"Special build" at PAX Prime?

[scriptfactory 620]

I hope the "special build" is free from duping and unlimited ammo exploits... but it will probably be the two cars we already know about.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

This engine can't even handle the basic models and 2 zeds per city that it already has. I agree with you fog would be sweet but how in God's name can Dayz handle fog? We already get 25 fps when looking at a city.

Fog may come, but many, many months after they update the broken engine.

In Arma 3 the game gets fps boost because it has same kind of effect that view distance change has. So you can expect even more fps in foggy weather.

[hells high 676]

Yeah you will never catch me buying a PS4. I gave up on Playstation once 3 popped up.

 

Uh, why? The way you put that makes it seem like you expected them to keep supporting the PS2 lol.

 

I feel people will be very disappointed, it'll be running on a closed small scale 64bit architecture and have some new items or crafting or something. I don't think we are going to see Dean flying a scratch built Huey made from Lada parts with a DIY minigun that fires silverware, as some might want to believe.

 

 

This engine can't even handle the basic models and 2 zeds per city that it already has. I agree with you fog would be sweet but how in God's name can Dayz handle fog? We already get 25 fps when looking at a city.

Fog may come, but many, many months after they update the broken engine.

 

I always figured you didn't really understand how computer rendering or games in general worked by your comments but this is a gem. Don't get me wrong, your heart is in the right place, but please try to cut down on commenting about things you don't understand.

 

The reason you get such low FPS when looking at cities is because your game is trying to render all the things in that city and beyond it. What developers do to combat this is called optimization. Whether its systems that tell your game not to render certain polygons because they can't see them (which is hard with a game like ARMA or DayZ, because of the expansive detailed worlds), using LODs, etc. Optimization is not a focus of the alpha development stage. The focus of alpha development is putting in the major content and systems, fleshing out the game and seeing what works and what doesn't.

 

Fog blocks your view. There's a reason lots of old games had fog in the distance, because the hardware and software wasn't able to render long view distances at acceptable framerates. Fog blocks things from the player, meaning you have less stuff to render and thus the game and your system don't have to work as hard. Generally, higher framerates.

 

 

 

"Basic models", I wonder how Chris and his art team would react to that lol.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Hells High

[Deathlove 2286]

Uh, why? The way you put that makes it seem like you expected them to keep supporting the PS2 lol.

 

I feel people will be very disappointed, it'll be running on a closed small scale 64bit architecture and have some new items or crafting or something. I don't think we are going to see Dean flying a scratch built Huey made from Lada parts with a DIY minigun that fires silverware, as some might want to believe.

PS2 Had a WAY better library of specific games. While PS3 was MEH for quite a long time in its library. And no i don't realistically thats why i moved onto 360. It had a much better library near the beginning and after.

[Mark Darkers 151]

In Arma 3 the game gets fps boost because it has same kind of effect that view distance change has. So you can expect even more fps in foggy weather.

Indeed, most game engines / renderers do not render anything that is not visible, so if an object is completely occluded by the fog, it simply won't be drawn, this could increase fps allot in towns.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Mark Darkers

[Mark Darkers 151]

This engine can't even handle the basic models and 2 zeds per city that it already has. I agree with you fog would be sweet but how in God's name can Dayz handle fog? We already get 25 fps when looking at a city.

Fog may come, but many, many months after they update the broken engine.

please define "basic" models, as this vary's per system and per engine/studio. There isn't really such a thing as a 'basic' model because every model will have its own poly count limit (given by the art director). For instance player's and zeds lookalike, but the player is way more dense then the zed's are in polygon counts. Yet they both are 'basic' models...

[scriptfactory 620]

Indeed, most game engines / renderers do not render anything that is not visible, so if an object is completely occluded by the fog, it simply won't be drawn, this could increase fps allot in towns.

It's called occlusion culling and RV already does it. It might not do it that well (I am not sure) but this is definitely a feature of the engine.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Anyone knows anything about today's Q&A if there's any stream about it? Also there hasn't been anything about the build.

[SmashT 10907]

Anyone knows anything about today's Q&A if there's any stream about it? Also there hasn't been anything about the build.

 

Not really. It's not being streamed on the PAX Twitch channel (not in the schedule)

 

 

[Deathlove 2286]

Not really. It's not being streamed on the PAX Twitch channel (not in the schedule)

 

 

LOL his last response was just the best. XD

[igor-vk 909]

What a scam!!! They better stayed in Prag and kept experimental servers working!!

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Well time to wait for the next week then.

[Mark Darkers 151]

It's called occlusion culling and RV already does it. It might not do it that well (I am not sure) but this is definitely a feature of the engine.

I know how it is called and yes RV does this below world surface by default (one of the reasons underground bases can't be build yet). Also the view distance and object detail are all part of another culling process, however if I am right it does not use screen space Occlusion culling. An example would be the Umbra occlusion culling from the unity engine, in here static objects that are behind each other and thus out of view of the camera will be culled out, for dynamic objects (physics, players, etc...) the umbra system generates real time portals with position blocks where the camera can be and calculates real time occlusion from there on.

 

here is a visual example.

 

A room is represented with the player inside, on the left realtime occlusion culling is on, while on the right side it is off (currently what happens in DayZ and other VR related engines).

 

As you can see the result for the camera will be the same.

 

However this type off occlusion has a slight increase on cpu performance and is not worth the trouble for very small levels with low drawcalls (mobile games), however with the amount of objects that will be removed from drawing in the scale of Chernarus and DayZ, much more drawcalls can be saved and thus

a performance increase will happen instead of a decrease. The network bubble already kinda does this but purely for behind the scene code (network architecture, script udpates).

 

I think they would benefit by adding such an occlusion system, but whether it is easy to create it for their engine or not, is a question I can not answer.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

This engine can't even handle the basic models and 2 zeds per city that it already has. I agree with you fog would be sweet but how in God's name can Dayz handle fog? We already get 25 fps when looking at a city.

Fog may come, but many, many months after they update the broken engine.

 

Sometimes, I can't really tell if you truly are an idiot, or a really convincing troll.

[t1337dude 101]

Indeed, most game engines / renderers do not render anything that is not visible, so if an object is completely occluded by the fog, it simply won't be drawn, this could increase fps allot in towns.

 

Any games that use a fog effects to boost GFX as opposed to hide game objects for optimization don't work this way - fog only decreases FPS. In the typical situation, the object would have to be rendered within the fog, game engines aren't efficient enough to do otherwise. Then again, I only know few games that use fog to increase the graphical look of the game - but the ones that do all impact FPS when turning the option on.

[over9000nukez 199]

it better be good if their trying to hide it so much.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

It's called occlusion culling and RV already does it. It might not do it that well (I am not sure) but this is definitely a feature of the engine.

Occlusion culling is one method, with a major drawback: it's extremely expensive resource wise, to a point where you have to balance between losing fps due to too much occlusion culling calls, or losing fps due to too many objects drawn.

 

Occlusion culling used indiscriminately is as bad as too many objects.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[Mark Darkers 151]

Occlusion culling is one method, with a major drawback: it's extremely expensive resource wise, to a point where you have to balance between losing fps due to too much occlusion culling calls, or losing fps due to too many objects drawn.

 

Occlusion culling used indiscriminately is as bad as too many objects.

This depends on which occlusion culling technique you use. Because everything outside of the camera's frustum is always culled, everything under the ground mass is also always culled. And static culling is not that expensive, it is the dynamic culling that could get the overload you are mentioning. But with the amount of objects in DayZ I expect it to rather increase the fps than decrease it.

[Mark Darkers 151]

Any games that use a fog effects to boost GFX as opposed to hide game objects for optimization don't work this way - fog only decreases FPS. In the typical situation, the object would have to be rendered within the fog, game engines aren't efficient enough to do otherwise. Then again, I only know few games that use fog to increase the graphical look of the game - but the ones that do all impact FPS when turning the option on.

No, you are wrong. even if it is a gfx increase, objects that are to far away to be even recognized as shapes, could be occluded, a programmer would simply create a collider(trigger) sphere and everything based on the view distance still possible in the fog and outside of this sphere will be occluded, it won't be a feature of the fog itself (this was never the case anyway in any game at all).

Every old-school game used this technique. They created a simple checkup how far an object is and cull it whenever it is out of that range, this caused popping, they then added fog to hide the popping, everything that was still in the fog and also in the cull range, would look like if it was standing in the fog. This same thing apply's to the fog they are using. It would otherwise not make any sense to let their engine draw something that is not visible at all.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

This depends on which occlusion culling technique you use. Because everything outside of the camera's frustum is always culled, everything under the ground mass is also always culled. And static culling is not that expensive, it is the dynamic culling that could get the overload you are mentioning. But with the amount of objects in DayZ I expect it to rather increase the fps than decrease it.

We where talking specifically about occlusion culling, frustum culling is a given, arbitrary occlusion volumes however have to be handled more carefully (buildings?)

 

Even zone portals come with a non negligible cost.

[bonesnap 75]

it better be good if their trying to hide it so much.

I hope the build that should be coming out this Wednesday isn't delayed either, as a result of holding back goodies for PAX. -__-

Edited September 2, 2014 by bonesnap

[Mark Darkers 151]

I hope the build that should be coming out this Wednesday isn't delayed either, as a result of holding back goodies for PAX. -__-

Well, I don't think they will hold it back, not the whole team is at pax, only dean and a few representatives I think.

[bonesnap 75]

I don't think that's stopped them from delaying a build before (note the word "think", I can't confirm this).

 

Since they usually want something new and flashy for every PAX event..

 

..am I the only one who thinks there are too many PAX's? Lol. There were 3 PAX events in 2013. :huh: Yes, over different parts of the earth, but still a lot nonetheless.

 

non-related edit: Damn I wish I had PAX Sivir :p

Edited September 2, 2014 by bonesnap

[Mark Darkers 151]

I don't think that's stopped them from delaying a build before (note the word "think", I can't confirm this).

 

Since they usually want something new and flashy for every PAX event..

 

..am I the only one who thinks there are too many PAX's? Lol. There were 3 PAX events in 2013. :huh: Yes, over different parts of the earth, but still a lot nonetheless.

 

non-related edit: Damn I wish I had PAX Sivir :P

Yea there are allot of pax, but it's good, not every one can always make it to the bigger events, to expensive for traveling. :)