The DayZ endgame

[SFRGaming 718]

ya i know part of the game is PVP, but there will be PVE servers, where you fight AI just like in the mod, as for endgame, the game ends when you die, adding more shit to do only makes it harder to do so, but not to clear on what your saying at the end there. Im not fighting with you, im just saying there will be servers and mods that will make all happy, those who want hardcore survival,those who want death match PVP, and those who want to RP, and those who want to just hang with others and kill AI witch will be PVE.

How will there be AI soldiers to fight if they never code them hmm?

[bigfrak 116]

you misst the other post, we where talking about mods that they will make for standalone.

[Parazight 1594]

You can think it means whatever you want, but that doesn't change the real meaning.

 

Endgame content has always been what the goal in mind of the game is. Usually meaning max level, but for the sake of this game, it would be when you are fully geared.

 

Protip: its survival

Semantics.  Well, whatever definition you want to use for 'endgame', the topic remains the same.  What do you do when you're fully geared?  What holds your attention to keep playing? saying "Survival" is such a non-answer.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

PvE servers for endgame in DayZ are the stupidest thing I have ever heard of, IMO.

 

Guess whose gonna be whining like a little girl when environment elements get harder?

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Uuuuh what does that have to do with what i just said...

Nothing? Okay.

I just think the idea of running around in this game by yourself looting and whacking zombies with axes, farming and whatever would literally be the most boring thing you could do in this game

[Parazight 1594]

 

Guess whose gonna be whining like a little girl when environment elements get harder?

They wont get that hard.  Read the opening post in this thread. I posit that PVE will never be challenging.

 

If you disagree, fine, please provide some logic as to why.  Try using examples and critical thinking to support your view.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Parazight

[Karmaterror 982]

Uuuuh what does that have to do with what i just said...

Nothing? Okay.

I just think the idea of running around in this game by yourself looting and whacking zombies with axes, farming and whatever would literally be the most boring thing you could do in this game

 

That's true. no pvp servers in the mod were duller than watching paint dry. Some servers went to the other extreme and ran no zombies, so they could run more players lol

 

I do like to play the avoidance game a bit and as soon as persistence is switched on il be trying to entrench on a server somewhere. So I will want to avoid pvp when im running loot, the brilliant thing is that at any time I could bump into your crew....armed to the teeth ready to gun me down from various angles. That's what makes looting in dayz fun for me, at any time I could be sucked into a pvp game when that night I really just wanted a solo run to finish my campsite off :)

[Evil Minion 943]

Its true that "endgame" (I will stick to the word as I lack a better term) will resolve around player interaction.

 

However, the OP speaks of the "absolute necessity to balance player versus player interaction" - which is simply... nonexistant. Why? Because everyone starts out with the same loadout and has to deal with the situations and the gear he manages to find. Because people don't have fixed teams and may cooperate with or other survivors as they like. Because some might find their fullfillment in social or cooperative interaction rather than killing each other - but even for them the challenge comes in the form of other players - friendlies and neutrals that might aid you if you apprach them the right way, hostiles you have to defend against and even rivals who want to "take over your business" in one way or the other.

 

PvE will stop being a challenge at some point (e.g. when you are well equipped, healthy and got some allies to cover your back) and without villains even the greatest project will become mere work. Still adding some greater cooperative goals would greatly improve the game. The obstacles and challenges that make pursuing the goal fun and rewarding however, will be other players. Maybe because they enjoy hunting you, maybe because they kill you out of fear, maybe because they want to achieve their own goal and maybe just because mom called for dinner and they accidentally hit LMB with shock. Without them Chernarus would be a dull affair once you got your basic survival done.

[mercules 1290]

 

 

So, I guess this post is a warning to everyone who expects the game to focus off of KOS/PVP and onto more single player surviving elements. Personally, I don't see how it's possible that the game will enjoy a long life without the main drive being player interaction. Read:pvp.

 

Please don't post what the developers want this game to be. Because it doesn't matter. The consumer will define the game, not the makers.

 

 

Oddly enough if the code doesn't exist to do something then the player will never be able to do it. So what the developers want the game to be can very much influence what it is more than the consumer. Sure the game might go under if the consumer doesn't like that change, but the ultimate power as to what the game becomes is the developer.  You can pretend all you want that end users can influence the code... but they can't. 

 

"End Game" is a nebulous concept that doesn't really exist in a sandbox. Even in mods of the mod where you can build semi-secure bases  and have high end weapons you don't see an "Endgame" as all of that can go away in an instant and you can literally be starting over from scratch. Hell, half the fun is starting over from scratch and I frequently switch servers when I get too settled in. 

The developer image and goal is what the developers are going to code towards. Player requests can change that goal but I hate to tell you this, for every person saying PVP is the focus and only thing to worry about in DayZ there is one stating the opposite. So it will always probably be some form of a mix...

...still that will allow you to go on thinking PVP is the most important thing in the game to focus on and do so and others can focus on other areas so nothing really has changed.

[Parazight 1594]

....

The developer image and goal is what the developers are going to code towards. Player requests can change that goal but I hate to tell you this, for every person saying PVP is the focus and only thing to worry about in DayZ there is one stating the opposite. So it will always probably be some form of a mix...

...still that will allow you to go on thinking PVP is the most important thing in the game to focus on and do so and others can focus on other areas so nothing really has changed.

I'm not sure that I'm disagreeing with you here...  The devs can code whatever they want, sure.  My point is that PVP is the most important thing because there are no MMOs, in the history of gaming, that provide single player content with any sort of real challenge.  No amount of developer coding will change that.

[TomatoSupra 207]

Semantics.  Well, whatever definition you want to use for 'endgame', the topic remains the same.  What do you do when you're fully geared?  What holds your attention to keep playing? saying "Survival" is such a non-answer.

 

Semantics? Did that argument get you in a corner and the only way you you could try and squeeze out is to attack my credibility? Lawl.

 

And yes, if you read the description of the game, you will clearly see And i quote

 

From the Steam website.

"DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which players follow a single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can."

 

 

And i say again. /thread

[Parazight 1594]

Semantics? Did that argument get you in a corner and the only way you you could try and squeeze out is to attack my credibility? Lawl.

 

 

Wait, whut??  I'm sorry if you think I'm attacking your credibility.  I honestly don't think you understand my point.  Probably because you didn't read it.  The fact that you quoted the DayZ tag line indicates this as I also quoted that same statement in the first post.  I also addressed this tag line there.  You must have missed it. 

[TomatoSupra 207]

Wait, whut??  I'm sorry if you think I'm attacking your credibility.  I honestly don't think you understand my point.  Probably because you didn't read it.  The fact that you quoted the DayZ tag line indicates this as I also quoted that same statement in the first post.  I also addressed this tag line there.  You must have missed it. 

 

No need to be sorry, but in an argument, saying something like "Semantics" is just saying i am trying desperately to sound right, and i am using linguistics, not logic to make it sound right.

 

Anyway, back on topic. I was quoting this, because i think the coolest part of this game, is the fact that end game will end up as whatever people want it to be. Thats the best part. yes, that may mean PVP on some servers, but i have had a lot of great experiences on this game just fucking around with people.

[Parazight 1594]

No need to be sorry, but in an argument, saying something like "Semantics" is just saying i am trying desperately to sound right, and i am using linguistics, not logic to make it sound right.

 

Anyway, back on topic. I was quoting this, because i think the coolest part of this game, is the fact that end game will end up as whatever people want it to be. Thats the best part. yes, that may mean PVP on some servers, but i have had a lot of great experiences on this game just fucking around with people.

I am so jealous.  If you can have endless entertainment in Dayz and NOT pvp, then more power to you.

[mercules 1290]

I'm not sure that I'm disagreeing with you here...  The devs can code whatever they want, sure.  My point is that PVP is the most important thing because there are no MMOs, in the history of gaming, that provide single player content with any sort of real challenge.  No amount of developer coding will change that.

 

Your fallacy is:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

You keep going on how no game has ever provided any "real challenge" which you define very nebulously. You've posted your argument before and it hasn't changed at all. "No true gamer would be challenged by it." you stated, more or less, before.

[mercules 1290]

I am so jealous.  If you can have endless entertainment in Dayz and NOT pvp, then more power to you.

 

I can... has a lot to do with mindset. You've decided only PVP is fun so for you only PVP is fun. 

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Meh idk...i think that the main argument is that endgame pvp will still be the most engaging thing in the game for the majority.

I mean there's a reason that there are guns in this game and it isnt a giant version of "DayZ friends game" where everyone high-fives each other, shares saline bags, and do extreme farming and fishing. Its just not engaging as the player element that comes from pvp and the tension surrounding potential player encounters

[RAM-bo4250 213]

My number one goal in this game is to survive. My goal is not to PVP although that COULD be part of it. I have never killed another player but in self defense which if I think I am backed into a corner that is self defense. I TRY to not have any interaction at all with other players. Yes I know the counter, "well you could stay in the woods forever." But I don't. That would be boring as hell. I however do like exploring and taking risks. That means possible (probable) player interaction. That's where you the PVP player comes in in my adventure. You are a dilemma I have to face or stay in the woods forever. 

 

Now to my opinion. Yes I have one and yada-yada-yada. I think the PVP mindset prevents you from exploring some of the real potential of this game. Don't take this to mean you or most players do this but I have seen it alot. Especially from streamers. You spawn in. You head into a high loot area running around like you don't care about nothing. After all you're really not going to die. You may even server hop low pop servers until you're armed to the teeth then go looking for a fight. You're gonna hate any real threatening zombies because they are gonna spoil your playstyle. But weak, who cares about the zombies, ruins my gaming experience. In the explanation is given that this is supposed to be a survival game. Don't get me wrong, I want you in there because you are part of the threatening environment, but don't complain because the environment elements are made stronger. 

 

Try, for once, to have a survival instinct. Put it in your mind that you only have one life. Make decisions from that point of view. That point of view is what I (and others) believe was Dean Rocket's goal. After all he thought of it while on a survival ex and it is described as such in the introduction to the game.

 

Bottom line though, play how you want. You paid your hard earned money for it. You also make my game more interesting.

 

But please, please, please don't crap on my point of view. Don't throw insults at my playstyle and I won't throw insults at yours.

[Evil Minion 943]

I think "endgame" is supposed to mean the phase of the game where you stop worrying about your basic survival (food, drink, medical supplies, clothing, gear and ammo) and the PvE part ceases to be challenging.

 

So making PvE harder, more challenging etc. will only postpone "endgame" and maybe even prevent players from reaching it for a long period of time. However, at some point people will probably raise above the environmental challanges - be it alone or by cooperation - and from this point there is only PvP (which does not mean you cannot be friendly and cooperative but your main challenges will come from other players).

 

In short: "endgame" does not include challenging PvE - as long as PvE remains challenging you did not reach "endgame" - by definition.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I think "endgame" is supposed to mean the phase of the game where you stop worrying about your basic survival (food, drink, medical supplies, clothing, gear and ammo) and the PvE part ceases to be challenging.

 

 

PvE should never cease to be challenging. If it stops becoming challenging you basically have a delayed COD game. I want what is in the intro to the game. A survival game with all the elements - environment, zombies, and yes KOSers. All elements remain challenging. The beginning game - survival. The middle game - survival. The endgame - survival. Why does everyone want a game like the rest? 

 

Don't confuse this by telling me I don't want player interaction. That's one of the elements. I just don't want all player interaction.

 

Gearing up shouldn't be easy. Staying geared up shouldn't be easy. Bottom line - survival shouldn't be easy.

Edited August 5, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Gearing up shouldn't be easy. Staying geared up shouldn,t be easy. Bottom line - survival shouldn,t be easy.

sadly that's not what the loud screamers on the forums are saying.  Players want easy, easy and easy.  They paid for the product so why should they have to invest time into gearing up their character?

[gibonez 3633]

sadly that's not what the loud screamers on the forums are saying.  Players want easy, easy and easy.  They paid for the product so why should they have to invest time into gearing up their character?

 

Yup , hence the reason they are so against the global loot control system.

[Parazight 1594]

PvE should never cease to be challenging.

Therein lies the problem.  It will never be challenging.   I task anyone on these forums to give one example where single player content, in a mmo, is difficult.

 

As stated before, if you can play this game, be totally content, and avoid player interaction altogether, then more power to you.

 

So, the goal is to survive.  I say that it's too easy and nothing can change that.  At some point, PVE becomes boring.  "Surviving" is attained and then what. There's no reward for surviving.  That's the one thing I worry about regarding this game.  There is no end, the whole point of "surviving" can be extremely easy if you're willing to be bored as hell and there's no reward system for "surviving".   Hence, along with other things, pvp is the endgame.

Try, for once, to have a survival instinct. Put it in your mind that you only have one life. Make decisions from that point of view. That point of view is what I (and others) believe was Dean Rocket's goal. After all he thought of it while on a survival ex and it is described as such in the introduction to the game

 

That's hard to do.  You don't have one life to live.  You have limitless lives to live.  Also, I don't give two fucks what Dean's goal is, neither should you.  I never make decisions based on someone else's goals in a video game.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Parazight

[darthbane67 92]

You really needed that long of a post to state the obvious? No duh the endgame is PVP it already is about PVP and always will be about PVP. Anyone and their grandma who played DayZ ever mod or stand alone know that  PVP is the endgame. This is a redundant discussion of course even if we add more PVE and RP elements (which we will) it will always end up being about PVP...Nothing new here folks move along, move along. I am seriously dumbfounded at how you think that long post was some how profound and new.

[Evil Minion 943]

PvE should never cease to be challenging. If it stops becoming challenging you basically have a delayed COD game.

Not necessary as you could still provide plenty of incentive to work together. However, players will reach a point where they can deal with most things the environment throws at them - probably not on their own but surely by cooperation. At this point your main villains are other players and the PvE elements will be minor obstacles on their own - but might make the difference in combination with those villains. You can and should have other goals still but without villains its only a matter of time and effort whereas villains make it a real challenge by making it possible to "lose".

I want what is in the intro to the game. A survival game with all the elements - environment, zombies, and yes KOSers.

Sure - I believe most people want this. However its simply not possible for PvE to stay challenging for a well equipped and coordinated group of survivors without making it certain death for single freshspawns. At some point you will have the supplies and the means to survive in your hostile environment - you will still have to care for getting your food, drink, ammo etc. but it won't be as difficult as before - unless you have to deal with rivals that want your resources or enemies powerful enough to destroy you. This way you will probably not stay in "endgame" forever - just as an empire rises, has its glory days but gets crushed by barbarian attacks in the end. If its done right PvE will stay challenging because other players push you back into the dirt pretty soon.

Gearing up shouldn't be easy. Staying geared up shouldn't be easy. Bottom line - survival shouldn't be easy.

Not easy is not the same as challenging. As a lone wolf or small group its entirely possible you will never reach the point where survival will become easy. Bigger and well organized groups however...