Forrest-gumpZ

[Whyherro123 2283]

Pipe dream for sure.  Dean is quitting because Bohemia wouldn't see eye to eye with him on direction, focus, and man-power.  To think that the devs will fix loot, add more content, bug fix. and then create an entirely new melee combat system is years out if at all.

 

My main point was why are you talking about breaking mechanics though with the tone that it is "wrong" when your proposed fix is a developer issue and not a player issue.  Instead of presenting an alternative solution to killing zombies in melee, you are just saying the method they use is an abuse of game mechanics and calling them out for it.  What would be a respectable way of meleeing zombies so that these players don't get negatively critiqued by you?

What is respectable about essentially exploiting the game in order fight off zombies and suffer no risk?

 

It is a "developer problem" because it has not yet been fixed, nor have zombies been improved (except for pathfinding) all that much. It is, however, also a "player problem" because many players gleefully abuse this in order to avoid damage, and, worse yet, instruct other players how to exploit this oversight. 

 

I've said this earlier: I put this (on a lesser level) under the same "exploiting game mechanics" category that I put "duping gear" and "third-person wall-peeking". It is abusing a broken game mechanic in order to get ahead. Plain and simple

 

As for alternate strategy, I've already suggested (what I do) is attack from behind, let them attack first and sidestep/dodge, or simply avoiding them and running away. I don't know about you, but I apparently lose zombie aggro as soon as they lose sight of me/get too far away. No exploiting broken mechanics there!

[Grundlesmuggler 41]

What is respectable about essentially exploiting the game in order fight off zombies and suffer no risk?

 

It is a "developer problem" because it has not yet been fixed, nor have zombies been improved (except for pathfinding) all that much. It is, however, also a "player problem" because many players gleefully abuse this in order to avoid damage, and, worse yet, instruct other players how to exploit this oversight. 

 

I've said this earlier: I put this (on a lesser level) under the same "exploiting game mechanics" category that I put "duping gear" and "third-person wall-peeking". It is abusing a broken game mechanic in order to get ahead. Plain and simple

 

As for alternate strategy, I've already suggested (what I do) is attack from behind, let them attack first and sidestep/dodge, or simply avoiding them and running away. I don't know about you, but I apparently lose zombie aggro as soon as they lose sight of me/get too far away. No exploiting broken mechanics there!

 

There we go.  Something constructive.  

 

So you want players to "wait" for a swing before sidestepping therefore allowing the "reset" you spoke of to happen naturally instead of buggin it by always sidestepping.  I understand.  

 

An admirable cause to fight for but almost as much of a pipe dream as a revamped melee combat system with updated hit boxes and new zombie AI.

 

I'll just use myself for example.  If I want to "follow the rules" I just backstep and swing forward for a headshot, sometimes the lag and positioning is not always on point so I miss due to clipping.  This method is 100% effective and not breaking mechanics; however, I figuratively couldn't care less about taking the extra 3 seconds per zombie to make sure I'm dotting all my i's so to speak.  So I either just run, or if I want to loot a whole city I round the zombies up and shoot them or circle around them and kill.  I do this for efficiency.  I already have to run everywhere without a bike (easy to implement) so why am I going to care about the way I kill zombies as long as it isn't a clear violation of the rules.

 

Of all the things the community does I feel like this is pretty low on the totem pole.

[Whyherro123 2283]

There we go.  Something constructive.  

 

So you want players to "wait" for a swing before sidestepping therefore allowing the "reset" you spoke of to happen naturally instead of buggin it by always sidestepping.  I understand.  

 

An admirable cause to fight for but almost as much of a pipe dream as a revamped melee combat system with updated hit boxes and new zombie AI.

 

I'll just use myself for example.  If I want to "follow the rules" I just backstep and swing forward for a headshot, sometimes the lag and positioning is not always on point so I miss due to clipping.  This method is 100% effective and not breaking mechanics; however, I figuratively couldn't care less about taking the extra 3 seconds per zombie to make sure I'm dotting all my i's so to speak.  So I either just run, or if I want to loot a whole city I round the zombies up and shoot them or circle around them and kill.  I do this for efficiency.  I already have to run everywhere without a bike (easy to implement) so why am I going to care about the way I kill zombies as long as it isn't a clear violation of the rules.

 

Of all the things the community does I feel like this is pretty low on the totem pole.

And I agree. This isn't that important. I just dislike the ease at which the community uses this exploit. Everyone gets all up in arms over duping, or 3PP-peeking, but something that can't possibly affect them? Abuse the shit outta it.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

What is respectable about essentially exploiting the game in order fight off zombies and suffer no risk?

It is a "developer problem" because it has not yet been fixed, nor have zombies been improved (except for pathfinding) all that much. It is, however, also a "player problem" because many players gleefully abuse this in order to avoid damage, and, worse yet, instruct other players how to exploit this oversight.

I've said this earlier: I put this (on a lesser level) under the same "exploiting game mechanics" category that I put "duping gear" and "third-person wall-peeking". It is abusing a broken game mechanic in order to get ahead. Plain and simple

As for alternate strategy, I've already suggested (what I do) is attack from behind, let them attack first and sidestep/dodge, or simply avoiding them and running away. I don't know about you, but I apparently lose zombie aggro as soon as they lose sight of me/get too far away. No exploiting broken mechanics there!

You're being too general , by your logic I can say what you are doing ( predicting the Zombies one move because you know he won't do anything else) is abusing game mechanics, you're counting on the zombie to do that same move over and over again and taking advantage of that small window where you know exactly what to do everytime (in your eyes this should be abusing as well , in any other persons eyes we see this and circling around the opponent as real tactic and not abusive what so ever , I mean it's laughable to think circling around something is "cheating" as we can do this to any slow and stupid opponent easily in real life without it being able to hit us simply because were smarter and faster) .

So id just drop this argument because the true answer lies in what others have said : zombies and melee are still a work in progress but regardless of that any way you can take down a zombie is a legitimate way ...

The only "abusive tactic" against zombies (lawl) would be using glitches and cheats against them , not a simple movement that anyone at anytime can do , just because the zombies aren't responsive enough to hit us most of the time while we are circling doesn't mean a thing because like I have stated earlier in this post and others have as well is that the zombies are a WIP and soon will (hopefully) have the ability to attack and move at the same time making your complaint against all people using this "abusive tactic" null and void seeing as we will still be circling them because that's just what you do when your fighting something and don't want to be hit, but at least they will be attacking more to ease your mind of this game being too unfair to zombies lol .

Oh and one more thing : zombies in every movie and game including this one , are never meant to be a threat alone. The reason being is because humans are , yes you guessed it smarter faster and stronger which enables us to maneuver around them quicker and also enables us to deduct when and where the zombies are going to attack so either way , whether you prefer circling the opponent or back stepping after predicting their attacks like you do , none of them are abusive tactics , just tactics .

[gannon46 788]

In almost every "zombie melee" thread, someone brings up the strategy of running in circles around the zombie, swinging as you go. This essentially makes you next to invulnerable, as they require a "recharge" as they need to reset their attack animation, and can't turn as fast as the player to do so. You can actually defeat multiple zombies like this, as it "locks" them in place and they cannot attack. Takes away quite a bit of the difficulty of the game, and makes zombies almost comical.

 

Now, if they had a faster rate of attack, or didn't require a reset to the animation, then, by all means, circle away.  But, for now, don't say "zombies are easy!", when the main strategy for defeating them in Hand-to-hand is little more than poor AI abuse.

I'm sure they'll fix the issue of them recharging the attack before attacking again. I hope they make them better eventually I'm not hating on folks who side step to me its just using your brain to get an advantage but I do want the game to be harder and since zed numbers are low I think they should get buffed somehow because IMHO they are just fodder. if you think about it if they are so easy to kill(which they are) how the hell did civilization collapse why are we the only ones who can sidestep and kill them it just doesn't make sense from an immersion/lore perspective you think for the zeds to have killed everyone or at least make the citizens government collapse they had to be a son of a bitch to deal with so here's hoping they get some ball growth hormone soon and become really nasty mofos which strike fear and dread into everyone they come across.

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

Wat.

 

 

People actually run from zombies in this game? Why? Pick up an item and kill the damn thing.

 

Or just lock them in a house.

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

Pipe dream for sure.  Dean is quitting because Bohemia wouldn't see eye to eye with him on direction, focus, and man-power. 

 

Source please.

[Grundlesmuggler 41]

Source please.

 

Type in Dean Hall quits DayZ in google.  I read about 9 articles on it, can't be sure which ones I did and didn't because they contained most of the same information.  He said that he hadn't "planned" on doing it this year.  Given that they didn't increase the size of the dev team until last month, and that he admittedly butt heads with his bosses and called himself a detriment to the project, I made my own inference about why.  Read the articles, then come back and source them for me.  Thanks.

[JPWiser 251]

So you're saying if zombies were real they would dodge attacks? I'm pretty sure they'd basically act as they would now, run a straight line to you and take a swipe.... And any sensible person would dodge said swipe strafe around a bit and attack. Just seems like common sense.

And to say, even in real life combat after you make an attack you also need to "reset" your animation, that's what counter attacks are. Cause once you commit to an attack you leave yourself open if said attack is dodged.

I still can't wrap my head around how you think this is a bug. zombies will always be stupid, and have a predictable attack you can work around. I don't think anyone speaking of easy melee means running around in circles as you speak of. If they do their idiots cause all it requires is a quick sidestep and counter attack.

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

Type in Dean Hall quits DayZ in google.  I read about 9 articles on it, can't be sure which ones I did and didn't because they contained most of the same information.  He said that he hadn't "planned" on doing it this year.  Given that they didn't increase the size of the dev team until last month, and that he admittedly butt heads with his bosses and called himself a detriment to the project, I made my own inference about why.  Read the articles, then come back and source them for me.  Thanks.

 

Not really going to do your work for you. And since it seems you are basing your argument on internet gossip I am just going ahead and call bs on your claim. Especially the part that they didn't increase the dev team until last month, which anyone having read the dev blogs will know is untrue.

[Grundlesmuggler 41]

Not really going to do your work for you. And since it seems you are basing your argument on internet gossip I am just going ahead and call bs on your claim. Especially the part that they didn't increase the dev team until last month, which anyone having read the dev blogs will know is untrue.

Man it must have been really hard to get to this point: https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&ei=AmA9VJOPKoWuyQSU84FA&ved=0CAkQ1S4#q=dean+hall+quits+dayz

 

I did not pay attention to the dates on some of these instances which I apologize for.  But my inference is solid nonethless.  It wasn't last month, it was in the spring.  Same time Dean announced he was leaving.  Make your own conclusions and do your own work.  I did mine.  My conclusion is solid.

[Jonah_Hobbes 171]

Some of those zeds can chase you for a LOOOONG time. They have a greater chance to stick with you if you're not double "w" running and/or running with a weapon armed. Put that weapon away, double tap "w", and put on the afterburners. Running up a mountain then down a steep hill is a good way to help prevent extended aggro from being a problem as any still way out there will likely "zombie bowl" die down the hill.

 

 

Running up hills just seems to make them run faster I've found lately

[jukaga 271]

The only problem I have with melee is how everything other than an axe isn't worth picking up or using. Why does a heavy pipe wrench take umpteen dozen blows to the head to kill a zed? Axes are doubly better as you can harvest wood for splints and fireplaces. Basically any melee weapon should be a one hit kill to the head, and no more than 5-6 to the body to bring down a zed. These aren't undead, they're living people and shouldn't be the hp sinks that they are.

[Accolyte 1727]

Pipe dream for sure.  Dean is quitting because Bohemia wouldn't see eye to eye with him on direction, focus, and man-power.  To think that the devs will fix loot, add more content, bug fix. and then create an entirely new melee combat system is years out if at all

 

That is untrue. What Dean said in the articles you're referring to is that he considers himself an idea maker and therefore wants to leave once all ideas are in the game (essentially upon reaching beta). The "not seeing eye to eye" part basically means that he's not afraid to argue with the higher ups to get what he needs for the project, which doesn't necessarily mean that they don't see eye to eye. Either way, I don't see what Dean leaving BI has to do with whether the devs will fix or implement anything at all.

 

Anyway.. you're strolling a bit off topic, so I'll ask you to stick to the topic and discuss these things in another thread.

[brazorf 46]

Uhm i've had some melee with another player today. I fear my hit issues may be strongly related to lag and/or desync, like if i'm hitting something on spot - but it's not actually there anymore.

Or his AI was broken ;)

[ChainReactor 922]

Uhm i've had some melee with another player today. I fear my hit issues may be strongly related to lag and/or desync, like if i'm hitting something on spot - but it's not actually there anymore.

 

 

That's most likely the case. The impact of every players personal connection to the server is one of the most important things to decide how melee feels. That's also the reason why the feedback on the different iterations and tweaks of the melee system range from "omg unplayable gtfo devs" to "ahaha killed 12 Z's at one fu zombeeerrrs"

[BeefBacon 1185]

What part of "placeholder AI for zombies" don't you people understand? Hell, what part of "early access" or "alpha" don't you understand? The devs have stated, several times, that zombie AI will be changed and improved. Even the melee system, as far as I'm aware, is a placeholder for a better system.

Edited October 16, 2014 by BeefBacon

[Judopunch 523]

Side stepping an incoming zombie attack is abusing their AI?  What part of hitting a zombie, moving, and hitting him again is breaking the mechanics?  There is no "block" button.  Are we supposed to just stand in front of them and have a stationary battle?  I'm not trying to flame you, I'm just trying to understand what you are getting at here.

Its abusing their ai because their ai is only superficial at the moment. Run to target. Stop. Swing at target. Repeat.

 

Their final implementation will be a bit more troublesome. 

But for now? Ya, A+M1 for the win.

[Dazinth 14]

Yeah, stop abusing those zombie mechanics.

 

Our characters make marathon runners look stupid for even trying, no one is abusing the run speed mechanics by running for miles and miles without stopping to catch their breath every few minutes right?

[emuthreat 2837]

Side stepping an incoming zombie attack is abusing their AI?  What part of hitting a zombie, moving, and hitting him again is breaking the mechanics?  There is no "block" button.  Are we supposed to just stand in front of them and have a stationary battle?  I'm not trying to flame you, I'm just trying to understand what you are getting at here.

Stationary battles worked out just fine for my first few toons.  If you can't win a stand-up fight with a brain-dead husk of a man, while yourself armed with a shovel, you might consider laying down in the ocean.

[emuthreat 2837]

 I am chastising the players. They are stating that zombies are easy to defeat in CQC, while the main reason they find them to be easy to kill is the fact that they are abusing an aspect of the games animation/attack mechanic.  A new player has no idea of these AI-breaking moves, and a lot of them get creamed by zombies as a result.

 

As soon as they discover how to effectively "break" zombies by abusing their attack AI/animations, even large groups of zombies become effectively a non-threat. Look at any videos of group play, even when without firearms, zombies aren't frightening, or limiting. At best, they serve as moving "alarms" for signs of player movement.

I wouldn't worry about strafe-spamming zombies.  Do you call it a fair fight when the zombie leaves his rendered body and hitbox in a village somewhere while chasing you through the countryside with his noisemaking/damage-dealing equipment fully operational?

[skypig 139]

Oh, right, except for the fact that when making a leaping attack both are capable of killing you in a single hit. And bulls don't run through doors and through obstacles. Bulls also don't magically become invisible and keep hitting you. Bulls also don't ruin your gear making you cold and having to search 3 more towns for a suitable replacement jacket. Bulls also can't follow you for many kilometers and kill you when you try to camp. Bulls also don't resurrect themselves a few dozen yards away only to re-engage and attack you again (even when you're not in their line of sight).

Abuse of zombie AI as you call it is fair, because zombies aren't fair. Meelee tactics used on zombies are exactly the same that you will be most successful with on actual survivors, so I don't see the difference, the zombie AI is actually better than some survivors I've faced. It's a cruel world, the name of the game is surviving.

exactly. if zombies are still a bit glitchy, hitting through walls, from 40 feet away, becoming invisible, agroing from 15 miles away... it's not really unfair, unsportsmanlike or anything of the sort for me to side step, circle and swing. it's a trade off

[Reg Park 160]

i learned this from Michonne which seems to work well. i just chop the arms and jaws off (with my sword) of two zombies and then use rope to keep them close to me as i travel, they stop trying to attack me since they figure out they can't bite anymore. this keeps the other zombies away from me thinking im dead too. you're welcome.

[R0B3RTF1SH3R 66]

I feel your pain ran from sevrograd to gorka, no agro loss, even hills away i could see them. then they re agro. keep running.

hilarious.

 

its because you look @ them.