So if the M4 spawns are to be decreased dramatically as civilian weapons are added then...

[YassirX 54]

BACK to the topic...

 

 

Done it. The m4 is crazy accurate for an AR at distances over 500m. Checked it out at NWAF a while ago pot shottin zombies at opposite ends of the runway.

 

Yeah... and still people are complaining because they don't know how to play this game.

I hope the Devs never listen to the majority, the majority is average joe.

 

When a player grabs an M4 it has the standard attachments, it is not useless but it needs adjustments.

This means there is an additional process involved, as the player has to find those items to increase the effectiveness of the M4.

This progress should not be removed by increasing the advantages of the other attachments, the Standard Buttstock for example.

The CQB stand for Close Quarter Battle... not long Range shooting and still people expect it to have pin point accuracy at several hundred meters.

 

CQB Buttstock Definition:

It increases player turning rate while indoors, making it easier to maneuver around corners with the rifle shouldered and ready to fire. However, it also increases the dispersion (spray) of the rifle at range. - See more at: http://dayzintel.com/dayz-weapon-attachments/buttstock-cqb#sthash.LZ1xDf2u.dpuf

 

Its better than the MP-Buttstock when used in Narrow Cities/Buildings.

The Standard Equipped Buttstock (Buttock OE) seems to have high dispersion as well, while providing no advantages above the CQB.

 

I always go for Buttstock MP + Hanguard MP for maximal accuracy and medium/long range combat.

Edited February 2, 2014 by YassirX

[Jezza93 44]

Thanks for the great information Yassir.

[-Gews- 7443]

I think the m4 should have a drastic range penalty in the future.

On what basis? How about no...

I'd disagree with this on the basis that a 5.56 is a "stopping" round, and a 7.62 is a "fatality" round. The two rounds are designed for different effect when they hit flesh.

The purpose of the 5.56 was to reduce recoil and make ammunition lighter so soldiers could carry more of it. If you're saying the 5.56 was "designed to wound", that's something people have come up with in years since - back in WW2 people said the exact same thing about the .30 carbine round, designed to wound to occupy more of the enemy's manpower. That was not true either. Conjecture.

That the current damages are skewed is common sense - good example, everyone recognized pistols were severely underpowered in the DayZ mod. Having damage based entirely on muzzle energy is not a great idea. The differences between rifles aren't quite as bad as with pistols but the problem still exists. They buffed pistol damage for the standalone, but left the rifles the same as they were before.

Shot placement >>> whether the bullet came from an M16 or an M14.

[bfisher 561]

On what basis? How about no...

The purpose of the 5.56 was to reduce recoil and make ammunition lighter so soldiers could carry more of it. If you're saying the 5.56 was "designed to wound", that's something people have come up with in years since - back in WW2 people said the exact same thing about the .30 carbine round, designed to wound to occupy more of the enemy's manpower. That was not true either. Conjecture.

That the current damages are skewed is common sense - good example, everyone recognized pistols were severely underpowered in the DayZ mod. Having damage based entirely on muzzle energy is not a great idea. The differences between rifles aren't quite as bad as with pistols but the problem still exists. They buffed pistol damage for the standalone, but left the rifles the same as they were before.

Shot placement >>> whether the bullet came from an M16 or an M14.

 

Basic physics tells us that making a small bullet that travels faster gives you more bang than making a bullet larger.  F=m*v^2 and all that.

 

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing more variety of weapons.  AKs, other M16 and AR15 variants, weapons from other militaries, civilian hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols, etc.  More variety will also mean you have to scavenge more.  Right now every military spawn is an M4 shop.  It would be different if you had to mix in AK calibers and parts with your M4.

 

 

IMHO, the military bases should spawn former Soviet or NATO weapons, but what about having rare-ish spawns in houses for more exotic weapons?  Like you came across some gun nut's stash?  Force people to really explore all around the map if they want to find the good stuff.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

On what basis? How about no...

 

 

Umm maybe because right now it's ridiculously accurate at long ranges with no adjustment to zeroing whatsoever? Not to mention with the way damage is atm the M4 should NOT be a DMR. I kind of explained this lol xD I don't care what it does in real life, we're discussing for purposes of potential balance here

[Whyherro123 2283]

No but i just went to the Gander Mountain website and they sell full blown military/swat grade weapons super cheap. Its really super fucking scary how easy it is to get firearms in the states. I had no idea my local hunting shop even carried these weapons.

 

You can buy Sig Sauer 556 for about a couple hundred over 1k! Im like WTF?!!! Those are super effective AR/AK hybrids too.

No, they most certainly fucking aren't. Civilians in the US are disbarred from owning fully automatic weapons, unless you own a relatively hard-to-get license and are willing to spend a good amount of cash. Most people aren't.

 

If you aren't from the US, then you have an excuse, but if you are, do some goddamn research. Those "military/SWAT" weapons are single-shot semiautomatic firearms, styled in a certain physical sense that makes certain people along the US political system quiver in their boots because they look "scary".

[teufel937 49]

Actually Teuful there is a thread somewhere on the forum showing the accuracy difference of the M4 from Arma 2 to DayZ,and it's quite substantial.

I am just speaking in general of the weapon system it is really accurate, we qualify on 500m ranges with iron sights in the military...

Haven't played much of ArmAII but I do know that the accuracy isn't all that bad in DayZ IMO

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

I personally think that weapons being harder to come by for law abiding citizens is much more frightening, but you are entitled to your opinion :D

Did you just say weapons being harder to come by IRL was a bad thing? Surely I misread that.

[Zollicoffer 200]

Dude, Phillip Seymour Hoffman. I was going to post something worthwhile, but now I'm in shock and this is my way of dealing with it while holding back a tear.

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

No, they most certainly fucking aren't. Civilians in the US are disbarred from owning fully automatic weapons, unless you own a relatively hard-to-get license and are willing to spend a good amount of cash. Most people aren't.

If you aren't from the US, then you have an excuse, but if you are, do some goddamn research. Those "military/SWAT" weapons are single-shot semiautomatic firearms, styled in a certain physical sense that makes certain people along the US political system quiver in their boots because they look "scary".

Why would a civilian need a fully automatic weapon?

/facepalm

[Proper Gander 45]

Why would a civilian need a fully automatic weapon?

/facepalm

 

Certain cultural difference between the US and Canada, I guess.  In the States, people buy what they "want," and let everyone else worry about what they "need."

[Deathlove 2286]

No, they most certainly fucking aren't. Civilians in the US are disbarred from owning fully automatic weapons, unless you own a relatively hard-to-get license and are willing to spend a good amount of cash. Most people aren't.

 

If you aren't from the US, then you have an excuse, but if you are, do some goddamn research. Those "military/SWAT" weapons are single-shot semiautomatic firearms, styled in a certain physical sense that makes certain people along the US political system quiver in their boots because they look "scary".

Semi automatic or not there still deadly weapons regardless lol. But im not arguing per say.

 

On topic though more military grade weapons would also alleviate ppl wanting to find the M4A1 all the  time. There are plenty of semi automatics they could work with to if they have to.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Deathlove

[wartzilla 182]

Umm maybe because right now it's ridiculously accurate at long ranges with no adjustment to zeroing whatsoever? Not to mention with the way damage is atm the M4 should NOT be a DMR. I kind of explained this lol xD I don't care what it does in real life, we're discussing for purposes of potential balance here

You don't care about what it does in real life xdxdxdxd well too bad for you, this is a simulator. There's other games out there that care more about 'balance' than simulation, go play those.

[teufel937 49]

Ah damnit, let me figure this video out and then I will post it..


http://youtu.be/zOUi2nRfHh0?t=30s
 

 

Shows the shot groups of an M4 with all different attachments.

Magpul FTW.

Edited February 2, 2014 by teufel937

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't care what it does in real life, we're discussing for purposes of potential balance here

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1wkk96/opinion_balancing_is_for_cod_this_is_hardcore/

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

Umm maybe because right now it's ridiculously accurate at long ranges with no adjustment to zeroing whatsoever? Not to mention with the way damage is atm the M4 should NOT be a DMR. I kind of explained this lol xD I don't care what it does in real life, we're discussing for purposes of potential balance here

Balance is not important in this game, imho. This game is all about imbalance and dealing with it. You know, antigame and stuff...

I'd rather have it realistic/authentic.

 

This is not a TDM where you get to pick your class and weapon at teh start of the round, and go up against other players.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Ratiasu

[irishroy 1347]

YES ;)

chris torchia told on twitter, that the next patch will bring the ruger 10-22 (=hunting rifle)

[-Gews- 7443]

YES ;)

chris torchia told on twitter, that the next patch will bring the ruger 10-22 (=hunting rifle)

And since there's only one type of game to hunt...

[Deathlove 2286]

YES ;)

chris torchia told on twitter, that the next patch will bring the ruger 10-22 (=hunting rifle)

Are you sure it will actually physically be in the game and not just coded in there for a patch after this one on Wed?

[louist 163]

/fixed

second amendment :D

I agree to an extent. I think the m4 should have a drastic range penalty in the future. And to the people who would say,"Errrr bert Derthterx, the M-fer is ercurrate ern real lerf erp ter lerk fer-herndred yerds n sterf etc. etc." well I would say that you dont starve in 3 hours in real life, but it's about gameplay balance. M4 should be an awesome town clearing CQB weapon for the game, not an all-around DMR-AR

:D

Errrr Bert Dertherx, one of the wonderful things about basing ballistics and such off of real weapons is that they are already balanced out of game, to a point. Every weapons manufacturer is trying to produce the best weapon they can for a given role, which leads to some rather organic balancing before any such guns even enter the game, which makes it rather easy to "balance" them in game by simply simulating the actual behavior of the weapons as they exist.

Granted, there may be some arbitrary balancing, which is fine, but I hope it is limited to areas like availability, or perhaps some changes towards affective range to counter the rather poor view distance.

I don't think every weapon needs to be balanced against every other for the sake of gameplay. A lot of DayZ is about making the most of what you have. I'm not always packing the "best" of everything, because I rarely find them. But I still enjoy the hell out of a firefight.

That said, I sincerely believe some weapons are simply too powerful, to difficult to use and maintain, too uncommon in the world, to have a place in DayZ. Anything with a thermal sight falls into that list. I hope that doesn't come across as hypocritical.

[comikz 218]

I would like to see the M4A1 get a slight boost in the damage department, because sometimes it feels like it's not dealing as much as it should be.

I do agree on well-placed shots, and people needing to learn to tap/burst over spray-n-pray tactics, like others have said it is an accurate firearm, however damage feels disappointing at times.

[Deathlove 2286]

I would like to see the M4A1 get a slight boost in the damage department, because sometimes it feels like it's not dealing as much as it should be.

I do agree on well-placed shots, and people needing to learn to tap/burst over spray-n-pray tactics, like others have said it is an accurate firearm, however damage feels disappointing at times.

Even when its got all the right parts and there all in pristine it still feels slightly off. I get what your saying on that one.

[teufel937 49]

I still think some of the dispersion effects from attachments is kind of stupid.. because I have an M302/M203 on my issued weapon an M4, and yeah.. I still qualify at 500 meters iron sights no problem, as well as my nifty high speed ACOG which puts that 300 - 500 meter target right in your face.

[Deathlove 2286]

I still think some of the dispersion effects from attachments is kind of stupid.. because I have an M302/M203 on my issued weapon an M4, and yeah.. I still qualify at 500 meters iron sights no problem, as well as my nifty high speed ACOG which puts that 300 - 500 meter target right in your face.

You can crank the ACOG up to 700 in the game. But it dosnt zoom like the long range scope does.

[Scotch Bingeington 18]

Then will the M4 recieve the buff it realistically needs, threads in this forum have conclusively proven that it is much less accurate than it should be, they have also shown that the ACOG is only half the magnification it should be.

 

So as it is one of 4 primary firearms at the moment it is fair that it is,well, shit at medium+ range but as it does become one of the rarest weapons and as players with them are steadily killed off. Do you think it will be given it's realistic stats? Because personally I'd take the SKS anyday at the moment.

 

I know many for whatever reason feel the M4 actually needs a nerf not a buff, and maybe the damage could be reduced but the accuracy is certainly a different tale.

 

Just my 50 cents from someone who, doesn't actually know loads about firearms.

 

Yes. The M4 will definitely need a buff, if the spawn rate is lowered dramatically. That  is, of course..unless the civilian weapons are borderline useless. Which, nobody wants to see.