How to fix KoS and banditry with this great system

[General Zod 1118]

My personal experience (found a vest yesterday) was that as soon as I saw a server hopper, he mic'd, "I'm not going to hurt you" although I saw his gun was raised and I just got that gear right around the area he logged on. He proceeded to shoot me and take my vest. Had I had a weapon and ammo, he may have thought the risk of losing his own gear was greater than gaining one piece from me.

" Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong"

If he shot you and you dies you vest was ruined, unless he shot you in the head.

Also If you died how do you know he took your vest ? Did you went back to your body ?

[kikiwrx 0]

" Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong"

If he shot you and you dies you vest was ruined, unless he shot you in the head.

Also If you died how do you know he took your vest ? Did you went back to your body ?

You answered your own questions, pretty common sense there.

 

Instead of being a troll, why don't you put on your big boy pants and use your words? What in my post do you disagree with? I'm assuming (with the complete lack of thought you used) that you want all guns to be scarce, and ammo to be even more scarce. If so:

 

-Your ability to defend yourself against a bandit/KoS'r has just been drastically reduced

 

-You have now gave the top 5% of people who have farmed out weapons another significant increase in power over those who weren't so lucky, thereby increasing the chance that others will follow suit. Since it's even harder to gear, their trust for others will drastically reduce as well

 

-You've made the game a much bigger RNG king leading to the next point

 

-You've increased the amount of server hoppers you will now see due to more farming of the same popular spots because of lower wep/ammo %'s. On top of that, you now increase the chance that people won't want to lose gear, unintentionally increasing the amount of combat logging people.

 

-Due to above point, you are now even LESS likely to be able to find a weapon, and when you do, again, you are more likely to be KoS'd because of supply/demand.

 

Some of my points may be fixed due to patches depending on what they decide to do with combat-log/server hop but a lot of these points still hold true. Let me also clarify that in my post above, I specify that HANDGUNS should be more readily available. If you want to make M4's and other weapons lower % to find, sure, I will take that but again, an assault rifle equipped player should/will have little problem disposing of a melee weapon equipped player.

Edited January 22, 2014 by kikiwrx

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Any particular reason why mods dont merge all these KOS threads?...daily ppl make new threads about the KOS topic. Its getting annoying and its cluttering up the forum.

 

Because not everyone wants to be a KOS kiddie.

 

Either join in helping fix the system so it's not 95% bandit KOS, or put up with more and more and more forum threads about it. 

 

You can't have it both ways.  Fixed game, or put up with the forum topics.  Your choice.

[General Zod 1118]

You answered your own questions, pretty common sense there.

 

Instead of being a troll, why don't you put on your big boy pants and use your words? What in my post do you disagree with? I'm assuming (with the complete lack of thought you used) that you want all guns to be scarce, and ammo to be even more scarce. If so:

 

-Your ability to defend yourself against a bandit/KoS'r has just been drastically reduced

 

-You have now gave the top 5% of people who have farmed out weapons another significant increase in power over those who weren't so lucky, thereby increasing the chance that others will follow suit. Since it's even harder to gear, their trust for others will drastically reduce as well

 

-You've made the game a much bigger RNG king leading to the next point

 

-You've increased the amount of server hoppers you will now see due to more farming of the same popular spots because of lower wep/ammo %'s. On top of that, you now increase the chance that people won't want to lose gear, unintentionally increasing the amount of combat logging people.

 

-Due to above point, you are now even LESS likely to be able to find a weapon, and when you do, again, you are more likely to be KoS'd because of supply/demand.

 

Some of my points may be fixed due to patches depending on what they decide to do with combat-log/server hop but a lot of these points still hold true. Let me also clarify that in my post above, I specify that HANDGUNS should be more readily available. If you want to make M4's and other weapons lower % to find, sure, I will take that but again, an assault rifle equipped player should/will have little problem disposing of a melee weapon equipped player.

But I don't like wearing pants, sitting around in my underwear is more fun. 

On a serious note, you said that "proceeded to shoot me and take my vest." sounds more like sprayed and prayed rather that just blew your head clean off. But never mind.

Ammo and guns should be scarce, to make you actually value what you have and consider shooting your gun rather than just walking around and dispensing hot lead on everything that moves. 

And yes it will hinder your ability do defend against bad guys, and that's should be, having a gun and ammo to shoot should be an advantage. 

This will also promote stealthy approach to looting places rather than people just running on the main street.

If the game is about survival than it has to be harsh and unforgiving. 

Also lower number of guns and bullets equals less KoS because not everyone has means to KoS.

Server hopping and combat logging will be dealt with accordingly,.

If you search most of the map and find nothing it's fine to change server once or twice. 

And yes once you gear up you will be a target, and this again will make you value your character and make you careful. Which is something this game lacks right now. You character is disposable, because you know with some luck you can get all gear in 2 hours. 

So yes making guns scarce will do more good than harm. 

Because if guns are rare and each bullets count there will be no more war war II re-enactment on the coast.

Edited January 22, 2014 by chmielu1258

[kikiwrx 0]

 

This will also promote stealthy approach to looting places rather than people just running on the main street.

If the game is about survival than it has to be harsh and unforgiving. 

Also lower number of guns and bullets equals less KoS because not everyone has means to KoS.

Server hopping and combat logging will be dealt with accordingly,.

If you search most of the map and find nothing it's fine to change server once or twice. 

And yes once you gear up you will be a target, and this again will make you value your character and make you careful. Which is something this game lacks right now. You character is disposable, because you know with some luck you can get all gear in 2 hours. 

So yes making guns scarce will do more good than harm. 

Because if guns are rare and each bullets count there will be no more war war II re-enactment on the coast.

First point, increase zombies in area, this takes care of that problem.

 

Second point, then they should decrease amount of water and food around then...cause this also makes survival more tough from what you just said

 

Lower number of guns also means players will want them more, increasing the chance someone wants what you have = HIGHER KoS, not lower. It also again, puts too much power in the hands of someone who has a gun. Like I said, simple supply/demand so not sure why you don't understand this.

 

You just flip flopped. Server hopping will be dealt with accordingly, but then you go on to say it's okay to do? Pick one and stick to it, because I have multiple OBVIOUS reasons this isn't going to work out the way you think it will. Either it's okay to server hop, in which case my points still hold, or it isn't okay, in which case again, those few players who were lucky to find higher quality gear will forever be in power. There is almost no stopping someone who has an assault rifle if guns are THAT hard to come by, regardless of ammo, especially if it still spawns in hot spots. Welcome to farmville where KoS is worse now than ever.

 

Correct, when you get gear you are more valuable. Problem is by making guns more scarce, how are you defending against someone who already has higher gear which would be near impossible to kill since you are stuck with a melee weapon? Again, simple logic, not sure why you don't understand this,

 

Wrong, as I've stated every single time. Making SOME guns more scarce will almost certainly do more good than harm, but making ALL guns and ammo more scarce will separate power levels of certain individuals way beyond what you are accounting for.

 

Perhaps there will be less over-all killing (i.e. pistol fights) but if you ever want to move up in the world (assault rifles and anything else higher end) the room for advancement is damn near 0% unless you are extremely lucky in which case you are able to be in the right place at the right time to find a gun spawn which again, with your suggested changes would be even more RNG than it is now.

 

My argument is simple. Less chance for higher end stuff, more chance for simple pistols (sure, less ammo is fine but we still need a ranged weapon for defense, although some will use them offensively) which brings player skill more into the equation and allows mid level people to be able to compete EFFECTIVELY for higher end gear against better geared people.

 

I respect your opinions though. Maybe they will meet somewhere in between.

[General Zod 1118]

First point, increase zombies in area, this takes care of that problem.

 

Second point, then they should decrease amount of water and food around then...cause this also makes survival more tough from what you just said

 

Lower number of guns also means players will want them more, increasing the chance someone wants what you have = HIGHER KoS, not lower. It also again, puts too much power in the hands of someone who has a gun. Like I said, simple supply/demand so not sure why you don't understand this.

 

You just flip flopped. Server hopping will be dealt with accordingly, but then you go on to say it's okay to do? Pick one and stick to it, because I have multiple OBVIOUS reasons this isn't going to work out the way you think it will. Either it's okay to server hop, in which case my points still hold, or it isn't okay, in which case again, those few players who were lucky to find higher quality gear will forever be in power. There is almost no stopping someone who has an assault rifle if guns are THAT hard to come by, regardless of ammo, especially if it still spawns in hot spots. Welcome to farmville where KoS is worse now than ever.

 

Correct, when you get gear you are more valuable. Problem is by making guns more scarce, how are you defending against someone who already has higher gear which would be near impossible to kill since you are stuck with a melee weapon? Again, simple logic, not sure why you don't understand this,

 

Wrong, as I've stated every single time. Making SOME guns more scarce will almost certainly do more good than harm, but making ALL guns and ammo more scarce will separate power levels of certain individuals way beyond what you are accounting for.

 

Perhaps there will be less over-all killing (i.e. pistol fights) but if you ever want to move up in the world (assault rifles and anything else higher end) the room for advancement is damn near 0% unless you are extremely lucky in which case you are able to be in the right place at the right time to find a gun spawn which again, with your suggested changes would be even more RNG than it is now.

 

My argument is simple. Less chance for higher end stuff, more chance for simple pistols (sure, less ammo is fine but we still need a ranged weapon for defense, although some will use them offensively) which brings player skill more into the equation and allows mid level people to be able to compete EFFECTIVELY for higher end gear against better geared people.

 

I respect your opinions though. Maybe they will meet somewhere in between.

That will work too. I'd like to see both.

Water and food are needed more than a gun, hence cannot be that rare, not until you can hunt.

How will less guns increase KoS if KoS is done almost exclusively with guns ? Guy with a melee weapon has to approach you, and you if didn't react to him coming or didn't see him coming you failed to watch your surrounding. It's not like he'll throw an axe at from 100 meters away.

Now server hopping is going to a base and switching it several times to get full gear fast and without travelling the map. Are you suggesting that when the server I'm currently on is looted dry I hang around for 4 hours waiting for new loot ? Or should be further, you are tied to one server for ever ?

And how in real life would you defend from a guy who has gun when you don't ? Because it seems devs are trying to make this game pretty realistic. And in real life after the apocalypse not every one has a gun. Sorry it becomes survival of the fittest. 

Yes it will make players with gun very powerful, again this game is not meant to be fair and nice. 

Also pistol will not help you against a guy with a rifle, he will kill you before you kill him assuming that he's stupid enough to move into the range of you puny pistol. 

 

It seems that you expect a bit too much fairness in this game, or maybe I'm expecting too much unfairness. All we can do is wait and see how things develop. 

Edited January 22, 2014 by chmielu1258

[GoldenKade 73]

I love when bandits attack me, it gives me a target to test my mosin on. There's nothing better than putting a bullet in a bandit's head from 700 meters away and watching his buddies freak out, running in each direction. 

[General Zod 1118]

 There's nothing better than putting a bullet in a bandit's head from 700 meters away and watching his buddies freak out, running in each direction. 

Pictures or it didn't happen

[irl-calibre 744]

Oh em effin' gee.. A RABBIT!! in the middle of the road.. look... a rabbit!! can you believe it? a rabbit!!

 

[General Zod 1118]

Yes there are rabbits, but they seem to be from Krypton because they can't be killed. 

[PiLLZ 55]

once you start restricting things in this game it becomes content driven and immediately loses its mystique, the fun of this game is that it's brutally hard and there is no help, you are your best advocate in this game, as soon as you start messing with stuff or start restricting players from doing what they want you kill the game, its not suppose to be easy its not suppose to be fair, the game being hard as it is makes it so much more interesting, encounters in this game make your heart race, i have never experienced fear like i do in this game, DON'T TOUCH A GODDAMN THING!

[ferroviere 5]

A lot of zombies should help. And when I say "a lot" I mean if you can imagine, for example, the streets in Berezino and fields around Berezino filled with zombies. Now some will say that it will have a bad influence in performances. Not completely true, if devs do the server architecture really good with multithreaded processing on the server and good optimization then it is very possible. 
What I was saying is, if they manage to implement a lot of zombies and balance the food and water spawning properly, people will have to go to the cities more common and of course to not have a chance against zombies if you are alone. That will really help against KoS and banditry people will be more occupied with zombies and actually will not have time to kill others. 

There is nothing here what I said that the thread creator haven`t already said. 

[phoboss 224]

once you start restricting things in this game it becomes content driven and immediately loses its mystique, the fun of this game is that it's brutally hard and there is no help, you are your best advocate in this game, as soon as you start messing with stuff or start restricting players from doing what they want you kill the game, its not suppose to be easy its not suppose to be fair, the game being hard as it is makes it so much more interesting, encounters in this game make your heart race, i have never experienced fear like i do in this game, DON'T TOUCH A GODDAMN THING!

What I'm "suggesting" doesn't really restrict you. On the contrary, I want the game to be even harder. And once that is the case, people will be forced to seek help from other players. And that is a good thing, because like I said, KoS is not realistic at all. 

[Bits (DayZ) 3]

New here, been perusing the forums; read this entire thread but haven't searched for other KoS threads (I gather there's a number of them).  Apologies in advance for trodding on well-traveled ground.

 

I think the definition provided:

 

KoS, obviously, stands for Kill on sight. Which means a KoSer is someone who kills every other player he sees for no reason other then the killing itself.

 

... misses the basic perspective of the complainant, that being the guy on the receiving end.  Usually a noob, often just spawned.  Essentially they're not a threat to anyone.  At worst, they're a nuisance.

 

In a different venue (long ago and far away) we referred to this practice as "clubbing baby seals."

 

I think that sitting on a hill with a scoped nugget waiting for people to run across a runway is altogether different than turning a corner and unexpectedly coming face-to-face with someone.  Both may result in somebody's death, but for different reasons, and with different motivations.

 

Inasmuch as some people would want to punish the former and forgive the latter, how about this:

 

For every player you kill, the damage you dole out (with any and all weapons) gets nerfed by some amount.  The more players you kill, the more you get nerfed.  Maybe it's a constant amount per player, maybe an increasing amount; whatever, the point is, killing another player costs you something material, ie the ability to kill something else (like another player... or a zed).

 

Your nerf is decreased by a constant amount every 24hrs.  Being nice does not help you, so there is no way to game the system... other than to make things more difficult for yourself.

 

Players that inadvertently, or only occasionally, kill other players won't be noticeably impacted; within a day or two they'll be completely de-nerfed and, in the meantime, maybe it takes an extra bullet or whack in the head to take down a zed.

 

Players that make a habit out of clubbing baby seals *will be* noticeably impacted; after ten or so kills (depending on the nerf scale) they may not be able to take down a zed with an entire 30rnd mag, and it might take a week for their nerf to go away.

 

For the vast majority of players, I don't think they'd even notice.  I seriously doubt a majority of players kill enough players often enough that they would ever get nerfed enough that they would recognize that it took three rounds instead of two to bring down a zed... it was either "one shot to the head" or it was "half a mag."  On the other hand, that small minority of players that set out to kill as many other players as they can find will very quickly find themselves in a deep hole that only a lengthy time-out will cure. Sure, they can still go on a killing spree, but only for a short time, and then they'll go away.  Eventually, I expect they'd get bored of not being able to kill anything, and they'd become much more discriminating in their killing... which is what everyone seemed to want in the first place.

 

I don't think this would have any direct affect on banditry, other than to possibly make things slightly easier, in that victims would be more inclined to cough up the goods, knowing that the bandits were less likely to kill them.  Maybe it moves KoS'ers into banditry, because it's easier and more lucrative?  Or, maybe KoS'ers (being the sick bastards they already are) find new levels of depravity to subject their victims to?  I don't know, but the sociology and psychology of the zombie apocalypse has always fascinated me...

[DirtyscumbagLith 270]

want to fix the bandit issue? force everyone to play on a nightserver.

 

a.) nobody can see anybody

b.) they will spend their money on another game & wont play dayz anymore

 

problem solved!

[shael6636 10]

 

why they don't just add a craftable bomb with a dead man's switch/trigger that sits in your backpack, hate kosers and not one yourself go looting with this. options could be...

 

-Destroys gear and body and kills anyone in a 15 meter radius.

-Only can be triggered by death.

-Can clearly see when you have it equipped, may not be able to equip any other weapon while it is.

-Takes a long time setting it up so kosers cannot just quickly switch when in trouble (say 1 minute)

-Could attract zombies in the area.

-Could be heard from 1 km away.

 

you will never stop people killing just to kill, but now you can guard yourself against people who want your gear, now they have to hold you up not just kos you.

 

My friends and I that play together have started using Discenfectant on a piece (or 2) of pristine fruit in our inventory.

 

Why?

 

Well if you decide to kill me for my gear instead of trying to internact and rob me you will have a nasty suprise if you eat the fruit (our personal way of getting revenge)

 

Personally we have done our fair share of KOS (out of bordem) but now we are trying to be the "hero" by helping the newer players and specifically hunting down the KOS players (not specifically the bandits).

 

It s more fun and stressful trying to control and encounter with another player than just KOS. More rewarding too when it works well

[Inception. 9443]

I agree, we should play the way we want.

For me, rape, torture, post birth abortion, and selling weed is the way I want to play.

Totally shouldn't be restricted.

 

The glorification of rape is not something that is welcome on the forums. Don't do it again.

[phoboss 224]

New here, been perusing the forums; read this entire thread but haven't searched for other KoS threads (I gather there's a number of them).  Apologies in advance for trodding on well-traveled ground.

 

[...]

 

Inasmuch as some people would want to punish the former and forgive the latter, how about this:

 

For every player you kill, the damage you dole out (with any and all weapons) gets nerfed by some amount.  The more players you kill, the more you get nerfed.  Maybe it's a constant amount per player, maybe an increasing amount; whatever, the point is, killing another player costs you something material, ie the ability to kill something else (like another player... or a zed).

 

Your nerf is decreased by a constant amount every 24hrs.  Being nice does not help you, so there is no way to game the system... other than to make things more difficult for yourself.

 

Players that inadvertently, or only occasionally, kill other players won't be noticeably impacted; within a day or two they'll be completely de-nerfed and, in the meantime, maybe it takes an extra bullet or whack in the head to take down a zed.

 

Players that make a habit out of clubbing baby seals *will be* noticeably impacted; after ten or so kills (depending on the nerf scale) they may not be able to take down a zed with an entire 30rnd mag, and it might take a week for their nerf to go away.

 

For the vast majority of players, I don't think they'd even notice.  I seriously doubt a majority of players kill enough players often enough that they would ever get nerfed enough that they would recognize that it took three rounds instead of two to bring down a zed... it was either "one shot to the head" or it was "half a mag."  On the other hand, that small minority of players that set out to kill as many other players as they can find will very quickly find themselves in a deep hole that only a lengthy time-out will cure. Sure, they can still go on a killing spree, but only for a short time, and then they'll go away.  Eventually, I expect they'd get bored of not being able to kill anything, and they'd become much more discriminating in their killing... which is what everyone seemed to want in the first place.

 

I don't think this would have any direct affect on banditry, other than to possibly make things slightly easier, in that victims would be more inclined to cough up the goods, knowing that the bandits were less likely to kill them.  Maybe it moves KoS'ers into banditry, because it's easier and more lucrative?  Or, maybe KoS'ers (being the sick bastards they already are) find new levels of depravity to subject their victims to?  I don't know, but the sociology and psychology of the zombie apocalypse has always fascinated me...

First I'd like to thank you for your feedback and the time you invested.

Usually these kind of suggestions get simple "No!" answer.

But since you're new and like you said haven't read much about the topic, I'll do you a solid and explain why most dayz veterans will hate your idea.

It's very simple actually, no matter the solution you come up with, you have to ask one question, "does it favor (or punish) a certain playstyle?". If you can even vaguely answer that with a "yes" then your idea will never get accepted by the community (or rocket for that matter).

Here's why, neither rocket nor the community want to implement features into the game, that force you to play a certain way. What ever that may be, it doesn't matter. If you HAVE to stop killing people because you have such a strong debuff, that it is impossible to kill anyone, before they kill you, then that is something that won't work for this game.

That's just the way it is. You will have to come to accept that.

There will NEVER be any game mechanic to stop people from KoSing, or to make life easier for either party (meaning different skins or what ever gets suggested here in the forum).

Its a sandbox, which means what ever your playstyle may be, it is encouraged. The game will get harder in the future, making certain playstyles less viable, but it will get harder for everyone equally, not just the players who choose to KoS a lot. 

 

Sometimes it's hard to understand why they would want that kind of behavior in a game, and the answer is: They don't (at least not in the magnitude it's currently happening). And they will address the issue later down the road. Just not with a feature/mechanic that punishes people that play this way, but rather by encouraging them to play differently. 

Edited January 24, 2014 by phoboss

[Bits (DayZ) 3]

...interesting...

 

I've been reading up on Rocket and the genesis of DayZ.  Very libertarian.

 

From the perspective of DayZ as a training tool, I can understand (and wholeheartedly agree with) an almost absolute hands-off approach.  Like you said, any construct or mechanism that would either promote or discourage a behavior or approach would be counter to the purpose of the training.

 

As a game, however, I don't know if that approach is really necessary or desirable. The basic purpose of the game (to have fun) seems more constrained to me, in that we all want to have fun -- but not everyone has fun in the same way.  And that's okay, as long as we can all have fun.  But when only a few of us are having fun, at the expense of other people having fun, then that's not okay.

 

Every other game I can think of has various mechanisms for directing certain styles of play, and this seems to be the accepted norm; not that I would want DayZ to be like every other game, but I think there's value in that general approach.  Consider MOH/COD/BF and the like; they all have team associations that are defined and enforced.  There are mechanisms that preclude and/or punish players that attack their teammates. Most of those games have an FFA mode, but it's rarely used.  And, most of those games have built-in and/or external mechanisms for kicking and banning players that violate the operator's notion of fun.

 

Speaking of FFA... if that style of gaming was in such high demand, I would have expected to see a lot more servers running in that mode.  I can't say that I ever counted, but my gut tells me that FFA servers represented less than 10% for any game I've ever played (and that's probably being generous).  Considering that this is a game -- and a commercial venture -- I expect there will be certain incentives (directives?) to make DayZ a financially rewarding endeavor, and that means playing to your base... which leans heavily away from the FFA genre.

 

I'd like to think there's a happy medium, somewhere between the traditional black-and-white, good-guys-vs-bad-guys formula that's been played to death.  I don't want static/enforced teams (although it would be a hoot to play a zed).  I want players to be "bad" if they want.  I want players to choose, but I think those choices should cost something.  If DayZ can make that happen, I'll be a happy camper.  So to speak.  (I don't camp)

 

Aside #1 -- I used to mod for MOH and COD, and I prototyped a system that nerfed damage for TK'ers; worked pretty well.  The trick is in getting the nerf rate correct, ie slow enough that the incidentals don't hurt a lot, but fast enough to take care of the griefers.

 

Aside #2 -- I tried running DayZ under wine last night (long story), mixed results.  BattlEye is borked under wine, and my internet connection is absolute crap at the moment, so there was only one server I could get into... and it was night.  Graphics were disappointing (my fault, not the game's) and I had massive control lag (again, my fault, not the games) but I was able to play for an hour or so without dying. Got thirsty, found some soda, punched a zed in the face and ran away, got jumped by two more zeds and took a beating, got away, nearly bled out, got bandaged, skulked around in the dark (using that flashlight is scary+dangerous), found some more loot, and never saw another living soul.  Creeped the heebeejeebeez outa me.

 

*sigh*  Looks like I'll need to rebuild that Windows partition...

[zaphodity (DayZ) 41]

You know why I like the KOS system ?....Because it's human nature. If society broke down in a zombie apocalypse, KOS is what would happen. It's honest,

and I like it. You KOS because you value your life in this game. You have no idea just how quickly everything outside your front door could completely break down, and how extremeIy close to vicious animals human beings really are, just look at children and teenagers, some of the most savage little buggers on the planet. Also liked DayZ Standalone because it's the most intense game I have ever played. There's no mindless running and gunning, then instant replay. You value your life, and it's the first shooter I've played that has conveyed that perfectly. And to me, that in and of itself makes this the best survival game out there. Kudos to The Dean Team.

 

KOS = Survival :

 

 

Scuse' the poor quality, only copy I could find. But the scene conveys KOS perfectly. KOS is what makes it DayZ.

Edited January 25, 2014 by zaphodity

[Vattenlarv 81]

I've only read the first post and I have to say that it's not only a well constructed and explained thought about the "issue" in DayZ, but also something that needs to be discussed and adressed by game developers, gamers, parents and whatnot. Games these days, especially games where one is allowed to carry a gun, focus on killing and killing only. DayZ is different and I think it even has the potential to change the way none-gamers view video games, usually as interactive murderous brainwashing platforms, to where they'd understand that a video game could be just as much of a social experiment.

 

Anyways, back to the "issue"!

 

Add a weight limit and a stamina system that interacts with health, hunger and thirst. If you're above your weight limit you will get out of breath and lose the ability to run or even jogg much faster. If you're carrying an entire arsenal and exceed your weight limit by miles you can only walk and thirst/hunger builds up more rapidly. Also remove the layer on layer possibilities in the inventory.

 

This would force one to carry necessities rather than only focusing on weapons and ammo. Bandits wouldn't get far hauling around an armory of weapons and they themselves would have to focus more on survival. It wouldn't force them to be friendly but they would most definitely find themselves in sticky situations more often where they could use the help of a friendly samaritan and his inventory capacity to make a fire, cook some steaks or just ask for medical assistance.

 

Bandits be bandits and heroes be heroes, just as it should be. But if a bandit finds himself in situations where he neeps help more often, that might just force feed him enough compassion to make him think twice before pulling the trigger.

[skypig 139]

*flips off Rant switch... almost got me with that subject line lol

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Like I said earlier, KoS can only be "fixed" fought by making the game harder, forcing people to play together and thinking about every shot they take. This means, zombies come from all around town when they hear a gun shot, basically making any shot inside a city a death warrant if your alone. A medical system that relies on a second person to help you (even more than it does now). Make food and water unevenly distributed, so that you actually have a reason to at least try and trade with other players. And a lot of other stuff to make human interaction actually valuable.

While I think that those are great suggestion (i.e. makings zombies more challenging and other mechanics that will encourage cooperation, which I understand those are already in the works, and they come on the heel of the health\energy mechanic that encourage slower paced game) I don't think that any of that will change the current game balance in any significant way.

* People always whine about PvP, even if the uncertainty that it brings is what makes the game soo exciting for them.

Especially in a slow pace game with perma-death, and an hour(?) average life time. The definition of who is Bandits and KoSer, would be skewed by paranoia and or wounded pride (Like who is hacker). Many will assume that anyone who got the drop on them is a filthy KoSer, bandit scum, even if in fact those were other "friendlies" misinterpreting their actions.

Overall people don't like to feel helpless or loose their hard earned stuff, and unlike nicely balanced and exploitable AIs, Human Players tend to offer in spades e.g. getting sniped by some camper in the middle of nowhere

* The way everyone try to sound holier than the pope about Banditry\KoSer, make me thing of Catholic priest in the little boys incident, and I doubt that even the zealots haven't dabbled in it when it suited them.

Bottom line PvP is still the quickest way to stock up on equipment\supplies, which equals to a lot of valuable RL time and many re-spawns will find the risk\reward to be worth it, or find an excuse to doso e.g. by convincing themselves that their opponent is a bandit.

* Regardless your opinion on the matter, many will find PvP more challenging than PvE and or better fitting to their playing style\goals.

You mentioned making zombies harder, but I have yet to see a PvP game, in which PvE aspects were more challenging, without dabbling into unrealistic action-y frosting. The only way you can manage it, is by turning this game into an anal survival sim, which will rapidly shrink its user-base, upsetting most who purchased it. Like it or not, Hardcore isn't that popular, after mastering the elements most people look for vehicles, base building and other fun mods to break the routine.

Also not everyone might find other aspects of the "Zombie" apocalypse as enjoyable as PvP (or might not the time/inclination for it). Just as there are those who enjoy roleplaying as medics, there are those who might want to try playing as Bandits. Obviously for Bandits KoS is the smart things todo i.e. "if you want to shoot, shoot don't talk!"

* Due to player "exhaustion", in general there will be more "noob"s than "vanguards", and the inexperienced players are more likely to resort to Banditry and KoS.

New players tend to be unfamiliar with game mechanics and less certain in their abilities. Hence they are more paranoid and easily excited/aggravated, or prone to testing\trying new\silly things. Like everyone else who

Anyway, IMO the solution for this isn't technical, its social. Cooperation, its benefits and necessity for long term survival should be impressed in the manual\tutorial (I assume there will be short one, since its a stand alone now)

[Calvin Candie 189]

I like the idea of getting better at some statistics over time. It really would make you avoid firefights.

It would make your character more then the gear it has.

[grindstone50k 208]

Holy thread resurrection.