"Flawed Concept" - Discuss

[RabbitZ 38]

You know how in the game Left 4 Dead, you had to go through so many zombies just to get to some silly shack? Well the one thing that was odd about that game is that the characters were immune and didn't take that much damage from things biting and scratching you silly. But what I liked about that game was how you're able to kill a zombie with an axe to the head and you can see the damage you made, how easy it was to kill something that was already dead. But when I play DayZ, the first zombie comes up to me with a bat in my hand and I imagine how it's face would look like after I'm done with it. Granted DayZ doesn't have the right engine for those kind of graphics but it is logical that a hit from a bat to the face can stun, or even kill when it comes to rotting flesh. But that zombie continued to attack me, after so many hits to it's head. The only way to survive such a dreadful world 'full' of these things is to group up and help each other... but only for 5 minutes. Why 5 minutes? well it would take at least that long to clear a whole city of these things, which are like 5 or 6 zombies. Then we sadly don't have anything to do but kill each other, feed each other rotten kiwis. The whole point of this game was to survive, hope that the zombie didn't see us and not scream for a horde; run like hell to a place where other players can help you.

Sorry that's just some rant I made up there, I felt like typing it down. What I want to see DayZ as is a mix between Left 4 Dead and The Last of Us. It would pretty much be like Project Zomboid except the aerial view of a well trained bird and pixelated graphics of what the stereotypical hipster gamer would want. The certain qualities of the 2 games would easily change a DayZ player's view of another player's life and keep the game more interesting to play. There would be a better reason why anyone would run to cherno, medical supplies, food and water, more survivors. Not sitting around camping, shooting off anyone you see; because that would be stupid to shoot a gun in the middle of a large city, full of zombies...

[Mdogg2005 447]

That's because it's a normal reaction to what was said earlier and what is being said now. Why wasn't the game a "flawed concept" BEFORE 1.5 million sales were made? Odd, isn't it?

Pretty much this.  Sell a shit load of copies and then a month later say the concept is flawed and you're moving on to other projects because your true vision will never come to fruition.  Gee I bet the millions of backers would have loved to know they bought an alpha that will never be finished that had a flawed concept to begin with.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

Gee I bet the millions of backers would have loved to know they bought an alpha that will never be finished that had a flawed concept to begin with.

 

Dean is staying 10 months, when beta is scheduled to begin. He is also leaving the other ~30 members of the team working on it.

 

Edit: I decided to remove that part of my post. If you saw it, I stand by it, I just don't like having a meltdown and snapping at people even if I do think it's entirely justified. Seriously, please read things before having a knee-jerk reaction and assuming the worst because the forums have enough of it right now.

Edited February 24, 2014 by DarkwaveDomina

[Mdogg2005 447]

Dean is staying 10 months, when beta is scheduled to begin. He is also leaving the other ~30 members of the team working on it.

 

Edit: I decided to remove that part of my post. If you saw it, I stand by it, I just don't like having a meltdown and snapping at people even if I do think it's entirely justified. Seriously, please read things before having a knee-jerk reaction and assuming the worst because the forums have enough of it right now.

I didn't see it.  I usually come and go from the forums, I don't lurk and spam F5.  I'm not a fragile thing who can't stand e-thugs either so by all means post what you were going to say to me for voicing my opinion and feelings.

 

There was also no knee-jerk reaction.   Who would buy a game if the creator says "It's a flawed idea and I'm using it to cash in so I can make my own, better games down the road."?

 

I wouldn't.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Mdogg2005

[pacific_coast 632]

Dean is staying 10 months, when beta is scheduled to begin. He is also leaving the other ~30 members of the team working on it.

 

Edit: I decided to remove that part of my post. If you saw it, I stand by it, I just don't like having a meltdown and snapping at people even if I do think it's entirely justified. Seriously, please read things before having a knee-jerk reaction and assuming the worst because the forums have enough of it right now.

Domina, the issue is this.

 

I feel slightly let down. Slightly ripped off.

BI is a terrible studio, and without Dean Hall actively guiding the process, this would have become ARMA3:dayZ edition.

Now, he says the game is fundmentally flawed, and he won't be on the project after beta launches.

The game can change DRASTICALLY between beta and launch.

Once rocket is gone the BI exec will tell the new lead: "want to keep your job? hype rediculous features and get this out the door asap!"

and the game will never be what it COULD HAVE BEEN

because the creator said "eh, why bother? i'll go make something else..."

 

if you want to be an elitist and critizise the intelligence of your community memebers, you can leave.

[Mdogg2005 447]

The majority of the total sales have probably already been made.

What incentive should anybody have to go on from here? Would't make much sense from an

economical standpoint.

I really have to congratulate on the marketing tactics to convince so many people to purchase

an unfinished "flawed" product. It is something to learn from.

To hype a product to the maximum and then tell people not to buy it apparently created

even larger sales.

Simply brilliant.

Couldn't agree more.  Hype the game to shit, call it a piece of garbage and encourage people not to buy it, sell over 1.5m units, then call it a flawed concept and cash out because you "are a perfectionist and can't handle the game not being perfect."

 

I need to become a game designer because it apparently pays well.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I didn't see it.  I usually come and go from the forums, I don't lurk and spam F5.  I'm not a fragile thing who can't stand e-thugs either so by all means post what you were going to say to me for voicing my opinion and feelings.

 

There was also no knee-jerk reaction.   Who would buy a game if the creator says "It's a flawed idea and I'm using it to cash in so I can make my own, better games down the road."?

 

I wouldn't.

 

You claimed the alpha wasn't going to be finished, despite the fact that it's only Dean leaving and the project isn't being canned. That was a knee-jerk reaction.

 

And believe me, I removed what I said for the benefit of making the mods' lives easier and because I don't like having a meltdown at people. No other reason.

 

Domina, the issue is this.

 

I feel slightly let down. Slightly ripped off.

BI is a terrible studio, and without Dean Hall actively guiding the process, this would have become ARMA3:dayZ edition.

Now, he says the game is fundmentally flawed, and he won't be on the project after beta launches.

The game can change DRASTICALLY between beta and launch.

Once rocket is gone the BI exec will tell the new lead: "want to keep your job? hype rediculous features and get this out the door asap!"

and the game will never be what it COULD HAVE BEEN

because the creator said "eh, why bother? i'll go make something else..."

 

if you want to be an elitist and critizise the intelligence of your community memebers, you can leave.

 

I normally wouldn't quote a whole post with so many lines, just pick out the main point to make my reply, but your post (and all the others you keep making today) are exactly what I am talking about so I'm going to frame it here for posterity.

 

You feel slightly let down? That's fine, I will miss Dean myself, but the rest of your post?

 

Why do you feel ripped off? Not only were you warned not to buy the game, you have probably got your money's worth out of it. That's not to say it shouldn't be finished, it should, which brings me to my next point: You people are acting like the world is ending. The project isn't being cancelled, it's going to be worked on by the same people who have been working on it since the inception of standalone, yet you seem to take every opportunity to attack them and claim they'll screw it up. Then why stay? You keep saying it'll be left with a skeleton crew who will screw it up, you're talking about the current team when you say that even if you don't realise it, so why stay? You're so certain this game is going to become a shambles, fine, if I were thinking that way I know what I'd do.

 

I did criticise the intelligence of some of the members of this forum, not all, and I stand by it. The ones who clearly cannot read and launch in to full-scale, knee-jerk conspiracy theories and rants are the kind of members who I feel won't be missed, not just on the forums but probably in-game.

Edited February 24, 2014 by DarkwaveDomina

[Rudette 435]

Coming from the prospective of a tabletop gamer, maybe his vision is that of a more immerse pseudo-roleplaying atmosphere with the level of immersion that the playerbase nor the engine can provide.

It also sounds like a number of other issues. There is no magic bullet one size fits all reason, but more a consortium of many which may or may not include:

*It's gotten tedious/not excited for it anymore
*Differences in an opinion with the devs.
*Perfectionism/feeling burdensome to the devs.
*Being homesick.
*Personal life, ect.

Reasons that we will never get the whole picture of, and thus have no business judging. The decision has been made. Move on.

I think a lot of people are using this as yet another excuse to project on other people rather than admit that they are at fault. Ego won't allow them to consider that it was they, themselves, who chose to purchase an alpha product nonchalantly masquerading under the guise of "Early Access", and despite warning labels, still moan about how they are the victims. They are right, to some extent.
These people are the mindless victims of advertising, They bought it because it was what everyone else was doing. They put their money down on potential. And potential is still what they have.
Hasn't changed.

There will be positives and negatives to Rocket putting distance between himself and DayZ. But our position in the now is still the very same. We're still awaiting the core features of an alpha product.
Save the bitching and moaning for 10 months down the road.
 

Edited February 24, 2014 by Rudette

[pacific_coast 632]

hmm domina and dallas only beans/post that rep/defend rocket

nothing else

 

when the lead dev cant stand his own game and has to abandon the project it's not going to succeed

Edited February 24, 2014 by pacific_coast

[blissfulkunt 196]

Honestly, with Dean leaving after making his cash, Rust never updating and running shittier then ever.. DayZ will be the last early access game I ever buy... Its not that I am totally unhappy... I just have this sick feeling in my gut, feel idk conned even though I got more then my 30$ worth already.

 

With that being said, for my own sake, I am never ever buying an early access game again

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

hmm domina and dallas only beans/post that rep/defend rocket

nothing else

 

when the lead dev cant stand his own game and has to abandon the project it's not going to succeed

 

"Hurr hurr Domina is such a Rocket fanboi, hurr hurr." Didn't I tell you to go find the posts in which I criticise him if you care so much? Even the mods have noticed them so I'm surprised you didn't. At least change the record, calling me a fanboi doesn't refute anything I have been posting today.

Edited February 24, 2014 by DarkwaveDomina

[Rudette 435]

hmm domina and dallas only beans/post that rep/defend rocket

nothing else

 

when the lead dev cant stand his own game and has to abandon the project it's not going to succeed

I'm not defending him. I'm not choosing a side. And I'll tell you why: Because it's ridiculous. Why get our panties in a bunch over something that changes little if anything in the now?

There will be advantages and disadvantages, the likes of which we won't see for at least ten months. My point is, why whine now when we don't have repercussions to whine about?

Absurd waste of time and energy.

"Early Access" is a silly marketing phrase that means "Gamble your money on our promises"

You gambled. You feel like you lost that gamble? That's on you. No one else.

Please dont be so simple, you're better than that. I've seen it.

 

Edited February 24, 2014 by Rudette

[Nocturnal (DayZ) 85]

"Fundamentally flawed concept" - One of the greatest games I have ever played.

 

I want to hear Rockets idea of a good concept.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Nocturnal

[blissfulkunt 196]

"Fundamentally flawed concept" - One of the greatest games I have ever played.

 

I want to hear Rockets idea of a good concept.

Honestly this.

 

Its garbage the way he announced his leaving, and his defense was lame.

 

Its a great game, I really dont understand... Work for a month or two from home time to time so you dont get homesick, I miss my family sometimes too... but if something was making me millions and with such a strong community to back me, I would in no way abandon it to make whatever he thinks is the ultimate survival game. DayZSA has that potential.. Why not just work on DayZ 2 and make it what you think isnt fundamentally flawed in the future.

 

I am really started to believe Bohemian and him got in some sort of argument or it all has something to do with money.. IE getting bought out... I have no idea.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I applaud his honesty.

[Deathlove 2280]

Honestly this.

 

Its garbage the way he announced his leaving, and his defense was lame.

 

Its a great game, I really dont understand... Work for a month or two from home time to time so you dont get homesick, I miss my family sometimes too... but if something was making me millions and with such a strong community to back me, I would in no way abandon it to make whatever he thinks is the ultimate survival game. DayZSA has that potential.. Why not just work on DayZ 2 and make it what you think isnt fundamentally flawed in the future.

 

I am really started to believe Bohemian and him got in some sort of argument or it all has something to do with money.. IE getting bought out... I have no idea.

From a technical standpoint its always about the money most of the times whether or not ppl want to admit it sadly. Production cuts, the works it all comes down to money. Im curious as to why he even wanted to do this in the first place if he was just going to give up on it less than a year into production. Most good games take about 5-10 years to make depending on the quality and depth of it.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Deathlove

[louist 163]

It IS unprofessional to say something like this, but well, rocket is not a good PR guy, sicne he is too honest and direct and sometimes his wording is a little bit...let's called it unclear.

Maybe this guy on reddit is right:

The problem I have with that, Jack, though it may very well be correct, is that none of the key features/mechanics that Rocket introduced work towards that goal. Complete anonymity actively works against forming rivalries. In fact, under most instances, they are impossible to form, and alliances are almost as difficult to create, when you can't build the of trust required over a series of interactions. The lack of some sort of character progression makes "perma-death" an empty, meaningless phrase, so there is no real danger to acting recklessly, again encouraging nothing beyond random violence.

If he was looking for the types of interactions and the stability of a community that reddit poster suggests, he was going about it the wrong way, in my opinion.

You know where you did find people working together, forming alliances, and rivalries? I shit you not, in Epoch. People were so invested in their bases and such that the formed bands and dukes it out.

[PhillyT 554]

Couldn't agree more.  Hype the game to shit, call it a piece of garbage and encourage people not to buy it, sell over 1.5m units, then call it a flawed concept and cash out because you "are a perfectionist and can't handle the game not being perfect."

 

I need to become a game designer because it apparently pays well.

 Dogg, much jaded.

 

Wow

 

You are better than this Mdogg.  BI is a small developer.  There is a ton of money still to be made here and their reputation is on the line.

 

They have a small team and the potential to get another million or so sales at full price.  They will finish this game.  I can't see where this assumption that the game will be abandoned is coming from.  It doesn't fit into the idea of an effective development.  If they are successful with this game, they very easily could have a franchise worth much more than their EXTREME niche ARMA.

 

The DayZ mod resulted in more sales of ARMA 2 than the actual game generated.  If that isn't a sign to BI that they have an immense opportunity, I don't know what is.  A publishing group of their size needs to be smart and efficient.  It would be foolish to drop this potential franchise since it is likely to double their companies product line.

[spartanxapathy 203]

Well, crucially its flawed because of what we see already.

 

People will rarely work together to achieve a goal. It is much simpler to attack and loot.

 

I think the original concept was about banding together and surviving the outbreak. As we see now, it's less about the zombies and it's predominantly the bandits you need to worry about.

 

I almost forget about the 'Z' aspect actually.

 

Less multiplayer, more deathmatch.

 

Well said.

[Mdogg2005 447]

 Dogg, much jaded.

 

Wow

 

You are better than this Mdogg.  BI is a small developer.  There is a ton of money still to be made here and their reputation is on the line.

 

They have a small team and the potential to get another million or so sales at full price.  They will finish this game.  I can't see where this assumption that the game will be abandoned is coming from.  It doesn't fit into the idea of an effective development.  If they are successful with this game, they very easily could have a franchise worth much more than their EXTREME niche ARMA.

 

The DayZ mod resulted in more sales of ARMA 2 than the actual game generated.  If that isn't a sign to BI that they have an immense opportunity, I don't know what is.  A publishing group of their size needs to be smart and efficient.  It would be foolish to drop this potential franchise since it is likely to double their companies product line.

I was trolling to be ironic, sorry T.  <3

[or'dinii 28]

Admittedly with so much expectation the developers do face a bit of a hill to climb.

And they have a landslide of people with "another FPS for us to troll people in!" mentality that they need to wade through before they can even begin the climb :/

 

If I were to guess; KOS'ers are in minority, but as with much else IRL, they set the agenda and tone for the game months before it is even in beta.

 

Software hijack ftw :D

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

He said exactly what he means, you guys are running around like headless chickens and reading too much in to it.

 

 

He's a perfectionist, despite the game being a financial success and loved by many thousands of people, he feels he can do better. Don't try to understand a perfectionist, unless you are one yourself they are absolutely impossible to figure out and seem borderline insane.

 

It's not as if he has some special  out of the ordinary perception. Anyone can see that there are problems in DayZ.

 

They just want it to be completed and not end up like ArmA3, which was considered to be a final release even though it is still not finished. Relying on the mod community to finish the job may work for ArmA3 but not for standalone.

[hells high 676]

Any artist or writer or creator will see flaws in their own creations. Dean is just being honest with how he sees the design of DayZ, it doesn't mean they are going to stop development like some of you nutjobs seem to think.

 

I have a little secret to tell you, EVERY CONCEPT IS FLAWED. On paper Communism is one of the greatest things ever created. On paper democracy makes everyone happy.

 

You need to stop picking that out as some kind of personal insult, the concept for the game isn't perfect because NO game concept is perfect. Flawed doesn't mean shitty it means imperfect, and its literally impossible not to be!

[Highlander007 249]

I have a little secret to tell you, I SEE DEAD PEOPLE..

 

[360Nation 60]

"I feel like DayZ  is a fundamentally flawed concept," he said, "and I've always recognized that. It's not the perfect game; it's not the multiplayer experience, and it never can be, [with] the absolute spark that I want in it." I don't know why he has said this.. About his own game. It kills me that he won't even finish what he had first started. Since then I just felt like the game is crushed. I have not played it since, fps just keeps getting worst, and the game is not really moving forward, but backwards. I just wish things could be better. Either finish what you started, or you should have not made Day Z. Sorry I just feel like Day Z can't go on without its "Father".  :unsure: 

Edited February 26, 2014 by 360Nation