocked it back, ready to throw.  I waited until I thought they would be within range, then I threw it.  BOOM!  I nailed them both.  I was ecstatic!  Such a thrill, such a rush!  Two in one!  My first nade kill.  It was awesome.  I've never had experiences like this in Battlefield, or Call of Duty.  Only in DayZ.

 

But I am playing wrong?  I should play in a way that gives me less enjoyment?  Your way?  No thank you, I play my way.  You can play yours.  I am not trying to tell you what to do, I am telling you what I do, and why I do it.  I have fun doing it.  Is that so wrong?

 

 

[odin_lowe 3686]

Honestly the answer lies in the fact that we're human beings....

 

Why all the judgement around the world? Lack of respect is everywhere. People often rejects what is different from themselves.

 

It's only a game, but it's played by real people who have their own tastes, values and ways to see the world and others surrounding them. Why racism, intolerance of differences, sexism, bullying, and everything else that's fundamentally wrong? Because primitive humans...

 

I try and respect others as much as can, even if they have very different views from me.

[klesh 2423]

The problem is one style of play impacts other people's playing style disproportionally than vice versa; I think that's where the general dislike arises. 

 

Calling people names, or telling them they are a bad player isn't cool though, to be sure.

[Baker. 1484]

The worst is the 1st person / 3rd person debate. 

 

No matter how much you tell people it doesn't matter since 1st person people play on 1st person servers and 3rd person people play on 3rd person servers they still scream and cry like children that its  hack of some sort to play 3rd person.

 

example: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/212347-1st-person-dying-breed/

[Killawife 599]

PVP and KOS are two different things. Wheres the challenge in shooting someone who is totally unaware that a sniper lies on a hill 200 metres away? Wheres the challenge in shooting someone crawling around on the ground with his legs broken? Wheres the challenge in shooting an unarmed person after luring him into a house? Wheres the challenge in hacking someone to death that has only a scredriver to defend himself? Wheres the challenge in asking a bambi for a battery, then using this battery to power a defib and defibbing that poor bambi and laughing hysterically about it while cawing in russian?

 If its about challenge then people seem to go about it the wrong way.

[Pandema 352]

PVP and KOS are two different things.

KOS and PvP are by definition the same thing.

 

Player versus player is engaging in some form of combat against another player controlled character

Killing on Sight is engaging and neutralizing another player controlled character on sight.

[klesh 2423]

KOS and PvP are by definition the same thing.

 

Player versus player is engaging in some form of combat against another player controlled character

Killing on Sight is engaging and neutralizing another player controlled character on sight.

 

 

Its splitting hairs, but KoS is always PvP.   PvP is not always KoS.

[leviski 2152]

Well you see in real life, killing people is bad.

 

Therefore killing people in a game that is simulating an aspect of real life, means all those things in real life come along with it.

[Lumeria 27]

People are always going to disagree on play style especially on sandbox games such as DayZ, but the good thing is you don't have to listen to them. If you want to PVP or KOS or just hunt go ahead nothing is stopping you from playing that way. While people may disagree with your playstyle the beauty about a stand box game is that you can play that way as it offers the options to do so, regardless of what someone say just play the way that is most fun for you.

About people arguing, I have no issue with this. If people wanna argue about whose playstyle is better they can go ahead I will not stop them, and I probably won't get involved. What I do have an issue with is when people try to get the game changed to fit their play style. Granted the dev's will likely never listen to them it annoys me when people just want to game to go the way they want and not where it should go. Dayz should be true to itself and become what was Envisioned with its creation. It shouldn't bow to the will of people who want it to play a certain way. It shouldn't become a MilSim just because some people play like it is nor should it become an team death match game just because people PVP. Dayz should cater to those who want to play Dayz and the various play styles that entails.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Well you see in real life, killing people is bad.

 

Therefore killing people in a game that is simulating an aspect of real life, means all those things in real life come along with it.

Yep.

 

This is a sandbox so I judge killing if I want to... :P I'm not against that killing shouldn't be in the game. I just don't like that you can do it without consequences because IRL there's always a consequence. If you kill everyone there wouldn't be anything left except zombies and zombies are boring.

 

People have freedom in the game but people should use that freedom wisely.

 

But the game is still in alpha so I don't judge too much yet.

 

My overall experience is that people are way more friendly in standalone than in the mod. But I've only played 175h 95% of the time in experimental and beign killed by another player is under 10 times.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The worst is the 1st person / 3rd person debate. 

 

No matter how much you tell people it doesn't matter since 1st person people play on 1st person servers and 3rd person people play on 3rd person servers they still scream and cry like children that its  hack of some sort to play 3rd person.

 

example: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/212347-1st-person-dying-breed/

Well this is about one side trying to get the other to die.

[harteman 155]

Well you see in real life, killing people is bad.

 

Therefore killing people in a game that is simulating an aspect of real life, means all those things in real life come along with it.

Laws help with stopping killing.  Also, this is an apocalypse, something we can only guess about.  My personal guess would be life would not be as highly valued as it is now.  History can back me up on that, at least the changes in the worth of a human life throughout the years.

 

Kill or be killed.  Killing being bad is relative.  It depends on circumstances, and in the apocalypse you will find your circumstances have changed drastically.  Me personally?  My goal is to stay alive for as long as possible.  In my 700 hours I learned that if you go talking to everyone you meet, you aren't going to live long at all.  A hungry man with a pitchfork will kill you for your beans.

 

Also, war.  Judging by the amount of bullets sent my way on the regular, I would say DayZ is closer to a war than a trip to Wal-Mart.

 

Lastly, if resources become scarce, are you gonna starve rather than challenge a man for that can of beans?  It isn't enough for both of you, so what do you do?  Lay down and die?  

Not me.  I'm a survivor, I'm gonna survive if I have to pick between you and I.

[pillock 850]

What it comes down to is the balance of the game.

 

At the moment, people kill other people because there is nothing else to do that challenges them. That means the game is badly balanced, in my opinion (or rather, the gameplay balancing hasn't been worked out fully yet).

 

There is an important difference between people like the OP choosing manhunting and murder as their preferred playstyle, and people just killing everything they see because that's what you do in most other games and therefore by default that's what you do in DayZ as well. At this stage of its development, DayZ is not very good at presenting other playstyles to the average user. This is because survival is too easy, and the gameplay elements that would encourage cooperation between strangers are yet not functioning fully - or at all, in some cases. "Yet" is the operative word.

 

But there is also a danger of playstyles becoming entrenched, making habits difficult to change once there is a gameplay alternative to kill-or-be-killed gameplay. There is huge potential in DayZ, because of the tension created by not knowing if the player you've just spotted is friendly or is a psychotic killer. In order for this tension to be maintained in the long term development of the game, there needs to be players who are friendly - otherwise the tension is lost, because you know everyone else is hostile. And at the moment, there is a big imbalance of friendly versus hostile in favour of the hostile. This might become a problem in the longer term, as long-entrenched habits can be difficult to change, and this is probably why people try to 'encourage' certain in-game behaviour when they discuss it here on the forums.

 

Is it because the players base is 'a bunch of dicks'? Or is it because of the gameplay they are presented with? Even if upcoming new features will encourage more cooperation between players, it might be too late by the time they are implemented. Not killing people needs to be at least as appealing as a gameplay feature as killing people is - otherwise, there is no tension, and half of what makes Dayz great (for me, anyway) will be lost. If the developers want DayZ ultimately to be a mass deathmatch, then they're doing great; if they don't, then I tend to think that that they probably need to consider the gameplay balance sooner rather than later. 

[harteman 155]

Yep.

 

This is a sandbox so I judge killing if I want to... :P I'm not against that killing shouldn't be in the game. I just don't like that you can do it without consequences because IRL there's always a consequence. If you kill everyone there wouldn't be anything left except zombies and zombies are boring.

 

People have freedom in the game but people should use that freedom wisely.

 

But the game is still in alpha so I don't judge too much yet.

 

My overall experience is that people are way more friendly in standalone than in the mod. But I've only played 175h 95% of the time in experimental and beign killed by another player is under 10 times.

You say irl.  You are comparing modern society with the apocalypse, trying to transpose values.  I fail to see your logic.

[harteman 155]

What it comes down to is the balance of the game.

 

At the moment, people kill other people because there is nothing else to do that challenges them. That means the game is badly balanced, in my opinion (or rather, the gameplay balancing hasn't been worked out fully yet).

 

There is an important difference between people like the OP choosing manhunting and murder as their preferred playstyle, and people just killing everything they see because that's what you do in most other games and therefore by default that's what you do in DayZ as well. At this stage of its development, DayZ is not very good at presenting other playstyles to the average user. This is because survival is too easy, and the gameplay elements that would encourage cooperation between strangers are yet not functioning fully - or at all, in some cases. "Yet" is the operative word.

 

But there is also a danger of playstyles becoming entrenched, making habits difficult to change once there is a gameplay alternative to kill-or-be-killed gameplay. There is huge potential in DayZ, because of the tension created by not knowing if the player you've just spotted is friendly or is a psychotic killer. In order for this tension to be maintained in the long term development of the game, there needs to be players who are friendly - otherwise the tension is lost, because you know everyone else is hostile. And at the moment, there is a big imbalance of friendly versus hostile in favour of the hostile. This might become a problem in the longer term, as long-entrenched habits can be difficult to change, and this is probably why people try to 'encourage' certain in-game behaviour when they discuss it here on the forums.

 

Is it because the players base is 'a bunch of dicks'? Or is it because of the gameplay they are presented with? Even if upcoming new features will encourage more cooperation between players, it might be too late by the time they are implemented. Not killing people needs to be at least as appealing as a gameplay feature as killing people is - otherwise, there is no tension, and half of what makes Dayz great (for me, anyway) will be lost. If the developers want DayZ ultimately to be a mass deathmatch, then they're doing great; if they don't, then I tend to think that that they probably need to consider the gameplay balance sooner rather than later. 

I really like your take.  I believe it sums things up.

[tobias winfro 305]

People are never gonna agree on playstyles, some people just want to be left alone or are hoping to find people to survive with. Many like the OP come here for the gun play and thats fine, dayz adds weight to your decisions as in you lose everything when you fail and to me that is the addicting part of this game. However when the 2 styles meet it may end poorly for one and some folks get too attached to their gear which is a no no in this game. They may feel robbed of the time it took to get loot only to have their things taken as well as their life but what else is there to do in this game if you don't want to PvP besides loot up?

I play this game because I enjoy both sides of the arguement, I like gearing up, hunting, fishing, looking for chopper crashes but I also jump on some days and just want to look for trouble or jump on with a few clanmates and try to hold down a highly traveled area. No one is wrong for their choice of PvP or PvE and with the arrival of private shards PvE can have its place but being smug about killing is just childish and unnecessary.

I don't judge people anymore for the way they play because frankly they payed money too and come on this is dayz. What would dayz be without PvP? This game was built with it in mind otherwise all you have is a campingeatingdrinkingshoppingandrunning simulator

[Baker. 1484]

Well this is about one side trying to get the other to die.

Yes

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Well you see in real life, killing people is bad.

 

Therefore killing people in a game that is simulating an aspect of real life, means all those things in real life come along with it.

:rolleyes: BS

Self interest, Self interest never change. People don't play arma/dayz/shooters for its pacifistic gameplay. They don't rage because some idealistic hero BS, but the good ol' I got killed and wasted a lot of progress.

Substitute bandits killing you and PvP\KoS, with Game killing you and hardcore\perma-death modes, and you get the same\usual rage out there.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

KOS and PvP are by definition the same thing.

 

Player versus player is engaging in some form of combat against another player controlled character

Killing on Sight is engaging and neutralizing another player controlled character on sight.

Except that it's not.

 

KOS is PKPWWAOTATWETAA

Player Kills Player Who Wasn't Aware Of Them And Thus Wasn't Engaging Them At All.

 

There is no "versus" involved in being shot in the back of the head from someone 300m away you never knew existed. The story changes if you were in an airfield or something looking for a fight but killing bambi's and whatnot is just sad really. It's not winning it's being a loser if you can't take on people who can defend themselves you suck.

[Pandema 352]

Except that it's not.

 

KOS is PKPWWAOTATWETAA

Player Kills Player Who Wasn't Aware Of Them And Thus Wasn't Engaging Them At All.

 

There is no "versus" involved in being shot in the back of the head from someone 300m away you never knew existed. The story changes if you were in an airfield or something looking for a fight but killing bambi's and whatnot is just sad really. It's not winning it's being a loser if you can't take on people who can defend themselves you suck.

Except there is a versus, its a sniper versus some poor unaware schmuck.

Its the geared player versus the coastal.

Its the hunter versus the prey.

KoS=PvP. No matter how much you cry and call people names you can't change that simple fact. Sorry people don't feel your sense of ehonor.

[Bororm 1156]

Because people are ignorant and stubborn.  I wish people would be more tolerant, especially because it's a game where people shouldn't care so much.

 

In general, people need to focus on themselves when it comes to the game, and stop worrying about other people's motivations.  A sandbox requires a lot more responsibility for yourself than most people are used to from the majority of modern games, and I think that's where they run into trouble.  Worry about yourself (as hypocritical as that phrase is), and have your own fun, don't expect other people to share your same interests.

[Evil Minion 943]

Actually its not the same but KoS is a subset of PvP. PvP does not always imply killing or even shooting at other players. Holding someone at gunpoint robbing them is PvP as well.

 

The versus is involved where everyone knows that there are psychos out there that want to kill you for their own amusement. You are just like a gazelle that wants to avoid the lion having it for lunch. Thats one of the challenges you have to master if you want to survive. So instead of crying about "evil people" you should act accordingly.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Except there is a versus, its a sniper versus some poor unaware schmuck.

Its the geared player versus the coastal.

Its the hunter versus the prey.

KoS=PvP. No matter how much you cry and call people names you can't change that simple fact. Sorry people don't feel your sense of ehonor.

How about no?

 

Exactly the same as shooting rabbits, they don't know you're there is it still a fight?

If you don't know someone is there you're not against them in any way.

 

No matter how much you belittle people you can't make that be fact.

[Heman (DayZ) 0]

Can we judge broken controls and zombies?  That's what we should be judging.

[Evil Minion 943]

If you don't know someone is there you're not against them in any way.

Just that you should know - because you have enough senses to spot a predator* and enough brains to realize that there could be predators around. So if you get shot like a clay pidgeon you did something wrong or your killer did something right - in either way its "versus" just of the "predator&prey" variety. On kill the predator wins otherwise they prey is victorious. Luck also plays a role but thats true in symmetrical PvP as well.

 

*Only on first person servers - if you are playing on third person and run into someone peeking you are out of luck.