Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[jimgun 64]

There is only this argument because people on the pro-1pp side of the argument want to see 3pp taken away for what they perceive to be for the best.

 

Why when you can choose which you want to play?

 

And please, no bullshit about why having both is "fracturing" the community.

 

I only see one side pushing for the removal of the other.

[n1kko 326]

All aided by 3pp.

Then

Play

Hard

Core.

 

 

I literally can't make it any simpler.

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Third Person, or 3PP as I will refer to it in this post, is a crutch the majority of DayZ players don't want to give up.

 

It allows you to stay in cover while being able to see over that cover that completely hides you, and it also prevents people from sneaking up on you (from the behind.) Its not like you can play with 3PP on and NOT exploit, you'll do it by accident, two to one.

 

In First Person, or 1PP, there is a lot less of a chance a good player will accidentally see over a wall while remaining hidden and then use that to their advantage without even realizing they are exploiting.

 

For god's sake, "Frankie" uses 3PP to exploit in nearly all of his videos.

 

Lots of people use 3PP to exploit, and they don't think anything of it. Tons of my friends probably do it, and don't consider it cheating or anything remotely naughty. It comes with the 3PP we have here - The ability to garner unfair advantages over other players without even knowing you're doing it.

 

We have 1PP servers, but really, why keep 3PP?

 

Its a crutch.

 

If you want your screenshots, get a friend to take 'em.

[OrLoK 16185]

There is only this argument because people on the pro-1pp side of the argument want to see 3pp taken away for what they perceive to be for the best.

 

Why when you can choose which you want to play?

 

And please, no bullshit about why having both is "fracturing" the community.

 

I only see one side pushing for the removal of the other.

Merging with existing thread,

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

I know its not an identical subject but the debate generally spirals down to the usual 1st vs third.

 

As to Gib's OP the menu system was considered at one time. I cant see a better system than having a "casual hive" and a "survivor hive" or however one wants to eventually call them.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

[chompster 171]

 

Players being invisible until you have line of sight on them is an alternative. The way that Arma3 mod did it.

Not that i care, i simply stick to HC servers, and only play 3pp with my noob friends.

 

Fixed that for you buddy.

alternative to what exactly?

it's the Solution to the 3pp exploit.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Chompster

[minime1000 78]

I kinda like the arcade casual gameplay in 3rd person with looking over walls and around corners so this would ruin it.

[gibonez 3633]

this is such a tired fucking topic. my only wish is that rocket or one of the devs would step in and conclusively say that 3PP is staying as it is and the 1PP elitists need to HTFU and play on 1PP servers because nothing is changing.

 

He has said in the past that they are going to fix it.

 

They haven't said how although I remember reading mention of a completely changed 3pp camera that is locked in and cannot be moved to be exploited.

[frozenjaws 69]

PLAY HC.. END OF FLIPPIN STORY!

[gibonez 3633]

PLAY HC.. END OF FLIPPIN STORY!

 

Obviously not if this thread exists and so many players want it fixed.

[PhillyT 554]

People want it "fixed" because they are sallies.

 

I have been playing Hardcore almost exclusively lately.  It is a much easier experience, sure, but I have the choice to take it easy.  Let people retain that choice.

[jimgun 64]

Obviously not if this thread exists and so many players want it fixed.

 

...wrong.

 

I can see plenty of people who prefer 1pp asking for 3pp to be "fixed" or removed.

 

The rest are people trying to point out that we have both 1pp servers and 3pp servers so what's the problem?

 

Explain to me why if we have both for people to enjoy you want to remove one option.

[gibonez 3633]

...wrong.

 

I can see plenty of people who prefer 1pp asking for 3pp to be "fixed" or removed.

 

The rest are people trying to point out that we have both 1pp servers and 3pp servers so what's the problem?

 

Explain to me why if we have both for people to enjoy you want to remove one option.

 

Because regardless of there being 2 modes to play being able to see over cover and around walls is a problem and problems should be fixed during the games development.

 

This has nothing to do with the games perspective but instead on fixing a critical flaw of the game a flaw that ruins fair play and ruins pvp.

[minime1000 78]

The problem is it splits the community. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made and you can't please everyone. Game should have been 1pp only from the start.

Soon there will be a demand for official pve hives, and then no-loot-lost-on-death hives because "hey if you already have 3rd person and 1pp hives, then why not have these extra hives. Nobody is forcing you to play on them so they don't affect you."

 

I would prefer the game to be 1pp but play on 3pp more because I like 3rd person shooters like GoW and CoD 3rd person mode and I can use the same tactics here.

Edited May 18, 2014 by myshl0ng

[jimgun 64]

Because regardless of there being 2 modes to play being able to see over cover and around walls is a problem and problems should be fixed during the games development.

 

This has nothing to do with the games perspective but instead on fixing a critical flaw of the game a flaw that ruins fair play and ruins pvp.

 

But if you don't want to be seen over walls, or around corners, isn't that what 1pp is for? 

 

 

The problem is it splits the community. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made and you can't please everyone. Game should have been 1pp only from the start.

Soon there will be a demand for official pve hives, and then no-loot-lost-on-death hives because "hey if you already have 3rd person and 1pp hives, then why not have these extra hives. Nobody is forcing you to play on them so they don't affect you."

 

I would prefer the game to be 1pp but play on 3pp more because I like 3rd person shooters like GoW and CoD 3rd person mode and I can use the same tactics here.

 

It doesn't split anything, we are all playing DayZ. Glad you can enjoy both.

[AzrailCross 48]

But if you don't want to be seen over walls, or around corners, isn't that what 1pp is for? 

 

 

 

It doesn't split anything, we are all playing DayZ. Glad you can enjoy both.

 

Just a heads up, know the thread was merged and you may not have read back. But Hardcore is not 1pp and it is not a "First person only" mode with the same settings as Normal, it's hardcore, it's intended to be a harder experience not because of first person solely but because of a harder survival system and zombies - watching some of the dev logs you can see at least Dean's desire to have Hardcore actually be harder.

So the whole concept of we have two modes is rather moot in the coming months, as soon as Hardcore receives it's features - Normal server's are where the majority are going to be just because plenty of people - while they'd prefer playing in first person - will end up forced onto the normal servers with third person solely because they don't want that extra challenge on top of a already great challenge. So what will be said then? That we seperate all the modes so we end up with

 

Normal - First person

Hardcore - First person

Normal - Third Person

Hardcore - Third person

 

Because that seems like a massive split to the playerbase and lacking any real polish. 

The only real solution is either 'get over it and adapt to our third person advantages' or actually code in a line of sight to third person to prevent seeing around corners, and over walls without actually exposing yourself as you should have to - to see other players and zombies - rather than magically have all the tactical advantages of an invisible camera hanging way back. 

 

Despite the claims it's all about positioning and tactics and doesn't provide any advantage - that's obviously bogus, just the bare bones fact you can see outside a door without exposing any single part of yourself and with that sight know if someone is directly outside, if they are looking in your direction or even heading toward it.

 

Meanwhile that same situation in first person, you'd had to look around the corner with Q/E or step out entirely and thus, maybe see someone's there and not be seen in return but on the same token potentially have been noticed - or even taken fire - to be aware of that person's presence and exact location. Huge tactical difference knowing where someone is and which way they are looking before even exposing yourself to fire than not. 

 

Anyone who thinks about it with any amount of reason and logic can see resolving this line of sight issue doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage, but rather levels the playing field so that both first person and third person players must actually 'look' for potential threats, rather than safely laying in cover but still being able to get a visual. If it's coded in now, it can be tested while in alpha and be polished long before release. 

 

In any case, though, it doesn't matter what happens, people will complain on both sides for eternity, countless will miss how awesome it was to see around corners if they change it - countless hate it if they don't. I use both, like both, dislike feeling more compelled toward third person but meh. I'll probably be on the hardcore server anyway long after it's gotten the additional 'difficulty' features just because I'll likely enjoy that extra challenge and play normal when I want third person in my gaming experience, but for the rest that hate it so passionately, disappointment is a part of life and I wouldn't get your hopes up that'll it be fixed, it just doesn't seem likely.

[minime1000 78]

 

It doesn't split anything, we are all playing DayZ. Glad you can enjoy both.

Then it would be completely fine for BI to make hives for also PVE, loot on spawn and other gamemodes. I mean we are still playing the same game and nobody is forcing you to join the hives you don't like.

Maybe a hive/gamemode where you have no hunger and thirst, that would be cool.

 

I would like a PVE hive when zombies are finally done in huge numbers. And hunger and thirst are pretty much pointless so might as well remove those.

Edited May 18, 2014 by myshl0ng

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I actually quite like this as a fix it just needs some work.

 

Once audio is realistic, to the point where you can hear people from a distance when they're running around, perhaps you could have some kind of a ghost view of them?

To emulate what you would gather from your real life senses, hearing past a wall.

 

So basically you see a blurry image of where a person is when they're making a lot of noise but you see nothing else, not what direction they're looking, not what guns they do or don't have, nothing just a general idea of where they are.

 

I think that works out fine, people camping on a rooftop make no noise so they're still safe, but if they fire a shot they might be slightly exposed.

Edited May 18, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[soulfirez 901]

I actually quite like this as a fix it just needs some work.

 

Once audio is realistic, to the point where you can hear people from a distance when they're running around, perhaps you could have some kind of a ghost view of them?

To emulate what you would gather from your real life senses, hearing past a wall.

 

So basically you see a blurry image of where a person is when they're making a lot of noise but you see nothing else, not what direction they're looking, not what guns they do or don't have, nothing just a general idea of where they are.

 

I think that works out fine, people camping on a rooftop make no noise so they're still safe, but if they fire a shot they might be slightly exposed.

why do people have the belief that human senses are that acute they we are all like the comic book character dare devil?? if they work on sound great if you hear them that will roughly tell you were they are not some artificial ghost view...

[AzrailCross 48]

why do people have the belief that human senses are that acute they we are all like the comic book character dare devil?? if they work on sound great if you hear them that will roughly tell you were they are not some artificial ghost view...

 

Gotta agree. Real life I wish anyone luck on being able to even remotely pinpoint someone's position through a wall via sound, you might get a general idea, but nothing remotely as precise. The only worthwhile thing this reminds me of is they really need to improve the sound system - coding in the material each wall is suppose to have such as concrete and ensure sounds coming from inside a brick/concrete house aren't as pronounced as sounds inside a outhouse for instance. 

 

But this whole idea of DayZ having a mechanic similar to 'the last of us' is just outlandish. If we're going to go that far should just throw out the whole idea of what DayZ is and add in a talent tree and XP and start allowing points to add to 'hearing sight' 'Night sight' 'silent steps' 'critical shot %' 'minimap tracking' 'footprint tracking' ...and of course, the all time favorite! 'bullet time' ...

 

..ah god what have I done, I should know better than being sarcastic, they might actually do it.  

Edited May 18, 2014 by AzrailCross

[UltimateGentleman 355]

why do people have the belief that human senses are that acute they we are all like the comic book character dare devil?? if they work on sound great if you hear them that will roughly tell you were they are not some artificial ghost view...

 

Kind of because they practically would be.

Think about it, in DayZ there is no traffic going around, no planes overhead, currently not much wind and no streets full of people. It would be and is very quiet, someone running around with a backpack full of stuff and hiking boots in the distance would be extremely easy to hear.

 

I say ghost/blurred view because no audio system can accurately convey what your senses do and people just popping in an out of sight like in the video would be dumb and lead to issues no doubt, people would probably end up staying invisible half the time.

 

EDIT how deaf are you people? I can practically hear what step someone is on as they go up stairs.

Edited May 18, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[soulfirez 901]

Kind of because they practically would be.

Think about it, in DayZ there is no traffic going around, no planes overhead, currently not much wind and no streets full of people. It would be and is very quiet, someone running around with a backpack full of stuff and hiking boots in the distance would be extremely easy to hear.

 

I say ghost/blurred view because no audio system can accurately convey what your senses do and people just popping in an out of sight like in the video would be dumb and lead to issues no doubt, people would probably end up staying invisible half the time.

 

EDIT how deaf are you people? I can practically hear what step someone is on as they go up stairs.

Well i commend your incredible senses then guess the rest of us must be deaf its just strange that humans have used dogs for hundreds of years for hunting ( in the wilderness with no planes etc flying over head) For warning systems as our senses are not all that great sure you get a rough idea of where someeone is ( and if they made sound trully directional it would give you almost exactly what you would have in real life thats the point of directional sound work ).

 

Evenblind peoples hearing is not pin point directional i have tested the theory years ago when i lived with a blind guy( he would know i was there but he turn back and fourth trying to pin point my direction.)

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Well i commend your incredible senses then guess the rest of us must be deaf its just strange that humans have used dogs for hundreds of years for hunting ( in the wilderness with no planes etc flying over head) For warning systems as our senses are not all that great sure you get a rough idea of where someeone is ( and if they made sound trully directional it would give you almost exactly what you would have in real life thats the point of directional sound work ).

 

Evenblind peoples hearing is not pin point directional i have tested the theory years ago when i lived with a blind guy( he would know i was there but he turn back and fourth trying to pin point my direction.)

 

No that's just because a dogs senses are better...

Plus they're more for scent than hearing, their hearing would only be for when people are sleeping because they wake up easier.

 

Human senses aren't that weak.

 

Actually blind people can have amazing senses typically, there's even blind people who can ride bikes through a city with as much skill as a person with sight. They just rely on echolocation or frequent noise to determine things they can't tell if someone is standing still at a distance, same as this blurred view I'm suggesting.

 

EDIT ideally they could have proper directional and realistic sound but I doubt the DayZ team is going to make something that amazing all they're doing is creating a game.

Edited May 18, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[minime1000 78]

So much realism it is unrealistic

[gibonez 3633]

So much realism it is unrealistic

No such thing as too much realism.

 

MOAR realism THA beTTA