The current implementation of the logout timer is trollish.

[airtonix (DayZ) 22]

Nothing emotional about my reporting of the facts. They aren't going to tell you how to exploit the system that they have decided not to use. Even if they did implement it they aren't going to detail the exploits.

 

Your proposal failed in testing using whatever criteria they were testing it against. I don't know what that criteria was, but they know their systems better than I, or you for that matter. It doesn't come across as an edict from Dean, but rather a mutually discovered concensus that there was a failure and that the current implementation on the experimental servers was the best compremise they have to solve the issues as they see them.

 

I'll defer to Dean and the other Devs. They are the only ones at this time that have the whole picture available to them.

 

NOTE: The system they tested wasn't exactly the system you proposed in your OP, so I accept the mischaracterisation of your arguement. It doesn't materially effect my points so I'll let them stand as I have made them, with that proviso in mind.

 

You have to understand that I do want combat logging, server hopping and ghosting quelched.

 

But I truly believe that better network code, better server infrastructure and components, moving logic from the client to the server will make some of these problems easier to deal with.

 

I find it especially frustrating to discover that Dean Hall wasted time creating a half arsed implementation of something the gaming industry has already solved. In the software industry, we call this Not Invented Here Syndrome .

 

A logout timer wasn't required at this point in the Alpha, it just makes testing things harder now, and developing and testing it removed resources and time that could have been spent on bringing the first vehicle in, or bringing in tents, or many other new features that are more important.

 

 

The current implementation isn't even Diegetically explained... (Dayz could do with more diegetic UI btw, the compass is a good start.)

Edited February 2, 2014 by airtonix

[Solopopo 330]

Under no circumstances should you ever be looking at the main menu with your character still logged in. There should be a timer IN GAME before you log out. If you move it cancels. I've never disagreed with the devs more in regard to what they've impemented.

[Deathlove 2286]

Ok as an example i was in the middle of nowhere about 20 minutes ago next to a lone house afk for at least for 1 minute. Turned around and my character was being attacked by a military zombie got knocked out 4 times and nearly died but was able to fight back. Yeah logging out with this timer is going to be a pain unless theres a way to cancel it during a hard core fight for your life.

[musketeer 33]

Having to wait "X hours" before joining a new server, or face a penalty, is ridiculous... I personally feel that the logout timer should be kept in the in-game menu. So you stay on the menu for 30 seconds or whatever, and then you can press "disconnect". That way, you can abort the logout if someone tries to take advantage of you. The reason a waiting time to join a new server is stupid is because servers crash. If a server crashes, I don't want to wait 1 hour+ just to play again.  

[schmotto 32]

I think 30 secomds is too short. tweak it up a bit.

[Deathlove 2286]

I think 30 secomds is too short. tweak it up a bit.

If they tweak it up than there should be the option to cancel or have it canceled during a fight until your dead to make it fair if thats going to be done.

[SolidOwlPL 37]

Server crashed/restarted? Well let me just move you to a random location next to nothing. - Great idea. (and just in case you say this will happen after multiple server changes, there is always a possibility that the last chance you have server will crash and result in this)

 

For combat logging, it isn't a bad idea but I still prefer the current one. I mean srsly we should be happy that devs didn't do something like Rust where your body stays on the server (ofc this would be quite hard to achieve with the shared hives, etc...).

 

But quite frankly why should you get a choice of defending yourself right after you chose to quit the game? Sit down for 30sec and see what's going on around you but without the option to get back up again. Something happens to you during that time, clearly you didn't care if the area is safe to log out or not. Well at least you will witness 30sec of it.

 

Tbh i don't care for server hoppers, you might see them as a problem now - but once the new loot is added and the spawns are adjusted even 10 of them won't be able to clear out the whole city...

 

As long as there is no combat loggers.

[Rancor 90]

So have I understood this correctly, the timer starts when you're actually out of the game already? It seems a bit silly to have your character sit there as a helpless NPC for a while...

 

Is there a reason why the count down shouldn't start while in game? For example:

 

- Find a bush and sit down (f3).

- Press "log out".

- 30-60 second timer starts to tick down on your screen (timer length may be tied to the actions you have performed in the past 5 minutes).

- If you get up, move, perform an action or take damage, the timer stops and you need to repeat the process.

- Once the timer ticks down on your screen, you and your character are out of the game.

 

This way you would still have control of your character, and have a chance to react to an unexpected threat. While still keeping the timer, so people just can't run around a corner and vanish into thin air by logging out instantly.

 

That would suck... current system is fine... never get killed after i logged out.. stop whining

Edited February 2, 2014 by Rancor

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

Yeah thats REALLY going to screw up team play. Especially since not everyones going to get the server right the larger the group if there is miss-communicate

100% False. Didn't you notice the friends option? You literally can't join the wrong server with your mates. All you need is one guy who joins the intended server and the rest follow.

[dallas 5195]

No because the link explains nothing of how my proposed system can be exploited.

 

Dean Hall merely repeats that #2 is bad with obvious emotion but never actually demonstrates how it is bad. (as do you)

 

You back yourself into a corner, you cover the entrance, you pause your screen and while the 30 seconds time out, you can at anytime unpause the game and kill whoever enters the room to continue combat. That's what he calls ghost combat logging.

[Deathlove 2286]

100% False. Didn't you notice the friends option? You literally can't join the wrong server with your mates. All you need is one guy who joins the intended server and the rest follow.

I stand corrected but disconnections can really screw things up if its server side.

[ochn0e 38]

No because the link explains nothing of how my proposed system can be exploited.

 

Dean Hall merely repeats that #2 is bad with obvious emotion but never actually demonstrates how it is bad. (as do you)

 

The logout timer is not there to prevent server hopping. It's just to prevent combat logging.

If you're not a total retard you will find a place to log out safely.

 

If you can abort the process of logging out it defeats it's purpose.

For example: You're in a building and surrounded. The only option for you to avoid get shot at would be logging of. You try to log of and then you see a door open. You abort the process and the chances are 50/50 in the upcoming engagement.

You tried to cheat your way out of a situation and you aren't punished for it. That's a failed system right there.

[twingunz 308]

You back yourself into a corner, you cover the entrance, you pause your screen and while the 30 seconds time out, you can at anytime unpause the game and kill whoever enters the room to continue combat. That's what he calls ghost combat logging.

Isn't that a design flaw on their part then?

Currently in game you already sit down so if the system remained unchanged and they just added the ability to watch your char sit there (or force log if you want to leave it vulnerable) you would have to (obviously) stand back up which in itself takes time, then you would have to arm yourself (taking more time) this already leaves you at a disadvantage to the entering player / zombie / whatever else is to come, as why would anyone stay seated and let someone walk in and kill them without at least trying to get up? (how it currently works seeing we are completely unaware to what is happening to our char in game).

Don't get me wrong i like this new system A LOT it's a huge improvement, dare i say i love it and how it punishes people trying to exploit the game, i just feel being able to oversee your character for the 30 seconds is reasonable and logical, as even when i'm logging out i should have the ability to be able to defend myself if someone happened to be stalking me and i was unaware or if a zombie randomly beats on me (and also what happens when / if they add aggressive wildlife? nowhere will be safe) it just seems silly that my char just sits there and takes anything that happened to stumble along!

Again i am not complaining about the current system it's great, i just think it can be improved further to protect your own character but still leaving you somewhat vulnerable.

[weedmasta 784]

 

 

Current System

• You find a safe place (a fallacy, there are no safe places in dayz)
• You assess the surroundings and determine you would most likely stay alive for the next 30secs
• you press escape and choose exit
• you are now looking at the main menu.
• your character is still in game sitting down for the next 30secs.

 

Does It Stop Combat Logging

Yes.

 

Does it stop Ghosting?

No

 

Does it stop Loot Hopping?

No

 

Are there negative side effects?

Yes.

 

 

Improved System

 

Ok, So now that I've sufficiently twisted your panties and wound you up for a tear streaming session, lets talk about how it should happen.

 

Prevent Server Hopping & Prevent Ghosting

 

Switching server(or server group) within X hours of joining current server(or server group) results in :

• you being moved to a random location on the map
• That location will not be near other players or high value loot locations.

Switching Server after X hours, results in :

• You remaining in the same location

 

The benefits of this are

•   Loot Hoppers will be facing a far amount of time running to new high value loot locations each time they change
•   Ghosters will find that they are now facing a long trek to attempt their "flanking" manuvure. 

 

The downsides are

• Players performing a quick legitimate server change will find themselves in new locations.

 

Prevent Combat Logging

• You find a safe place (a fallacy, there are no safe places in dayz)

  • ensure you are not in a status of combat.

  • You assess the surroundings and determine you would most likely stay alive for the next 30secs

• You press escape and choose exit

• Your character is sitting down for the next 30secs watching a timer.

  • At this point you are only able to stand back up or move your head.

  • Head movement will not cancel the logout timer process.

  • Standing or clicking the cancel button will cancel the logout process.

• Someone finds you before the timer ends? move and defend yourself. simple. logout prevented.

  • You will then be in combat for the next 60secs.

Can it be abused

No. Don't agree with me? provide an example of how it can be abused.

 

 

There is a group of people that hate the idea that someone logging out can cancel the logout and defend themselves.

The only reason I can think of that someone wouldn't like that is because it means they can't catch people in the process of logging out undefended.

 

 

Someone clearly didn't read the patch notes.

 

 

 

 

• Login: Player queuing system introduced. Penalty waiting time added for switching server or disconnecting a server quickly
• Login: Players receive a login timeout when disconnect, increased if disconnect within 30 minutes of joining (max 5 minutes)

[Deathlove 2286]

Isn't that a design flaw on their part then?

Currently in game you already sit down so if the system remained unchanged and they just added the ability to watch your char sit there (or force log if you want to leave it vulnerable) you would have to (obviously) stand back up which in itself takes time, then you would have to arm yourself (taking more time) this already leaves you at a disadvantage to the entering player / zombie / whatever else is to come, as why would anyone stay seated and let someone walk in and kill them without at least trying to get up? (how it currently works seeing we are completely unaware to what is happening to our char in game).

Don't get me wrong i like this new system A LOT it's a huge improvement, dare i say i love it and how it punishes people trying to exploit the game, i just feel being able to oversee your character for the 30 seconds is reasonable and logical, as even when i'm logging out i should have the ability to be able to defend myself if someone happened to be stalking me and i was unaware or if a zombie randomly beats on me (and also what happens when / if they add aggressive wildlife? nowhere will be safe) it just seems silly that my char just sits there and takes anything that happened to stumble along!

Again i am not complaining about the current system it's great, i just think it can be improved further to protect your own character but still leaving you somewhat vulnerable.

Especially if they decide to make some undead animals like bears and wolves or whatever. Than your really screwed.

[weedmasta 784]

 

 

There is a group of people that hate the idea that someone logging out can cancel the logout and defend themselves.

The only reason I can think of that someone wouldn't like that is because it means they can't catch people in the process of logging out undefended.

 

 

Really, so you don't like combat loggers but you want to give them the chance to defend themselves? That makes absolutely no sense. If you are in a combat situation and try to combat log, you shouldn't have the option to cancel it and instead bear the full penalty of your action instead. It is your choice to combat log after all, you should live with the consequences or don't combat log. Simple as that.

[ochn0e 38]

I just feel being able to oversee your character for the 30 seconds is reasonable and logical, as even when i'm logging out i should have the ability to be able to defend myself if someone happened to be stalking me and i was unaware or if a zombie randomly beats on me (and also what happens when / if they add aggressive wildlife? nowhere will be safe)

 

If a zombie can catch up to you in 30sec and beat you to death you should question what you were thinking in the first place and if someone really manages to stalk you he kinda deserves the kill.

 

Especially if they decide to make some undead animals like bears and wolves or whatever. Than your really screwed.

Really ? Most creatures are stationary until they see you. They don't wander around the woods. If this is a problem yeah well... I'm sorry for you.

[weedmasta 784]

If a zombie can catch up to you in 30sec and beat you to death you should question what you were thinking in the first place and if someone really manages to stalk you he kinda deserves the kill.

 

Really ? Most creatures are stationary until they see you. They don't wander around the woods. If this is a problem yeah well... I'm sorry for you.

 

It really seems people are looking for all kinds of excuses not to have a logout timer. Really shows how they play the game, disappointing.

[Window Licker 504]

This thread is borderline trollish, The implementation of a 30 second logout timer it awesome, the implementation of a penalty for server hoppers is awesome. 

 

The screen goes grey for 30 secs still see whats happening crowd, this is still combat logging, you sit with your fingers crossed watching hoping that they don't find you.  For the people who think that zombies are going to eat them in the woods, aside from never running into zombies in the woods how about some situational awareness.  Stop where you intend to logout, maybe eat something so you don't need to when you log back in whatever if your not intelligent enough to have a look about maybe you deserve to die.

 

Number of people I've ran into in the woods = 0 in 117 hrs of play and several trips all over the place I've never seen a single person running thru the woods. It's not rocket surgery folks, if you think about the common destinations and the usual places people go when starting you know approximately how they are going to get there, I always grab a compass because the woods are the safest place to be, you can run as fast as you can and no-one's gonna shoot you.

 

finally to the one person who said that making this timer was time wasted they could have used to put a car or new stuff ingame, the art department doesn't handle this shit.

 

I will say one thing about this thread and a few others I've seen like it...

 

It's amazing the bullshit, imaginary 1 in a billion chances of actually happening scenarios that people will present as a common event which make the system they are arguing against useless and broken.

 

OP I disagree with your opinions as outlined above

 

other then that I'm letting my bean's do the talking....

[twingunz 308]

Really, so you don't like combat loggers but you want to give them the chance to defend themselves? That makes absolutely no sense. If you are in a combat situation and try to combat log, you shouldn't have the option to cancel it and instead bear the full penalty of your action instead. It is your choice to combat log after all, you should live with the consequences or don't combat log. Simple as that.

But isn't that the whole point you want to engage them in combat, what is the fun killing a player sitting their AFK? It'll encourage combat loggers to react instead of try and be a bitch and Combat Log as they would sit there defenseless they can't just cancel it and own you they'd have to stand back up and pull out there gun again and really my cat can kill a combat logger lol

 

If a zombie can catch up to you in 30sec and beat you to death you should question what you were thinking in the first place and if someone really manages to stalk you he kinda deserves the kill.

It's not about them killing you it's about it's silly that your character just sits there and takes it, i'm playing the 'authentic' / 'realism' card here. It's illogical and silly that your character is 100% defenseless, as even if you were asleep you would wake up and try and fight it off not continue your nap.

[weedmasta 784]

But isn't that the whole point you want to engage them in combat, what is the fun killing a player sitting their AFK? It'll encourage combat loggers to react instead of try and be a bitch and Combat Log as they would sit there defenseless they can't just cancel it and own you they'd have to stand back up and pull out there gun again and really my cat can kill a combat logger lol

 

It's not about them killing you it's about it's silly that your character just sits there and takes it, i'm playing the 'authentic' / 'realism' card here. It's illogical and silly that your character is 100% defenseless, as even if you were asleep you would wake up and try and fight it off not continue your nap.

 

No, it gives them the opportunity to weigh the situation, i.e. if it is safe to combat log or not and combat loggers should not have that luxury.

It is silly that you are playing the realism card in this instance. This is a game after all and there have to be certain measures to prevent people from abusing certain things, i.e. in this case combat logging. 

 

It is very similar in Eve Online, if you log out in space without aggro, you stay in space for 30-60 seconds. If you do the same with agro you stay in space for 15 minutes. (i think it is 5 minutes for PVE agro). Well there is no agro in SA atm but you get the point.

 

Also if you are unable to find somewhere safe to logout and survive for 30 seconds you are clearly playing the wrong game or you are just bad at it.

[ochn0e 38]

 i'm playing the 'authentic' / 'realism' card here.

 

Don't care sorry.

[Brok21k 38]

The current login idea takes very little effort (on scripting and load on the server).

 

 

The team have mountains of ideas to implement, and the game is already riddled with bugs, while the server load is pushed to the max. 

 

They key for now is to find a low impact idea, and tweak it to make it more effective.

 

Would rather fine tune timeout log in penalties. Or suggest ideas that don't have to add load to the game server.

 

E.g.

 

Adding a Check, which counts your loot between servers. So if it's increased and you've jumped multiple times in 30min, block them for much longer periods ie 24hrs

[twingunz 308]

No, it gives them the opportunity to weigh the situation, i.e. if it is safe to combat log or not and combat loggers should not have that luxury.

It is silly that you are playing the realism card in this instance. This is a game after all and there have to be certain measures to prevent people from abusing certain things, i.e. in this case combat logging. 

 

It is very similar in Eve Online, if you log out in space without aggro, you stay in space for 30-60 seconds. If you do the same with agro you stay in space for 15 minutes. (i think it is 5 minutes for PVE agro). Well there is no agro in SA atm but you get the point.

 

Also if you are unable to find somewhere safe to logout and survive for 30 seconds you are clearly playing the wrong game or you are just bad at it.

I still disagree that system has worked in countless other games, it still puts you at risk as 9 times out of 10 the person who see's who 1st wins.

If you see and logging out player and shoot at him and he has enough time to press cancel, then stand up then arm himself, then take aim and shoot i mean he should be dead already! most of my gunfight confrontations are over with within a second unless there are multiple aggressors, I just do not see how it gives or rewards anyone as they are still disadvantaged. I don't combat log myself ever and have only come across a handful who have logged on me so maybe i'm just exempt to this.

Again i stress! i love the new system and by far not complaining about it and no way ever want it removed, i'm just stating on what i feel would improve it further imo; just reinforcing that haha

Edit: grammar, spelling misused words the usual lol one day i'll learn to proof read before i post.

Edited February 2, 2014 by twingunz

[Deathlove 2286]

If a zombie can catch up to you in 30sec and beat you to death you should question what you were thinking in the first place and if someone really manages to stalk you he kinda deserves the kill.

 

Really ? Most creatures are stationary until they see you. They don't wander around the woods. If this is a problem yeah well... I'm sorry for you.

If they do decide to make aggressive animal mobs than im sure they could see you a mile away like the zombies can. So its really not a matter of stealth until they fix things NPC wise. To where croutch and prone actually mean something. Because you can go into a place prone and sometimes it wont matter regardless.