Dean Hall on Vehicles and Barricading

[huf757 82]

I wonder how private hives would work. If the public servers are spawning enough parts to build a heli around 10 to 20 servers then it seems that private hives will have all the parts needed on the one server.  To me this seems to be a real disadvantage to the public hives as more players would flock to the private ones.  Then again this may be what they intend espically if they get kick backs from the server hosters of the private hives, hence the very high prices of the private hives. Purely speculation on my part.

[Deathlove 2286]

But things like helicopters and military firearms absolutely must be rare, in my opinion.

Depends really. Were in a post fictional Soviet Union Country so things like AKs and along with specific ARs, SMGS, and LMGs should be a little more common. Foreign items might be a tad rarer but there were probably plenty of gun nuts in this game that lived in some of these houses prior to the disaster. FIRST the game NEEDS way more diversity in firearms selection before we can begin to even classify what should and should not be common. Right now theres only one type of AR in the game and its pathetically stupid rare and shouldn't really be until until we get a much larger and better variety of them. Same with all the guns once we get a few more common and unique types than they should start classifying rarity.

 

This is a very militaristic country so i would expect to find all kinds of shit especially as i said in another post in broken condition more than anything if they are still around but can be repaired somehow just not to pristine status again.

[Hrki 94]

and if you are playing on private server you wont have choppa ? :D

[kichilron 8550]

Mr. Kichilron if your going to say this atleast give him a link to the discussion so he can read it for himself. Surely a man of your stature on these forums can easily accomplish this.

Give a man a fish, he'll have food for a day. Teach him how to use the search-function and he will have found the topic in question quicker than typing out those words you just did...

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/202125-dean-hall-on-vehicles-and-barricading/

A search for the video would have sufficed. Literally took me 10 seconds to find it - and that's on an iPad. I have not been condescending. I have been pointing directions. Do you think your teacher is condescending? It's his job.

Speaking of doing my job:

Merged.

Edited November 9, 2014 by kichilron

[pillock 850]

Depends really. Were in a post fictional Soviet Union Country so things like AKs and along with specific ARs, SMGS, and LMGs should be a little more common. Foreign items might be a tad rarer but there were probably plenty of gun nuts in this game that lived in some of these houses prior to the disaster. FIRST the game NEEDS way more diversity in firearms selection before we can begin to even classify what should and should not be common. Right now theres only one type of AR in the game and its pathetically stupid rare and shouldn't really be until until we get a much larger and better variety of them. Same with all the guns once we get a few more common and unique types than they should start classifying rarity.

 

This is a very militaristic country so i would expect to find all kinds of shit especially as i said in another post in broken condition more than anything if they are still around but can be repaired somehow just not to pristine status again.

 

 

I'll all for greater variety, and I don't have a problem with the heavier military weaponry being included; but I firmly believe that it must be kept rare, either by global restriction across the hive, or whatever other mechanic they decide to use to make rarity effective.

 

The reason, as I said before, is not to do with what sort of guns might or might not be present in Chernarus, based on the scenario and backstory: the reason is gameplay balance. If military weaponry isn't rare, then it means every man and his dog and his dog's brother will have an assault rifle - and that makes all the lower-level firearms completely redundant in the game (you have an SKS - you must be a freshspawn, because you haven't found anything better yet, etc).Having any sort of gun should be something to be coveted, in my opinion - not just "Oh, I'll keep this Sporter for now until I've found an AK in the next police station I look in."

 

I also think that military weaponry encourages gunfighting and deathmatching. Now, that's OK in itself, but given how much more there is to DayZ beyond that (planned for the future, if not in the game yet), I think commonplace assault rifles would tip the balance too far in that direction and take away from the survival mechanics.

 

Like I said, military weapons have their place in the game, but if owning one was something rare that you've had to invest serious time and effort into finding, then you'd feel all the better for having done it - the more common they are, the cheaper that achievement is.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Pillock

[Zing Freelancer 58]

I also think that military weaponry encourages gunfighting and deathmatching. Now, that's OK in itself, but given how much more there is to DayZ beyond that (planned for the future, if not in the game yet), I think commonplace assault rifles would tip the balance too far in that direction and take away from the survival mechanics.

Fear of death and lack of content encourage gun fights. If a guy with SKS, enough ammo and few clips for it sees a fresh spawn with an axe, what will SKS guy think?

"Oh look, a fresh spawned survivor, maybe we should band together to have better chances surviving in this zombie filled word!"

Or perhaps his first thoughts will be "I better make sure he does not kill me and take my stuff".

If using guns against other players were as dangerous as letting other players close to you, maybe then we would see less KoS.

 

EDIT: Item rarity can also be a reason to kill other survivors. Imagine this, you made it all the way to North West airfield and you see another player. That player is looting items that can be potentially yours, so if you remove him from the equation, all that loot belongs to you now. The benefit of killing him outweighs the benefits of having him alive by 10 to 1 and so that player dies. Had there been enough loot spawning for everyone to get something useful and had there been actual need to have more players to protect yourself from environment, than perhaps you would try to befriend this player instead of shooting him.

 

 

Like I said, military weapons have their place in the game, but if owning one was something rare that you've had to invest serious time and effort into finding, then you'd feel all the better for having done it - the more common they are, the cheaper achievement is.

 

What would you consider "serious time and effort"?

How would that "serious time and effort" be comparable to how easily you can die by simply encountering a random player/server hoper?

 

 

I'll all for greater variety, and I don't have a problem with the heavier military weaponry being included; but I firmly believe that it must be kept rare, either by global restriction across the hive, or whatever other mechanic they decide to use to make rarity effective.

I believe that every server should be a self sufficient eco system with restriction only set by the server owner. This is not an MMO where all servers are owned by the company and people are paying subscription fee (ala WoW) or supporting company via micro transactions (ala GW2). Every server is owned by someone, someone is paying for it. If Dean Rocket Hall gets to decide what loot spawns on my server and that for whatever reason my server is not permitted to have a router assembly spawned because "reasons", than the value of my server is that much lesser than that of other servers.

Otherwise people will go private hives, or hosting companies will provide their own versions of hives splitting community apart even more.

 

 

The reason, as I said before, is not to do with what sort of guns might or might not be present in Chernarus, based on the scenario and backstory: the reason is gameplay balance. If military weaponry isn't rare, then it means every man and his dog and his dog's brother will have an assault rifle - and that makes all the lower-level firearms completely redundant in the game (you have an SKS - you must be a freshspawn, because you haven't found anything better yet, etc).Having any sort of gun should be something to be coveted, in my opinion - not just "Oh, I'll keep this Sporter for now until I've found an AK in the next police station I look in."

What weapon is used is heavily influenced by accessibility, usability and versatility.

For instance you can find ammunition for crossbows in all kinds of places, however a crossbow is rather rare and because of that rarity you do not walk around hoarding bolts. Because by the time you come across a crossbow, you will already have a different gun and couple of mags and good amount of ammunition for it.

 

I can often find a P1 in fire stations and 9mm ammo is quit common, however finding a magazine for P1 is rather difficult. Thus a revolver have better value for me, even though its munition can be difficult to find at times. Sporten 22 is easy enough to find and you often find clips for it too, but you can't attach anything to it making it rather inflexible weapon. In my personal experience with 0.5 there is a higher chance that you will find a shotgun before you come across a Sporten 22.

 

There is a reason to why people prefer one typr of fire arms over the others, for me a 1911, FNX or CR75 would be more sought after because I can put attachments on these guns. I can add a flash light and be equipped for night time as well. Usability and accessibility are important factors why people user some items over others.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Zing Freelancer

[ImageCtrl 719]

You don't encourage server hopping with this. I suggest you read the thread and my posts first.

 

Can you leave a link?

 

A search for the video would have sufficed. Literally took me 10 seconds to find it ...

This is the thread that proves that serverhopping is a nice idea? I loled.

[huf757 82]

Give a man a fish, he'll have food for a day. Teach him how to use the search-function and he will have found the topic in question quicker than typing out those words you just did...

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/202125-dean-hall-on-vehicles-and-barricading/

A search for the video would have sufficed. Literally took me 10 seconds to find it - and that's on an iPad. I have not been condescending. I have been pointing directions. Do you think your teacher is condescending? It's his job.

Speaking of doing my job:

Merged.

I apologize; it is probably a good idea if in the future to refrain from posting immediately after being involved in a heated discussion with wife. :blush:

Edited November 9, 2014 by huf757

[pillock 850]

 

Fear of death and lack of content encourage gun fights. If a guy with SKS, enough ammo and few clips for it sees a fresh spawn with an axe, what will SKS guy think?

"Oh look, a fresh spawned survivor, maybe we should band together to have better chances surviving in this zombie filled word!"

Or perhaps his first thoughts will be "I better make sure he does not kill me and take my stuff".

If using guns against other players were as dangerous as letting other players close to you, maybe then we would see less KoS.

 

EDIT: Item rarity can also be a reason to kill other survivors. Imagine this, you made it all the way to North West airfield and you see another player. That player is looting items that can be potentially yours, so if you remove him from the equation, all that loot belongs to you now. The benefit of killing him outweighs the benefits of having him alive by 10 to 1 and so that player dies. Had there been enough loot spawning for everyone to get something useful and had there been actual need to have more players to protect yourself from environment, than perhaps you would try to befriend this player instead of shooting him.

 

 

 

What would you consider "serious time and effort"?

How would that "serious time and effort" be comparable to how easily you can die by simply encountering a random player/server hoper?

 

 

 

I believe that every server should be a self sufficient eco system with restriction only set by the server owner. This is not an MMO where all servers are owned by the company and people are paying subscription fee (ala WoW) or supporting company via micro transactions (ala GW2). Every server is owned by someone, someone is paying for it. If Dean Rocket Hall gets to decide what loot spawns on my server and that for whatever reason my server is not permitted to have a router assembly spawned because "reasons", than the value of my server is that much lesser than that of other servers.

Otherwise people will go private hives, or hosting companies will provide their own versions of hives splitting community apart even more.

 

 

What weapon is used is heavily influenced by accessibility, usability and versatility.

For instance you can find ammunition for crossbows in all kinds of places, however a crossbow is rather rare and because of that rarity you do not walk around hoarding bolts. Because by the time you come across a crossbow, you will already have a different gun and couple of mags and good amount of ammunition for it.

 

I can often find a P1 in fire stations and 9mm ammo is quit common, however finding a magazine for P1 is rather difficult. Thus a revolver have better value for me, even though its munition can be difficult to find at times. Sporten 22 is easy enough to find and you often find clips for it too, but you can't attach anything to it making it rather inflexible weapon. In my personal experience with 0.5 there is a higher chance that you will find a shotgun before you come across a Sporten 22.

 

There is a reason to why people prefer one typr of fire arms over the others, for me a 1911, FNX or CR75 would be more sought after because I can put attachments on these guns. I can add a flash light and be equipped for night time as well. Usability and accessibility are important factors why people user some items over others.

 

 

Fear of death will always be present in DayZ; lack of content will not (hopefully!).

 

Either way, whether or not someone chooses to kill another player they encounter will always depend on their individual playstyle and attitude - not everyone is as coldly calculating as you apparently are! Personally, I don't regard DayZ as a loot-collection game, so I am unlikely to kill someone just because they have more/better stuff than me.

 

My point is that some weapons are just simply better than others - and in order for the lesser ones not be rendered completely worthless, the higher-end ones should be restricted in terms of how often they spawn. It doesn't make sense not to do this, as far as I see it. Whatever mechanic is used to achieve rarity (global restriction or something different) is by the by: the important thing is that it works effectively to make higher-end equipment rare.

 

Dean Rocket Hall does not personally decide which servers spawn which loot (I presume you knew this already?): the idea is that the global loot economy would be randomly distributed across all public servers. If your server doesn't have a particular item, it doesn't mean that it never will; there won't be any favouritism, and noone will know which servers have spawned which gear until they find it. The next time that particular rare item spawns, it is likely to be in a different, entirely random, server.

 

The same goes for vehicle parts and other gear that gives significant advantages over the more 'basic' stuff.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Pillock

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Fear of death will always be present in DayZ; lack of content will not (hopefully!).

 

Either way, whether or not someone chooses to kill another player they encounter will always depend on their individual playstyle and attitude - not everyone is as coldly calculating as you apparently are! Personally, I don't regard DayZ as a loot-collection game, so I am unlikely to kill someone just because they have more/better stuff than me.

 

My point is that some weapons are just simply better than others - and in order for the lesser ones not be rendered completely worthless, the higher-end ones should be restricted in terms of how often they spawn. It doesn't make sense not to do this, as far as I see it. Whatever mechanic is used to achieve rarity (global restriction or something different) is by the by: the important thing is that it works effectively to make higher-end equipment rare.

 

Dean Rocket Hall does not personally decide which servers spawn which loot (I presume you knew this already?): the idea is that the global loot economy would be randomly distributed across all public servers. If your server doesn't have a particular item, it doesn't mean that it never will; there won't be any favouritism, and noone will know which servers have spawned which gear until they find it. The next time that particular rare item spawns, it is likely to be in a different, entirely random, server.

 

The same goes for vehicle parts and other gear that gives significant advantages over the more 'basic' stuff.

The point is, people are not going to want to rent a public hive that people can't enjoy because certain loot is not spawning there.   Why rent a server where people are going to leave because they can't find their precious M4?

[Zing Freelancer 58]

This goes for vehicle parts and other gear that gives significant advantages over the more 'basic' stuff.

I don't think they will manage vehicles well in the first 10 iterations. Remember what happened in vanilla DayZ?

NO SERVERS had vehicles, they where all hoarded and hidden some place on the map. If you was lucky enough to find a broken down vehicle, you needed to look all over the place to find spare parts. You needed wheels, engine, scrap metal, fuel tank, jerry can and maybe a bit of glass. Now Dean "Rocket" Hall talks about tripling the amount of parts you need for a vehicle. It was difficult enough to collect parts to repair vehicle in vanilla DayZ and keep your vehicle well maintained. But with this new system it feels like they want to make vehicle ownership a complete nightmare and a chore.

 

Fear of death will always be present in DayZ; lack of content will not (hopefully!).

I am convinced that developers of standalone are determinate to prove you wrong on this one. But you know what they say about hope, it dies last. Here is a prime example of hope, some optimistic individuals still believe that Relic can bring balance to Company of Heroes 2, hah!

 

Either way, whether or not someone chooses to kill another player they encounter will always depend on their individual playstyle and attitude - not everyone is as coldly calculating as you apparently are! Personally, I don't regard DayZ as a loot-collection game, so I am unlikely to kill someone just because they have more/better stuff than me.

I was only considering the KoS situation from a different point of view, while doing so I kinda ended up taking this point of view. In reality am the opposite of cold and calculating, I always try to avoid KoS when possible. Yesterday I met another new spawn and really wanted to try stun baton on him, cuff him and molest him, but ended up helping him out and explaining game mechanics. Besides we both entered Solnichniy and there was abundant amount of loot, more than enough for both of us (Birthday party bug). During my DayZ epoch time I was a big damn hero type. 

 

My point is that some weapons are just simply better than others - and in order for the lesser ones not be rendered completely worthless, the higher-end ones should be restricted in terms of how often they spawn. It doesn't make sense not to do this, as far as I see it. Whatever mechanic is used to achieve rarity (global restriction or something different) is by the by: the important thing is that it works effectively to make higher-end equipment rare.

Why? Just because something is better than something else why should it be restricted?

 

Look, making certain loot like night goggles, range finder and SD weapons spawn only on helicopter crash sites was a bad thing in the vanilla mod. It made these items very rare and finding them as an average player were nearly impossible. SD weapons was completely useless as it was nearly impossible to find magazines for them or the complete opposite like when you could find STANAG SD mags on hunting stalls, but impossible to find a rifle that could use these mags.

 

As you progress deeper inland you should be able to find better gear, what is the point of walking for miles if when you arrive at a military base and find the same gear you found at the coast?

At the same time time rare content should be common enough to make using it meaningful or would you rather promote people into hoarding rare weapons and ammo and never using it?

 

Another important thing is for servers to be self-sufficient and have working loot re-spawn mechanics capable of servicing 30 to 50 players within short period of time. If there is less than 20 players on the server, that means they will have abundance of loot. On the other hand if the server is full up to 50 player, they might have to start fighting each other even over cans of beans. 

When loot is picked up by a player, that loot is no longer part of the server eco-system, it belongs to the player, not the hive or the server. New loot has to be introduced on the server to prevent loot starvation and migration between servers. At the same time, if well geared player joins a server, it should not affect how much loot is spawned.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Zing Freelancer

[pillock 850]

The point is, people are not going to want to rent a public hive that people can't enjoy because certain loot is not spawning there.   Why rent a server where people are going to leave because they can't find their precious M4?

 

But they won't know if the M4 has or hasn't spawned on their server, will they? It could be that they just haven't looked in the right place yet. There's just as much chance of it spawning in one server as any other. But it does all come down to the numbers in the end - exactly how rare these things will be is unknown to us right now.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 

But they won't know if the M4 has or hasn't spawned on their server, will they? It could be that they just haven't looked in the right place yet. There's just as much chance of it spawning in one server as any other. But it does all come down to the numbers in the end - exactly how rare these things will be is unknown to us right now.

You and I both know that the majority of players do not have the patience to go looking, hence why server hopping is already rampant.  "Oh, this place is cleared out, next server"

[pillock 850]

You and I both know that the majority of players do not have the patience to go looking, hence why server hopping is already rampant.  "Oh, this place is cleared out, next server"

If the top-end, most valuable loot is restricted to dynamic spawnpoints (and only appear in a random few of those across the hive), then server hopping for those items will be pretty pointless. If you don't go looking, you're less likely to find the top stuff - isn't that right?

[Zing Freelancer 58]

If the top-end, most valuable loot is restricted to dynamic spawnpoints (and only appear in a random few of those across the hive), then server hopping for those items will be pretty pointless. If you don't go looking, you're less likely to find the top stuff - isn't that right?

I know this sounds suspicious, but experience have taught me that people will find a way around that restriction.

[ImageCtrl 719]

If the top-end, most valuable loot is restricted to dynamic spawnpoints (and only appear in a random few of those across the hive), then server hopping for those items will be pretty pointless. If you don't go looking, you're less likely to find the top stuff - isn't that right?

Atm for example we have the crashsides as dynamic spawnpoints.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/221100/discussions/0/619569608544581737/

 

I was just wondering how you guys look for them, and for how long, like do you server hop round a few crash sites or go along a path of them for a while, then change? Also, how many do you find when doing that? I spent a couple of hours this week going from Zelenogorsk to Sosnovka to Pogrevka but I only found 6 in that time, and 3 were the bugged kind.

 

The first answer is...

 

i server hopped NW airfield 50+x 20 heli crash sites, its random only 3 spawn at a restart. so low chance you fill find one.

 

Of course OP knows this already and wonder why he never find something.

 

I sometimes do that but mostly  they're all looted or someone's camping it.

[Deathlove 2286]

The point is, people are not going to want to rent a public hive that people can't enjoy because certain loot is not spawning there.   Why rent a server where people are going to leave because they can't find their precious M4?

I want different ARs besides the M4A1 as being the only AR in game that might be more easily accessible. Its ridiculous we do not have a bigger variety yet. Im hopping these are the next guns they decide to work on.

 

Ill stay on one server even if i cant find one i just find it overly frustrating a common AR cannot be found at any military or police compound lol. I don't even care about all the attachments which are just a bonus for me i just like the AK attachments in general.

 

Im hopping a few more common ones like the M16 and so on get put in. Usually most police stations carry a very limited amount of M16's in there armory.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Deathlove

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I want different ARs besides the M4 as being the only AR in game that might be more easily accessible. Its ridiculous we do not have a bigger variety yet. Im hopping these are the next guns they decide to work on.

Ill stay on one server even if i cant find one i just find it overly frustrating a common AR cannot be found at any military or police compound lol. I don't even care about all the attachments which are just a bonus for me i just like the AK attachments in general.

Im hopping a few more common ones like the M16 and so on get put in. Usually most police stations carry a very limited amount of M16's in there armory.

know why you can't find it? Hoppers have already claimed them. Legit players who want to stick to one server get boned by server hoppers, plain and simple. There is no justifying a hive wide loot table that hoppers are going to snatch up. Edited November 9, 2014 by Caboose187

[Deathlove 2286]

know why you can't find it? Hoppers have already claimed them

LOL pretty much

[NicoBaloira1357 24]

Does not make sense nor do a lot of players want that...Instead of making stuff rare why not fixing spawns to make more sense?

 

Police stations should spawn only loot policemen would use (not Mousins, SKS, old shotguns etc)

 

Military bases should spawn only military loot no SKS, Mousin, Blaze, etc

 

I do not see what the problem is with gearing up...why people hate this? Not everyone wants to run around dressed like farmer Joe...and without server hopping it is actually quite a challenge to get a fully geared all military setup with all equipment in pristine shape.

 

Rather than make it rare make it Harder. Swarm the bases with zombies like hundreds. 

There are shotguns in police stations, patrol policemen use glocks, but in the station there's plenty of gear in case a situation escalates.

 

I do agree that if there were 75-100 zombies in an area it would be hard to loot no matter how much loot there is. Zombies are hardly a threat in the current state of the game.

Edited November 9, 2014 by NicoBaloira1357

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Server hopping incentives. I give up...