We NEED some way to identify heros and bandits.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Holy fucking hell, did you really not understand that that i was addressing the [valid] concern that identification would remove the fear involved in encountering people?

 

No, I guess I was just confused because you said you were addressing the fear of the unknown, and then you turned around and just talked about the fear of being shot. Those are two completely different things. Nobody ever claimed that the armband would remove the fear of being shot or the fear of dying. The complaint is that it removes the fear of not knowing what sort of person someone is.

 

The "fear" of a bad guy shooting you isn't really that scary. You know they're going to try to shoot you. That's what bad guys do. That's why they're called bad guys. Do you get "scared" playing Call of Duty when you're near the other team? No. You don't. Because you know what they are going to do. There's no mystery at all.

 

The heightened emotion that comes from the uncertainty which exists when you don't know how someone is going to react to your presence is a much more palpable fear than just seeing a bad guy and hoping he doesn't pop you a good one.

 

That's what we don't want to lose, and that's what the armband system completely destroys.

 

 

I know, now we'll hunt them down and kill them too, isn't it great! 

 

Yes. It's great that you can already do that without this stupid system.

 

 

All with no risk of killing those people playing the game realistically and not killing people every other second.

 

And why should you have that? That's the whole reason the decision of whether or not to kill someone is an emotionally interesting one. Are you making the right choice? Are you maybe killing a good guy? Wouldn't you feel guilty if you did? That makes you hesitate. Maybe you should wait and try to talk to him instead. What if he's friendly? Maybe he'll be a new companion. Maybe you should try to reach out...

 

Or, maybe not? Maybe you're too scared and you want to shoot regardless because the risk of you dying is not worth the possibility that he might be a friend. Are you comfortable with that choice? Can you live with yourself if that's how you play? What does it make you feel?

 

This is the entire human drama that makes DayZ so great. Not knowing makes you unsure, and uncertainty makes you question your decisions and that makes for drama.

 

With an armband, all of this drama and uncertainty and decision making and questioning of motives goes away and the game becomes "Look! Bad guys! Let's get 'em boys!" Which is why for most of us this idea is a great big "Eww, no thanks." It waters the game down to exactly the sort of thing you claim it should not be - a deathmatch of one team vs. another.

 

 

I don't want to kill players like myself who let player after player pass him without shooting them. I REALLY, REALLY DON'T...

 

 

If you "REALLY, REALLY" didn't want to kill good people, then you wouldn't act like it's such a ridiculous burden to watch people and figure out if they're good or not. If it's so fucking important to you, then invest a few minutes into figuring out if your killing a good guy or not. If you're not willing to spend the time, then maybe you don't care as much as you say you do? You want the game designers to come and do all your work for you so you know you're making the right decision with zero actual effort on your own part apart from pulling the trigger.

 

Basically, your argument is that you "REALLY, REALLY" want to be a good guy, but you're just too fucking lazy to actually do it.

 

 

The point is that its just not realistic

 

Right. But magically deciding what people must or must not wear based on their actions is totally realistic, right? Seriously, dude? You're playing the realism card while defending a system of magical wizard-enforced clothing options?

 

 

I say lets embrace the KOS, but lets make it actually make sense.

 

And of course by "make sense" you mean make it possible for you to more easily avoid it by making people who do it look different. Which... makes sense. And "improves immersion." For some fucking reason. Because you said so?

 

If you want to embrace KoS, then do it. Quit trying to call in the clothing wizards.

Edited February 3, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[libertine 351]

so? if you're not prepared to die an undeserved death in DayZ, just stop playing, but, please stop crying about it. suck it up. Do better next time, learn something from the experience and move on..

Were discussing it, in a mf'ing FORUM, I didn't ask you to read it. Dieing undeserved deaths isn't nearly the only issue were discussing here and "doing better" for my personal play style means more boredom. I don't KOS and I don't want to chat it up and decide whether or not to execute them. Were talking about the gameplay that we would like to see. Perfectly legitimate conversation.

[CS14 133]

if they're shooting at you, they're probably hostile..

 

This.  :beans:

 

 

 

It's fine the way it is, IMO. You shouldn't have to depend on a game to tell you if someone is friendly or not, especially with how flawed it was in the mod to begin with. Shooting back at a survivor who shot you first still affected your humanity in a negative way, which led to many people appearing to be bandits when that wasn't the case. The best way to know if someone is friendly or not is to simply not trust anybody you are not playing with. Problem solved.

 

Now that doesn't necessarily mean kill the person because you don't trust them (I simply do, other people may not), you could always just be very cautious when around them and order them to drop whatever they have, back away, etc. 

 

Another thing about the whole "hero" and "bandit status"... During the time I spent playing the mod and browsing these forums I laughed at how many people would sit there and bitch about how bandits and other players would kill them on sight, then they would turn around and say how they shoot people with the bandit skin on sight. Bitch about being killed on sight, then go and do it to others (who may not have even actually been bandits, due to the flawed system). Logic not even once.

Edited February 3, 2014 by CS14

[Fear The Amish 40]

so samething can happen like what happened in the MOD were people just farmed for the Hero skin and then used that player as bait....

[irl-calibre 744]

Were discussing it, in a mf'ing FORUM, I didn't ask you to read it. Dieing undeserved deaths isn't nearly the only issue were discussing here and "doing better" for my personal play style means more boredom. I don't KOS and I don't want to chat it up and decide whether or not to execute them. Were talking about the gameplay that we would like to see. Perfectly legitimate conversation.

 

Thane, dying underservedly is exactly what is being "discussed" here, people want certainty in a game that offers none, and is not going to happen with armbands.  people want to change the game into V's that every other FPS on the planet is, go and play them instead it suits your comfort zone better.. 

[qliqqlaq 17]

adding 10 different colors to the high-end clothes (TTsKO and all this stuff) would help you to identify the heroes.

[pants! 83]

adding 10 different colors to the high-end clothes (TTsKO and all this stuff) would help you to identify the heroes.

 

Joseph and his technicolor TTsKO?

[skyline-gtr 130]

As the term "Hero" has not been defined in this thread yet, I would like to offer wikipedias interpretation:

 

"A hero (masculine) or heroine (feminine) (Ancient Greek: ἥρως, hḗrōs) refers to characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice—that is, heroism—for some greater good of all humanity."

 

 

and thus, whoever kills the OP in game shall recieve Over 9000 points and have a perma hero arm band for his or her own personal use.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Skyline-GTR

[qliqqlaq 17]

Joseph and his technicolor TTsKO?

 

Technicolor?

Bro, I was talking about stuff like this:

 

[Estevacio 62]

Altough i do like the idea of armbands or other distinctive items , creating this kind of "stamp" isn't very satisfying and easily exploitable, but you could tear colored t shirts that besides being able to use it as bandages, could also be put on the arms to easily identify other teammates, creating an accessory to identify rather than implementing them previously on the chars!!

Just my beans

[cels 43]

Most I saw was something from about a mid last year stating they want something alot more subtle as the skins were not liked.

couple quotes from mid last year that somewhat relate to the topic.

--"I think we need to do something quite different. Like blood appears on your hands when you're looting a body that's recently dead, that your face grimaces, things like that. I think we need to work with the community and come up with something."

--"we'll be gathering a lot of data while people are playing, in the database, and then use that and then look at it. I think humanity needs to be a lot more subtle than it is now. And hopefully also with the introduction of this new antagonist--which is the environment, effectively, and your health--I think there's going to be a lot more reasons for people to interact. Not necessarily positively interact! But certainly neutrally."

So seemingly theres plans for something(nothing easy to identify), but this is alpha so you wont see it for awhile.

Edited February 3, 2014 by cels

[jasonreynalds2 1]

I know a way! In order to identify a hero they just dont shoot you. In order to identify a bandit wait untill you get shot!

[blueleader 18]

whats to stop a bad guy from wearing a good guys arm band and mopping up ?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Mods, please close this thread.  99.9% have already disagreed with OP, except Thane.  All the OP has done is insult everyone who disagrees with him and this topic is going nowhere.

[TwinSpire 49]

I was in a group the other week and they were trying to use a word...  That night it was "pizza"

 

If you ran into someone, you would yell "pizza" and then you would know friendly...  There is your solution.. done no dev time needed.

 

You could even go for advanced... yell "pizza" and respond "pepperoni"

 

If you are a bandit... yell "freeze give me your shit"

Edited February 3, 2014 by TwinSpire

[libertine 351]

No, I guess I was just confused because you said you were addressing the fear of the unknown, and then you turned around and just talked about the fear of being shot. Those are two completely different things. Nobody ever claimed that the armband would remove the fear of being shot or the fear of dying. The complaint is that it removes the fear of not knowing what sort of person someone is.

 

The "fear" of a bad guy shooting you isn't really that scary. You know they're going to try to shoot you. That's what bad guys do. That's why they're called bad guys. Do you get "scared" playing Call of Duty when you're near the other team? No. You don't. Because you know what they are going to do. There's no mystery at all.

 

The heightened emotion that comes from the uncertainty which exists when you don't know how someone is going to react to your presence is a much more palpable fear than just seeing a bad guy and hoping he doesn't pop you a good one.

 

That's what we don't want to lose, and that's what the armband system completely destroys.

Invalid: The Origins DayZ mod already proved that you can have bandit identification and still be killed by survivors (and occasionally heroes) just as often as bandits. You still must be just as careful around unknowns. This just gives us some clear targets.

Yes. It's great that you can already do that without this stupid system.

 The chances to make 100% positive bandit/murderer ID's is far too low to make the game interesting. Maybe its something about the way i play, perhaps too carefully, limiting my iterations, but playing as if you were there, as if you truly cared about living is the way i enjoy my games the most. A player with a sniper rifle over Cherno makes them a bandit for many people and they get their fill of combat killing that bandit and others kill anyone with a gun. I don't, because that could be me, looking for bandits. Furthermore, it takes a murderer and a victim seeing each other to actually have a chance of a murder going down, just for that to happen is painfully infrequent. I could go to Electro or the coast to find more players, but the activity in those places is horribly unrealistic to this context and is extremely unimmersive to me. I watched two guys at Balota from the apartments for at least 20 minutes. They at different ends of it, totally apart and i waited to see what they would do when i saw each other. I was hoping to witness a murder or something bad happen(another weird, unrealistic compulsion this game creates) and when the two finally encountered each other it happened behind something, as it does most of the time so i couldn't really be sure if the surviving guy wasn't just defending himself. Annoying.

 

That's the whole reason the decision of whether or not to kill someone is an emotionally interesting one.

I could be misunderstanding you, but for me its not interesting in the slightest. The typical reason for killing people I see youtube videos is simply for fun, or if they don't make them laugh, etc. That style of play is perfectly valid, but it conflicts in some ways greatly with other play styles. If i hear one more time that carrying a gun in a zombie apocolypse makes somebody a bad guy i fear that one day i may roll my eyes so far back into my head they get stuck.

 

It waters the game down to exactly the sort of thing you claim it should not be - a deathmatch of one team vs. another.

No, i think there needs to be a very vague set of teams, with the bandits being loosely on the same side, part of some loose group and the rest being loosely on another side.

 

 

 

If you "REALLY, REALLY" didn't want to kill good people, then you wouldn't act like it's such a ridiculous burden to watch people and figure out if they're good or not. If it's so fucking important to you, then invest a few minutes into figuring out if your killing a good guy or not.

 

If you're not willing to spend the time, then maybe you don't care as much as you say you do? You want the game designers to come and do all your work for you so you know you're making the right decision with zero actual effort on your own part apart from pulling the trigger.

 

Basically, your argument is that you "REALLY, REALLY" want to be a good guy, but you're just too fucking lazy to actually do it.

 

You must be a bandit man, because you would know you spend hours and days watching people before making a 100% positive ID. Either that or you having a seriously loose [virtual] moral code, like non-existent. Where did you get the idea that i don't take the time? It basically all i fucking do. I'll say it one more time just in case. THIS IS BASICALLY ALL I DO.

 

If you see two guys enter a building and shot ring out and only one guy leaves, do you just kill the guy? I don't, ever... It could have been self-defense.

 

 Right. But magically deciding what people must or must not wear based on their actions is totally realistic, right? Seriously, dude? You're playing the realism card while defending a system of magical wizard-enforced clothing options?

 

 Fuck...me... I've only stated this like 40 times now, but if you built the armband into some sort of story, it would fit perfectly. The armband could be said to be worn by survivors who were promised by the remaining military/gov structure, housing and food and protection "when it was all over" if they would help the military patrol the lands and cleanse it of the remaining survivors which they believed was the only way to save humanity, thereby not being evil, but doing what they believed was right. This alleviates the negative connotation of being a bandit as well. The armband is said to prevent the mercenaries and military from targeting each other. The armband could have a cross on it to draw people in as a little touch of creepiness. The survivors remain anonymous until they start killing people and the "heroes" become a resistance, knowledgeable of the existence of the mercenaries and kill them. THIS would explain the violence we see in a realistic way, allow for the moral types to get in some action and hopefully slightly push ease of attaining more realistic PvE types of play to where many people want it due to ever so slightly distinguishable sides. 

 

[libertine 351]

so samething can happen like what happened in the MOD were people just farmed for the Hero skin and then used that player as bait....

Yep, we've established that possibility as a good thing, because not everyone will do it. There were plenty of bandits to go around in the mod.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Thane

[Ukrainetz 0]

100% something similar to this is a MUST

[irl-calibre 744]

you still don't get it, the game cannot be the arbiter on what was a "good" death and what was "Bad" it's unfeasible as was found out with the humanity system in the mod . Geddit? never going to happen, sometimes you will kill someone who doesn't deserve to die, shit happens. there a two kinds of death but only one is deserved, now let it go m8.. 

Edited February 3, 2014 by Calibre

[HazZarD87 166]

crappy idea. Nuff said

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

 

The chances to make 100% positive bandit/murderer ID's is far too low to make the game interesting. Maybe its something about the way i play, perhaps too carefully, 

 

You can Google "DayZ bandit kill" and spend hours on Youtube watching people make 100% positive ID's and get successful kills. Over and over again. It doesn't take them hours. They see a bandit kill a new spawn or one of their friends, and they move in for a kill. 

 

The fact that you don't find this interesting just further serves to prove my point. You don't actually care that much. If it takes a few minutes of observation to decide if what you're doing is the right thing, you would rather not play at all. That's fine. You don't have to play. But there's no reason for the designers to dumb the game down because you're too lazy to observe a player for a few minutes to decide if they're good or bad.

 

 

Maybe its something about the way i play, perhaps too carefully

 

Holy shit you're shoveling it on thick. "Too carefully?" If you were playing carefully, you would have absolutely zero problem positively ID'ing bandits. Watch carefully from a distance until a player takes aggressive action against someone. It usually doesn't take long. Bandits are active and almost always looking for their next victim. If you're really playing "carefully" then shut up and watch.

 

 

A player with a sniper rifle over Cherno makes them a bandit for many people and they get their fill of combat killing that bandit and others kill anyone with a gun. I don't, because that could be me, looking for bandits.

 

So watch and see who he shoots? Or, just move on. If you play "too carefully," you probably shouldn't be anywhere near Cherno in the first place, let alone sniffing around sniper hills.

 

 

Furthermore, it takes a murderer and a victim seeing each other to actually have a chance of a murder going down, just for that to happen is painfully infrequent.

 

You hunt bandits around Cherno and you're telling me murders are "painfully infrequent?" Are we really being serious right now?

I could go to Electro or the coast to find more players, but the activity in those places is horribly unrealistic to this context and is extremely unimmersive to me.

 

So firefights in Elektro are "unimmersive" but magical sky wizards forcing people to wear (or not wear) certain clothes based on some goofy-ass contrived story you made up doesn't break your immersion at all? Totally immerses you in a realistic world when you can look at someone from 1km away and tell what kind of person they are by the color of armband they're wearing?

 

 

when the two finally encountered each other it happened behind something, as it does most of the time so i couldn't really be sure if the surviving guy wasn't just defending himself. Annoying.

 

So suck less at observing. Holy fuck. You let them get out of your sight. Your fault. Do better next time.

 

 

You must be a bandit man,

 

Maybe I am. Maybe not. You won't know until we meet each other because I don't have to adhere to some stupid fucking dress code.

 

 

Where did you get the idea that i don't take the time?

 

You literally just got done telling me it makes the game "uninteresting" for you and it takes too long. Maybe you take the time now, but you're arguing for a change so you don't have to anymore. So that's where I got the idea. From you and the stuff you say.

 

If you were willing to take the time, you wouldn't need the fucking armband.

 

 

Fuck...me... I've only stated this like 40 times now, but if you built the armband into some sort of story, it would fit perfectly.

 

No, it fucking doesn't fit at all because in your stupid "story" nothing would stop me from cold ass murdering you and taking the arm band and putting it on. Which you say I'm "not allowed to do" for some sutpid magical ass reason.

[skyline-gtr 130]

Zed that was very eloquent.

+1

[ordeal 8]

Zeds destroying this kid! Only reason i'm still following this thread.

 

Think its safe to say that the OPs idea was awful and 99% agree.

[ponymony 9]

This is suppose to be a realistic game, now special skins that distinguish between bandits and heroes is the complete opposite. This is no longer the dayz mod, forget about hero/bandit skins.

[morrow 19]

Get his ass Zed! Damn I love this wake up to go to work with some coffee and poke around and I get this! Made my day bud!