I HATE playing 3rd person servers.

[Rauchsauger 94]

There's also only 3 servers over 30 people

You noticed the little scrollthingy in the top right corner?

[casper1 44]

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/795190344702216374/5156D1E50014CAFE49F46A9D764282BD2DF411E1/   Look how cool looking all items.  Pressing tab not gonna gives us the same feeling at all.

 

That was a quick shot from our meeting.

[Weedz 1105]

I started out on regular servers, and then went over to hardcore servers, since I at first felt it was more realistic to play in a first person perspective, and thus more immersive.

 

Eventually I realised that it wasn't at all realistic to play in a first person perspective. The reason for this is that in reality you can turn your head at a moments notice as a reaction to a sound for example. It's an intuitive action, that in the game has to be performed by first pushing a button, and then moving the mouse around. Well, fine. That's the same on both regular and hardcore.

 

But then comes the real issue I had. Your field of view is unrealistically narrow in first person perspective. It's like tunnel vision akin to after having driven a car in 150 mph. In real life we can move our eyes without having to turn our head, and that coupled with our peripheral vision gives us a pretty big field of view. Compare how much you can see of your own body while standing up straight and not moving your head, with first person perspective in game in which you can only see your hands. So since that revelation I only play on regular servers.

 

And on the matter of peeking around and over walls, in reality we can look with one eye around a corner, only revealing the side of the head and cheek. In the first person perspective we have to lean over in a 45 degrees angle and stick our whole head out to see around a corner. And what about standing on your toes to peek over a wall? In my opinion third person perspective is a good substitute considering the limitations of the engine.

 

My conclusion is that regular servers are more true to life when it comes to field of view because the third person perspective compensates for the limitations in the game engine.

 

I still use first person perspective on regular servers however. Mainly when moving tactically, or when hiding in a bush or sitting close to an obstacle.

Your entire post is horribly flawed. You start by saying that it isn't realistic to play a shooter in first person mode .... And then complain about the ability to turn your head which pretty much no other game even does.

 

You then claim you're FoV is bigger in 3rd person. This is not true at all it doesn't change at all only your camera is moved back 10 feet from where it was. In real life you can only see up to 180 degrees without turning your head. You gain almost no FoV by rotating your eyes this increases your total range from like 165 to 180. If you stand up straight with your head straight you can see almost none of your body ... it's not that hard to test. You have these things called cheek bones and on top of that your brain creates a blind spot.

 

You do not need to lean to look out from a corner nor do you need to stick your head entirely out. This part shows what your true complaint is about. You can't exploit your camera around a corner in 1st person and actually have to look.

 

You then claim that a magic camera that floats 15 feet behind and above you is more true to life then seeing out of a human shaped character's eye balls.

 

 

These completely ridiculous arguments are nothing but you blatantly trying to come up with any incredulous excuse you can to justify you wanting to be able to corner camp with 0 exposure ... or have you never played a videogame before in your life?

 

Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you're making yourself look?

 

I've come to the conclusion that prolonged exposure to corner camping causes sever brain damage presenting itself as the patient making statements that are in fact the opposite of anything that can be considered a rational thought.

 

...... wow

Edited March 24, 2014 by Weedz

[finnpalm 312]

Your entire post is horribly flawed. You start by saying that it isn't realistic to play a shooter in first person mode .... And then complain about the ability to turn your head which pretty much no other game even does.

 

You then claim you're FoV is bigger in 3rd person. This is not true at all it doesn't change at all only your camera is moved back 10 feet from where it was. In real life you can only see up to 180 degrees without turning your head. If you stand up straight with your head straight you can see almost none of your body ... it's not that hard to test. You have these things called cheek bones. You do not need to lean to look out from a corner nor do you need to stick your head entirely out.

 

You then claim that a magic camera that floats 15 feet behind and above you is more true to life then seeing out of a human shaped characters eye balls.

 

 

These completely ridiculous arguments are nothing but you blatantly trying to come up with any incredulous excuse you can to justify you wanting to be able to corner camp with 0 exposure ... or have you never played a videogame before in your life?

 

Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you're making yourself look?

 

No but I realize how ridiculous you look when you're making up standpoints for me instead of actually trying to comprehend what I'm writing. Not to mention you're aggressive and insulting.

 

But since you're incapable of understanding, or even ask for a clarification if something seems vague and instead burst out in your prepubescent internet rage, I'll try to comfort you by explaining.

 

I didn't complain about the ability to turn your head (which is in pretty much every respectable game these days. I don't know what games you play to be honest). I pointed out that it's not as easy to turn your head in-game as it is in real life. This makes you lose some of your ability to perceive your surroundings.

 

Moving the camera back indeed broadens your view somewhat. You also see more if you freelook backwards in third person perspective than in first person perspective. And not only that but third person is a good substitute for peripheral vision since it allows you to see the immediate surroundings without having to freelook.

 

When I stand up and hold my arms out in front of me I can see my shoulders. I don't know about you, but I can definately see parts of my body, other than just my hands.

 

 

 

These completely ridiculous arguments are nothing but you blatantly trying to come up with any incredulous excuse you can to justify you wanting to be able to corner camp with 0 exposure ... or have you never played a videogame before in your life?

 

Yeah, if they had only been arguments instead of me just presenting my reasons for choosing to play on a regular server.

 

I have played a couple of video games in my life. I'm old enough to remember the Commodore 64. It's not an excuse to corner camp. I play friendly so your theory fails. It's a matter of first person perspective only, breaking immersion for me. In combination with third person perspective it works for me. But running around with constant tunnel vision doesn't feel right to me so I choose to play on regular.

 

Now, if you weren't such an angry person who blatantly attack me for not sharing your view, we might have had a good discussion about this. But I'm not really interested in talking to you anymore, so I'll leave it at this post, and you can rummage around in your precious hate-thread with others who hate the same things you hate, and scare off anyone else coming to interrupt your hate fest.

 

You're a muppet.

 

EDIT: Look! I even made you a fucking diagram.  :lol: The blue circle symbolizes the game character. The green angle is first person perspective camera and the red angle is third person perspective camera. The black line is a wall, or terrain or whatever fucking object you enjoy looking at in-game.

 

Edited March 24, 2014 by Strawman

[Weedz 1105]

^Yes those two angles are exactly the same you are correct ... ^ People linking things that prove themselves wrong is my favorite thing on the internet.

I didn't complain about the ability to turn your head (which is in pretty much every respectable game these days. I don't know what games you play to be honest). I pointed out that it's not as easy to turn your head in-game as it is in real life. This makes you lose some of your ability to perceive your surroundings.

 

Since you're just the typical ignore everything and make your argument seem more ridiculous the longer you go crutch camper I'll just respond to this part. Please let's see of a list of only 10 AAA titles where you can turn your head.

 

I'd also like to know if any of the other people in favor of keeping corner camping in the game agree with you that 3rd person is more realistic and I quote "true to life". (I'll give you a hint they've pretty much all already said it's less realistic and more arcady which is the whole point of it)

 

Good luck on your quest; you'll need it.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Weedz

[muddyraccoon 176]

Hmm.  I don't know how to handle this.  Bully the bullies by pointing out that they are arguing biased opinions against another person's biased opinion and call them stupid?  Remind people that immersion and realism are not the same?  Explain how broken First Person is if you want realism? (<- turns out it's second nature to flick eyes from side to side in high stress environments, meaning the 1PP should have a near 180 degree angle view just like 3pp with the FOV altered and the eye movements should be left to the player.  Unless you are playing on a small small screen, eye tracking will occur, like in real life**)  Or should I just call myself a pretentious asshole for asking questions like I'm so superior?  Who the fuck do i think I am?

 

Anyways, all of you are wrong and right.  Shut up and deal with it.  Both exist.  Both are played.  Both are fun.  I will even toss myself in the camp of "Serious in Hardcore servers, no fucks given in Regular."  But i will say this, and I am sorry to my Hardcore brethren, but if you think hardcore is harder, you are wrong.  Here is my explanation of my opinion that I stated as fact just to rustle some jimmies:

 

In Hardcore, it's easier to hide, it's easier PVP in cities like Berezino.  If you are chasing someone in an open are like a field or even a low built city like the outskirts of berezino, that person, unless freshspawn, should have a backpack, and they can't see you.  Easy kill.  Happens so much i feel bad doing it.  But in Hardcore, I'm hardcore.  I feel lame for saying that.  But that "easier" moniker isn't a superior label.  It's easier to play dumb in hardcore, and it is hard to play smart.  Especially if you play on 3PP servers before hcore.

 

3PP servers are MUCH harder (to survive and thrive in), but much much less challenging to pick up.  While prone under a window sill, you peek around without letting anyone know you are there, and you see nothing.  You try moving out, run out of the building then BAM!  turns out 5 other guys were doing the same thing.  Going to the airfield?  Go prone under a pine tree.  You can see the whole airfield.  But I guess so can 1pp players, so that isn't even an argume-SSSHHHHHHH!  Is that a someone creeping in the woods behind you?  Better increase the field of view and alt+turn!  Easy as pie ( I assume that saying was coined after the first American Pie.  I mean, it did just lie there and take it).  

 

No go ahead and rage because lord knows you kids got nothing else going on (it's ok, I don't either), but if this is to succeed as a Sandbox, we need mudslingers on both sides.  

 

 

**Footnote** Strawman's comment is overall flawed, since head movement I think is handled pretty well, it's just his point holds merit in a different light, like how you can get flanked by someone who could walk right up to you and you wouldn't notice until the barrel of the gun entered your field of view.  I know that to simulate peripheral vision would look retarded, but widening the FOV for FPP isn't giving a wider overall sight.  You still have to look with your real life human eyes at the wide screen (again, if this doesn't apply to you, maybe it's time to update that CRT monitor?)

 

EDIT:  nvm, we are on the same page Strawman.  That diagram said what my Too Long: Must Read post humorously stated.

Edited March 24, 2014 by MuddyRaccoon

[Weedz 1105]

EDIT:  nvm, we are on the same page Strawman.  That diagram said what my Too Long: Must Read post humorously stated.

If you think that a diagram that shows nothing more than two 90 degree angles shows that 3rd person has a higher FoV than you don't know what FoV is. The arc of your camera does not change at all by switching views it simply moves where the camera is. Watch the video about it in this thread it explains it quite clearly.

 

 

Still waiting on that list of AAA games where you are able to turn your head like in Arma. Shouldn't be hard if "pretty much every single reputable game does it now".

Edited March 24, 2014 by Weedz

[Jamz 253]

I'd also like to know if any of the other people in favor of keeping corner camping in the game agree with you that 3rd person is more realistic and I quote "true to life". (I'll give you a hint they've pretty much all already said it's less realistic and more arcady which is the whole point of it)

 

 

Well, as you've asked :)

 

I also feel TPV gives an added dimension of realistic awareness that FPV cannot. Where in reality you can pick up on whats going on around your immediate vicinity, sometimes even if its out of view (that awareness you have if someone is moving around just at the edge of your peripheral vision for instance.. which in itself changes constantly as your head is moving constantly. TPV gives you slightly more information than you would receive in real life, just as FPV gives you less. So which is more true to life? Neither more so than the other.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

^Yes those two angles are exactly the same you are correct ... ^

Since you're just the typical ignore everything and make your argument seem more ridiculous the longer you go crutch camper I'll just respond to this part. Please let's see of a list of only 10 AAA titles where you can turn your head.

 

I'd also like to know if any of the other people in favor of keeping corner camping in the game agree with you that 3rd person is more realistic and I quote "true to life". (I'll give you a hint they've pretty much all already said it's less realistic and more arcady which is the whole point of it)

 

Good luck on your quest; you'll need it.

Bohemia has spoiled me with the head turn, whenever I play DayZ or Arma 3 for an extended period and go back to another shooter I will attempt alt look at least once. 

 

As far as all the other stuff I could care less about realism. Both 1PP and 3PP have issues that make them very unrealistic but since we are playing a game that is to be expected. Until we have the Holodeck we can expect games to continue to be unrealistic. Having a realism argument is like arguing whose shit smells better, guess what they both stink. 

[Weedz 1105]

Bohemia has spoiled me with the head turn, whenever I play DayZ or Arma 3 for an extended period and go back to another shooter I will attempt alt look at least once. 

 

As far as all the other stuff I could care less about realism. Both 1PP and 3PP have issues that make them very unrealistic but since we are playing a game that is to be expected. Until we have the Holodeck we can expect games to continue to be unrealistic. Having a realism argument is like arguing whose shit smells better, guess what they both stink. 

I agree talking about realism for a videogame is dumb. I was simply responding to someone going on and on about realism by pointing out that saying that an artificial camera floating 15 feet behind you so you can see behind your back, over 12 foot walls, and around corners is not more "true to life" then seeing out of your characters eyes no matter how you look at it.

 

 

Here I'll even link the video again as it pretty much exactly about how every single point strawman was trying to make is horribly flawed and it was buried I don't even know where

 

 

Also still waiting on that AAA head turn list .... I'll even lower the number to 8

Edited March 25, 2014 by Weedz

[doctorbadsign 645]

I prefer hardcore servers.

 

People can play in regular if they wish, I don't have a problem with it, but why you would knowingly put yourself in an uneven playing field is beyond me.

[PhillyT 554]

I prefer hardcore servers.

 

People can play in regular if they wish, I don't have a problem with it, but why you would knowingly put yourself in an uneven playing field is beyond me.

 

Because he is playing the true hardcore! 

[finnpalm 312]

 

This video is great. He lays out his opinion in a humble way and still acknowledge the opposing opinion's merit. Arma 3 has an excellent sollution to peeking around and over things instead of the regular three different static poses. Too bad that system isn't in DayZ. Still he fails to notice that moving the camera backwards does indeed broaden your field of view. Just as he says that it doesn't you can clearly see on the edges of the screen that a tree is fully visible in third person perspective, and only a third of it is visible in first person perspective. It's amazing how someone could think that this video somehow makes my opinion invalid. As if an opinion can be invalid.

 

- "What's your favourite ice cream flavour?"

 

- "Blueberry."

 

- "Wrong. You're dumb."

 

 

I prefer hardcore servers.

 

People can play in regular if they wish, I don't have a problem with it, but why you would knowingly put yourself in an uneven playing field is beyond me.

 

How is it uneven when everyone has access to it? ;)

Edited March 25, 2014 by Strawman

[rodolfoxiii 71]

Make the weapons accurate in 3rd person.

 

/thread

[muddyraccoon 176]

Wait, what?  That video speaks what I speak.  I will say I typed more than I thought so I might have glazed over my point, or just dropped the ball altogether.  Also, I was assuming the diagram was being used for the purpose of showing a broken mechanic?  I also speed through most posts by you, Weedz, and strawman, Because, well, you know why.  It's ok.  Not getting a point across would piss me off too.  What I want, is a wider FoV, not a deeper view point.  In that diagram of 2 identical angles, the FPV angle is that of someone cupping hands to the sides of their eyes.  It's terrible.  The FoV when you have the setting on max on 3PP is better, but it should be on 1PP.  Again, forget head movements.  It should be left up to the gamer to move their eyes, like humans do.  Add that with the head movements, and you got something maybe.  Or not, I dont know.  

 

As for fairness, 3PP will always be here.  Even if the devs think it was a mistake to add, it would have been a bigger one not to.  If you want the more realistic feel, give 4 of your friends Bath salts, and go camping for fuck;'s sake.  For the game, use the feature in Red Orchestra 2.  It lets 3PP peak around all the corners and over all the walls they want.  But if you are behind a wall and someone is on the other side, if you cant see it in 1PP, it wont show up in 3PP either.  They do that for loot, zombies, other players.  then all this fun talk energy can go back to a fucking KoS thread or something just as productive.  

 

I prefer hardcore servers.

 

People can play in regular if they wish, I don't have a problem with it, but why you would knowingly put yourself in an uneven playing field is beyond me.

Different playing field.  Not uneven.  It's pretty much a different experience altogether.  And I mean that in the best way possible (when discussing Hardcore servers).

[Weedz 1105]

Still he fails to notice that moving the camera backwards does indeed broaden your field of view. Just as he says that it doesn't you can clearly see on the edges of the screen that a tree is fully visible in third person perspective, and only a third of it is visible in first person perspective.

That is actually you failing to understand what FoV is and that moving a camera doesn't change it. If you were to take 10 steps backwards and go back into first person you would have the same exact screen minus your character on it as you did in your original position in 3rd person.

 

FoV is the angle your camera can see; moving where it's located doesn't change it's angle.

 

It's clearly explained in the video in simple words you're just failing to accept it because it goes against what you originally were claiming.

 

 

 

Still waiting on that list of AAA title games where you can move your head like in Arma too ....

 

 

 

 

Again, forget head movements.  It should be left up to the gamer to move their eyes, like humans do.  Add that with the head movements, and you got something maybe.  Or not, I dont know.  

 

This is what makes Arma awesome and makes going and playing any other shooter feel far inferior because unlike yet another bogus claim by strawman ("pretty much every reputable game does this now") this is one of the only games that allows you to do it.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Weedz

[finnpalm 312]

Ok, since you clearly are letting your rage cloud your brain too much I'll give it one more go clarifying.

 

 

 

That is actually you failing to understand what FoV is and that moving a camera doesn't change it. If you were to take 10 steps backwards and go back into first person you would have the same exact screen minus your character on it as you did in your original position in 3rd person.

 

FoV is the angle your camera can see; moving where it's located doesn't change it's angle.

 

It's clearly explained in the video in simple words you're just failing to accept it because it goes against what you originally were claiming.

 

You're nitpicking. You're so busy raging on something you don't like you still don't manage to see with your own fucking eyes that the picture rendered is wider if you watch it in third person view than it is in first person view. Blah blah blah field blah blah you don't understand blah. I don't give a shit if I'm not using a term to your liking. The view that is rendered is wider in third person no matter what you want to call it. You're making a strawman argument, ironically enough, by arguing against my choice of words. They're not the point I'm making.

 

 

 

Still waiting on that list of AAA title games where you can move your head like in Arma too ....

 

Well, keep waiting. Because that's just another strawman argument. It's not a relevant point that I've made. It was a fucking paranthesis (also I never said triple A or reputable. I said respectable, but you either lack the ability to comprehend or your desire to flame just makes you conveniently ignore that).

 

Now, you can sit there and cry because I don't agree with you. You can even have the last word if that comforts you somehow. I don't give a shit. You're not adressing my points (simply going "nuh-uh" doesn't count), you seem to think that people who prefer third person view somehow encroach on your preferred play mode and you somehow think that if you find one small error in someone's argument you can invalidate all their points. Go play hardcore and let those who want to play regular do that. You're seriously getting angry over something that isn't, or shouldn't be a problem. What a sorry case you are.

 

Going to leave you now. I know you'll try to provoke me into replying to you again. Your kind always does that. You're just here to argue.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Strawman

[Weedz 1105]

 

Don't worry give it some time and you'll be like me and understand that these people will never care about or even read your points because they are so firm set in their ways of ruining the game for themselves that they couldn't care less about anything that would go against the crutches they cling onto like it's a life raft. They will in fact most of the time start insulting and using every swear in the book on you if you prove anything they are saying to be false with cold hard facts.

 

^

I'm calmly trying to explain to you how you are wrong about something. You're throwing hissy fits, swearing, and then running away. So living up to the stereotypes exactly that I earlier stated that you claim didn't apply to you now for the 4th time

 

 

You're making a strawman argument, ironically enough, by arguing against my choice of words. They're not the point I'm making.

 

 

So name even 1 game where you can turn your head like Arma?

 

Well, keep waiting. Because that's just another strawman argument. It's not a relevant point that I've made. It was a fucking paranthesis (also I never said triple A or reputable. I said respectable, but you either lack the ability to comprehend or your desire to flame just makes you conveniently ignore that).

 

Your name suits you quite well .... almost ironic you could say ...

Edited March 25, 2014 by Weedz

[Mr Sinister 167]

The only thing ive ever wondered, is why isnt it called 2nd person perspective. They missed out a number there i think, or did i miss somthing?. :).  As for your friends, tell them to get in the hardcore :). Seems alot better in them from my experiences. 

[Weedz 1105]

The only thing ive ever wondered, is why isnt it called 2nd person perspective. They missed out a number there i think, or did i miss somthing?. :).  As for your friends, tell them to get in the hardcore :). Seems alot better in them from my experiences. 

2nd person would be somebody watching you. I'll link a game in a sec that is a 2nd person perspective game.

 

Technically it's 1st person ish becuase technically you are the guy behind the cameras but you never are in the game it's all about "controlling" the girl so this should give you good idea of someone watching you 2pp game. I always link people this it makes it instantly clear what 2pp is >.< it always takes me 15 minutes of googling to remember what the name is.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Weedz

[Mr Sinister 167]

2nd person would be somebody watching you. I'll link a game in a sec that is a 2nd person perspective game.

Ah, the voyeur perspective :D. Always been a fan without every realising it ;) lol. Just kidding, but this is somthing me and my lass have often wondered about 2nd person perspective. Thanks for clearing that up. 

[mgc 92]

3pp should not be part of a simulator that advocates realism.

It does split the community.

Add mirrors you can use to peek around corners.

[doctorbadsign 645]

 

How is it uneven when everyone has access to it? ;)

 

 

Go prone on a rooftop and tell that to the guy that you see below who has no idea that you are there.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Lets hope that they add restricted view to helmets etc and this gets applied to 3rd person as well.  It will look so ridiculous everyone will play Hardcore eventually.

[Tr1ToN 4]

Well, my take is that DayZ's already "Hardcore" (whatever meaning you ascribe to that, I ascribe "unforgiving" to it) enough for most. I've got no problem with either playstyle, if they forced Hardcore servers only, I'd be bummed but I wouldn't stop playing.

 

I just like being able to see my character, it's really that simple.

Press "TAB" and enjoy.