Experimental Branch: 0.50 Discussion

[ChainReactor 922]

There have been times where it's been so bad...I have been staring at a "No message received..." notification by the time my game loaded upon starting DayZ.

 

I know an easy solution for your problem! You simply have to make sur...sur...sur...sur.........

 

No message recieved for 2 seconds

Edited October 27, 2014 by ChainReactor

[Rags! 1966]

I tried that but after a few atte

 

No message received for 11 seconds

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

Anyone else seeing way too much loot?.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnX2jChyba8

 

Yeah the "amount" of loot seems a bit over the top..however devs just don't make it as shitty as .49 please when you DO rebalance it.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Borges

[chompster 171]

Has anyone else been having this problem with shadows, sometimes they flicker on and off, sometimes they stay off. 

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=332263384

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=332264175

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=332265501

Put your shadows on Low. That works for me.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

Fix the experimental restart timers.

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

Please.

[durzos 23]

Problem with removing the respawn timers is that you can in some circumstances see your character stood in front of you when you log back in, this then makes item duping very very easy.

[DocWolf 146]

berries and apples give ~70 ccal. so you can eat them in emergency situations since they let you stay alive for~3-5 min longer. But i personally only pick berries, because they are always ready to eat. (while every second apple is rotten)

Apples and berries were introduced when there was a (very) different calories consumption system. With 0.49 and previous systems, foraging on trees/bushes was actually ok, even if the great abundance of canned food provided a more efficient way to avoid starvation. But with the harsher system we have in 0.50 looking for berries and/or apples is literally a waste of time - living for 3 or 5 minutes longers does not give you any sensible advantage, especially considering that not every tree or bush give you fruits or berries...and while you spend energy and time looking for them in order to live slightly longer all you're accomplishing is starving faster.

With 0.50 the only sensible thing to do with apple trees or berry bushes is looking for something on them only if they're literally on your path. IMHO foraging is just another feature interlinked with many other systems (hunger, health, loot economy) that was overlooked and wasn't updated.

Bohemia should metaphorically stop for a while and reorganize their ideas. The devs should decide what kind of core systems they want in and try to work on all the features linked to them. I mean, it's ok having stun batons and skate helmets, but shouldn't be other things a priority? Like, a sensible hunger/thirst system linked to a logic energy consumption system interfacing with a working loot economy? Or a proper item degradation system linked, again, to a working loot economy? I understand we're playtesting an alpha, obviously, but sometimes it seems that they're implementing a lot of good ideas poorly linked one to another.

Just my two cents/IMHO, obviously

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

It's been said over a million times. Art section are the ones supposed to make weapons, helmets, clothing, etc etc.  They work INDEPENDENTLY to the programming, balancing, coding etc etc.

 

So the fact that you guys see new weapons being implemented doesn't mean the programmers, the coders etc, aren't bugfixing, balancing, creating new systems.

Edited October 27, 2014 by DerrocK

[DocWolf 146]

I know how a software developing team works, thanks. I'm not thinking that the creation of a new infected NPC or the introduction of a skate helmet somehow steal resources to the development or fixing of core game mechanics...I'm questioning the priorities of the dev team in presenting their work to us - playing customers, non-playing fans, future owners of their game and so on. Is it really logic presenting a continue stream of minor/cosmetic updates and not addressing in a coherent way core mechanics? I'm not playing the crying game, mind you: I'm a simple customer asking questions.

 

If they produce something good, I'll buy it - exactly like I payed them for this alpha early access.

[kichilron 8550]

Is it really logic presenting a continue stream of minor/cosmetic updates and not addressing in a coherent way core mechanics?

 

That is how it's intended. The Alpha is supposed to be introducing new systems. These are going to be fixed in Beta.

[ChainReactor 922]

I'm questioning the priorities of the dev team in presenting their work to us - playing customers, non-playing fans, future owners of their game and so on. Is it really logic presenting a continue stream of minor/cosmetic updates and not addressing in a coherent way core mechanics?

 

 

The latest status report was about goals and progress of the central loot economy, earlier devblogs informed us that the player controller part of the engine is already in internal testing and that the Inventory UI is undergoing a massive rework. Aren't those core features of the game ?

[DocWolf 146]

That is how it's intended. The Alpha is supposed to be introducing new systems. These are going to be fixed in Beta.

 

No, an accessible alpha build (playable, for a game) is not created in order to work mainly on secondary aspects of the software while the core ones are revised over and over because they don't work. While I understand that an alpha is needed to test/introduce stuff and a beta to sort the problems out, an accessible alpha is not exactly the same as a closed alpha.

 

The latest status report was about goals and progress of the central loot economy, earlier devblogs informed us that the player controller part of the engine is already in internal testing and that the Inventory UI is undergoing a massive rework. Aren't those core features of the game ?

Yes. I'm not saying they're not working on core mechanics, nor I'm saying DayZ is unplayable or doomed to failure. I'm just saying that after a year of playable alpha (as in, not closed) it's jarring that there are still very important core features that seem to be incomplete even on the planning level. Loot economy/item respawning is not working as intended, and while the devs say they're fixing it there are no clues on where (and how) they count to arrive with that important mechanic. The various modifications of the loot system seems more a trial and error to find a good solution, not a trial and error in order to tweak an already researched and accepted idea. Same for infected NPC navigation and respawn system: they're working on it, but we can't see where they intend to arrive. On the other hand, the energy consumption/hunger system while not working as intended (as illustrated by the various tweaks of the latest patches) can easily be "interpreted": we can easily see where they want to carry this mechanic, and it's quite interesting seeing them working on it.

Edited October 27, 2014 by DocWolf

[kichilron 8550]

 No, an accessible alpha build (playable, for a game) is not created in order to work mainly on secondary aspects of the software while the core ones are revised over and over because they don't work. While I understand that an alpha is needed to test/introduce stuff and a beta to sort the problems out, an accessible alpha is not exactly the same as a closed alpha.

 

It seems as if you're trying to use software-development cycles to game-development. Those are completely different things.

 

It has been stated numerous times on this Forum (feel free to search for it) that we're currently in the phase of adding stuff, whilst the problems while be ironed out in the next phase.

[ChainReactor 922]

 

Yes. I'm not saying they're not working on core mechanics, nor I'm saying DayZ is unplayable or doomed to failure. I'm just saying that after a year of playable alpha (as in, not closed) it's jarring that there are still very important core features that seem to be incomplete even on the planning level.

 

Because those big features take the most time, i guess. Also trial and error is totally fine for me to some extend. In the end, DayZ is a multiplayer game. You can expect how players will use and interact with your feature, but you can't predict it. And the bigger a feature is, the more likely it is that you look how it works, discuss it, and re-plan it. In the end it's all to improve the mechanic. Also, as you stressed the word playable - thats actually a nuisance. In an open alpha, you have to fix bugs that you usually won't fix in a closed alpha and throw in stuff that you wouldnt add in a closed alpha, just to keep the players happy. A closed alpha would perfectly work with one gun, one character, one set of clothes and way less building models or any map improvements. Without players, the devs could really focus on pure feature adding.

 

By the way, Beans for you because you manage to discuss this topic in a calm, constructive manner. Thats hard to find on this forum.

 

kilchi might hurt us for derailing the Exp thread, tho :P

 

[DocWolf 146]

Thanks ChainReactor!

In order to prod the thread back on tracks, anyone have any comment on heatpacks? I was hoping in a poor man solution to the camping fire problem (as in, in Chernarus only one house every three town will have matches), but it seems they're not producing heat/heat only a little. Both times I've found them...yellow cold status before, yellow cold status after. It seems it wasn't modified by the packs, or it was modified only slightly.

Shouldn't those things be an in game quick/easy alternative to the more item-intensive camping fire?

[durzos 23]

Heatpacks seem far less common than matches atm, so if you drop on one luckily soon after spawning then great, but by the time you have got some gear then they are pretty much useless. 

Plus its hardly likely that a hand sized heat pack could come even close to saving you from hypothermia. They are designed to stop you getting cold hands not much else.

 

 

Edit:

I suppose finding enough of them you should be able to put 3 activated ones in your jacket slots and 3 in trouser slots and then keep you from going cold for at least an hour. But individually they should not be saving you from getting cold.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Durzos

[DocWolf 146]

Yes, I wasn't looking at the item from a realism point of view - rather from an in-game mechanic point of view.

Camp fires should be the best solution to avoid being cold, but there should be alternative options - less item-intensive hopefully: heathpacks, for example. The idea is similar to the food system: you can eat canned food (quick solution) or you can try hunting (item intensive solution). The latter is better, considering for example that meat helps you a lot when you need to heal, but the former is easily accessible and quicker to use.

Edited October 27, 2014 by DocWolf

[Yano (DayZ) 102]

Not sure if its been mentioned or not , but it would be nice if the Gas Stoves and Lamps , put off heat as well. Certainly not as much as a campfire , but after all it is an open flame and your character should be at least able to keep from freezing to death if huddled over one. PS Love the Heat Packs although they dont taste very good :blush:

[DocWolf 146]

Gas stoves should warm, indeed. Mayve something like camp fire >>> gas stove >>> heat pack >>> sunlight/jogging.

Gas lamps...not really sure about that. Why should they warm characters?

[Martmital 436]

Gas lamps...not really sure about that. Why should they warm characters?

 

Nice little hand warmer...

[artrath96 22]

Gas stoves should warm, indeed. Mayve something like camp fire >>> gas stove >>> heat pack >>> sunlight/jogging.

Gas lamps...not really sure about that. Why should they warm characters?

Just my two cents from many years of camping, gas lamps get pretty freaking warm. They are not nearly as good as a camp fire or gas stove, but they are nice to put your hands near and get some feeling back in them. Having them give off heat would make sense, but, just like with heatpacks, it really only should give you a couple more minutes of surviving, maybe enough time to find a matchbox or whatever you are missing. They can't save you from hypothermia.

[archamedes 238]

I decided to test the experimental servers just so that I could get to play with the new gear that stable has to wait for and oh my god its not for the noob. Firstly there are only about 5 3rd person servers and they are usually maxed out depending on what time you jump on. Secondly I haven't got to grips with when server restarts actually happen but from what i have been told they are on for hours, yet I do find i keep getting the "no message recieved" after about 20-40 mins of playing no matter which server I use, so I'm not sure if there is a connection issue there or not, but I do know that if you join a server halfway through tis cycle then you have to work for your survival.

Yes, you can't go into a few buildings and get fully fed and kitted out, you can literally check every single house in a town as big as berezino and find nothing, the odd ruined top here, the torch and battery there but yes it is damned hard.

 

What makes it even worse is this shoe degrading system at the moment. It needs some SERIOUS work, Spawning at the dock in berezino they start pristine, yet by the time you make it to the hospital at the top of berezino they are ruined, I mean come on, at least have it so you can get to the north west airfield and have them damaged. If i wanted to get from berezino to cherno I would need to get through at least 5 pairs of shoes.

 

My final gripe that really grinds my gears because I have died a few times from this problem is starvation while stuffed. How is that even possible? Food is hard enough to find, but you are literally fighting a losing battle by having it stuck on hungry and going redder by the minute but you find an apple and eat it and you get stuffed. I have gone through a whole bunch of canned goods and some fruit that should have gotten me bright green energized yet the more i eat the stuffed i get and the more hungry i become and the screen goes black and white and i die.

 

For the moment I managed to get myself to a stage where i have a shit ton of tomatoes from the greenhouse and a canteen but im on dark green for both food and water, I think it was because i jumped on this morning when the server had restarted and nobody was on, if I jumped on now, I would be dead within 20 mins. Well thats my little rant over with, I do understand that exp is unstable and experimental means experimental even more than the alpha stable, I just hope that when this build reaches stable its not as hardcore & some of the annyoing things listed gets fixed.

Edited October 27, 2014 by archamedes

[a_ruttle 199]

I do understand that exp is unstable and experimental means experimental even more than the alpha stable, I just hope that when this build reaches stable its not as hardcore & some of the annyoing things listed gets fixed.

You've responded to your own thread here, I often wind up reverting to stable when a particularly irritating exp build comes along, there's also a thread dedicated to Exp patch discussion [usually has good tips on how not to freeze/starve in current build] in the official section of the forum.

[snwh 24]

Personally I would rather go more towards the gameplay side of things, rather than realism on that.With heat packs either keeping you from dropping any lower on the heat scale than you are, or bumping you up one level.

 

Also, it had't occurred to me that where you store them might make a difference. Is that in game? Or is putting one in your backpack still able to heat you up?