Third person view removal from SA discussion

[The_Man 393]

I don't see that big an advantage here. But let's keep that zoom discussion to somewhere else. It has nothing to do with 3PP enabled or not other than some guys utilizing it as a shield against sensibility.

 

My bad. I just use it as an counter argument because you'll find that some people that think 3rd person creates a huge advantage over players while the zoom doesn't. They are nitpicking and only want what they are comfortable with in the game. If we are truly going to balance the game in terms of what perspectives are fair in this game then zoom has a huge role too. It isn't directly relevant but it is absolutely a perspective issue in this game. I am not that far off topic. 

[Gerandar 212]

I don't see that big an advantage here. But let's keep that zoom discussion to somewhere else. It has nothing to do with 3PP enabled or not other than some guys utilizing it as a shield against sensibility.

 

Sensibility would be to accept the fact that the majority of the player base enjoys 3rd person and to stop beating this dead horse and change the subject to more constructive ways to improve how the camera interacts with the enviroment in 3rd person. but if trying to force your definition of fun down other peoples throats is what you want to do keep trying.

[tommes 331]

 how do you beat third person WITH third person? Since it's apparent that it's a fair and level playing field with it enabled.

It is really tiresome to explain that over and over again...but I'm actually a nice guy when I'm not pissed off by others ignorance...so I will do it one more time.

 

Imagine some guy lying behind a rock, using 3PP to scope the area. Some other guy is in the open field in front of said rock. One guy is virtually invisible to the other while the latter has full awareness of the surroundings. The guy behind the rock can pick the best moment, pre-aim and whatnot while the guy in open field has what to level this? Nothing.

Now imagine 3PP disabled. The guy behind the rock can't se shit without exposing himself at least a little. He would still have advantage of cover but the guy in open field has the chance of hitting him and therefore the power to supress him, move around, get closer, while the guy behind the rock doesn't see much. That makes an interesting situation while 3PP enabled makes a slaughter while beeing far far off reality.

[tommes 331]

My bad. I just use it as an counter argument because you'll find that some people that think 3rd person creates a huge advantage over players while the zoom doesn't. They are nitpicking and only want what they are comfortable with in the game. If we are truly going to balance the game in terms of what perspectives are fair in this game then zoom has a huge role too. It isn't directly relevant but it is absolutely a perspective issue in this game. I am not that far off topic. 

No one ever talked about zoom...until one side ran out of sensible arguments. But hey, let's remove this thingy too! If that makes you guys accept the removal of 3PP...but I guess none of the 3PP crowd actually wants that. It's a phony argument. Just let it go. There's no real threat to 3PP. Rocket won't remove it. So keep cool.

[The_Man 393]

No one ever talked about zoom...until one side ran out of sensible arguments. But hey, let's remove this thingy too! If that makes you guys accept the removal of 3PP...but I guess none of the 3PP crowd actually wants that. It's a phony argument. Just let it go. There's no real threat to 3PP. Rocket won't remove it. So keep cool.

 

Removing something from the game as integral as 3PP or Zoom is a bad idea in general. They know this. Rocket said it himself that they want to fix it rather than remove it :) 

[gibonez 3633]

Removing something from the game as integral as 3PP or Zoom is a bad idea in general. They know this. Rocket said it himself that they want to fix it rather than remove it :)

 

The zoom is there because it imitates eye resolution and unfortunately computer monitors and video cards cannot yet render anything close to what we can actually see.

 

Third person view is there to let people see over walls and peek around cover it can be removed and people will miss it for a week or so then everyone will continue to play it.

[deevote 21]

It is really tiresome to explain that over and over again...but I'm actually a nice guy when I'm not pissed off by others ignorance...so I will do it one more time.

 

Imagine some guy lying behind a rock, using 3PP to scope the area. Some other guy is in the open field in front of said rock. One guy is virtually invisible to the other while the latter has full awareness of the surroundings. The guy behind the rock can pick the best moment, pre-aim and whatnot while the guy in open field has what to level this? Nothing.

Now imagine 3PP disabled. The guy behind the rock can't se shit without exposing himself at least a little. He would still have advantage of cover but the guy in open field has the chance of hitting him and therefore the power to supress him, move around, get closer, while the guy behind the rock doesn't see much. That makes an interesting situation while 3PP enabled makes a slaughter while beeing far far off reality.

 

Well then you can't beat third person with third person is what I'm getting at. That question was directed towards someone that disagrees with me and you lol..

 

A thought for those that believe third person is a level playing field:

Player 1 uses third person

Player 2 uses third person

 

Player 1 is around a corner

Player 2 is in an open field

 

Player 1 sees player 2 and pokes out to shoot, missing shot, moves around bulding and third person peeks around next corner (rinse,repeat)

Player 2 cannot see player 1 no matter what angle he puts the camera and is forced to guess where he will pop out next while being exposed visually the whole time

 

YOU CAN'T BEAT third with third. This is not the stance from someone that just wants PVP. it's just the nature of DayZ.

[Ken Bean 174]

And where is your argument? Feature is in the game -> we want to get it out of there.

Fair is the wrong word. It's about combat not beeing totally ridiculous and against common sense any more. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. And your clinging to a feature, meant to relieve the stress of beginners and other low skilled players, is purely pathetic.

How would you feel if someone constantly asks you, where your argument is? As you are following this discussion one may guess that you must have read hundrets.

But apparently you overlooked every single one. I know, this isn't the case.

Do you want us to annoy the hell out of that forums by constantly asking "Where is your Argument?"?

Sneaky tactis but easy to get aware of.

As to you argument, 3rd person would be easy mode, I just say: why do you care? Are you not supposed to play on 1st person mercenary server?

If you consider yourself an elitist, then please play on an elitist server or stopp caling yourself elitist. I also dont claim to be superpro while setting my difficult setting in games on low.

Why are you not doing what you preach?

Edited January 3, 2014 by Ken Bean

[tommes 331]

How would you feel if someone constantly asks you, where your argument is? As you are following this discussion one may guess that you must have read hundrets.

But apparently you overlooked every single one. I know, this isn't the case.

I've read them all. They're moot. Now stop posting! Please!

[The_Man 393]

The zoom is there because it imitates eye resolution and unfortunately computer monitors and video cards cannot yet render anything close to what we can actually see.

 

Third person view is there to let people see over walls and peek around cover it can be removed and people will miss it for a week or so then everyone will continue to play it.

 

Oh, your eyes can zoom in and out like that? I wasn't aware that your eyes could change the size of a target from being a little dot to 1cm tall. Poor reason you gave. Does not change the fact that your character in game can change how their eye decides to view the world around them lmao. 

 

Yes, third person is faulty like that. Even if you couldn't fire your gun in third person it still would not fix the problem. Third person won't be removed simply because people enjoy seeing their character and prefer to see the world in that perspective. The developers will alter third person in a way that will prevent people seeing through walls and peeking around corners. You will be happy and I will be happy. The developer is not stupid to force part of the community to play like the rest of the community. This is how smart people approach problems. They fix them. They don't throw something integral to the engine away. 

[tommes 331]

Removing something from the game as integral as 3PP or Zoom is a bad idea in general. They know this. Rocket said it himself that they want to fix it rather than remove it :)

Neither 3PP or zoom are integral.

 

We have established 3PP will not be removed completely. You don't have to defend it.

[tommes 331]

Get off the zoom, guys! It's off topic here.

It is definitely by far not as game breaking as 3PP though. 

[The_Man 393]

Neither 3PP or zoom are integral.

 

We have established 3PP will not be removed completely. You don't have to defend it.

 

If you have a problem with what I post then please report me to a moderator. 

 

3PP is integral. It is a fundamental part that designers implemented back in 2000 for Operation Flashpoint. They continued to offer it in ARMA, ARMA II and ARMA III. Why? The developers want you to experience the worlds they create by allowing both first and third person modes. Yes, by all definitions, it is integral. Rocket's choice to keep it in the game supports what I just said. 

 

[Ken Bean 174]

I've read them all. They're moot. Now stop posting! Please!

I may consider that, if you tell me the greatest secret of them all: Why don't you just consequently play on 1st person locked server if you like it so much? I don't recall that you already answered the question.

Thy are there, if you folks stay there, they stay full. Would that be too easy?

Edited January 3, 2014 by Ken Bean

[Zombie Jesus 723]

 

And once more for the ones late to the party:

 

Rocket confirmed that there's an issue with 3PP back in September and he promised to do something about it namely fixing 3PP. He even stated that they were already looking into how they actually do it.

 

I'm aware of the fact that I'm not a developer and have no power over the game. So what? I don't matter here. If you have a problem with what I'm saying, attack that! You can't hit me with anything else. I'm like a ghost. You can't hurt me inside the matrix.

 

Yes I am well aware of that quote from Rocket and I would be fine with them tweaking 3PP to remove certain exploits (things like corner camping will always happen with 3PP though). I even mentioned that I would love to see a force to first person any time a player goes prone to get rid of 3PP camping on roofs and hills. The problem I have with you is your insufferable tone over the many pages of this topic and previous topics. Nobody gives a shit that you think the community will be split because that is a stupid argument on face value. I could care less that certain people play on servers with different settings, I can not even think of a legitimate argument against that being an option. 

 

Some examples of your tone. 

 

From all TPV lovers argueing here, you are by far the most retarded.

 

Yeah...because there are not enough people buying 1st person only shooter games...dream on, dude!

 

And once again: The fucking devs can fucking make you fucking play the fucking game the fuck they want!

 

I see you trolling homey, you don't need to lie to kick it. 

 

Also I always love someone calling someone retarded while misspelling a word, classic. 

Edited January 3, 2014 by Zombie Jesus

[dallas 5195]

I feel we're making headroom here, if we keep up this level of progress, at page 119, we're be exactly where we were at page 1, which continued right where the last hundred page thread ended, which made the same astounding progress. To sum is all up for the newcomers:

 

FPP: Third person is a cheat.

TPP: Then play on first person servers.

FPP: Don't tell me what to do!

TPP: Don't tell me what to do!

Edited January 3, 2014 by Dallas

[djporternz 644]

Just a couple of observations I'd like to make...

 

All of the arguments against 3PP are directly related to the equality (I won't say fairness) of the participants in PvP situations. As such, they may have had merit at the beginning of the Alpha, but now we have 1PP only servers, the points made are virtually all redundant. Yes the inequality can still exist on a 3PP enabled server, but if you're PvPing on one of those now, then what did you expect? Simple solution: PvP on 1PP servers only! No more problems!

 

A bigger threat to PvP equality are the FoV & Gamma/Brightness adjustments available to players. These also allow a player willing to fudge these an enormous advantage over someone who isn't willing to do so. There isn't any server settings available to solve these issues, yet.

 

Now I'll admit I don't do a lot of PvP (mainly because I suck at it!) and prefer a more PvE Solo/Co-op Survival style of play. 3PP may help here at giving me an advantage over the Zs, at present, but it's not like the Zs in their current implementation are that much of a threat! Now I could choose to play in 1PP, and quite often do, but the key word here is 'choose'. After all, everyone else playing on the 3PP server has the same ability to choose as I do, hence a level playing field by definition.

 

One last point: I like being able to go into 3PP for the simple fact that there is no other way except in a very abstract sense to be aware of body position and dispostion, etc., of gear and equipment. You get some audion cues if you have some particular piece of equipment, but for the most part you don't. You can't feel the weight of that mountain pack you've loaded up with crap. You can't feel the chest rig you're wearing. You cant feel the weight and heft of that axe digging into you're right sholder. In 1PP after long periods of time, it is too easy to become a disembodied point of consciousness floating across the landscape and can be hard to keep visualised what your character is actually looking like. Yes you have the inventory screen, and that helps, but after running across the map in 1PP and having to take action on encountering another player, you can forget that you're wearing a giant orange 'here I am' patch on your backpack. Going prone isn't going to cut it.

 

One last last point: It took a long time to collect all this gear and for the short time that I'm going to be allowed to keep it, I damn sure want to be able to see it for as long as possible. :)

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Dallas, Ken..

Why do you assume that the first person advocates don't play on first person only servers? Did I miss some posts by people saying they still play on third person? I know it was discussed why nobody played on them in the mod, but since they're populated in standalone, I'm sure everyone who wants first person is currently playing on them.

[tommes 331]

I see you trolling homey, you don't need to lie to kick it. 

 

Also I always love someone calling someone retarded while misspelling a word, classic. 

 

My tone has it's source in really stupid arguments made over and over again by certain people. I figure said people don't have proper higher brain functions and are therefore retarded or they are trolling. 

 

Ken Bean might be a special case here because he is probably both.

 

And for the misspelling you found...congrats! You've found one in the vast spaces of an internet message board. A new hero is born! 

I just hope you didn't use zoom to find it. That is considered cheating by some people here...

[d4mpf3r 3]

Its like 10 years ago in counter strike dont use the awp or awm.........
Guys really it's a game option and basta we have now the option to set it on the game server not good enough? or u all just think only your opinion is right?
Maybe an admin should close this topic it's a nonsense to talk about it.

[Solipsist 14]

To the 50+ people who said "blah blah so that's a moot point":

 

The word "moot" actually means "up for debate". You're literally saying the opposite of what you mean by using that word ignorantly, lol.

[Ken Bean 174]

Dallas, Ken..

Why do you assume that the first person advocates don't play on first person only servers? Did I miss some posts by people saying they still play on third person? I know it was discussed why nobody played on them in the mod, but since they're populated in standalone, I'm sure everyone who wants first person is currently playing on them.

Because it used to be like this in the mod. Dozen topics which say 1st person is the shiz, dozen polls which said more than a half want to play on first person only, massive complaining about 3rd person...

And whenever I joined a 1st person server, I was alone. There were a few, but empty. I really hope this is not going to happen to the SA yet again.

No Sir. I literally just forced myself to play in first person. I still had the option to switch the third.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if you 1st person advocates are not playing on that 1st person servers, who else?

Being brute to yourself wont help ya much.

Ken Bean might be a special case here because he is probably both.

Promise to stopp that before we fall in love. Edited January 4, 2014 by Ken Bean

[ComplexMinded 0]

My goodness.  This argument sounds like "Cigarette smoke is awful and it's bad and it ruins the experience for everyone".  Which is why some cities are smoke free in the public.  They listened to your opinion.  You now have the option to create your own environment but that isn't good enough!?  It's like the non-smokers complaining that since the creation of smoke-free environments anymore, the night-life has suffered (factual statement in my city).  So the resolution is ban smoking?

 

People just need something to complain about.

Edited January 4, 2014 by ComplexMinded

[serenityrick 218]

Oh, your eyes can zoom in and out like that? I wasn't aware that your eyes could change the size of a target from being a little dot to 1cm tall. Poor reason you gave. Does not change the fact that your character in game can change how their eye decides to view the world around them lmao. 

 

Yes, third person is faulty like that. Even if you couldn't fire your gun in third person it still would not fix the problem. Third person won't be removed simply because people enjoy seeing their character and prefer to see the world in that perspective. The developers will alter third person in a way that will prevent people seeing through walls and peeking around corners. You will be happy and I will be happy. The developer is not stupid to force part of the community to play like the rest of the community. This is how smart people approach problems. They fix them. They don't throw something integral to the engine away. 

 

I don't think anyone who supports first person only would be defending the zoom to the extent that third person players defend their floating ghost cam do.

 

Personally I can take or leave that zoom. It's not a big deal either way. Even if you see it as a cheap mechanism, it still abides by the rule of "If I can see you, you can see me".

Edited January 4, 2014 by serenityrick

[Mallow88 110]

I feel we're making headroom here, if we keep up this level of progress, at page 119, we're be exactly where we were at page 1, which continued right where the last hundred page thread ended, which made the same astounding progress. To sum is all up for the newcomers:

 

FPP: Third person is a cheat.

TPP: Then play on first person servers.

FPP: Don't tell me what to do!

TPP: Don't tell me what to do!