Why DayZ is no survival game

[Whyherro123 2283]

Wrong, open enough cans with a screw driver it becomes dull and rusted and you should get tainted food

Why? What sort of dumbass doesn't wipe off their tools after they use them. ESPECIALLY ones involving food?

Also, you can totally open a can without a goddamn can-opener.

[Whyherro123 2283]

 

Better aiming skills, faster reloading, and enhanced stamina seem a little uncalled for.  

 

 

Why not? As you use a firearm more in real life, you become more "used" to its particular quirks, and get more accurate, more proficient at reloading the weapon, etc.

I would like to see a weapon skill system similar to that of World of Tanks; Each tank has specific characteristics, like top speed, turret turning speed, reload time, etc. Your crew starts out at 50%, meaning they perform at 50% of the tanks characteristics due to inexperience. As your crew gets better, they obviously perform better, until they reach 100%,meaning they perform at 100% of the tanks specifications, but no better. At this point, they also unlock additional skills, like increasing the turning speed of your tank on rough ground (represents an in-depth knowledge of the engine, and how to push it), being better able to reload specific shell types (due to ingrained muscle memory.) A tank with 100% crew, good modules, and effective skills is a machine to be feared. but you most certainly can be killed by a noob if you make a foolish tactical mistake, or do something stupid. You aren't God, just more experienced.

And this proficiency doesn't cross tanks, either. Crew members lose proficiency (ranging from a little, when changing between tanks in the same class, or it can be a LOT, if changing between classes) when retraining on different tanks, affecting battle performance.. So, in Day Z, you can become really good with a Mosin due to (extensive) practice, but absolutely suck at using the M4, because you've never used one before.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Add more zombies, much much more zombies, and you will have a better zombie survival game. The fact that there is no danger as long as you play away from coast, is the reason why this game isnt a survival game. There is nothing stopping you from looting buildings, hopefully with the new engine (which will take time to finish), we will get more zombies.

Alpha has nothing to do with it not being a survival game, it was lack of development due to RV engine.

I really hope chernaurus gets flooded with true slow zombies and not the current super athletes, who seem to be immune to melee weapons.

[Wayze 549]

What people don't realise is that you can add an infinite number of features that make survival harder or make the game seem more "realistic", if there is no need for survival, the game cannot be defined a survival game (IMO). Why? Because, even if you get hungry, even if you die of thirst, even if you lose some stuff when dying, if the death doesn't really matter, nobody will ever care about survival. The whole design of the game makes a real intense survival expirience in end-game almost impossible:

A) You can store everything you need on a server that is always empty due to central hive servers and (later on) tents/bases  -> Death means nothing if you have established a camp

B] You can survive for however long you want, in the end it is ONLY the gear that defines the value of your character

C) It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to die if you TRY to survive, if you focus ONLY on survival, this game is the biggest peace of cakes in gaming history, I have very high doubt that this aspect will ever change, no matter how far in development

D) The focus of the game is keeping the gear you have, not having your character survive, you don't use the gear to survive, you use your life to keep your gear

 

For me C) is the reason why DayZ NEVER was and NEVER will be a real (hardcore) survival game. If you try to, you can survive forever, the challenge is zero. Surviving in DayZ is the MOST boring thing you can do.

 

 

If surviving in a game is by far the most BORING thing you can do, how can you call it a survival game?

Edited June 18, 2014 by Wayze

[JPWiser 251]

Tell me you'd jump to your death with your first pair of nvgs.... No way

Plus... Dayz isn't a game yet, nuff said

[Wayze 549]

 

Tell me you'd jump to your death with your first pair of nvgs.... No way

Plus... Dayz isn't a game yet, nuff said

Well, I can store the NVGs, and I will, because I won't take the risk of dying by stupid KoS, right? So you are saying the game turns into a survival game when you find NVGs? So, you need one of the rarest items ingame to have a survival game? Okay...

 

Plus... DayZ is a game yet.

[JPWiser 251]

Well, I can store the NVGs, and I will, because I won't take the risk of dying by stupid KoS, right? So you are saying the game turns into a survival game when you find NVGs? So, you need one of the rarest items ingame to have a survival game? Okay...

Plus... DayZ is a game yet.

If you think it's a game now then sir, I think we've found the problem.

When zeds are as abundant as the mod except they climb stairs and run in buildings, and there is a ton of rare loot like nvgs that are really difficult to obtain for various reasons, among everything else that is to come when dayz becomes a fully functional game, then we'll talk. But I bet you won't be there to see that as per your mentality about the alpha development of this up and coming game...

Edited June 18, 2014 by JPWiser

[rodolfoxiii 71]

The real question you should be asking is:

 

What is DayZ?????

Edited June 18, 2014 by silverman

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Upon death DayZ should automatically uninstall which means you have to purchase again.  Now that'd be a true survivor game.

 

Btw, stupid thread is stupid.

[Wayze 549]

If you think it's a game now then sir, I think we've found the problem.

So, just because it's alpha or buggy, it's not a game?  :lol:

[JPWiser 251]

So, just because it's alpha or buggy, it's not a game? :lol:

It's a game in development... Quite different... Judging it in any sort of way at this point is senseless

[Legio23 82]

No skills or level ups are needed in this game, the whole idea of the game is to create a sense of realism within it. Its trial and error not because you read some 'book' or 'magazine' you can suddenly make rockets or know aerodynamics, I exagerate but I think the point is clear. Nor should there be a skill or level increase because you have survived x amount of hours.

 

One of the great things I enjoy about this game is its a level playing field, some people are quicker on the uptake or more skilled than others but at least everyone gets a fighting chance to start with as its all about the player, not ingame advantages apart from equipment. Is it fair for geared up guys to take out new spawns? I don't think so but its part and parcel of the game and everyone has an equal possiblity of being taken out by bandits or zombies but also the same chance of finding loot and other gear too its just how the game is played.

 

Loot is luck of the draw simple as that, some guys get lucky and find a key piece of kit quickly others have to hunt around for it, same thing happens in the real world people.

 

I've seen a lot of banter on this thread, people saying its boring just to run around and find gear, well sorry but in a real survival situation wouldn't that be what you would do? run around foraging food and finding equipment to better survive and defend yourselves ?

 

So for myself it would have to be a huge resounding no to any form of skill or level up system.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Legio23

[UltimateGentleman 355]

realism

One of the great things I enjoy about this game is its a level playing field, some people are quicker on the uptake or more skilled

 

It can't be realistic and have a level playing field, everyone is different and has different skills in an apocalypse situation if we were to fight I might have way better aiming skills than you and kill you instantly.

But in this game nobody can really be more skilled than anyone else, everyone's guns sway around exactly the same way like all the characters are clones or something.

 

A skill book system is retarded yes but an experience system isn't it just shouldn't have a menu or anything. Like if you use a bandage 40 times you should be able to use them 2 seconds faster.

Loads of minor boosts to things like that would make it realistic, people improve their survival skills over time. In DayZ the only thing you can improve is your aiming but your guy still can't hold the gun properly no matter how much he's used it, which isn't how it works in real life.

 

I've seen a lot of banter on this thread, people saying its boring just to run around and find gear, well sorry but in a real survival situation wouldn't that be what you would do? run around foraging food and finding equipment to better survive and defend yourselves

 

In a real survival situation everyone wouldn't just shoot each other on sight, it is very boring having no long term goal progression would add that you could survive for 400 hours and be excellent at cooking, applying bandages, have a more steady aim, faster reload time, greater stamina(when that's a thing) and greater resilience to food poisoning and colds.

Tell me what would be bad about that, honestly what about that would make it a terrible game?

 

People should be rewarded for surviving if you're not rewarded in any way once you get all the food and gear you need...what are you supposed to do? Play the game another 20 hours when you have nothing left to find?

Edited June 19, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[ld-airgrafix 403]

No skills or level ups are needed in this game, the whole idea of the game is to create a sense of realism within it. Its trial and error not because you read some 'book' or 'magazine' you can suddenly make rockets or know aerodynamics, I exagerate but I think the point is clear. Nor should there be a skill or level increase because you have survived x amount of hours.

 

One of the great things I enjoy about this game is its a level playing field, some people are quicker on the uptake or more skilled than others but at least everyone gets a fighting chance to start with as its all about the player, not ingame advantages apart from equipment. Is it fair for geared up guys to take out new spawns? I don't think so but its part and parcel of the game and everyone has an equal possiblity of being taken out by bandits or zombies but also the same chance of finding loot and other gear too its just how the game is played.

 

Loot is luck of the draw simple as that, some guys get lucky and find a key piece of kit quickly others have to hunt around for it, same thing happens in the real world people.

 

I've seen a lot of banter on this thread, people saying its boring just to run around and find gear, well sorry but in a real survival situation wouldn't that be what you would do? run around foraging food and finding equipment to better survive and defend yourselves ?

 

So for myself it would have to be a huge resounding no to any form of skill or level up system.

Im a no for levelling and skills, but there should be some form of reward for keeping your character alive, perhaps stamina or strength increased slightly, running around for days with a heavy backpack will either result in a broken back or muscle gain.

Maybe it will take an extra punch or two to knock out this experienced survivor.

No nvg's pls, no helicopters or tanks, this game needs to make you feel desperate not comfortable inside a tank. We should have to make decisions whether "that house is worth looting or not, will i come out alive if i enter that town, but if i dont go there im dead anyway. ". To me thats survival, not the current pvp

[Legio23 82]

 

realism

One of the great things I enjoy about this game is its a level playing field, some people are quicker on the uptake or more skilled

 

It can't be realistic and have a level playing field, everyone is different and has different skills in an apocalypse situation if we were to fight I might have way better aiming skills than you and kill you instantly.

But in this game nobody can really be more skilled than anyone else, everyone's guns sway around exactly the same way like all the characters are clones or something.

 

A skill book system is retarded yes but an experience system isn't it just shouldn't have a menu or anything. Like if you use a bandage 40 times you should be able to use them 2 seconds faster.

Loads of minor boosts to things like that would make it realistic, people improve their survival skills over time. In DayZ the only thing you can improve is your aiming but your guy still can't hold the gun properly no matter how much he's used it, which isn't how it works in real life.

 

I've seen a lot of banter on this thread, people saying its boring just to run around and find gear, well sorry but in a real survival situation wouldn't that be what you would do? run around foraging food and finding equipment to better survive and defend yourselves

 

In a real survival situation everyone wouldn't just shoot each other on sight, it is very boring having no long term goal progression would add that you could survive for 400 hours and be excellent at cooking, applying bandages, have a more steady aim, faster reload time, greater stamina(when that's a thing) and greater resilience to food poisoning and colds.

Tell me what would be bad about that, honestly what about that would make it a terrible game?

 

People should be rewarded for surviving if you're not rewarded in any way once you get all the food and gear you need...what are you supposed to do? Play the game another 20 hours when you have nothing left to find?

You are taking parts of sentences from what I posted and using them out of context, anyone can do that to create their arguement. Of course if people continue to practice something, generally they improve over time, I wouldn't take shooting as I've known guys who have been shooting for over 20 years and they're still useless but yes generally people become more proficient with practice I know I have within the different facets of what I do.

 

What I did say was and this is where I oppose is any form of level up system or 'skill' system just because someone has read a book or survived x amount of hours and I also stated, which you left out, was 'but at least everyone gets a fighting chance to start with as its all about the player, not ingame advantages apart from equipment'.  So once again part of a sentence taken out of context can be turned to mean anything.

 

But again each person has the right to their opinion

 

Plus in an apocolypse situation I think my particular skillsets would be very useful especially my aim ;)

Edited June 19, 2014 by Legio23

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Skill will never happen until mods ruin the game.  Then you can play Hello KittyZ with all your skillz and have a gay ol`time

[UltimateGentleman 355]

You are taking parts of sentences from what I posted and using them out of context, anyone can do that to create their arguement. Of course if people continue to practice something, generally they improve over time, I wouldn't take shooting as I've known guys who have been shooting for over 20 years and they're still useless but yes generally people become more proficient with practice I know I have within the different facets of what I do.

 

What I did say was and this is where I oppose is any form of level up system or 'skill' system just because someone has read a book or survived x amount of hours and I also stated, which you left out, was 'but at least everyone gets a fighting chance to start with as its all about the player, not ingame advantages apart from equipment'.  So once again part of a sentence taken out of context can be turned to mean anything.

 

But again each person has the right to their opinion

 

Plus in an apocolypse situation I think my particular skillsets would be very useful especially my aim ;)

 

Sorry I wasn't meaning to take it out of context is just that's what everyone says they go ahead and say it's not realistic to improve and then explain that it is or just fail to understand that it is.

 

It doesn't give anyone any real "advantage" everyone can improve their skills, the point is people have actually put the work in for them it's not just run to heli crash site pick up M4 and instantly be a shooting god compared to someone who just found an SKS.

 

It doesn't really matter about the player you can't be that much more skillful than someone else the only things you have an influence on are your aiming(getting used to the pre-determined sway patterns anyway), sense of direction and combat tactics.

That's it, that's all the variety to player talent in the game everyone else takes the same amount of time to bandage, eat, hop over fences, reloads and building.

 

Wouldn't you rather be killed by a bandit who had excellent aim and know that they had to survive for ages to get their aim that good? Instead of just picking up any old thing off the ground and being able to shoot like a trained soldier.

Or that your character is skilled with guns and when met with a group of bandits you can aim at them without your gun swinging about everywhere.

 

Your character can't adjust to the situation like a real person would, they of course can't just emulate your own skills but with a skill system you could at least build them up and make your character something like you are.

 

 

Skill will never happen until mods ruin the game.  Then you can play Hello KittyZ with all your skillz and have a gay ol`time

 

By skills I'm pretty sure nobody means like perks for infinite running or reduced falling damage just like an unseen 0/100 stat or something that once you get to 100 in whatever field aiming for instance your aim is as good as it can get in the game, etc.

 

How would that ruin it? Because you don't want someone who put effort in to training up their aim to shoot you since they can hold their gun slightly more steady?

I think it's you who wants the watered down easy game where everyone can do everything perfectly upon waking up on the ground.

 

It would actually add an amount of challenge to the game, if people started less proficient than they are now anyway.

It would actually make it hard if you took a long time to bandage yourself to begin with, maybe people would actually focus on surviving like we're supposed to instead of just shooting everyone like it's COD.

Edited June 20, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[Legio23 82]

UltimateGentleman

 

I think you and I agree on some points but just come at them from different angles. As I stated previously I don't want to see freeby generalised 'levelups', skill improvements etc just because someone has run around the map a few times and managed to stay alive for x amount of hours. 

Specific learner skills based on experience and proficiency I have no problem with in itself taking your example someone who uses a bandage once compared to someone who has used bandages hundreds of times or skinning an animal, the more you do it the faster and more proficient you become. Map and compass reading, terrain reading, stealth, situation reading, hunting and there are probably a few others besides that are purely player skills.

The idea of any weapons based skill increase is a tricky one, we all know there are hacks and cheats out there that give infinite ammo etc; for example a guy with an infinate mag goes out where he is reasonably sure not to be heard and then spends an hour or so aiming through and shooting his weapon to improve his skill without forfeiting ammo for less weapons swing or whatever now has an unfair advantage in my mind wouldn't you ?

[Gdaddy22 299]

This

is

Alpha

=)

Please add something to the topic or stop posting pointless statements, I know you know it's alpha but you don't know what alpha is. Alpha is so that people can find the game's flaws and fix them, and suggest new things. So any threads with new ideas or complainings about something in the game are right because they keep us with the knowledge that there are flaws that we need to fix

 

 

OP - I agree with you 100% and I've been aware of this problem since 2012 when I started playing the mod. I wish the developers would add more survival to the game instead of adding new items.

Dayz - Survival game with one gun would be 5x more interesting for me than DayZ - deatmatch with 1000 guns

Edited June 20, 2014 by Gdaddy22

[Jex 1104]

As far as I can make out, DayZ is a game about survival. Therefore the object of the game is to survive.

 

If you don't have the gumption to crawl to a hospital for a KM because you broke you're leg you are not a survivor.

 

If you can't fend of zombies with your axe you are not a survivor

 

If you can't make it into a town to scavenge food and die of starvation you are not a survivor.

 

If you can't craft items to survive, you are not a survivor.

 

If you don't take every conceivable action to survive every single encounter you find yourself in or find yourself giving up - you're not a survivor

 

If you can't fix your wounds or know what to do if you drink a whole bottle of alcoholic tinkture on top of Kelm Mountain with a friend just to see what it does and then die from it you ARE and idiot but you are NOT a survivor.

[Wayze 549]

It's a game in development... Quite different... Judging it in any sort of way at this point is senseless

Even a game in development is still a game... judging the roadmap of a game in any sort of way at this point can be very productive.

[BayZ (DayZ) 9]

Its not survival game cause if you cant find food you just changing server also with this method you can get a lot of ammo its bullshit.

[qww 287]

 

just because you will suicide to faster meet someone on other side of map, doesnt mean other player will.

some people do value characters life,

 

increase skills over lifetime is a horrible idea, like any other artificial mechanic that could be introduced.

 

if you find staying alive boring, try moving through a town on a busy server,

 

edit wow just realised thsi topic is from feb.

Edited June 21, 2014 by qww

[JPWiser 251]

Even a game in development is still a game... judging the roadmap of a game in any sort of way at this point can be very productive.

That's my point, your post is referring to the game now. Where yes you are right it's not much about survival at the moment for obvious reasons. Which also means youre not looking at the roadmap youre looking at what we have now or this whole thread would be irrelevant in your mind.

[pillock 850]

just because you will suicide to faster meet someone on other side of map, doesnt mean other player will.

some people do value characters life,

 

increase skills over lifetime is a horrible idea, like any other artificial mechanic that could be introduced.

 

if you find staying alive boring, try moving through a town on a busy server,

 

edit wow just realised thsi topic is from feb.

 

 

I don't like the idea of 'skills', either - shooting, crafting, medical ability, etc - it's too "gamey" and would rely on arbitrary stats.

 

But I do think characters should be developable in terms of their physical condition. If you look after yourself, keep yourself fit and healthy, illness and injury free, then you should see an increase in physical fitness. You can run longer, run faster, you are physically stronger, can hit harder, carry more weight, resist disease better, recover from minor injuries faster. These things should take a long time to develop, I think, but there should be noticeable difference in performance between your character who's been successfully surviving for weeks, and the crappy new spawn you have to use if you die.

 

That'd give much more value to your life as opposed to mere gear. After the inclusion of persistent loot storage, gear will potentially be easily replaceable, especially for organised groups. The time- and effort-earned physical prowess of the character would not be easily or instantly replaceable.