The DayZ endgame

[Parazight 1599]

Today I'd like to talk about the future of the game. Not the future of mechanics or updates, not the future of upcoming items, patches, or otherwise 'minor' details. Today, we're going to talk about the endgame. How will the game retain interest with the consumer? What is the longterm fate of DayZ? How will the game evolve once it's out of beta and onto the store shelves? Important questions that deserve attention and the answers will drive the success or failure of its lifetime on the market.

 

Let's start off by analyzing the words right from the horse's mouth as this statement is often taken literally and quoted as the entire focus of the game.

Welcome to the world of DayZ- a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which players follow single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can.

 

Some people seem to take this as the drive behind the development of the game. Attitudes and arguments have been formed around this statement and people interpret its meaning in a number of different ways. Now, personally, I think it's a clever tag line that will help sell the product. Players have argued that this game is all about player versus player combat while others point out that this game is a zombie survival game first with player interaction being an integral part of it. Dean Hall and BI may use this tag line to attract players but it's not something to base your gaming experience off of. It's cute, but ultimately the player base will decide what this game means and choose to make it what they want it to be.

 

Open world hybrid MMO. What does this mean?  It's a sandbox. A gaming sandbox is a large realm where sections are not instanced and players are not separated except by their own whims. It's a first person shooter. Hence the 'hybrid' part. There is no doubt at all that the game is filled with weapons, first person simulation, and all the major mechanics of any FPS. But it's also a MMO! The life cycle of whatever you're doing never ends. There is no 'finishing the game'. The environment involves multiple people in the same place doing stuff.

 

I think because the game defines itself by taking parts from multiple number of genres that the lines are blurred as to what it is exactly. This grey area of definition propagates heated discussion of how to act, what to do, and what to expect. Some people will tell others that if they want to shoot people then they should go play any number of Call of Duty style games. I mean, it's an MMO, not CoD. So, it's different enough from that type of game that players may try to make the gameplay atmosphere into something more typically MMO-ish and not a KOS wasteland. Others point out the striking similarities to first person shooters and insist it is another Battlefield, with a twist.

 

Well, I've played all the major MMO's out there and all the first person shooters as well. Call of Duty, Battlefield, WoW, Swtor, Ultima Online, and EQ, for example. I've seen it all. The common thread to all of them is player versus player action. I've been on the bleeding edge of hardcore mmo progression guilds. I've been in FPS squads. I have more hours logged into these games than probably the lifespan of many of the people who visit these forums. Based on my experience, logic tells me that DayZ will be a pvp fps first.

 

I predict (finally, a point to all this, right?) that the endgame to DayZ will be PVP, not surviving the zombies. It's a supercharged first person shooter. One of the best gaming incarnations possibly ever. Why will DayZ's endgame be pvp you ask? The answer is relatively simple. It's because like every single game out there, player versus environment is absolutely no challenge at all. Every MMO and FPS out there doesn't really provide any serious challenge to single player content. I'll say it again. SINGLE PLAYER CONTENT. I'm not talking about mmo raids either. That is not single player content. That requires the coordiniation of several people online to mechanics that are constantly updated. (new boss fights are put out because they get stale (and because of gearing stats, of course)).

 

Single player content across any game format/genre in the history of gaming gets stale because the challenge becomes easy.

 

Sure, DayZ will provide so much fun and challenge to new players. Surviving the zombies, figuring out how to not die versus the environment is fun. ...for a while. It provides a great product! Anyone who buys for the PVE will have a blast and it's a totally legitimate reason. But after a while, any gamer will figure out the game and surviving the elements will be easy. If you think that you'll be able to play this game for a year or more just surviving the elements then you're fooling yourself. Eventually not dying to zombies, rotten fruit, falling off ladders, etc. will become easy. You'll experience the hard lessons and learn not to die from dumb stuff. When that happens, what will you do?

 

You will require a new challenge. The endgame that has never been apexed in the history of FPS and MMO gaming is player versus player combat. You will seek out PVP after you learn how to not die from zombies or you will move on to a different game. There is nothing more challenging than competing against another human being. When the fabricated AI challenges are solved there will always be PVP.

 

Unfortunately for the PVE part of DayZ, it is totally mitigated by the absolute necessity to balance player versus player interaction. There is no game mechanic out there that will force you to switch targets off another player and onto a zombie.

 

So, I guess this post is a warning to everyone who expects the game to focus off of KOS/PVP and onto more single player surviving elements. Personally, I don't see how it's possible that the game will enjoy a long life without the main drive being player interaction. Read:pvp.

 

Please don't post what the developers want this game to be. Because it doesn't matter. The consumer will define the game, not the makers.

 

TLDR: dayz pve will get stale. It's inevitable that the game will be a pvp wasteland.

[bigfrak 116]

This is a good post but one thing, there will be server to soot all sort of gaming like RP servers witch all will have there own rules, PVE servers and so on. Sure at its core its a fps/pvp death match, but there will be servers for those who don't want none stop PVP.

[bigfrak 116]

One last thought is mods, and relay that will be what most of us play when they start poping up, look at the mod how many play the reg dayz mod, some but most are on epoch or overwatch or now overpoch, so there will be lots of option for endgame.

[TomatoSupra 207]

This is a good post but one thing, there will be server to soot all sort of gaming like RP servers witch all will have there own rules, PVE servers and so on. Sure at its core its a fps/pvp death match, but there will be servers for those who don't want none stop PVP.

 

Part of the game is "PVP". Its a survival game. This includes other people.

 

And on the note of endgame, i hope it never happens. The point is there is no point. Survival is, and will always be,  the only point

 

\thread

[bigfrak 116]

Part of the game is "PVP". Its a survival game. This includes other people.

 

And on the note of endgame, i hope it never happens. The point is there is no point. Survival is, and will always be,  the only point

 

\thread

ya i know part of the game is PVP, but there will be PVE servers, where you fight AI just like in the mod, as for endgame, the game ends when you die, adding more shit to do only makes it harder to do so, but not to clear on what your saying at the end there. Im not fighting with you, im just saying there will be servers and mods that will make all happy, those who want hardcore survival,those who want death match PVP, and those who want to RP, and those who want to just hang with others and kill AI witch will be PVE.

[TomatoSupra 207]

ya i know part of the game is PVP, but there will be PVE servers, where you fight AI just like in the mod, as for endgame, the game ends when you die, adding more shit to do only makes it harder to do so, but not to clear on what your saying at the end there. Im not fighting with you, im just saying there will be servers and mods that will make all happy, those who want hardcore survival,those who want death match PVP, and those who want to RP, and those who want to just hang with others and kill AI witch will be PVE.

 

I see what you are saying, but if you are looking for a role playing game where everyone trades and is happy, DayZ is not the game for you.

[bigfrak 116]

I see what you are saying, but if you are looking for a role playing game where everyone trades and is happy, DayZ is not the game for you.

I would not agree with you on that at all, some of the best dam times i had in a game was on the RP servers on dayz mod, Im not saying there is no PVP, but its more interaction and less kos than what you see now and on most other dayz mod servers. This statement dayz is not for you, its for everyone, is saying there is only one way to play dayz, witch we all know just ant true.

[bigfrak 116]

I think as it stands now talking about the Standalone yes your right, its nothing but hardcore PVP death match, and if you dont play it that way you will die, but long term with mods it will be a lot of option there for you, to find what game style you like.

[TomatoSupra 207]

I would not agree with you on that at all, some of the best dam times i had in a game was on the RP servers on dayz mod, Im not saying there is no PVP, but its more interaction and less kos than what you see now and on most other dayz mod servers. This statement dayz is not for you, its for everyone, is saying there is only one way to play dayz, witch we all know just ant true.

 

Dayz Mod. Yes.

 

 

Is this the mod? No.

[Parazight 1599]

Part of the game is "PVP". Its a survival game. This includes other people.

 

And on the note of endgame, i hope it never happens. The point is there is no point. Survival is, and will always be,  the only point

 

\thread

I don't think you understand what endgame means in this post's context. 

 

Endgame is not what you're doing right now with your character, now that he's geared.  Endgame describes what the veteran player does with his time in game.  Every game has an endgame.

 

Saying "survival is the only point" totally misses the point.  The point is, what will bring you back for more?  Why will you keep playing?

[Mullraugh 1151]

Then when PVP gets boring, you seek out an end to the "end-game" and do something that actually takes skill to do. Player interaction - Helping people. Any 3 year old can find a gun in this game and shoot people. It takes real skill to be socially comfortable with helping and talking to complete strangers who could easily backstab you at any moment. This is where the fun of DayZ comes from.

[bigfrak 116]

Ok so this post is just for the standalone as is, and no mods that will come off it? if thats what your saying than yes 100% Dayz Standalone as is= PVP deathmatch

[bigfrak 116]

endgame being not doing pvp and see how long you can live by talking with others, or helping, and lets not forget what keeps us coming back well most of us is our buddys in game that we play with as in most games.

[Parazight 1599]

endgame being not doing pvp and see how long you can live by talking with others, or helping, and lets not forget what keeps us coming back well most of us is our buddys in game that we play with as in most games.

This post is good.  A perfectly acceptable endgame alternative to pvp.  However, helping people and hanging out with buddies in game sounds like it poses no real challenge and would get boring before pvp would.  I'm not sure how it holds the consumer's interest.  Holding the consumer's interest is what Bohemia Interactive is probably most interested in, yes?

Edited August 1, 2014 by Parazight

[pillock 850]

Player versus player does not have to necessarily mean "combat to the death". There are all manner of ways players could compete against each other without limiting themselves to gunfighting, if there are game mechanics that allow it.

 

This applies to the real world as well: when people's survival needs are met, they look for ways to entertain themselves. There are two ways the game can go, as far as I can see, if the developers actually do want to avoid a permanent deathmatch (and they may well not want to):

 

1) make lone survival so cripplingly difficult that people are forced to set up in-game, in-server communities that require cooperation and maintenance in order to flourish and for its members to live long enough to actually succeed in reaching "late-game" content;

2) implement 'sub-games' and relevant game mechanics that allow players to come up with a variety of improvised ways to challenge and entertain themselves and each other without killing. "Sport", if you will.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Pillock

[Szticks 5]

The social aspect of the game will probably make adifference when it comes to endgame and longevity of the product. If you can band together, claim territory and create your mark on the world that will make people stay with the game, I suspect. Say for instance if it was possible to start up the Elektro power plant. It would ofcourse have to take an enourmous amount of time and hard work, getting supplies and crafting the necessary equipment. So you got power in Elektor, now what? Zombies walking into pole tears down powerlines, which would require dangerous expeditions into the wilds to fix them and what not. Rivaling gangs both from within and outside the Elektro community fight for control of the plant, or to destroy it.

 

If this game is to survive(pun intended) for any period of time it needs to have ways to make your own mark on the world, and ways for others to tear those marks down in order to create conflict. In essence it needs its own story to play out. Because we all come back for a good story, especially if it's your own.

[Solopopo 330]

I've played solely for the PvP since practically the beginning. The game is nothing without other players, and there's nothing Bohemia can implement that will change that. Staying alive without encountering other players is as easy as a point-click adventure.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Solopopo

[SwarfwgaHead 45]

I think the idea of there being any one specific endgame for DayZ is kind of flawed, it's going to vary from server to server and player to player. Personally I don't find myself drawn to PvP at all, even having clocked gross hours in the mod and a decent amount in the standalone. Sure there are people who'll get bored with survival and will play solely to fight other players, but I think a fair amount of the playerbase is interested in the game for other reasons. Personally I do just play to survive. I have no real aim to structure to how I handle meeting other players, I take it on a case by case basis. I can see why people might find it boring to just wander the wilds keeping yourself alive, but I personally enjoy it. Even just issuing yourself challenges like making your way from one town to another can be an ordeal under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

I've also taken to giving myself some restrictions in how I play, just to see if it makes the game more enjoyable for me. I've tried making a habit of walking for most of my journeying, leaving the run/sprint for emergency situations for example. It's something some might find boring, but it's a pleasant mix of peaceful and eerie wandering the woods and trails of Chernarus on your own. Playing in the middle of the night and relying on flashlights and lamps for guidance makes a big difference, and I recommend it to anyone who just uses the old gamma trick or refuses to play at night. And, if we ever do see the implementation of base building it will change things dramatically, we could see communities forming on server with people having their roles to fill, small settlements interacting with eachother (peacefully or not).

I think this game has the potential to be so much more than just a deathmatch with zombies shuffling around in the middle. And not just from a developmental point of view, but with that the community makes of it too. In the end it's still too early to say what the game will or won't be at the end of development but I'd guess theyre'll be something for everyone, it might just be a case of finding a server or community that suits how you play.

 

[TomatoSupra 207]

I don't think you understand what endgame means in this post's context. 

 

Endgame is not what you're doing right now with your character, now that he's geared.  Endgame describes what the veteran player does with his time in game.  Every game has an endgame.

 

Saying "survival is the only point" totally misses the point.  The point is, what will bring you back for more?  Why will you keep playing?

 

You can think it means whatever you want, but that doesn't change the real meaning.

 

Endgame content has always been what the goal in mind of the game is. Usually meaning max level, but for the sake of this game, it would be when you are fully geared.

 

Protip: its survival

[spartacusrex 88]

DayZ is what we make it, we chose our own gameplay style, we decide how each interaction will turn out.

 

That said, it takes far more skill to stalk and hold someone up than it does to just shoot them.

[Calvin Candie 189]

To the OP:

My answer to your question is that the goal of the game should be to survive as long as possible. Remember that counter on the web page of dayz mod when it first came out? The counter that stated average life time of a player. That was so cool. Simple, catching idea, excellent motivation to play - can I survive longer??

If there would be something that makes you adapt and change your playstyle often, it would

bring back that feeling of certain death waiting and fighting for you life with every new step. Wether it is randomizing the loot locations or making zombies a threat, I don't know.

If they manage to give us that feeling of being helpless and alone, urging to see another person then not being sure is he frendly or not...I'd pay hell of a lot more than 23€ to play that game!

Edited August 4, 2014 by Calvin Candie

[Irish. 4886]

There will never be an end game for a game that has no end.

 

 

 

Its up to each player to stay engaged and to find new ways of playing that keep them entertained. I can say this much..

 

After 1,000's of hours logged into the DayZ mods, and several hundred logged into the SA version.. I still have not even begun to get bored. No worries here. Modding will open up DayZ like a $20 bill opens up a hookers..

 

..well, you get it. ;)

Edited August 4, 2014 by lrish

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Oh look, another "This is the way DayZ is meant to be played" thread  :rolleyes:

[Evil Minion 943]

Instead of just fighting you could also try to achieve some fairly difficult goals that need a lot of work:

• map all semi-random locations (like helicopter spawns) on a particular server (exploration)
• set up a militia and keep a town pieceful (social)
• set up a trade network (social)
• light up a town and maintain the lighting (achievement)
• aquire and maintain a vehicle and use it according to its purpose - vehicles should require a lot of work (achievement)
• build a base and defend it (achievement)
• ...

So endgame content is basically content that requires player interaction - both friendly (cooperation) and hostile (attack/defense). In the end its up to the players but having some technical aspects that require cooperation to be used could make for pretty high goals for some players - which in turn would give others something to attack/destroy/steal - woul help a lot. I am thinking about generators, vehicles and similar things and their maintenance (made some posts in the streetlights and weapon suggestion topics) as well as lego-like building.

 

Keep in mind its still a dark and edgy setting  so there will be a lot of setbacks in the form of other players who get their fun from being the villains (or heroes*) trying to stop your projects. If (and only if) it requires enough effort to aquire and maintain them even things like helicopters or tanks are possible within the game without destroying the gameplay.

 

*If you plan to aquire a tank and terrorize the country its hardly a heroic goal and thwarting your effort might be a good thing for most players.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Evil Minion

[DeatHTaX 1217]

ya i know part of the game is PVP, but there will be PVE servers, where you fight AI just like in the mod, as for endgame, the game ends when you die, adding more shit to do only makes it harder to do so, but not to clear on what your saying at the end there. Im not fighting with you, im just saying there will be servers and mods that will make all happy, those who want hardcore survival,those who want death match PVP, and those who want to RP, and those who want to just hang with others and kill AI witch will be PVE.

 

PvE servers for endgame in DayZ are the stupidest thing I have ever heard of, IMO.