Ammo Calibration : Poll & Discussion

[Deathlove 2286]

Also iv been very vocal about wanting some higher grade .50 ammunition weapons but if they give shit like an M107 .338 ammo instead of .50 im going to be pissed.

[hotcakes 348]

I wish they would reconsider their line of thought. More ammo = less chance of people getting their guns up and running. 

 

It's already happened with the AKM and M4. They're a bit more rare now and I haven't seen many of them in my recent playthroughs. 

[pillock 850]

I think it's probably true that "the majority" of the DayZ community "doesn't care" about different gun calibres. But this is probably because that majority has pretty much zero knowledge of using guns.

 

I am one of them: I don't care. I certainly wouldn't miss these kind of details if they were left out, because I didn't know about them in the first place.

 

However, I'm not going to complain if they do make it more complicated, and more difficult to use and maintain weapons - I think it would probably enhance the experience, overall - and this is from the PoV of someone who certainly regards himself as a "casual" player. Guns that degrade, get damaged, and need constant care and attention to keep in working order sound great to me, and if ammo is difficult to match with your gun, then all the better.

 

Having said that, I don't regard DayZ as being all about the guns. Accordingly, IF they put these sorts of details into the fire-arms mechanics, I think they should certainly give at least if not more than equal weight to things like character health, driving and vehicle maintenance mechanics, crafting and so on. These things are all far more important to me in terms of the overall experience, and far more relevant to most people's general knowledge and to the survival scenario.

[liquidsnake 275]

@Pillock Correct calibres just isn't a detail, at least not to me. Loading 7.62x51 into a Mosin is almost as bad as fictional weapons or overly tacticool firearms. They just... make me want to throw up.

 

OT: What they need to realise is that the loot system is broken. If no loot respawns until the server restarts, I sure as hell wouldn't want too many calibres. However, once it's fixed and loot respawns regularly, more calibres are not only a viable decision, but needed. Right now, finding the round you want is nicely balanced. Once loot respawns it'll become ridiculously easy to find what you need. More calibres would make finding the round you need as well-balanced as it is now. I must agree that now is not the time to add new rounds, but in the future? Hell yes.

[Pandema 352]

Warsaw pact weapons firing NATO ammo. God, this still makes me twitch.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Warsaw pact weapons firing NATO ammo. God, this still makes me twitch.

The only guns firing incorrect ammunition are the Mosin and the LongHorn (which isn't a Warsaw pact weapon.) The PM-63 will probably fire the 9x19mm bullets, but we don't know that, for all we know they could add 9x18mm.The devs haven't added a Makarov or AK-74 to the game, so complaining about what they've said could happen is rather stupid.

 

People are also missing the fact that Chris & the other devs have clarified over and over again that the guns would end up like this if they were added at this point.

People seem to skip right over the whole "for now" aspect of what they've said. An AK-74 added is only going to use 5.56x45mm bullets if they added it before improvements to the loot system (mainly centralization and respawning).

 

It's not like we're in desperate need of more guns at the moment, anyway. The weapon's list is almost as big as the mod's, and we're getting even more guns soon. We can wait to have our Makarov and AK-74 until they have the system optimized for more calibers.

[gibonez 3633]

The only guns firing incorrect ammunition are the Mosin and the LongHorn (which isn't a Warsaw pact weapon.) The PM-63 will probably fire the 9x19mm bullets, but we don't know that, for all we know they could add 9x18mm.The devs haven't added a Makarov or AK-74 to the game, so complaining about what they've said could happen is rather stupid.

 

People are also missing the fact that Chris & the other devs have clarified over and over again that the guns would end up like this if they were added at this point.

People seem to skip right over the whole "for now" aspect of what they've said. An AK-74 added is only going to use 5.56x45mm bullets if they added it before improvements to the loot system (mainly centralization and respawning).

 

It's not like we're in desperate need of more guns at the moment, anyway. The weapon's list is almost as big as the mod's, and we're getting even more guns soon. We can wait to have our Makarov and AK-74 until they have the system optimized for more calibers.

 

I thought the longhorn was a .308 win pistol rifle thingy ?

 

You are right about the number of guns though.

 

I assume they will start to slow down soon. Mp5k , 870 clone we saw, SVD, Cz rifle, and the pm. Overall we have a pretty complete weapon list in the game.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I thought the longhorn was a .308 win pistol rifle thingy ?

 

You are right about the number of guns though.

 

I assume they will start to slow down soon. Mp5k , 870 clone we saw, SVD, Cz rifle, and the pm. Overall we have a pretty complete weapon list in the game.

I don't think they'll slow down permanently, though. I think we're just getting a basic alpha lineup of firearms (with a few little extras like the Engraved 1911 to keep us happy) so we have a variety of weapons to test with gameplay. Then we'll pick up again as the major issues sort out and the variety starts to come into play.

 

But yeah, they could honestly stop adding weapons as is (even without ever adding the confirmed future weapons like the PM63 and MP5K) and we'd still have a pretty good weapons list. Sure, it could use a little bit of ironing out (especially SMGs and shotguns), but the variety is already better than quite a few other games.

 

I'm sure we'll always be getting new weapons, though, because the PM-63 was commissioned by a freelance artist if I'm not correct. Chris Torchia also loves doing guns, and he's talked about tons that he wants to do, so I'm sure those will keep popping up in his lineup.

 

 

Edit:

Thompson Contenders don't exist in .308 as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong, but I thought the largest they went up to was .300 WM. The one in-game is slightly different anyway, so it could just be a fictional variant.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[gibonez 3633]

The thought of firing a 300 win mag out of such a short barrel hurts me.

[Deathlove 2286]

The thought of firing a 300 win mag out of such a short barrel hurts me.

Im just waiting for laser beams to become somehow possible with certain kinds of weapons...... XD

 

I mean fuck it why do we need realistic rounds anyways am i right?! X'D

[Chaingunfighter 917]

The thought of firing a 300 win mag out of such a short barrel hurts me.

They make longer barrels for the higher caliber variants, but I guess if you wanted to, you could choose the smallest barrel.

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

Made a thread on reddit -**********************- If you could and go upvote it it would be extremely appreciated. 
 
Many of you may have seen a comment made by a developer -

what it comes down to is us really wanting to have the lowest possible number of calibers spawning in the game. Thats why we've only been adding in the most common types (9mm, .45, 12ga, 5.56, 7.62, etc...) and why we've been grouping similar kinds of ammo into one. Its the reason we haven't made a distinction between the mosin, blaze, longhorn, or eventually SVD ammo types. In reality these four are firing two different kinds of 7.62mm rounds but the performance characteristics are more or less the same. There was a time when we weren't even going to delineate between SKS and Mosin ammo but after some "enthusiastic" discussions, 7.62x39 was added (thankfully :)).
So if we add a Makarov pistol, its going to simply fire 9mmP instead 9mmM. If we add an AK74, it'll fire 5.56mm, not 5.45mm. Thats why I haven't added those in. Those of us who are real gun nuts would revolt (but I have a feeling the wider community dosn't give a crap as long as it looks cool :)

This has made quite a ruckus in the community - several topics had been made on the issue, with one topic reaching 22 pages (until it was locked). Here's the topic I mentioned -http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/198233-dev-users-dont-care-about-the-right-caliber/[1]
Unfortunately, the thread didn't get a response by a DEV on this, which many would consider, pressing issue. I would assume there are quite many players who would like to know if this caliber streamlining is final or it'll be rectified once the game gets closer to release.
I would also like to get an answer (as would many other players) on the following question - is the firearm accuracy and the way how attachments, namely the Magpul buttstock and handguard increasing the accuracy of an M4AA1, impact the handling of firearms final or will we see a more realistic approach to how firearms are represented in DayZ?
Please upvote for visibility so that DEVs notice this topic and we can finally have some long awaited answers.

[gibonez 3633]

Pretty important issue not sure why the last thread was deleted.

[pilgrim* 3514]

So the 22 page thread that was locked today (this morning) is opening again here today (this afternoon) ?

.. and

.. I thought that first thread started because there WAS an official statement ?

 

""..//..[the Devs] really wanting to have the lowest possible number of calibers spawning in the game ..//.. There was a time when we weren't even going to delineate between SKS and Mosin ammo but after some "enthusiastic" discussions, 7.62x39 was added ..//. ""

 

is it going to start again ?

wow (I'll bring sandwiches)

Edited June 27, 2014 by pilgrim

[foxdie_01 121]

Im okay with the shared ammo types we have now. You've got to draw the line at some point between game and reality.

[gibonez 3633]

I'm just curious why the last thread was closed.

Nobody was insulting anyone and db's discussion was on topic.

[randomspawn 215]

Count me as not concerned. Sorry, I am playing a game where my pixels shoot your pixels, and vice-versa. It doesn't matter to me if my bullet pixels are bigger/smaller than your bullet pixels. However, I respect that some here are concerned about bullet pixel size and think they should push for it due to that concern. 

 

FWIW, bullets and guns are things that can be easily added later, with new updates possibly bringing new items to the table each time. It's not like deciding on allowing choppa's and whatknot. It's just some copy/paste from current models with the necessary modifiers for each ballistic.

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

So the 22 page thread that was locked today (this morning) is opening again here today (this afternoon) ?

.. and

.. I thought that first thread started because there WAS an official statement ?

 

""..//..[the Devs] really wanting to have the lowest possible number of calibers spawning in the game ..//.. There was a time when we weren't even going to delineate between SKS and Mosin ammo but after some "enthusiastic" discussions, 7.62x39 was added ..//. ""

 

is it going to start again ?

wow (I'll bring sandwiches)

 

 

This thread isn't meant as continuation of the 22 page one. I'm simply letting the community know, that a topic has been made in reddit, so that they can voice their concerns by upvoting it. In order for us to have an official statement on this.

 

Since the developers comment made a lot of noise - 22 page thread where people voiced their opinion in a poll, where the majority of them wanted proper cartridges - I felt that a statement on the issue would resolve any questions. Many of us just want to know is this streamlining of the game for simplicity's sake final or will we see authentic portrayal of firearms. That is it.

[gibonez 3633]

Count me as not concerned. Sorry, I am playing a game where my pixels shoot your pixels, and vice-versa. It doesn't matter to me if my bullet pixels are bigger/smaller than your bullet pixels. However, I respect that some here are concerned about bullet pixel size and think they should push for it due to that concern.

FWIW, bullets and guns are things that can be easily added later, with new updates possibly bringing new items to the table each time. It's not like deciding on allowing choppa's and whatknot. It's just some copy/paste from current models with the necessary modifiers for each ballistic.

It really has nothing to do with pixel sizes.

It had to do with making ammo harder to find by giving the weapons the correct ammo type.

It's about asking the devs to stop the casualisation of dayz and stop catering to the brain dead mass market who will no longer be playing this in 6 months.

It's about dayz staying faithful to the mod, the mods focus on realism and stopping the floodgates of tardness from contaminating the game even further.

[boneboys 7988]

Right let me make things clear to you.

Cap'n made a Topic in which you posted, this was merged into a long disputed poll which I locked on the 5th for very obvious reasons.

Do not continue with this approach.

[BRCojones 3]

The Mosin currently uses the 7.62x51mm in game and in real life it uses the 7.62x54mmR. There are variations but the original Soviet model uses 54mmR.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant

 

I know I'm being picky but if this game wants to emphasize realism they need to get their calibers right. It would open the door for a NATO based weapon to use the 7.62x51mm such as the SR-25.

[pilgrim* 3514]

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/198233-dev-users-dont-care-about-the-right-caliber/#entry1994231

 

already been some discussion on this topic

Edited June 27, 2014 by pilgrim

[BRCojones 3]

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/198233-dev-users-dont-care-about-the-right-caliber/#entry1994231

 

already been some discussion on this topic

Thanks for the link but either way they need to change it this is based off the military simulator arma after all.

[blaeZ 95]

Thanks for the link but either way they need to change it this is based off the military simulator arma after all.

You should search for similar suggestion posts before making one of your own. Help keep the clutter down, ya know?

[boneboys 7988]

:facepalm: pick up teh bullitZ, put em in the gun and shoot.

 

Go play HoS, where the yearly weapon production is accurately represented (or not, according to some gun nutZ).

 

Can we have something original today please, I get the feeling that the forums are being trolled (no, I'm not even thinking of epoch servers).

 

Go reedit please.