General ideas about how the game should be

[MaxTheSurvivor 152]

Introduction: The goal of this thread is to slice the game in logical parts, each one can be discussed separately. If you want to discuss about a specific point just put the number of the paragraph you would like to discuss and try to argument your statements or ideas. As we discuss of the different aspects of the game the big picture should slowly appear and give us a good idea of how the different mechanisms interact to make the game more realistic and balanced.

 

Disclaimer: Sorry for my English, it's not my mother tongue and some sentences may be hard to understand. Do not hesitate to ask if a sentence is barely understandable. Players in the lines below will either be referred as bandits or as survivors, these are the only classes that exist in this kind of game, the rest is poetry.

 

 

1. Starting location:

 

It's likely that those who survived the infection are to be found in the city suburbs or small villages. The others have probably been eaten by the Infected or became infected before the game starts.

 

2. Starting gear:

 

Character starts hungry as it does now but player has a pack of crackers and a soda (this gives the player a chance to seek food by foraging in the forest or try to hunt animals and thus avoid going in the cities).

 

3. Food spawn:

 

Food loot very scarce, maybe one canned tuna every 10 houses (unless you're a survivalist IRL you only have a few cans in your home, just check in your home, you'll be surprised how little canned food you have, most of your food is eatable outside the fridge for about 2 or 3 days. Only crackers or stuff like that can be kept for a longer time).

 

Only place where food is abundant should be supermarkets where most Zs should be found patrolling the nearby streets (explanation: as the infection was spreading, people decided to go to the supermarket and pillage what was remaining before fleeing but failed thus joining the horde as they too got infected).

 

4. Infected behavior:

 

Low speed Zs roaming the streets in waves (if a loud noise is heard by the herd a part should go in the direction where the sound came from and stop after a moment if nothing eatable is found then stay here or move back in town where the smell of human flesh is impregnated everywhere). The idea behind that is that infected react by instinct as animals do, they are attracted by the smell of food. Infected that ate a player should be more passive as they had their fill already, making many scenarios possible like handcuffing a poor bastard with a broken leg and use it as bait while you go pillage the neighborhood.

 

5. Weapons availability:

 

Cities should spawn only civilian handguns (mostly .22 or 9mm) and have really rare shotguns spawning (not many people living in cities go for a hunt). Small villages should have a higher chance of looting shotguns as it is more common for people in the country to go out for a little hunt. Military guns should only be available in military facilities where civilian guns should be extremely rare or nonexistent (.22 in a military facility? WTF? Military don't need such toys, they have better stuff). Melee weapons should be spread with the same logic; splinter axe should only be available in villages or barns, firefighter axes should only be available in cities where there's a fire department).

 

6. Natural food resources:

 

Game should be more present in the country and in forests (this should force players to go hunt as food resources in cities would be very hard to get if not impossible to find).

 

Expected results:

 

1. Players spawn in a place where they have a chance to survive. They hear the moaning of the Infected downtown and this should push them outside the cities.

 

2. Starting with a pack of crackers and a soda represents what the survivors had in their homes before the apocalypse started. It's just enough to give them the possibility to choose if they want to risk everything looting the supermarket or to look for berries or apples in the country.

 

3. Scarce food makes KoS or death matches or CoD behavior highly unlikely in cities as there are not enough resources to camp the place. The fact that only supermarkets have food but are swarming with Infected would force bandits to be there in numbers, vast numbers in order to access the food. The 12 years old psychos would practically disappear from the game as they would be unable to survive long enough to harass players, those who will try to continue to play DayZ will have to either move in large groups forcing them to be organized or move away from the cities and try to find food somewhere forcing them to become more survivors than bandits. Banditry would become more realistic as desperate people would attack the others for food and not for fun.

 

4. Infected moving in herds and camping the cities would force the CoD 12 years old retarded to change their behavior in order to survive or look for another game designed for death matches and stop playing DayZ. That guy on the roof shooting with his Mosin will do that just a few times before he realizes that the floor below him is full with Infected that have been attracted by the noise of his shots.

 

5. Making it difficult to find guns will drastically reduce the possibility of death matches. Think it that way: it took me 2 hours to find a gun and 3 bullets in that damn city swarming with Infected, I won't start shooting like an idiot because I'll attract Infected if I'm in a city and if outside I'll probably need these bullets if a better geared aggressive player shows up. Same for the melee weapons, finding a knife in a house should be easy while finding a firefighter axe in a house should be impossible.

 

6. In order to survive long enough to either be a bandit or a survivor you will need to find food by yourself. No more city camping with 300 rounds shooting like a moron because you will simply need to eat or drink a some point and the little 5 minutes brake to go to the next house and find enough food for 24 hours would now be impossible.

 

Voilà for now, I have many other ideas but they're more an iteration or aftermath of what I wrote before, but I'm sure you have your own ideas, so share them with us.

[trankin 59]

I pray for the day that this game becomes like this. I want the fear of starving not oh let me run to that house and find a weeks worth of food/water.

[Baker. 1484]

Very nice post well done.

 

Inb4 tl;dr

[Trizzo 632]

Agreed. Hunger needs to be a core part of the practical and existential experience.

The inspiration for dayz has it's roots in starvation but this aspect of the game has net yet been realised or accepted in theory by a chunk of the community.

Disagree with starting gear, food etc. The hopefully combination of small game, berries, more abundant crafting, more tools, less gun spawns etc... Is going to lead to a situation where survival is intuitive and possible wherever you spawn. This is my understanding of where things are heading according to dev blogs etc....

Edited September 13, 2014 by Trizzo

[MaxTheSurvivor 152]

Hunger needs to be a core part of the practical and existential experience.

The inspiration for dayz has it's roots in starvation but this aspect of the game has net yet been realised or accepted in theory by a chunk of the community.

That's why I started this thread,  there's plenty of zombie games around and about a dozen survival and zombie games but none of them is as close as DayZ when it comes to realism. DayZ can be the next gaming experience only if the devs don't lose sight of the enemy.

 

I see a lot of threads about "We want more guns", well I don't, I don't care about new guns in game, this is not CoD, the goal here's is not to have a lot of guns, the goal of DayZ is to have a survival experience like no other game.

 

Before I purchased DayZ, I carefully checked the competitors, read about their weaknesses and the common point between these games was that they forgot to focus on the survival side of things. H1Z1 seems to be the most dangerous competitor for DayZ as Sony is behind, but Sony will probably put some marketing idiot in command and the game will end up being another arcade game for 7 years old just because it makes more money (I went on their forums, they're discussing about things like "Should dismemberment be in-game or not"). I don't want DayZ to be a failure like that, otherwise in 2 years from now nobody will never know that DayZ ever existed.

 

I want a game for adults, something dark, something challenging, not a game where the next patch will bring 10 new guns and see all the morons say "Hourra". Sometimes when I read topics in the suggestions forum I wonder if this is a NRA meeting or a forum about a survival game.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

That's why I started this thread,  there's plenty of zombie games around and about a dozen survival and zombie games but none of them is as close as DayZ when it comes to realism. DayZ can be the next gaming experience only if the devs don't lose sight of the enemy.

 

I see a lot of threads about "We want more guns", well I don't, I don't care about new guns in game, this is not CoD, the goal here's is not to have a lot of guns, the goal of DayZ is to have a survival experience like no other game.

 

Before I purchased DayZ, I carefully checked the competitors, read about their weaknesses and the common point between these games was that they forgot to focus on the survival side of things. H1Z1 seems to be the most dangerous competitor for DayZ as Sony is behind, but Sony will probably put some marketing idiot in command and the game will end up being another arcade game for 7 years old just because it makes more money (I went on their forums, they're discussing about things like "Should dismemberment be in-game or not"). I don't want DayZ to be a failure like that, otherwise in 2 years from now nobody will never know that DayZ ever existed.

 

I want a game for adults, something dark, something challenging, not a game where the next patch will bring 10 new guns and see all the morons say "Hourra". Sometimes when I read topics in the suggestions forum I wonder if this is a NRA meeting or a forum about a survival game.

Yeah, they really didn't need to add any guns after the initial few. The Mosin, IZH-43, SKS, Blaze 95, and Magnum are all we need. Get rid of the M4A1 because it's not realistic. And why the hell are they adding assault rifles when you should almost never have enough ammo to fill a magazine?

 

It's honestly stupid that we get any new guns, they're worthless and having a gun should be something you're proud of. I shouldn't be finding a gun every house, I should be lucky after playing for a weeks worth of time to find an old hunting rifle, that I will cherish to the grave.

[doublebrain 255]

Yeah, they really didn't need to add any guns after the initial few. The Mosin, IZH-43, SKS, Blaze 95, and Magnum are all we need. Get rid of the M4A1 because it's not realistic. And why the hell are they adding assault rifles when you should almost never have enough ammo to fill a magazine?

 

It's honestly stupid that we get any new guns, they're worthless and having a gun should be something you're proud of. I shouldn't be finding a gun every house, I should be lucky after playing for a weeks worth of time to find an old hunting rifle, that I will cherish to the grave.

 

Ye I would love guns to be more rare. It would scare away some of the "CoD kids" (as people like to call them) and create some more survival atmosphere.

I just bought 7 Days To Die and I'm surprised how hard it was just to find a pistol.. and I only got a few shots. The use of melee and improvised weapons creates lot of atmosphere.

 

I guess when crafting get bigger weapons will become more rare. We could create things like slingshots, selfmade grenades, maybe a selfmade crossbow. They should all be a good alternative for guns because of more easy accessible ammo and still decent damage/ other effects.

[Cpanther 221]

Agreed. Hunger needs to be a core part of the practical and existential experience.

The inspiration for dayz has it's roots in starvation but this aspect of the game has net yet been realised or accepted in theory by a chunk of the community.

Disagree with starting gear, food etc. The hopefully combination of small game, berries, more abundant crafting, more tools, less gun spawns etc... Is going to lead to a situation where survival is intuitive and possible wherever you spawn. This is my understanding of where things are heading according to dev blogs etc....

Yeah, i disagree with the starting gear too...starting with nothing feels more realistic, if an Apocalypse was to happen tomorrow i seriously doubt people will have some crackers and a bottle of soda in their pockets... actually, even the torch and battery is a bit weird, a wallet will be far more realistic.

[benedictus 160]

Yeah, they really didn't need to add any guns after the initial few. The Mosin, IZH-43, SKS, Blaze 95, and Magnum are all we need. Get rid of the M4A1 because it's not realistic. And why the hell are they adding assault rifles when you should almost never have enough ammo to fill a magazine?

 

It's honestly stupid that we get any new guns, they're worthless and having a gun should be something you're proud of. I shouldn't be finding a gun every house, I should be lucky after playing for a weeks worth of time to find an old hunting rifle, that I will cherish to the grave.

 

I honestly think that the excessive amount of food, ammo, guns, backbags, etc, is there so people can test everything efficiently. 

 

If things are like this after release, Im pretty sure people are going to get bored quickly and stop playing.

 

But I totally agree with the M4. Helicrashes are nice addition even though they dont make any sense, they make even less sense when they have US military loot on them.

[Tbird 1]

having only played for a week a thought comes to me. Please excuse me if this is already the case, but, when you are killed wouldnt it be cool that after maybe 10 minutes your old corpse reanimates. There is little chance of you seeing your old self but the idea would fit in with ethos of the undead.

Edit.

Seen this sugestion has been made already. To clarify, some ideas on Zombie viruses is that we are all infected but some of us are not killed by the virus. It lays dormant until we die then reanimates us. I agree that any held items would be dropped but clothes and backpacks and the items within could still be looted.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Tbird

[MaxTheSurvivor 152]

having only played for a week a thought comes to me. Please excuse me if this is already the case, but, when you are killed wouldnt it be cool that after maybe 10 minutes your old corpse reanimates. There is little chance of you seeing your old self but the idea would fit in with ethos of the undead.

Edit.

Seen this sugestion has been made already. To clarify, some ideas on Zombie viruses is that we are all infected but some of us are not killed by the virus. It lays dormant until we die then reanimates us. I agree that any held items would be dropped but clothes and backpacks and the items within could still be looted.

I quite like the idea, this could add new possibilities for those who role play: "Where are the antibiotics? Johnny had them in his backpack when the Zs killed him! F**k, the nearest hospital is at half an hour, we need to find him and get these back!".

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I honestly think that the excessive amount of food, ammo, guns, backbags, etc, is there so people can test everything efficiently. 

 

If things are like this after release, Im pretty sure people are going to get bored quickly and stop playing.

 

But I totally agree with the M4. Helicrashes are nice addition even though they dont make any sense, they make even less sense when they have US military loot on them.

I was being sarcastic. I don't agree with a word I made in that post.

[benedictus 160]

I was being sarcastic. I don't agree with a word I made in that post.

 

Well you were right about the M4 even though you just dont know it yet.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Well you were right about the M4 even though you just dont know it yet.

I don't think it's going to be removed, though. Sorry.

[doctajones 123]

I honestly think that the excessive amount of food, ammo, guns, backbags, etc, is there so people can test everything efficiently.

This. There is so much food because not much would get done with people constantly dying of starvation. Although, on some experimental branches, the obscene rarity of loot was a breath of fresh air (although the obscener loot jackpots was not, meaning much work is to be done).

 

In terms of guns, it may just be me but whenever a new gun is implemented, the spawn rate is tremendous.  This is probably to make sure people are using them and testing them, and will change eventually.  Much like how M4s used to spawn in police stations, then only military installations, and now only dynamic chopper crashes.

 

But I totally agree with the M4. Helicrashes are nice addition even though they dont make any sense, they make even less sense when they have US military loot on them.

It's a bit difficult to say it "doesn't make sense," seeing as there is little to no backstory in DayZ.  Anything could have happened.  And by the way, the helicopter crashes that spawn M4s are US made Blackhawks.  It is entirely plausible that in the midst of an apocalyptic event such as that present in DayZ, the might of the US military / NATO / UN would be present, regardless of location. 

 

having only played for a week a thought comes to me. Please excuse me if this is already the case, but, when you are killed wouldnt it be cool that after maybe 10 minutes your old corpse reanimates. There is little chance of you seeing your old self but the idea would fit in with ethos of the undead.

Edit.

Seen this sugestion has been made already. To clarify, some ideas on Zombie viruses is that we are all infected but some of us are not killed by the virus. It lays dormant until we die then reanimates us. I agree that any held items would be dropped but clothes and backpacks and the items within could still be looted.

The DayZ 'zombie' is a bit of a misnomer.  The zombies are not actually dead, but they are simply infected with a particular disease that makes them rot, degrade, and feral.  Us the players are immune to this disease, which is why we are 'normal.'  Thus, when players or the 'zombies' die, they are dead.  No reanimation.  This is confirmed by the devs.

Edited September 14, 2014 by doctajones

[omgwtfbbq 0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v52LIgsY8oA 

 

 

Home made body armor ideas

[Zurvivalist 300]

1. Starting location:

 

It's likely that those who survived the infection are to be found in the city suburbs or small villages.

Currently It seems we are all ship wrecked survivalist, mostly washing up on shore near boats 

Personally i would prefer we spawned randomly all over the map , maybe even by parachute to make it even more random.  

2. Starting gear:

 

Character starts hungry as it does now but player has a pack of crackers and a soda 
Disagree, Apple trees, gardening, trapping , fishing , all food needs are already easily covered with out ever needing to loot. 
Personally i would love to start out with a PET water bottle though ( multi use tool ) 

 

3. Food spawn:

 

Food loot very scarce, maybe one canned tuna every 10 houses

Agree 

 

4. Infected behavior:

 

Low speed Zs roaming the streets in waves 

Agree , I would much prefer the slower walking dead as long as player speeds was re-balanced  

 

5. Weapons availability:

 

Cities should spawn only civilian handguns (mostly .22 or 9mm) 

Agree for the most part on this .Loot should match its location to an extent 

6. Natural food resources:

 

Wild Game should be more present in the country and in forests 

Agree 

 

Personally I always thought ( and if we get to mod this some day I will make it so ) that players should be able to find highly used / damaged guns Everywhere . About as common as they are now. HOWEVER. ammo should be near impossible to find . And when found it should only be a few bullets at a time , with the exception of a few ultra rare full boxes .Guns with attachments should never be found fully built , 

 

Heli crashes ? always hated them . I would like to see them replaced with small camp sites-smoking fire-loot in tents or on the ground. Same with police cars, Just replace with a dead body in the middle of the streets. 

[Noctoras 409]

 

I see a lot of threads about "We want more guns", well I don't, I don't care about new guns in game, this is not CoD, the goal here's is not to have a lot of guns, the goal of DayZ is to have a survival experience like no other game.

.

 

check steam charts for how far more guns, less survival challenge has brought the game in the last months. Give it time and DayZ might just kill itself, if they keep a narrow focus on transport and weapons. People calling for more guns are the most vocal and a percentage of those, who haven't left - many people looking for a more than KOS challenge have looked elsewhere by now, so they won't comment on these boards anymore. I just don't see the guns guns guns way going very well in the end, but time and player numbers will tell..

[BeefBacon 1185]

I suspect food is common for now for the purposes of testing. I don't think CLE is configured yet either, so that won't help. That and hunting and foraging seems bare bones. I rarely see animals of any kind. On the rare occasion that I've actually been able to kill and skin one I've not been able to cook it - though I think cooking is easier now than it was a few patches ago.

 

It's sort of DayZ tradition to spawn on or near the coast. I'm happy to keep with that tradition. However, I'd like all players to spawn soaking with ruined or badly damaged clothes. Your first priority should be drying off and finding new clothes, not sprinting to NWAF. That'd also make tracksuits, doctor scrubs, etc actually useful to some extent. I'm not keen on spawning with food.

 

Running zombies are better. I'm hoping that when a stamina system is introduced simply running away from them won't really be an option unless you've got a big head start. You should have to shake them off, hide inside buildings, hastily barricade or try to fight them off. Of course ideally you'd never attract them in the first place, which is where stealth comes in.

 

Pistols should be way, way more common. That might not be super realistic, but pistols (and low-level rifles like the trumpet) should be relatively common when compared to Mosins, Winchesters and other weapons that can easily kill in one shot. The Makarov in particular should be pretty widespread. Magazines should also be far more common, but spawn without ammo. People can carry all the magazines they like, but without ammunition they're just wasted space.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I suspect food is common for now for the purposes of testing. I don't think CLE is configured yet either, so that won't help. That and hunting and foraging seems bare bones. I rarely see animals of any kind. On the rare occasion that I've actually been able to kill and skin one I've not been able to cook it - though I think cooking is easier now than it was a few patches ago.

 

It's sort of DayZ tradition to spawn on or near the coast. I'm happy to keep with that tradition. However, I'd like all players to spawn soaking with ruined or badly damaged clothes. Your first priority should be drying off and finding new clothes, not sprinting to NWAF. That'd also make tracksuits, doctor scrubs, etc actually useful to some extent. I'm not keen on spawning with food.

 

Running zombies are better. I'm hoping that when a stamina system is introduced simply running away from them won't really be an option unless you've got a big head start. You should have to shake them off, hide inside buildings, hastily barricade or try to fight them off. Of course ideally you'd never attract them in the first place, which is where stealth comes in.

 

Pistols should be way, way more common. That might not be super realistic, but pistols (and low-level rifles like the trumpet) should be relatively common when compared to Mosins, Winchesters and other weapons that can easily kill in one shot. The Makarov in particular should be pretty widespread. Magazines should also be far more common, but spawn without ammo. People can carry all the magazines they like, but without ammunition they're just wasted space.

Why?

 

In a rural area, which South Zagoria is, pretty overwhelmingly so, rifles and shotguns are far more common than a handgun, due to the fact that they are much more useful.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Why?

 

In a rural area, which South Zagoria is, pretty overwhelmingly so, rifles and shotguns are far more common than a handgun, due to the fact that they are much more useful.

 

Well, because they're less powerful. I thought I made that pretty clear. The only pistols I've ever used are the CR75 and the revolver. By the time I've found a pistol and the corresponding magazine I've already found a rifle that'll kill in one shot. Now I guess a pistol might make a good alternative to a rifle if I'm looting in a police station or something, but by-and-large a rifle is superior in every way making pistols pretty much obsolete. So pistols are quite rare and worse than weapons that are considerably more common. Bar a few specific examples I can't really think of any reason why I'd even bother. As such it seems sensible to make pistols, particularly the less effective ones, function as babby's first gun, even if one-shot rifles being more common is more realistic.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Well, because they're less powerful. I thought I made that pretty clear. The only pistols I've ever used are the CR75 and the revolver. By the time I've found a pistol and the corresponding magazine I've already found a rifle that'll kill in one shot. Now I guess a pistol might make a good alternative to a rifle if I'm looting in a police station or something, but by-and-large a rifle is superior in every way making pistols pretty much obsolete. So pistols are quite rare and worse than weapons that are considerably more common. Bar a few specific examples I can't really think of any reason why I'd even bother. As such it seems sensible to make pistols, particularly the less effective ones, function as babby's first gun, even if one-shot rifles being more common is more realistic.

Uh, yeah, that is realistic. And this game is "supposed" to be realistic, or at least "authentic".

 

Handguns are only effective at close quarters. That is, well, "what they do", what they are designed for. That is their "purpose" for being in-game, as a backup to a longarm, or for use inside a building. Not for "babby's first gun".

 

I see no reason to artificially nerf longarm spawn in order to make pistols more "usable". Pistols are situational, longarms are not. Balancing that isn't based on "realism/authenticity" is bad.

 

In an "actual zombie apocalypse" what would you rather pick up? The rifle or the handgun? As it should be in Day Z. 

 

Talk to basically any infantryman, and you will likely be told that they would much rather ditch their sidearms and carry either more grenades or more magazines for their primary. Handguns, in probably 95% of situations requiring a firearm, are next-to-useless. Talk to any self-defense trainer, and they will most likely tell you to pick up a shotgun instead. More intimidation, more lethality, more uses, fewer opportunities for FF (buckshot doesn't punch through walls as easily as jacketed pistol rounds)

 

So, basically, I disagree entirely. Rifles and shotguns should be almost overwhelmingly more common than pistols. Pistols should spawn either in police stations, Military Police checkpoints, or rarely in urban homes.

[Noctoras 409]

Well, because they're less powerful. .

 

You arguably have melee weapons for that purporse. Having a gun around every corner isn't really a solution either.